Want to transfer to an IM program in NYC or the NE... Should I reapply for the match or just applying independently for PGY2 positions?

[studentdocmember]

Hi all, currently a PGY1 IM resident at a program I am happy at but I really dislike being away from home. One of my parents are sick and I really feel being away from home has taken a toll on me. I am performing well in residency and think the people are great here, but I am trying to get to a closer program near home. What suggestions do you all have? Could I apply to an advanced PGY2 IM position near NYC through the match or could I apply to PGY2 IM programs in NYC or nearby outside the match?

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[rokshana]

Hi all, currently a PGY1 IM resident at a program I am happy at but I really dislike being away from home. One of my parents are sick and I really feel being away from home has taken a toll on me. I am performing well in residency and think the people are great here, but I am trying to get to a closer program near home. What suggestions do you all have? Could I apply to an advanced PGY2 IM position near NYC through the match or could I apply to PGY2 IM programs in NYC or nearby outside the match?

Why did you rank a place that geographically not suitable?
You will need to give more details…US grad? Competitive for IM?
you risk not having a spot for next year if you decide to reapply and you will prolly need to do pgy 1 over if you go through the match…not a lot of pgy 2 spots out there.

you can talk to your pd to see if s/he can help find an opening somewhere closer to family…if your parent’s health has declined since you matched, they may be more amenable to trying to find you a place…but they will want to fill your open spot as well.

 

[studentdocmember]

Why did you rank a place that geographically not suitable?
You will need to give more details…US grad? Competitive for IM?
you risk not having a spot for next year if you decide to reapply and you will prolly need to do pgy 1 over if you go through the match…not a lot of pgy 2 spots out there.

you can talk to your pd to see if s/he can help find an opening somewhere closer to family…if your parent’s health has declined since you matched, they may be more amenable to trying to find you a place…but they will want to fill your open spot as well.

I didn't rank this program, I SOAPED into it. I am pretty sure I could've matched in NYC if I went for IM from the gate... but I didn't, I was going for Psych. I was forced to do this program.

 

[IMGASMD]

I didn't rank this program, I SOAPED into it. I am pretty sure I could've matched in NYC if I went for IM from the gate... but I didn't, I was going for Psych. I was forced to do this program.

1. No one “forced” you to do anything. Words we use matter.
2. There are some very “malignant” and FMG heavy programs in the city. At least when I was there a few years ago. If you’re categorical and in good standing, you maybe able to switch into a program that’s closer to NYC. If you know someone there, always a plus.
3. If you don’t want to do IM, you may not want to do IM especially around NYC. Look at Lincoln.

Good luck.

 

[rokshana]

I didn't rank this program, I SOAPED into it. I am pretty sure I could've matched in NYC if I went for IM from the gate... but I didn't, I was going for Psych. I was forced to do this program.

sooo.....

While IM varies, psych is generally considered to be less competitive than IM...and if you couldn't match into a psych program, why do you think you can match into an IM program? Are you a USMD or an IMG or DO? What are your step scores?

If you are a USMD, with decent Step scores, then maybe you could reapply and get something in the NYC area.

the thing is, NYC has some of the best IM programs and some of the worst IM programs...those NYC programs that are in the top are, well, in the top...they are competitive for even the best US seniors...if you were one of those, then maybe...but if you SOAPed for Psych , well, its doubtful you are in that realm of applicant. The programs at the there'd...well they are looking for people to work...they take FMGs, that have been practicing physicians in their respective countries and don't need the education per se... just need to be able to go through the motions on doing residency in the US to practice in the US...these programs are not really interested in education and training residents. You are not necessarily high on their lists.

and as mentioned, no one is forcing you to do this residency...you can chose to continue or choose to leave...or you could see if your program will be willing to help you find another program...but its only a month in...unless the illness with your parent is acute and unforeseen , they may not be all that sympathetic...that is your call.

 

[PugsAndHugs]

psych is generally considered to be less competitive than IM...and if you couldn't match into a psych program, why do you think you can match into an IM program?

I don’t think this is the case anymore. Psych is more competitive than IM now.

 

[elgaeCB]

I don’t think this is the case anymore. Psych is more competitive than IM now.

Psych has been more competitive for IM for a while. That's because IM competitivity is a misnomer. Any USMD with a pulse could get into a community medicine program somewhere. Anyone who wants to do something beyond primary care or hospitalist will likely need to get into a decent academic spot, and those are still more competitive than psych.

