veterinary internship & residencies

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ovc2012

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hi everyone,

I'm just wondering about the GPAs/grades required for a veterinary internship/residency. I know it's not all about the GPA and it's merely just a component of your "package" applying for an internship but I figured there is at least some kind of a cut-off point. Does anyone have any idea what it would be on a rough scale??

Thanks! :D
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I work at a small animal private practice with an internship program and from what I've seen, grades aren't the primary factor in choosing an intern class. They matter, of course, but someone with top notch clinical skills and a personality that would fit in well with the rest of the team are more important. Anecdotally, I have seen applicants with less than a 3.0 (but who were outstanding in other respects) receive serious consideration.
 
It really depends on the residency. More competitive fields like surgery like to see at >3.5 at least, unless you have super duper other credits. Internships tend to be more forgiving, I believe.
 
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I also think it depends on the particular program. For internship, if you're at least 3.5 you're in the mix. 3-3.5 may or may not make the cutoff. <3 you're not going to be competitive at many academic internships.

I actually think GPA is a little less critical for residency because they have something more than just vet. school to go on, that is, you internship performance.
 
Hey guys!

Thanks! :) Another question...how do GPA's work? Are all institutions different? Guelph doesn't do GPAs and we're just given a percentage out of 100...
 
I know where I work class rank is considered alongside GPA.
 
So is it a requirement for residencies that you have a prior internship? What if you have a lot of good experience pre-residency?

I am looking to go into a zoo medicine resideny (yeah, I know, competitive) but by the time I graduate, I'll have had a summer's worth of research in S. Africa on african buffalo (publishing a paper and hoping to present at the WDA meeting) and also working on employment with Game and Fish this summer doing wildlife vet work (as well as looking at doing a Christmas break externship with another wildlife agency).

Aside from obvious rotations in fourth year, can you walk into a residency without an internship?
 
Hey everyone! I am at the end of my first year and I am really starting to stress out because I don't feel like my GPA is going to be good enough for an internship and residency. It's one of those in the 3-3.5 range. However, it does not appear (based on exam averages and ranges) that there are many people in my class with amazing GPAs. So my question is, in general, do students' GPAs rise during clinics? Is it normal to start off a little lower on the GPA scale than what you will end up with when it comes time to apply for internships? Also, on average how many credits for your GPA do you receive when you're doing clinical rotations (ie, do the grades really affect your GPA much)? Any input is appreciated very much! Thank you! :)
 
Mylez said:
So is it a requirement for residencies that you have a prior internship? What if you have a lot of good experience pre-residency?

I am looking to go into a zoo medicine resideny (yeah, I know, competitive) but by the time I graduate, I'll have had a summer's worth of research in S. Africa on african buffalo (publishing a paper and hoping to present at the WDA meeting) and also working on employment with Game and Fish this summer doing wildlife vet work (as well as looking at doing a Christmas break externship with another wildlife agency).

Aside from obvious rotations in fourth year, can you walk into a residency without an internship?
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I'm pretty sure you need an internship before you do a residency. Apparently, because internships are now so competitive and residencies even more competitive, there are people who do multiple internships (eg: a regular internship and then a surgery internship) before they get a residency position.
 
QuarterHorseGal said:
Hey everyone! I am at the end of my first year and I am really starting to stress out because I don't feel like my GPA is going to be good enough for an internship and residency. It's one of those in the 3-3.5 range. However, it does not appear (based on exam averages and ranges) that there are many people in my class with amazing GPAs. So my question is, in general, do students' GPAs rise during clinics? Is it normal to start off a little lower on the GPA scale than what you will end up with when it comes time to apply for internships? Also, on average how many credits for your GPA do you receive when you're doing clinical rotations (ie, do the grades really affect your GPA much)? Any input is appreciated very much! Thank you! :)
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I'm not sure if the grades you receive for clinical rotations will count towards consideration for an internship. From what I know, I'm pretty sure we apply for internships in October of your 4th year - which, I presume is when you do your clinical rotations (that's how it works in OVC - not sure about everywhere else). So really, I think it's on the 1-3 phases/years that count. And apparently, they look at your cumulative average - so including all the university years you did before getting into vet school.

