[WAMC/School List] NY, ORM, 2.95 cGPA, 2.61 sGPA, 518 MCAT, upward trend + DIY post-bacc

[mistertwister]

Hello! Thanks for what you all do here. My details and some questions at the bottom. Any feedback is appreciated.

NY resident, ORM

Stats
CUNY Undergrad
cGPA- 2.95 and sGPA- 2.61

22 DIY science post-bacc credits @ 4.0 later
cGPA- 3.08 and sGPA- 2.86

MCAT - June 2021
518 (130/129/129/130)

Clinical Experience

• 5500 hours as home aide for a family member
• 2000 hours as a medical assistant in an ophthalmology clinic (1300 hours projected)

Research - one year at undergrad, no pubs, solid letter from PI

Shadowing - 50 hours (half MD, half DO, IM)

Non-clinical volunteering

• 150 hours of volunteer MCAT tutoring (2 hrs a week, 110 hours projected. Leadership position that I started)
• 80 hours of volunteer middle school tutoring (1.5 hrs a week, 60 hours projected, underserved population)

LizzyM: 66.80 (47%)
WARS: 54

Major questions

• Are my MD applications dead on arrival? What about for next cycle after my sGPA passes 3.0?
• Any reason not to apply this cycle?
• I have a lack of clinical volunteering. Is this something I need to try to start immediately, or is it too late to be relevant?
• Am I competitive for DO, or lucky to get in?
• When looking at out of state schools what are some good things to consider?

The MD schools I was thinking about (I am assuming this won't happen but I have the free applications so...)

• New York Medical College
• Jacobs School of Medicine and Biomedical Sciences at the University at Buffalo
• Albany Medical College
• SUNY Downstate
• SUNY Upstate

The DO schools I was thinking about (I'm not sure how broadly I should apply here or what states I should be looking at, these are just the ones in NY)

• TOUROCOM
• LECOM
• NYITCOM

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[voxveritatisetlucis]

I think that MD will be very hard with the GPA. By all means try, so you don’t regret it later but I would also apply to an equal amount of DO schools

 

[mistertwister]

I think that MD will be very hard with the GPA. By all means try, so you don’t regret it later but I would also apply to an equal amount of DO schools

I have 20 AAMC applications with fee assistance so I do want to use some of them, but I do get that I'm primarily a DO applicant than an MD applicant. Just looking to get some insight onto the DO schools that would make sense for me.

 

[chilly_md]

If you can do more credits to get over a 3.0 sgpa, you’ll have better chances. 22 credits might not be fully enough to convince admissions that you are a different student and you would want to avoid getting auto-filtered out too.

 

[mistertwister]

If you can do more credits to get over a 3.0 sgpa, you’ll have better chances. 22 credits might not be fully enough to convince admissions that you are a different student and you would want to avoid getting auto-filtered out too.

My main question is how much of a better chance it would really be. The original plan was to apply next year's cycle after doing exactly the bolded, but I'm also curious if DO schools are within reach this cycle. I haven't been able to find any solid info on auto-filters, is it a thing?

 

[chilly_md]

My main question is how much of a better chance it would really be. The original plan was to apply next year's cycle after doing exactly the bolded, but I'm also curious if DO schools are within reach this cycle. I haven't been able to find any solid info on auto-filters, is it a thing?

DO schools will have a hard time looking past your science GPA even with a high MCAT score. With a 2.61 undergrad sGPA, it will require more work to show you are a different student.

 

[Faha]

You would be better off to apply a year from now after additional undergraduate level science courses in a DIY post bacc. If you increase your sGPA to 3.0 you will be less likely to be screened out. When you do apply I suggest these DO schools:
Touro-NY
UNECOM
NYITCOM (both schools)
LECOM (all schools)
PCOM (all schools)
MU-COM
KCU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
AZCOM
TUNCOM
UIWSOM
WCU-COM
ACOM
WVSOM
For MD schools you could try these:
New York Medical College
Albany
All 4 SUNYs
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Hackensack
Drexel
Temple
George Washington
NOVA MD
TCU-UNT
Creighton
Loyola
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Wayne State
200+ hours of clinical volunteering with patient contact in the coming year will also help your chances.

 

[mistertwister]

DO schools will have a hard time looking past your science GPA even with a high MCAT score. With a 2.61 undergrad sGPA, it will require more work to show you are a different student.

You would be better off to apply a year from now after additional undergraduate level science courses in a DIY post bacc. If you increase your sGPA to 3.0 you will be less likely to be screened out. When you do apply I suggest these DO schools:
.
For MD schools you could try these:

.
200+ hours of clinical volunteering with patient contact in the coming year will also help your chances.