 

[rokshana]

I don’t think this is the case anymore. Psych is more competitive than IM now.

don't get your panties in a wad...im not trying to hurt any feelings here
Psych applicants are self selective...not everyone can or wants to do psych...the average step scores for psych aren't that significantly higher than that for IM...and there are simply less spots for psych than IM...psych has become more popular, but its not competitive like term, optho , ortho, or NS, or even GS.

If he didn't match psych, its not a given that he would match IM...again, its not like he is a derm level and the OPs goal is for an IM spot in NYC. He may not be competitive enough for the good programs in NYC, since the tend to be upper tier programs...and those are competitive, period. The other option is a program that may not be interested in teaching and training residents, but just needs a work force.

Its not like he is an optho level candidate looking to do IM.

 

[PugsAndHugs]

don't get your panties in a wad...im not trying to hurt any feelings here
Psych applicants are self selective...not everyone can or wants to do psych...the average step scores for psych aren't that significantly higher than that for IM...and there are simply less spots for psych than IM...psych has become more popular, but its not competitive like term, optho , ortho, or NS, or even GS.

If he didn't match psych, its not a given that he would match IM...again, its not like he is a derm level and the OPs goal is for an IM spot in NYC. He may not be competitive enough for the good programs in NYC, since the tend to be upper tier programs...and those are competitive, period. The other option is a program that may not be interested in teaching and training residents, but just needs a work force.

Its not like he is an optho level candidate looking to do IM.

Not sure why you are getting so defensive. What you said before was inaccurate. Now you are saying that Psych has a higher average step score and less spots than IM… Both of which make Psych more competitive than IM, which contradicts what you originally said.

Bottom line is matching into Psych is much harder than matching to an IM program in NYC.

 

[ecogfive]

Hi all, currently a PGY1 IM resident at a program I am happy at but I really dislike being away from home. One of my parents are sick and I really feel being away from home has taken a toll on me. I am performing well in residency and think the people are great here, but I am trying to get to a closer program near home. What suggestions do you all have? Could I apply to an advanced PGY2 IM position near NYC through the match or could I apply to PGY2 IM programs in NYC or nearby outside the match?

Hey, OP. I'm an IM resident at a university program. We "adopt" residents who need to transfer on occasion. If you are in good standing in your program and you feel like your administration is supportive, you should talk to a mentor or supervisor and let them know that you were wondering about transferring to a program closer to your family because of your parent's illness. They may not be able to help you, but it is a reasonable thing to ask about. Also, programs often talk to other programs and they may have connections you could utilize.

Good luck!

 

[rokshana]

Not sure why you are getting so defensive. What you said before was inaccurate. Now you are saying that Psych has a higher average step score and less spots than IM… Both of which make Psych more competitive than IM, which contradicts what you originally said.

Bottom line is matching into Psych is much harder than matching to an IM program in NYC.

No…I said I don’t think that psych applicants have higher step scores…probably the same of lower…but not interested enough to find out but I’m sure that data is easy enough to look up on the nrmp site.
And I’m not the one quickly pointing out that psych is ever so much more competitive than IM.

 

[rokshana]

Not sure why you are getting so defensive. What you said before was inaccurate. Now you are saying that Psych has a higher average step score and less spots than IM… Both of which make Psych more competitive than IM, which contradicts what you originally said.

Bottom line is matching into Psych is much harder than matching to an IM program in NYC.

If it makes you feel better to think so… you do you…

 

[studentdocmember]

1. No one “forced” you to do anything. Words we use matter.
2. There are some very “malignant” and FMG heavy programs in the city. At least when I was there a few years ago. If you’re categorical and in good standing, you maybe able to switch into a program that’s closer to NYC. If you know someone there, always a plus.
3. If you don’t want to do IM, you may not want to do IM especially around NYC. Look at Lincoln.

Good luck.

Okay my point is that I had no other choice, that is my point. I think most people would've figured that out.

 

[studentdocmember]

Hey, OP. I'm an IM resident at a university program. We "adopt" residents who need to transfer on occasion. If you are in good standing in your program and you feel like your administration is supportive, you should talk to a mentor or supervisor and let them know that you were wondering about transferring to a program closer to your family because of your parent's illness. They may not be able to help you, but it is a reasonable thing to ask about. Also, programs often talk to other programs and they may have connections you could utilize.