But I was wondering the same thing too. It doesn't seem as if there are a lot of people doing "spectacularly" - obviously, there are the few. But I went to the internship & residency talk and they said that you need at least a 75% - which is usually the "rough" cutoff point. I don't know what that converts to in terms of GPA - no idea how GPAs work...:(
 
The requirement of an internship before a residency also varies with the specialty, i.e. many surgery residencies require one, pathology ones usually do not or consider it a bonus. Zoo med is VERY competitve and will usually require an internship.

My school has pass/fail clinics with written evaluations. I suppose some schools do graded clinics?

75% is around a C minus at my school (and most here in the US I'd wager), or a 1.7 out of 3.0, not NEARLY enough for a competitive residency GPA......that doesn't make sense...hrmmm....

Most residencies want at *least* a 3.0 (B average) for them to look at you, the more competitive ones like to see 3.5's (A minus/B+ or above) Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but in general shoot high. or above

Here is my schools grading scale if you want an example:

100 to 94 is an A, or a 4.0
91 to 93.9 is an A minus, or a 3.7
88 to 90.9 is a B+, or a 3.3
85 to 87.9 is a B, or 3.0
82 to 84.9 is a B minus, or 2.7
79 to 81.9 is a C +, or 2.3
76 to 78.9 is a C, or 2.0
73 to 75.9 is a C minus, or 1.7
70 to 72.9 is a D +, or 1.3
67 yo 69.9 is a D, or 1.0
64 to 66.9 is a D minus, or 0.7
below 64 is F, or 0.0 (and gets you kicked out if it is a core course you fail, yikes)
 
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WhtsThFrequency said:
The requirement of an internship before a residency also varies with the specialty, i.e. many surgery residencies require one, pathology ones usually do not or consider it a bonus. Zoo med is VERY competitve and will usually require an internship.

My school has pass/fail clinics with written evaluations. I suppose some schools do graded clinics?

75% is around a C minus at my school (and most here in the US I'd wager), or a 1.7 out of 3.0, not NEARLY enough for a competitive residency GPA......that doesn't make sense...hrmmm....

Most residencies want at *least* a 3.0 (B average) for them to look at you, the more competitive ones like to see 3.5's (A minus/B+ or above) Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but in general shoot high. or above

Here is my schools grading scale if you want an example:

100 to 94 is an A, or a 4.0
91 to 93.9 is an A minus, or a 3.7
88 to 90.9 is a B+, or a 3.3
85 to 87.9 is a B, or 3.0
82 to 84.9 is a B minus, or 2.7
79 to 81.9 is a C +, or 2.3
76 to 78.9 is a C, or 2.0
73 to 75.9 is a C minus, or 1.7
70 to 72.9 is a D +, or 1.3
67 yo 69.9 is a D, or 1.0
64 to 66.9 is a D minus, or 0.7
below 64 is F, or 0.0 (and gets you kicked out if it is a core course you fail, yikes)
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Grading in Canada is much different. We do not have the grade inflation that the US does. 75% would roughly be considered a 3.0 - 3.5 depending on the course. This is why class rank is considered a better measure of your overall performance.
 
Out of curiosity, what is the difference? I've always been curious as to the definition of "grade inflation"....because to me, 75% of the answers right is 75% wherever you go....you cannot inflate a 75 to an 85, magically unless you're talking curving (doesn't happen).

what you call that 75% (B, C, etc) may vary, but technically would not inflation be calling a 75% an A? Grade inflation to me means giving higher grades too easily....but if a 75 is a B in Canadian veterinary schools and a C in the US veterinary schools....it doesn't make sense to say we have grade inflation here....and in terms of subjective difficulty I'd wager vet school is the same in terms of that no matter what country you're in. I'd agree that a lot of US IVy League schools have been known to practice grade inflation, but we're talking vet school, not college.