Thanks for this, I really appreciate it. Ironically I was also thinking I would need to apply next cycle, but my advisor suggested I apply this cycle anyway. His reasoning was that I wouldn't be that much of a better applicant next cycle. I'm thinking that a 3.0 sGPA + clinical volunteering will probably be pretty helpful though. Is there any downside to applying this cycle knowing I'll probably be rejected? My MCAT taken in June 2021 is only good for this cycle and the next. Again thanks very much for the advice and Faha for the list.

 

[chilly_md]

It would cost you quite a bit of money and time that could have gone to something else. And schools will probably have an essay question if you are a reapplicant to their school and ask what has changed. So you would be also creating more work for yourself that way.

 

[Faha]

You could receive interviews at some DO schools since your MCAT of 518 and good ECs will attract attention.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Interesting question. If you want a particular goal, I find that a full-time semester courseload is 15 hours, so an additional year is about 30 hours. I don't know what you took in your postbac to date, but if getting A's in 3 more classes (9 hours) is enough to put your undergrad sGPA over the 3.0 mark, you could get more responses. That's not a guarantee though, and I don't know what is left on the board for you.

So in terms of costs: weigh the cost of an application cycle, 9 hours of courses plus the cost of an application cycle, and the cost of TWO application cycles.

Again, you might be in a good position to apply now. Certainly DO schools in general would likely be interested. Maybe some allopathic programs, but you should do your homework and network before considering to send what could be a donation.

 

[mistertwister]

Thanks all. I am going to apply to a limited number of DO schools and scope out if there are any allopathic schools that wouldn't auto filter me. At the same time I will definitely take at least another full semester so I am prepared to apply next cycle in the likely event that I need to. I believe it will take me 18 more credits to hit 3.00 sGPA so this summer and this fall probably.

Thanks for the advice @Mr.Smile12 @Faha @chilly_md

 

[Radishguy]

For people who have responded, is there any harm in doing it this way (applying to limited schools now with the intention of applying more broadly later on), other than the cost of the applications? I’ve seen kind of mixed responses to this. If you are a reapplicant with the same stats, that’s generally seen as a bad thing. But what if you are a reapplicant with significantly improved stats, is that looked at favorably, unfavorably, or not considered at all?

 

[Goro]

If you can do more credits to get over a 3.0 sgpa, you’ll have better chances. 22 credits might not be fully enough to convince admissions that you are a different student and you would want to avoid getting auto-filtered out too.

DO schools will have a hard time looking past your science GPA even with a high MCAT score. With a 2.61 undergrad sGPA, it will require more work to show you are a different student.

You would be better off to apply a year from now after additional undergraduate level science courses in a DIY post bacc. If you increase your sGPA to 3.0 you will be less likely to be screened out. When you do apply I suggest these DO schools:

200+ hours of clinical volunteering with patient contact in the coming year will also help your chances.

I agree 1000% with the wise advise above.

For people who have responded, is there any harm in doing it this way (applying to limited schools now with the intention of applying more broadly later on), other than the cost of the applications? I’ve seen kind of mixed responses to this. If you are a reapplicant with the same stats, that’s generally seen as a bad thing. But what if you are a reapplicant with significantly improved stats, is that looked at favorably, unfavorably, or not considered at all?

OP, are you trying to get into medical school quickly, or get into medical school?
You should apply when you have the best possible app, even if it means skipping an app cycle. Med schools aren't' going anywhere.
You're not ready yet, end of story.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

For people who have responded, is there any harm in doing it this way (applying to limited schools now with the intention of applying more broadly later on), other than the cost of the applications? I’ve seen kind of mixed responses to this. If you are a reapplicant with the same stats, that’s generally seen as a bad thing. But what if you are a reapplicant with significantly improved stats, is that looked at favorably, unfavorably, or not considered at all?

I don't think so. A lot of applicants will apply to a throwaway to get verified; they will add schools later once their test scores are reported and depending on the result.

 

[mistertwister]

I agree 1000% with the wise advise above.



OP, are you trying to get into medical school quickly, or get into medical school?
You should apply when you have the best possible app, even if it means skipping an app cycle. Med schools aren't' going anywhere.
You're not ready yet, end of story.

To answer your question truthfully, I am trying to get into medical school quickly since my MCAT is only good for this cycle and the next. Is the only reason I'm not ready the sub 3.00 sGPA? Is there anything else I ought to be investing my time and efforts into? I need to make this year count! Thank you.