Good luck!

Thanks!

 

[studentdocmember]

don't get your panties in a wad...im not trying to hurt any feelings here
Psych applicants are self selective...not everyone can or wants to do psych...the average step scores for psych aren't that significantly higher than that for IM...and there are simply less spots for psych than IM...psych has become more popular, but its not competitive like term, optho , ortho, or NS, or even GS.

If he didn't match psych, its not a given that he would match IM...again, its not like he is a derm level and the OPs goal is for an IM spot in NYC. He may not be competitive enough for the good programs in NYC, since the tend to be upper tier programs...and those are competitive, period. The other option is a program that may not be interested in teaching and training residents, but just needs a work force.

Its not like he is an optho level candidate looking to do IM.

Lets not fight...!

 

[rokshana]

Okay my point is that I had no other choice, that is my point. I think most people would've figured that out.

Well, yes, you had other choices… you could have ranked the IM programs you interveiwed at the bottom of your ROL.. that advice has been given here a lot… a program should be ranked unless you would rather soap for a spot… too late for you, but hopefully others reading will take the advice.
You could have sat out this year and strengthened your application… or figure out what went wrong with your application…did you you get 10 + invites last year? Was it covid? Did you not rank enough places?
You could have done some research this year to strengthen your application.

there are options and you had choices… you chose to soap, and you accepted the place you are at …now you have to decide if you can make things work with your current residency or if you need to reapply… and to move or reapply, you will need the support of your PD… only one month in, it’s going to be hard… family issues that came up suddenly, can be a reason and you may get their support… or maybe not.

you can always talk with your PD to see if you can get some easier rotations that would allow you to travel if that could help… hopefully things resolve with your parent’s health and you can continue your residency for the next 3 years.

 

[studentdocmember]

Well, yes, you had other choices… you could have ranked the IM programs you interveiwed at the bottom of your ROL.. that advice has been given here a lot… a program should be ranked unless you would rather soap for a spot… too late for you, but hopefully others reading will take the advice.
You could have sat out this year and strengthened your application… or figure out what went wrong with your application…did you you get 10 + invites last year? Was it covid? Did you not rank enough places?
You could have done some research this year to strengthen your application.

there are options and you had choices… you chose to soap, and you accepted the place you are at …now you have to decide if you can make things work with your current residency or if you need to reapply… and to move or reapply, you will need the support of your PD… only one month in, it’s going to be hard… family issues that came up suddenly, can be a reason and you may get their support… or maybe not.

you can always talk with your PD to see if you can get some easier rotations that would allow you to travel if that could help… hopefully things resolve with your parent’s health and you can continue your residency for the next 3 years.

I didn't Rank any IM programs, I was going for psych initially. I don't think you understand my situation. I didn't match into Psych and Soaped into an IM program.
I think i'm going to reapply for psych again or look for PGY2 IM positions or just stay in my current program and be a PGY2 IM next year. I just didn't want to sit out a year and I guess that was my choice, accepting I had to be away from home.

 

[IMGASMD]

I didn't Rank any IM programs, I was going for psych initially. I don't think you understand my situation. I didn't match into Psych and Soaped into an IM program.
I think i'm going to reapply for psych again or look for PGY2 IM positions or just stay in my current program and be a PGY2 IM next year. I just didn't want to sit out a year and I guess that was my choice, accepting I had to be away from home.

Were you a strong candidate that didn’t need a backup? Did you go to a med school with its own home program? Maybe psych is getting more competitive,or it’s covid, maybe you had poor recs?

Doesn’t matter. When you decide to soap, you made a conscious decision to go into IM far away from home, rather than taking a year off to strengthen your application. When you presented the scenario with “forced”, it sounds to me like you were not a active participant of the whole process.

Are you in a categorical or prelim position? Are you welling to forgo a “sure” thing vs another heart breaking application cycle?

It depends on your application this cycle right? As @rokshana pointed out, you need to have an honest evaluation of your own application this year. Were you “reach” for psych? Did you not go on enough interviews for lower tier programs? From what I’ve heard here and from newly minted interns, this was a tough cycle. Will it be better/worse next cycle, who knows.

Work hard now, put your best foot forward. Regardless what you are going to do next year, you need your PDs support. They can open doors for you, if they think you are “good”.