I do agree that class rank is a better measure. Actually, the best measure would be via LORs and people that can truly articulate your intelligence and potential, not just numbers.
 
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GPA depends entirely upon your school. A 4.0 GPA at one school may correlate with a 95% average whereas a 4.0 GPA at another school may correlate with an 80% average. You can find your specific school's conversion chart published within the calendar, usually.

I've been a student in both the US and Canada and found the grading schemes pretty similar, the only difference being that my school in the states (Cornell) graded on a curve, whereas my school in Canada did not. I think a lot of people have misconceptions that curving grades "inflates" them, but this is not always true. I remember an intro sociology class where I scored a 90% on the first exam, but became a C+ when the curve was applied :mad:.

Personally I think a number / GPA average is useful to indicate a student's performance, but is much more meaningful when also supplied with a class rank or class average. There's a big difference between a student who gets an A- when the class average is a B+ and a student who gets a A- when the class average is a C-. Without the class rank, it's impossible to differentiate between the two students.
 
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It does depend on the internship/residency. Academic internships will probably have a cutoff around 3.0, but have >3.5 to be competitive. Some places (CSU, NCSU) don't really consider you seriously unless you interview.

Residencies seem to be a little more lenient since they want someone who is easy to get along with and trainable, and it's easier to determine that after an internship (or 2). But I was once told that I needed >3.5 GPA to be considered for a surgery residency, for what it's worth.

For zoo med residencies, an internship is helpful but not required. I think you can have 3-5 years zoo experience instead. However, most zoo residents I know did a small animal rotating internship, and then worked or did other specialty internships before being considered. Zoo is very competitive and you need a HUGE breadth of experience with all kinds of species, not just a couple. Publications help too since you need at least 5 to sit for boards.
 
Regarding foreign schools... what I've heard is that often times US schools do not understand the grading system over there. Having a clinician in a letter of recommendation clarify where you stand (top 10% of class, top 2% of class) can help them get past the seemingly low GPA.

Interviewing will also help if you're serious about a place. But it's difficult for foreign grads to apply because you just don't look the same on paper. If you can interview over the phone, even, that might help.
 
GoldensForever said:
It does depend on the internship/residency. Academic internships will probably have a cutoff around 3.0, but have >3.5 to be competitive. Some places (CSU, NCSU) don't really consider you seriously unless you interview.

Residencies seem to be a little more lenient since they want someone who is easy to get along with and trainable, and it's easier to determine that after an internship (or 2). But I was once told that I needed >3.5 GPA to be considered for a surgery residency, for what it's worth.

For zoo med residencies, an internship is helpful but not required. I think you can have 3-5 years zoo experience instead. However, most zoo residents I know did a small animal rotating internship, and then worked or did other specialty internships before being considered. Zoo is very competitive and you need a HUGE breadth of experience with all kinds of species, not just a couple. Publications help too since you need at least 5 to sit for boards.
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Do you know if it is very common for someone that wants zoo/exotics/wildlife have a more advance university degree like a masters or phD? I just check out the American Association of Wildlife Vets and it seems like most that go into the zoo/aquariums had a long road to get there. You don't get a seaworld job out of vet school and you have to wait for someone to die to get a position is what I hear..
 
Please allow me to talk you out of exotics by sharing a recent horror story:

We had the sole veterinarian of the Dallas Ft. Worth Zoo come and speak to us a few weeks ago. He is double-boarded and internationally involved in Elephant medicine, among other things. He makes $40,000 a year and had to draw up a presentation to DFW Zoo to convince them it would actually SAVE them money by hiring him. Before that, they had just managed fine on technicians and handlers, and only contractually used a vet on a 'as needed' basis.

Yikes.
 