 

[chilly_md]

To answer your question truthfully, I am trying to get into medical school quickly since my MCAT is only good for this cycle and the next. Is the only reason I'm not ready the sub 3.00 sGPA? Is there anything else I ought to be investing my time and efforts into? I need to make this year count! Thank you.

Get more service to those less fortunate. Your non-clinical volunteering consists of tutoring, which is a very common activity for pre-med students. Try for something non-academic related, such as helping at your local homeless shelter, food bank, soup kitchen, Big Brothers Big Sisters etc.

 

[Calizboosted76]

Read a few of the responses and then skipped the rest, so I am not sure if this was already addressed.

I got in with a sGPA of 2.9, cGPA of 2.67 (however my last 60ish were around a 3.8 GPA). My MCAT was a LOT weaker than yours as well. I think Goro has a rule of 2 years of continued academic excellence.

Good Luck!

 

[mistertwister]

Read a few of the responses and then skipped the rest, so I am not sure if this was already addressed.

I got in with a sGPA of 2.9, cGPA of 2.67 (however my last 60ish were around a 3.8 GPA). My MCAT was a LOT weaker than yours as well. I think Goro has a rule of 2 years of continued academic excellence.

Good Luck!

Hey, congrats! Awesome that you got in with sub 3.0 GPAs! Its very inspiring. My last 50 credits are 3.9, I basically have a year and a half of good academic performance so far.

Did you only apply DO? Do you think I have a shot this cycle or am I throwing my money away? Regardless of whether or not I apply this cycle, I plan to do another ~20 credits this summer and fall to give my best shot next cycle.

 

[Calizboosted76]

Hey, congrats! Awesome that you got in with sub 3.0 GPAs! Its very inspiring. My last 50 credits are 3.9, I basically have a year and a half of good academic performance so far.

Did you only apply DO? Do you think I have a shot this cycle or am I throwing my money away? Regardless of whether or not I apply this cycle, I plan to do another ~20 credits this summer and fall to give my best shot next cycle.

Thanks!

Yea I got 3 interviews and was accepted to both schools that I attended interviews at. I think you could have a decent shot with well written primaries and secondaries. HOWEVER this is only from an academic stand point that I am speaking. I am not sure how your extracurriculars (or lack there of) will impact your app.

I would ask Goro with the added detail of how well your last 50 credits were because in my opinion from being on this forum, you've demonstrated reinvention. 22 credits may not have been enough but 50 is enough when paired with well thought out primary and secondary apps.

Good Luck.

 

[mistertwister]

Thanks!

Yea I got 3 interviews and was accepted to both schools that I attended interviews at. I think you could have a decent shot with well written primaries and secondaries. HOWEVER this is only from an academic stand point that I am speaking. I am not sure how your extracurriculars (or lack there of) will impact your app.

I would ask Goro with the added detail of how well your last 50 credits were because in my opinion from being on this forum, you've demonstrated reinvention. 22 credits may not have been enough but 50 is enough when paired with well thought out primary and secondary apps.

Good Luck.

Thank you, this is something I'm still a bit confused about. Basically my 22 credits figure is from my post-bacc starting in 2021 which is @ 4.0. But my final year of college adds another 19 BCPM credits at 3.9. So overall my last 50 credits are at 3.9 (but 9 of them are not BCPM so more accurately, my last 41 BCPM credits are at 3.9).

Are they looking at this in terms of before/after graduation or simply at "X number of last credits." The reason I only mentioned the 22 post-bacc credits is because an adcom interviewer explicitly told me not to combine the college and post-bacc GPAs. @Goro sorry to trouble you with the minutiae!

 

[Calizboosted76]

Thank you, this is something I'm still a bit confused about. Basically my 22 credits figure is from my post-bacc starting in 2021 which is @ 4.0. But my final year of college adds another 19 BCPM credits at 3.9. So overall my last 50 credits are at 3.9 (but 9 of them are not BCPM so more accurately, my last 41 BCPM credits are at 3.9).

Are they looking at this in terms of before/after graduation or simply at "X number of last credits." The reason I only mentioned the 22 post-bacc credits is because an adcom interviewer explicitly told me not to combine the college and post-bacc GPAs. @Goro sorry to trouble you with the minutiae!

So it gets confusing. I didn't do a post bacc and that hindered me big time because some colleges wouldn't look at my upward trend in the correct way. They seen my final 2 years in undergrad as one big super senior year and I had to email and point out that it was indeed two years and that I just prolonged graduation due to wanting to use financial aid for classes.