Good luck.

 

[ecogfive]

Thanks!

No problem! This is a very personal decision, of course, but unless you are in a malignant program where you are afraid of retaliation, I would definitely talk to a "grown up" before trying to apply again. Most of the residents we've adopted already had connections to our program (ex: went here for med school, was a prelim who decided to return to IM, had a spouse in the program...), but that doesn't mean it's impossible and the risk of asking for help is low.

 

[rokshana]

I didn't Rank any IM programs, I was going for psych initially. I don't think you understand my situation. I didn't match into Psych and Soaped into an IM program.
I think i'm going to reapply for psych again or look for PGY2 IM positions or just stay in my current program and be a PGY2 IM next year. I just didn't want to sit out a year and I guess that was my choice, accepting I had to be away from home.

No..I understand…you applied to both psych and IM… for whatever reason you thought you were competitive enough for psych and decided not to rank your back up… and ended up needing your back up.
You freaked about not matching… totally appropriate and soaped… and accepted the program that extended you an offer.

now, either because you are homesick or the situation with your parent’s health is escalating and you want to go back home…

you still haven’t answered the questions about your competitiveness and how many places you got invites from and how many you ranked.

if you ranked 10-15 places, you should have matched… that is based on pre covid so it could have been very different this last year…if you ranked only say 2-3 psych programs, then it would have been wiser to have ranked the places you interviewed for IM and not have had to depend on soap…where you have very little control.

you are at your most competitive as a 4th year…especially if you are not a USMD so next year, as a graduate, you will be competing with the us seniors…and you are restricting yourself geographically as well.

if you are considering reapplying to psych, you probably should talk to some…a Pd in psych at your program to have them objectively assess your application and see what you need to improve.

 

[studentdocmember]

No..I understand…you applied to both psych and IM… for whatever reason you thought you were competitive enough for psych and decided not to rank your back up… and ended up needing your back up.
You freaked about not matching… totally appropriate and soaped… and accepted the program that extended you an offer.

now, either because you are homesick or the situation with your parent’s health is escalating and you want to go back home…

you still haven’t answered the questions about your competitiveness and how many places you got invites from and how many you ranked.

if you ranked 10-15 places, you should have matched… that is based on pre covid so it could have been very different this last year…if you ranked only say 2-3 psych programs, then it would have been wiser to have ranked the places you interviewed for IM and not have had to depend on soap…where you have very little control.

you are at your most competitive as a 4th year…especially if you are not a USMD so next year, as a graduate, you will be competing with the us seniors…and you are restricting yourself geographically as well.

if you are considering reapplying to psych, you probably should talk to some…a Pd in psych at your program to have them objectively assess your application and see what you need to improve.

I only applied Psych didn't apply IM..
I only got 7 IIs...

If I apply IM for the match, could I still be going for PGY2 positions or just PGY1?

 

[rokshana]

I only applied Psych didn't apply IM..
I only got 7 IIs...

If I apply IM for the match, could I still be going for PGY2 positions or just PGY1?

Sorry… misread your post.
There are some R2 positions in the match, but usually not a huge number…if you are looking at a certain geographical area, then you may need to apply for pgy 1 spots as well and repeat the year.

the IM pgy 1 year may give you some credit for the pgy 1 psych year, but you will m/l have to apply for pgy1 psych programs as well.

 

[PugsAndHugs]

No..I understand…you applied to both psych and IM… for whatever reason you thought you were competitive enough for psych and decided not to rank your back up…

He said 3x before he did not apply IM.
I empathize with your situation and understand when you did not match you were under a lot of pressure to SOAP vs be left without a residency program. Now you are regretting it. If you are set on psych, I would do whatever you can to increase your chances of rematching (more rotations, research, making connections). If that seems unrealistic to you, then maybe your best bet is to stick it out with your current program.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Deep breath everyone. We are all trying to help.

There are no PGY-2 positions for IM in the match. Only PGY-1 positions are available through the match in IM. Fields that match PGY-2 advanced programs have current year PGY-2 positions in the match -- but that's a different story.

So, options:

You could apply to psych PGY-1 positions in the match. If you do this, you probably want to inform your program soon and get a letter from the PD. Most programs will want to know about your current level of performance. This option can leave you in a bit of a bind -- you won't know if you match to a program until mid March, but your current program may demand a commitment for next year before that, as trying to fill an open position at the PGY-2 level isn't straightforward (see the net para). That means that you MIGHT need to let your PGY-2 spot go before knowing if you actually have a new spot, potentially rolling you into SOAP again.