InfiniVet said:
Please allow me to talk you out of exotics by sharing a recent horror story:

We had the sole veterinarian of the Dallas Ft. Worth Zoo come and speak to us a few weeks ago. He is double-boarded and internationally involved in Elephant medicine, among other things. He makes $40,000 a year and had to draw up a presentation to DFW Zoo to convince them it would actually SAVE them money by hiring him. Before that, they had just managed fine on technicians and handlers, and only contractually used a vet on a 'as needed' basis.

Yikes.
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Do people not understand the value of the worlds wildlife vanishing and a need for more awareness and emphasis on saving populations while keeping the species healthy? I don't understand why wildlife vets do not make income with the hell they go through to become known in the field or just to make it. Our world relies on the worlds plants and animals along with it! I could go on with my tree hugging ways...;)
 
I think $40,000 a year is pretty standard for zoo/wildlife medicine pay. It's unforunate, but true. However, I have seen some of the larger zoos salaries for their vets, and they are more industry average ($70,000/yr - much better!)

I was told recently by a Game and Fish vet that you (in his opinion) can walk into a wildlife or zoo medicine job if you plan and network appropriately during vet school. That's my ultimate goal, but I'll still be applying for a match on graduation. I know I'm a strong applicant, so I'm not too worried - there is a job out there for me and I know I'll find it!
 
Supply and demand. Everyone* who goes to vet. school wants to do exotics/zoo/wildlife. In reality, there are not that many of these jobs available.


*exaggeration, but only slightly, to make a point
 
Mylez said:
I think $40,000 a year is pretty standard for zoo/wildlife medicine pay. It's unforunate, but true. However, I have seen some of the larger zoos salaries for their vets, and they are more industry average ($70,000/yr - much better!)

I was told recently by a Game and Fish vet that you (in his opinion) can walk into a wildlife or zoo medicine job if you plan and network appropriately during vet school. That's my ultimate goal, but I'll still be applying for a match on graduation. I know I'm a strong applicant, so I'm not too worried - there is a job out there for me and I know I'll find it!
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I am afraid I am going to mess up where you have a nice plan laid out for yourself the networking thing when you reach graduation. How do you have a lot of networking while attending vet school though?

It is all about who you know in the field..I do not want to be a vet if its not wildlife...I know picky, but that is me. I rather be a scientist or go MD if I do not do what I feel passionate about. It sucks the salaries that you start out as, but its not all doom, especially if you have a advanced degree. You make a lot better for those neat nitch jobs with expertise plus the vet degree, plus the board certified, and plus experiences.
 
Sorry, I don't know how to do the 'quotes'.

Basically, to answer your question, networking is networking. Meet and talk to every single zoo/wildlife/exotic vet you come across. Not only that, but get their contact information and most important - STAY IN TOUCH. If you get the info and then get in touch three years later for a fourth year rotation, they aren't as likely to remember you as they are if you send an email here and there. Case in point, I have an externship set up for the summer already because I kept in touch with the zoo vet I shadowed in high school/early undergrad. She told me to tell them when I wanted to come and they'd make space for me. ;)

What I would advise people who want to get into the field is that it is really competitive - I thought the competitive attitude would end when vet school started (and for most of us it has) but for zoo medicine, the competition is there all of the time and it is very obnoxious.

Experience is important and flexibility too. Zoo med requires that you move around to get those experiences (and most importantly jobs) - so being tied down would definitely hamper your ability to get that job/residency/externship. And you may have to accept that you can't make money over the summer (and may lose money) to get the experience that will make you stand out when you are looking for a job.

All of that negativity and I'm still working toward it - it just depends on how bad you want it and how flexible you can be to go after it. Bill59 is right, everyone wants to be a zoo vet, but of those, only a small fraction are actually actively pursuing it (ie working at your standby small animal clinic isn't going to be as good as an internship at a zoo).
 
