Venting about MDs vs. Pharmacists

[ufpsu26]

I just want to vent for a second. I'm so sick of MD's taking the credit for everything about medicine. I'm sick of hearing them on the news talking about drug treatments and I'm sick of pharmacists not getting the respect they deserve when it comes to drug treatments. And I hate how pharmacists can get blamed for the stupid mistakes doctors make, yet some doctors totally disregard the pharmacists advice.

And another thing, Dipiro came and talked to our class and presented all these studies about how pharmacists add value to the acute care setting...Well DUH!!!... and noone seems to notice! Every pharmacist knows, but hospital administrators dont seem to, and definietly not the general public. Ask a lay person what a pharmacist does and you'll get the same answer everytime, they dispense meds. Ask them what an MD does, and you'll get a more insightful, well rounded answer. Where the heck are our organizations like ASHP? There needs to be MORE PR efforts. I almost feel like I should have gone to medical school instead. I feel a little bit better

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[UES Girl]

I just want to vent for a second. I'm so sick of MD's taking the credit for everything about medicine. I'm sick of hearing them on the news talking about drug treatments and I'm sick of pharmacists not getting the respect they deserve when it comes to drug treatments. And I hate how pharmacists can get blamed for the stupid mistakes doctors make, yet some doctors totally disregard the pharmacists advice.

And another thing, Dipiro came and talked to our class and presented all these studies about how pharmacists add value to the acute care setting...Well DUH!!!... and noone seems to notice! Every pharmacist knows, but hospital administrators dont seem to, and definietly not the general public. Ask a lay person what a pharmacist does and you'll get the same answer everytime, they dispense meds. Ask them what an MD does, and you'll get a more insightful, well rounded answer. Where the heck are our organizations like ASHP? There needs to be MORE PR efforts. I almost feel like I should have gone to medical school instead. I feel a little bit better

Gallup's survey from last year finds that pharmacists are far greater trusted by the public than medical doctors if it makes you feel any better.

 

[pharmschooler]

I think it's important to realize the role the pharmacist plays in most patients' eyes before studying to become a pharmacist.

Regardless of what great work goes on in the pharmacy, I don't think the pharmacist will ever be the hero in the patient's eyes. If you want to be the hero, you've got to be providing direct care, it seems (see all tv dramas based on nurses and doctors).

Can you see a tv drama based on pharmacists? I just don't see it happening, ever. That's what it would take to make pharmacists the healthcare hero, in patients' eyes. Instead, you have the lone wolf evil pharmacist character in shows like Desperate Housewives...

 

[WVUPharm2007]

If you are a narcissist, don't be a pharmacist.

It's that simple.

You won't be thanked. The patient won't know it was you that helped them with a reco. The public thinks we just count by 5s.

Is what it is. Embrace the difference you can make and leave all of that prestige-seeking bull**** at the door.

 

[universalcynic]

Is what it is. Embrace the difference you can make and leave all of that prestige-seeking bull**** at the door.

 

[npage148]

I'll be happy when our urgent care clinic gets their doctors to actually sign the script instead of laser printing it at the bottom (not valid in NY). I call on EVERYONE and it's kinda fun calling to verify an Amox script and then explaining to the doctor that "you are wasting his time" becasue he's too stupid/lazy/egotistical to take the time to write his name on a piece of paper. I don't care that no other pharmacy has no problem with their scripts, I take issue with the laziness and the "I'm above it all" complex.

 

[PharmaTope]

I just want to vent for a second. I'm so sick of MD's taking the credit for everything about medicine. I'm sick of hearing them on the news talking about drug treatments and I'm sick of pharmacists not getting the respect they deserve when it comes to drug treatments. And I hate how pharmacists can get blamed for the stupid mistakes doctors make, yet some doctors totally disregard the pharmacists advice.

And another thing, Dipiro came and talked to our class and presented all these studies about how pharmacists add value to the acute care setting...Well DUH!!!... and noone seems to notice! Every pharmacist knows, but hospital administrators dont seem to, and definietly not the general public. Ask a lay person what a pharmacist does and you'll get the same answer everytime, they dispense meds. Ask them what an MD does, and you'll get a more insightful, well rounded answer. Where the heck are our organizations like ASHP? There needs to be MORE PR efforts. I almost feel like I should have gone to medical school instead. I feel a little bit better

well it comes down to $$$. the hospital looks at the pharmacy department as a "service" department only that is there only because they are required to (seriously, talk with some administrators, it will blow your mind). if you arent able to bring money into the hospital, they do not see a big value in you.

If you are a narcissist, don't be a pharmacist.

It's that simple.

You won't be thanked. The patient won't know it was you that helped them with a reco. The public thinks we just count by 5s.

Is what it is. Embrace the difference you can make and leave all of that prestige-seeking bull**** at the door.

very true. the general public thinks pharmacists generally go to community college and after 2 years can go to CVS and count by 5.

 

[rph3664]

if you arent able to bring money into the hospital, they do not see a big value in you.