You having a post bacc and a solid senior year will help break up the ambiguity that was there when adcoms looked at my transcript.

 

[mistertwister]

So it gets confusing. I didn't do a post bacc and that hindered me big time because some colleges wouldn't look at my upward trend in the correct way. They seen my final 2 years in undergrad as one big super senior year and I had to email and point out that it was indeed two years and that I just prolonged graduation due to wanting to use financial aid for classes.

You having a post bacc and a solid senior year will help break up the ambiguity that was there when adcoms looked at my transcript.

Shoot I'm going to have the same issue. My 4th year in college was a bit rocky, my 5th year is what I'm calling my senior year, though I guess it's actually my super senior year. When you emailed adcoms how did you explain what they should look at politely? And when in the process did you email them?

Thanks so much for posting btw. It really helps to talk to someone who went through the same thing successfully.

 

[Calizboosted76]

Shoot I'm going to have the same issue. My 4th year in college was a bit rocky, my 5th year is what I'm calling my senior year, though I guess it's actually my super senior year. When you emailed adcoms how did you explain what they should look at politely? And when in the process did you email them?

Thanks so much for posting btw. It really helps to talk to someone who went through the same thing successfully.

I reached out to programs after sending my secondaries in. I just provided a brief explanation and sometimes I would get a response that they made a note of the "nuance" in my account and other times I would not receive any correspondence back. However from my experience if you receive a rejection you need to ask for areas to improve on in your application. Again, some places will respond and others will not. If any of them mention that your GPA was just subpar and suggest that you do course work to show that you can handle the work, simply respond explaining how your senior year included two years of course work and if they look at the most recent of those two years paired with your post bacc you have an upward trend of this GPA over so many credit hours.

Some places wont care and will say they still want to see more course work done (Im looking at you WVSOM lol jkjk great school) and others will be very open to hearing your side and making a note. I got a rejection overridden and secondary sent to me by reaching out when I was rejected and it actually turned into an acceptance to the school Im at currently.


I will add, do not expect this to be exactly what happens to you. I had a story of overcoming the odds and advocated very heavily for myself. So I do not want to give you false hope. However I personally feel that you can make it happen.

 

[mistertwister]

I reached out to programs after sending my secondaries in. I just provided a brief explanation and sometimes I would get a response that they made a note of the "nuance" in my account and other times I would not receive any correspondence back. However from my experience if you receive a rejection you need to ask for areas to improve on in your application. Again, some places will respond and others will not. If any of them mention that your GPA was just subpar and suggest that you do course work to show that you can handle the work, simply respond explaining how your senior year included two years of course work and if they look at the most recent of those two years paired with your post bacc you have an upward trend of this GPA over so many credit hours.

Some places wont care and will say they still want to see more course work done (Im looking at you WVSOM lol jkjk great school) and others will be very open to hearing your side and making a note. I got a rejection overridden and secondary sent to me by reaching out when I was rejected and it actually turned into an acceptance to the school Im at currently.


I will add, do not expect this to be exactly what happens to you. I had a story of overcoming the odds and advocated very heavily for myself. So I do not want to give you false hope. However I personally feel that you can make it happen.

Thanks so much. Genuinely invaluable information. I understand that I might get rejected anyways but knowing that it's possible to personally appeal makes me feel like I shouldn't squander the opportunity to apply DO this cycle. After all I only have two years before my 518 gets sent to the Shadow Realm.

Really appreciate you!

 

[Calizboosted76]

Thanks so much. Genuinely invaluable information. I understand that I might get rejected anyways but knowing that it's possible to personally appeal makes me feel like I shouldn't squander the opportunity to apply DO this cycle. After all I only have two years before my 518 gets sent to the Shadow Realm.

Really appreciate you!

Nice touch haha

Feel free to message me with any other questions or concerns.

 

[mistertwister]

So, it turns out, I've been calculating my science GPA wrong.

For the past couple years I have been operating under the assumption that AAMC sGPA is the same as AACOMAS sGPA. I think this was reinforced when AACOMAS got rid of grade replacement and I assumed that they had the exact same GPA treatment overall now. And I guess whenever I had read "BCP" my brain autocorrected it to include the M. Today I was reading over the AACOMAS GPA info and was confused why math was listed as non-science. It took me a good while to realize what had happened.

Well, guess who doesn't count so good and failed calculus multiple times?

My sGPA for allopathic schools remains 2.86... but my sGPA for osteopathic schools is actually 3.05 because two Fs have suddenly disappeared.

What does this leave me folks? And yeah I'm aware I have rocks for brains.