Apart from exotics, which fields/specialties do you think are the hardest to get into (supply/demand)? I *heard* there are few opportunities outside of universities for LA internal med, but I have no idea if that's true. How about the SA fields? Is dermatology as competitive as for human med specialties?:confused:

Do the residencies/internships availability correlate with jobs availability? For example, I heard that there is a lot of need for lab animal vets, but I don't know if there are many residency slots.
 
eatpinkpenguins said:
Apart from exotics, which fields/specialties do you think are the hardest to get into (supply/demand)? I *heard* there are few opportunities outside of universities for LA internal med, but I have no idea if that's true. How about the SA fields? Is dermatology as competitive as for human med specialties?:confused:

Do the residencies/internships availability correlate with jobs availability? For example, I heard that there is a lot of need for lab animal vets, but I don't know if there are many residency slots.
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Quite frankly speaking, I think most internships & residencies are going to be competitive - especially residencies. From what I understand, surgical residencies are, if not the hardest, one of the most competitive residencies to get just because "everyone" wants to be a surgeon. Aside from that, cardiology is also extremely competitive as well as internal medicine. I've heard that some people do an internship and then if they don't get a residency, they continue to do multiple internships specific to their interests (eg: surgical or cardiology internship). It's apparently getting more and more competitive. :(
 
Veterinary derm is competitive but not the pentultimate hard-to-get residency like it is for the RDs. They want derm because it's "easy money". Good salary but good lifestyle-- no emergencies, nobody dies, minimal drama. Same for the radiology specialties.

Vet. derm is similar but for some reason vets seem more likely to base residency decisions on other factors. Like not spending the rest of your life popping pustules on stinky dogs (no offense to you derm types).

However, one of the definite attractions for some vet. radiologists is the minimal direct client contact. Same for path, anesthesiology and some others.
 
one of the definite attractions for some vet. radiologists is the minimal direct client contact. Same for path, anesthesiology and some others.

Hurrah for lack of social skills :laugh: That's me in a nutshell. I have an incredibly hard time putting up with clients, especially the complaining/worrywart ones which rules out a lot of specialties for me (my communications classes have always been rough because I have a very short fuse, no brain/mouth filter, and am an introvert....)

A lot of what residency you go for is dependent on your own personality traits as well as your interests.
 
Does anybody have any input on cardiology residencies? I enjoy the client-veterinarian interactions (with the exception of everyone's least favorite types of clients) and would like to have ongoing relationships with my patients, so cardiology seems to be a good option. I spent some time shadowing a cardiologist in a vet teaching hospital and really liked what I saw. Is it a very competitive field?
 
DocDVMD said:
Does anybody have any input on cardiology residencies? I enjoy the client-veterinarian interactions (with the exception of everyone's least favorite types of clients) and would like to have ongoing relationships with my patients, so cardiology seems to be a good option. I spent some time shadowing a cardiologist in a vet teaching hospital and really liked what I saw. Is it a very competitive field?
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Cardiology is insanely competitive. It's almost as competitive as surgery - that's what I heard from my cardiologists. They were saying how some people do a few cardiology internships before they can get a residency. They are also planning to change the program to 4 years instead of 3 (for residency).
 
ovc2012 said:
Cardiology is insanely competitive. It's almost as competitive as surgery - that's what I heard from my cardiologists. They were saying how some people do a few cardiology internships before they can get a residency. They are also planning to change the program to 4 years instead of 3 (for residency).
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That's interesting to hear. I know 2 interns from 2 different schools who both matched for Cardio residencies having only completed a rotating internship (and not a cardio specific internship). I also know 1 intern who didn't match for Cardio residency, but still 2/3 seems good. I may have just gotten a skewed view of things.
 
Cardiology - definitely a very difficult residency to obtain. There are only 10-12 available any given year. Because it's such a small specialty (sub-specialty of ACVIM), it really depends on who you know.
Same goes for neurology - very few residencies available.
Quite a few more surgery residencies, but the applicant pool is a lot larger.
Derm and dentistry each have a handful (2-6) spots each year.
Lots of lab animal residencies although not as many people want to do it. There is a pretty good job market out there in the private industry sector if you like lab animal research.
 
Does anyone have any experience with the internship at LSU???? What should I watch out for? Any information would be very very helpful as I am starting this August!