We once had a heart surgeon here who was making patients crash so he could rescue them, and for quite a while, administration looked the other way because he was bringing so much money into the facility - until word got out in the community that there was a doctor who was killing people, and people were taking their heart surgery elsewhere.

And this is a hospital that once employed a medical serial killer! I'll tell you who it was if you PM me.

BTW, if you think pharmacists get no respect, try being a nurse, and THEY are on the front lines.

 

[Sparda29]

If you want to be the superstar of the medical team, become a physician.
If you want to be the critical component on the team that does most of the rough grinding, become a nurse.
If you want to be the specialist player on the team that does the little things that no one notices but matters a lot, become a pharmacist/physical therapist/social worker.

 

[PharmD1988]

Gallup's survey from last year finds that pharmacists are far greater trusted by the public than medical doctors if it makes you feel any better.

I heard the Gallup Poll said 67% of patients said they trust a pharmacist which was more than physicians but this was back in 2004.

do you happen to the actual file to last years' article? I also got some beef with some pre-med/current med students haha

 

[MindOverMatter]

I'm sure in a hospital setting the patients have no idea of the role that pharmacists play in their care. However, in the retail world, we actually have direct contact with them, and can reinforce important issues such as compliance, side effects, interactions, proper administration, etc. These issues create a sense of trust in the patient, and most of them are very grateful for even just one minute of direct attention. Granted, if you work for a big chain, you don't have time to do all that, but where I'm at I feel that most of my patients admire and respect the work that we do.

 

[rxlea]

As long as companies like CVS/Walgreens are allowed to turn our profession into crap, there is not much we can do beyond informing people about what a pharmacist can do. That means that average Joe pharmacist has to give a crap about the perception of the patients... And when average Joe pharmacist is forced to check scripts in 4 seconds, answer the phone in 2 rings, and all the other tasks people complain about on this forum, I just don't see that happening. Retail chains employ the most pharmacists. They are the front lines of our profession. You're right. The public knows squat about what a pharmacist is trained to do and what they know. But, it is up to us to change that, don't you think? Instead of coming on a forum and bitching about how patients don't give respect or whatever- if you can't take it that you will have "battles" with docs (and nurses) or you can't take it that the public sees you as a pill slinger until you tell/show them otherwise, then go somewhere else. I am tired of all this negativity. Maybe I am an idealist. Maybe I am one of those students that the pharmacists laugh at because I feel like we can truly make a difference... I don't know. I just think that we can change our profession if we work together and educate patients on how we can help them. Help us help them, so to speak. This is why I think all the health fairs, brown bags, etc are a really great thing for the colleges of pharmacy to be doing. I get inspired by what everyone is doing at the various colleges to make a difference in the community and help patients. If we go in with a positive attitude like that (instead of, "damnit gimme the respect I deserve"), I think we can change the perception of the public over time. I have seen it happen before, a few patients at a time.

 

[DYSF777]

I prefer saving lives without my ego being stroked.

 

[ufpsu26]

Instead of coming on a forum and bitching about how patients don't give respect or whatever- if you can't take it that you will have "battles" with docs (and nurses) or you can't take it that the public sees you as a pill slinger until you tell/show them otherwise, then go somewhere else. I am tired of all this negativity. Maybe I am an idealist. Maybe I am one of those students that the pharmacists laugh at because I feel like we can truly make a difference... I don't know.

I'm sorry that you took this as BS and bitching. Although I do not want ANY of the credit, hell I don't plan on working as a pharmacist anyway but I'm just the type of person that is the 1st to give credit where credit is due. I feel so bad for the pharmacists that bust their asses day in and day to save lives. I myself could care less about being recognized...it's not my thing, but I feel that pharmacists deserve it. When legistatures are trying to enact laws giving PAs the authority to dispense, when Dr's offices start to dispense, where does that leave the pharmacists? Your complacent attitude is exactly what is wrong with the profession. When your professor, who teaches at the Med school as well as the Pharmacy School, tells your class that you are smarter than the med students...I just know all of us know more about medicine than most Dr.'s. If you don't fight for your profession, NOONE will.

 

[UES Girl]

Did you read our (Accreditation council + 6 other orgs) reply to AMA's scope of practice series ? Given the weakness of the language and the logistics, it's obvious - no one fights for our profession, not even the profession itself.

 

[UES Girl]

I heard the Gallup Poll said 67% of patients said they trust a pharmacist which was more than physicians but this was back in 2004.

do you happen to the actual file to last years' article? I also got some beef with some pre-med/current med students haha

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145043/nurses-top-honesty-ethics-list-11-year.aspx

Pharmacists ranked 3rd, medical doctors 5th ! This is a cause for a dancing banana.

 

[ufpsu26]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145043/nurses-top-honesty-ethics-list-11-year.aspx

Pharmacists ranked 3rd, medical doctors 5th ! This is a cause for a dancing banana.