You could try to switch programs in the PGY-2 year. This will definitely need the assistance of your PD. PGY-2 positions are often not advertised all that widely, and with your PD's support they might be willing to reach out to programs in the area you're interested in. Usually, it becomes clear to programs that they will have an open PGY-2 position in Jan-Mar lthough it could be anytime. The better PGY-2 candidates find (better) spots earlier, and it can become crazy right after the match as people who didn't match (perhaps prelims looking for an advanced PGY-2) now scramble around for a categorical IM PGY-2.

Or you could finish this program. Less than ideal personally, but simpler all around. Then you can get a job anywhere you want.

 

[aafisahar]

I don’t think this is the case anymore. Psych is more competitive than IM now.

straight from charting outcomes

Psych - Step 1/ 227/241, research experience 3.1, Pubs 5.6, AOA 6.8%, top 40 - 29.6%

IM - Step 1/2 235/248, Research 3.3, Pubs 6.2, AOA 17.4%, top 40 - 33.6%

And IM is diluted by all the garbage community programs where you need a thready pulse to match.

 

[rokshana]

straight from charting outcomes

Psych - Step 1/ 227/241, research experience 3.1, Pubs 5.6, AOA 6.8%, top 40 - 29.6%

IM - Step 1/2 235/248, Research 3.3, Pubs 6.2, AOA 17.4%, top 40 - 33.6%

And IM is diluted by all the garbage community programs where you need a thready pulse to match.

I’m sure there is a fair share of garbage community psych programs as well…

thanks for looking this up…as I said, psych is less or about the same as IM in competitiveness.

 

[Questionsaboutmedicine]

And IM is diluted by all the garbage community programs where you need a thready pulse to match.

I straight up lol'ed when I read that. So much shade

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I straight up lol'ed when I read that. So much shade

A lot of truth too it. Apparently it’s easier to start a community IM program than FM. That’s what my school told me, so take it with a grain of salt. Definitely can have huge variation with IM.

 

[Questionsaboutmedicine]

A lot of truth too it. Apparently it’s easier to start a community IM program than FM. That’s what my school told me, so take it with a grain of salt. Definitely can have huge variation with IM.

Kind of makes sense. You don't have to connected to a peds hospital, L n D, or surgical suite with IM.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Kind of makes sense. You don't have to connected to a peds hospital, L n D, or surgical suite with IM.

I don’t know how many of these community fm programs would met the peds hosp requirement. I guess they can ship the residents off HCA style. Honestly that shouldn’t be a thing unless they are paying for lodging for the resident.

 

[collegestud2013]

straight from charting outcomes

Psych - Step 1/ 227/241, research experience 3.1, Pubs 5.6, AOA 6.8%, top 40 - 29.6%

IM - Step 1/2 235/248, Research 3.3, Pubs 6.2, AOA 17.4%, top 40 - 33.6%

And IM is diluted by all the garbage community programs where you need a thready pulse to match.

Those numbers are only for US MDs, which tend to match at the mid tire to higher ranked IM programs (with many intending to do competitive fellowships afterwards). The lower tier garbage community IM programs have nearly all IMGs.

 

[collegestud2013]

Hi all, currently a PGY1 IM resident at a program I am happy at but I really dislike being away from home. One of my parents are sick and I really feel being away from home has taken a toll on me. I am performing well in residency and think the people are great here, but I am trying to get to a closer program near home. What suggestions do you all have? Could I apply to an advanced PGY2 IM position near NYC through the match or could I apply to PGY2 IM programs in NYC or nearby outside the match?

There's a good chance you can transfer into one considering there's around over 30 IM programs in the NYC area. However, you may be stuck with a lower tier malignant program full of IMGs/IMGs that NYC is notorious for so you would have to be okay with that for at least 2 years. These programs have very high turnover because of these malignant work conditions which you probably have heard of (eg insane amount of scut with minimal ancillary support, frequent ACGME duty hour and patient load violations), poor fellowship placement chances, minimal teaching, and many will need a PGY2 to transfer there to replace a resident that leaves. Check around February-April next year (when most resident contracts go out and most interns decide to not stay at the same program for PGY2 year).