Thanks
 
This may be a stupid question...when you're compiling your CV to apply to an internship right out of vet school, how much stuff can there really be on it? I have a one page resume I've used applying to jobs throughout college that includes the few college activities and random jobs I've had, but I assume that would be insufficient after vet school. Obviously, it's hard to work during vet school or have any very meaningful employment, you can do a few extracurricular things, but if you go to vet school right after undergrad like me then I don't feel I've really had any opportunity for a meaningful job (i.e. not waitressing/lifeguarding/something a 16 yr. old could do). What other things can be included? It may seem early to be asking, but I'd rather know now so I can get involved in things straight away rather than later when I'm applying and realizing my CV is threadbare...Is there anything I should definitely do to give me an upper hand? Like research or a specific thing over one of my breaks? It seems like that's the only time to get anything worthwhile done, which is sad because then it's not really a break anymore:( Is it unwise to just take a break and relax...should I definitely be doing something to enrich my CV?

Also, do you include jobs you had during college, such as ones at a vet clinic? I suppose it would be relevant, but I hate the feeling that the employer is going to call them fto verify and they won't remember me because it's been over 4 years since I worked there.
 
hopefulvet21 said:
This may be a stupid question...when you're compiling your CV to apply to an internship right out of vet school, how much stuff can there really be on it? I have a one page resume I've used applying to jobs throughout college that includes the few college activities and random jobs I've had, but I assume that would be insufficient after vet school. Obviously, it's hard to work during vet school or have any very meaningful employment, you can do a few extracurricular things, but if you go to vet school right after undergrad like me then I don't feel I've really had any opportunity for a meaningful job (i.e. not waitressing/lifeguarding/something a 16 yr. old could do). What other things can be included? It may seem early to be asking, but I'd rather know now so I can get involved in things straight away rather than later when I'm applying and realizing my CV is threadbare...Is there anything I should definitely do to give me an upper hand? Like research or a specific thing over one of my breaks? It seems like that's the only time to get anything worthwhile done, which is sad because then it's not really a break anymore:( Is it unwise to just take a break and relax...should I definitely be doing something to enrich my CV?

Also, do you include jobs you had during college, such as ones at a vet clinic? I suppose it would be relevant, but I hate the feeling that the employer is going to call them fto verify and they won't remember me because it's been over 4 years since I worked there.
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Hi there,

This should probably be discussed in in the pre-veterinary section but I can try my best to answer your question here. :) In terms of CV, yes, you're absolutely right. The younger you are, the less opportunity to get "excellent" experience there is - it's logical. I'm not saying that young people don't get good opportunities but as an older person, you've had more years and more chance to do so. For me, I started volunteer at a vet clinic since I was 12 in middle school and it wasn't until university that I started getting "food animal" experience and diverse other types of experience (ie: research).

Throughout university (undergrad), I've got to say that I've had the opportunity to have some pretty amazing experiences - but are they enough for internships and residencies? I don't think so. I really think that trying to get a job related to vet medicine is definitely advantageous for getting an internship - especially something pertinent to an internship you are potentially interested in (ie: wildlife). So if you were interested in being board certified in wildlife medicine, I would try to work in jobs related to wildlife and exotics.

I have no idea how the CV thing works for applying to internships & residencies...but if there is a CV included, it wouldn't hurt to write something down you did in college.
 
A lot of people in my class are doing research this summer. But, like you said, that kind of makes summer not much of a break anymore. So I decided to prioritize my mental health :) and take time to travel and also visit my family. During the school year, it is fairly easy to be active in clubs and SCAVMA, and being an officer is something you can put on your resume. There are a lot of opportunities to volunteer and be involved with many activities related to the vet school as well. Also, during the summer after junior year you will do externships (that's when we do it at UF, I'm assuming it's the same at other schools), and many internships will be more likely to take you if you externed with them. I have been told by many people at my school that letters of recommendation from clinicians are the most important aspect, followed by GPA/class rank.
 
What other things can be included?
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I have a "professional activities" section on my CV, which includes things like veterinary conferences that I've attended, national organizations that I'm a member of, etc.
 
ovc2012 said:
Hi there,

This should probably be discussed in in the pre-veterinary section but I can try my best to answer your question here. :) In terms of CV, yes, you're absolutely right.

Throughout university (undergrad), I've got to say that I've had the opportunity to have some pretty amazing experiences - but are they enough for internships and residencies? I don't think so. I really think that trying to get a job related to vet medicine is definitely advantageous for getting an internship - especially something pertinent to an internship you are potentially interested in (ie: wildlife). So if you were interested in being board certified in wildlife medicine, I would try to work in jobs related to wildlife and exotics.

I have no idea how the CV thing works for applying to internships & residencies...but if there is a CV included, it wouldn't hurt to write something down you did in college.
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I put it in this forum because I figured there would be veterinary students who have applied to internships or whose classmates have and would know more about it than pre-vet students.

Internships definitely do require a CV because if you browse through programs on virmp.org they all require a CV.

I'm not interested in wildlife really, I'm interested in specializing in small animal medicine. So, you're saying it's good to get a job related to the field...okay, but when? I have already finished undergrad, and I'm starting vet school in august, which gives me about 8 weeks off per year, and the most I could work during the year would be about 10 hours/week and it's doubtful I'd be useful to any employer with such limited availability. I have worked in a vet clinic before (obviously, or I probably wouldn't have been accepted to school), but so has everyone else and I don't think that distinguishes you from other applicants.

Quarterhorsegal, the internship coordinator at one hospital told me it would be advantageous to extern there while in school, and Edinburgh requires we do 26 weeks of clinical externships, but I feel like everyone else whose really interested is going to extern there too...so again, not really making me stand apart. :( I will definitely join a sports team or club of some sort. I guess I'm just going to try and find unique things during the summer that could add some depth to my CV...
 
StealthDog said:
I have a "professional activities" section on my CV, which includes things like veterinary conferences that I've attended, national organizations that I'm a member of, etc.
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excellent, thank you!
 
At one of our internship talks we were basically told not to worry about the CV. They are all pretty much the same and unless you happen to have some really unique experience don't get much thought (the example given was find a cure for cancer!). The letters of rec from your clinical year are much more important. So I wouldn't stress out too much about not having a "good enough" CV and concentrate on doing decent (B or As) in your classes and well in clinical year.

Off to take our last final of the year!
 
Angelo84 said:
At one of our internship talks we were basically told not to worry about the CV. They are all pretty much the same and unless you happen to have some really unique experience don't get much thought (the example given was find a cure for cancer!). The letters of rec from your clinical year are much more important. So I wouldn't stress out too much about not having a "good enough" CV and concentrate on doing decent (B or As) in your classes and well in clinical year.

Off to take our last final of the year!
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Do they look at particular years more heavily than others? For example, would they look at 3rd year more heavily than 1st year because it's more clinical based? Or do they look at everything equally starting from your previous undergraduate/graduate/university degrees?
 
They look at your vet school GPA (cumulative) and class rank. I don't think they even ask for undergrad transcripts.
 
I have worked in a vet clinic before (obviously, or I probably wouldn't have been accepted to school), but so has everyone else and I don't think that distinguishes you from other applicants.
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It sounds like from other posters that what will distinguish you from other applicants is the LOR that you get from that job/externship. Many internships require an externship at the same clinic (at least for equine), just so the Drs/staff get to know you and make sure you're the type of person they want to have hanging around for a year. Obviously, if you are lazy or do a crummy job at your job, that is a mark against you--but if you're the best gosh darned assistant/tech they've ever had, hopefully you'll get a LOR stating that.
 
Angelo84 said:
They look at your vet school GPA (cumulative) and class rank. I don't think they even ask for undergrad transcripts.
Click to expand...

My academic residency asked for all undergrad and vet school transcripts.
 
chris03333 said:
My academic residency asked for all undergrad and vet school transcripts.
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Good lord. What if your undergrad GPA is considerably lower than your vet school GPA? Certainly they'd put more weight on the vet school GPA...right?!

If my (*#$&*(&#$ undergrad GPA comes back to haunt me ONE MORE #$#@$# TIME...... you have GOT to be kidding.
 
I'm sure more weight is put on vet school, especially if you did considerably better than undergrad... but this is just a guess, in no way am I qualified to say this is fact.

But this is crazy! I definitely want to do an internship and residency (probably going the surgery route) and once again a GPA is going to be a factor... man oh man, when will GPA not matter any more lol. I knwo at this level its more than GPA, but seriously! lol

Bring on vet school! and hopefully an intership and residency to follow haha
 
Who should you usually ask for a LOR? I know faculty member(s) is an obvious choice, but if you haven't worked for a vet in years (as would be the case for me if I applied right after vet school), is it okay to have all 3 from faculty?

Ben and Me, you said you might ask a vet you externed with for a letter...but aren't externships typically only a few weeks? That doesn't seem long enough to get a strong LOR...

Gee, I'm glad I kept up this last semester of college and didn't let my GPA plummet. I knew my transcript would be required at some time later on. My dad just applied for a new job that asked for his college transcript, even with his decades of experience.
 
I've heard that some residencies require GRE scores--I'm guessing it's some of the more competitive ones, so they have one more way to weed people out. Apparently there is a time limit on getting official score reports, so it might be a good idea to get some of those before that deadline passes. Retaking the GRE doesn't sound like much fun!
 
The majority of internships and residencies do not require your undergraduate transcripts. I matched to an academic internship this year, and none of the programs i applied to asked for undergrad transcripts (and I applied to both academic and private practice internships). None of the programs requested GRE scores.

LORs typically come from clinical faculty at your veterinary school. This is important when you plan your clinical rotations... you want to rotate through the service before you have to apply to the match. So, if you want a small animal internship, you should try and take your small animal medicine rotation in September (or before December anyways) so faculty have the opportunity to write the letters. If you want an academic internship, you're best to have letters from academic faculty members. If you want a private practice internship, then you are probably OK having a letter from a veterinarian in practice that you have worked closely with than can comment on your clinical aptitude. Most programs still want to see letters from your clinical instructors during 4th year.

From my experience, and from what I'm told, your LORs are THE most important factor in what determines whether you get an internship or not. Also, dont discount word of mouth... i know for a fact that each institution I applied to placed a call to someone they knew at my college to get their opinion, and in many cases this wasn't the people that were writing my LORs. So keep this in mind.
 
I've also never heard of internship and residency programs looking at undergraduate transcripts but obviously some do. The only residency programs I've heard of that require GRE are those that require the resident to do an MS or PhD. Again there may be exceptions I'm not aware of.

IMO, at least 2 or your LORs for internships should be from clinical faculty. Not interns/residents and not administrators like deans. The 3rd could be from a veterinarian in private practice you worked with, a researcher you worked with, or something like that.

For competitive academic internships, recommendations (LORs and others) are about equal with GPA/class rank. The reality is they both need to be good. Excellent LORs can compensate for lower GPA somewhat but only to some degree. If you have great recommendations but lousy GPA the reality is there's going to someone with great recommendations and a good GPA. Who would you pick?
 
I was talking with an equine vet today and she agreed that LORs are the most important factor in picking interns. She also said though that it's better if the letter is from someone they know. She said if it's from someone they don't know, they sort of wonder and have to read between the lines. Since I'm going to school in Edinburgh fewer faculty members are going to have connections over here...will I have a chance at an internship I don't have a connection with? I will certainly try to extern at my top choices, but there may not be enough weeks (or travel money) to extern everywhere. Is the "who you know" aspect just important in the equine field? I am really starting to like equine practice, but I definitely don't have 'connections,' making me lean away from it.
 
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