 

[rxlea]

I'm sorry that you took this as BS and bitching. Although I do not want ANY of the credit, hell I don't plan on working as a pharmacist anyway but I'm just the type of person that is the 1st to give credit where credit is due. I feel so bad for the pharmacists that bust their asses day in and day to save lives. I myself could care less about being recognized...it's not my thing, but I feel that pharmacists deserve it. When legistatures are trying to enact laws giving PAs the authority to dispense, when Dr's offices start to dispense, where does that leave the pharmacists? Your complacent attitude is exactly what is wrong with the profession. When your professor, who teaches at the Med school as well as the Pharmacy School, tells your class that you are smarter than the med students...I just know all of us know more about medicine than most Dr.'s. If you don't fight for your profession, NOONE will.

I am not complacent. You need to re-read what I wrote. The problem is, is that there is a lot of talk and not enough walk. So, what are you going to do, eh? I'm pretty sure my colleagues and I lobbied the **** out of the AZ legislature to try and have prescribing rights for pharmacists relaxed in addition to getting immunization "rights" for students so we can immunize adults and children. It worked. We got what we wanted. And you better believe I called/wrote those in my district. What are you going to do with your "venting"? And what the hell do you mean with your last comment about us knowing more than med students??? wtf are you even saying there? was that a sarcasm fail or what?

and just so we are clear.... people can do plenty but, as I mentioned, companies like CVS/Walgreens force our profession into a very bad direction. I am asking you, what control do pharmacists have over that? Refusing to work there? I can't imagine people leaving their jobs en masse because they don't agree with what these companies are doing... so what do you propose we do?

As for the dispensing bill in Texas, I think there are plenty of people lobbying against that. As chebs pointed out, there was a formal response to the AMA's scope of practice series. What more do you propose we do? And, if you really have the energy for this, why don't you start something?

 

[rph3664]

hell I don't plan on working as a pharmacist

So, why are you in pharmacy school?

 

[owlegrad]

As long as companies like CVS/Walgreens are allowed to turn our profession into crap, there is not much we can do beyond informing people about what a pharmacist can do.

and just so we are clear.... people can do plenty but, as I mentioned, companies like CVS/Walgreens force our profession into a very bad direction.

Have you any experience with either company? Not a day goes by where myself or the pharmacist doesn't take the time to help patients. With BP, diabetes, OTC recommendations, etc. This Bullh*** about if you work at a chain you can't help people is just that - BS. I get sick of reading about it on SDN. It's just not true - at least not always.

I won't argue with a pharmacist who says that they don't have time to help patients - I am sure that is some people's experience and I am sure it happens. But I know we always take the time to answer questions, make recommendations, and do lots of other things to help people. It's a matter of prioritizes. Who cares if the next person has to wait an extra 10 minutes? If someone needs your help, you help then. It has nothing to do with working at a chain. I don't mean to come after you personally, I just feel like we keep repeating that mantra here to the point where we don't even question it anymore - chains are bad, independents good. You don't have to sacrifice your patients to work for a chain. At least not in my experience with my pharmacists/DM/Sup. YMMV of course.

 

[rxlea]

Have you any experience with either company? Not a day goes by where myself or the pharmacist doesn't take the time to help patients. With BP, diabetes, OTC recommendations, etc. This Bullh*** about if you work at a chain you can't help people is just that - BS. I get sick of reading about it on SDN. It's just not true - at least not always.

I won't argue with a pharmacist who says that they don't have time to help patients - I am sure that is some people's experience and I am sure it happens. But I know we always take the time to answer questions, make recommendations, and do lots of other things to help people. It's a matter of prioritizes. Who cares if the next person has to wait an extra 10 minutes? If someone needs your help, you help then. It has nothing to do with working at a chain. I don't mean to come after you personally, I just feel like we keep repeating that mantra here to the point where we don't even question it anymore - chains are bad, independents good. You don't have to sacrifice your patients to work for a chain. At least not in my experience with my pharmacists/DM/Sup. YMMV of course.

We are saying the same thing. I agree with you. What I am saying is that you can't force a pharmacist to do the things you are suggesting if they aren't into it. We are saying the same thing but in different ways.
And to answer your question, I worked for Osco and jumped ship when they were bought out by CVS. But, I also hear classmates experiences and the experiences of other pharmacists. I work with a pharmacist who also works at Walgreens.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Have you any experience with either company? Not a day goes by where myself or the pharmacist doesn't take the time to help patients. With BP, diabetes, OTC recommendations, etc. This Bullh*** about if you work at a chain you can't help people is just that - BS. I get sick of reading about it on SDN. It's just not true - at least not always.

I won't argue with a pharmacist who says that they don't have time to help patients - I am sure that is some people's experience and I am sure it happens. But I know we always take the time to answer questions, make recommendations, and do lots of other things to help people. It's a matter of prioritizes. Who cares if the next person has to wait an extra 10 minutes? If someone needs your help, you help then. It has nothing to do with working at a chain. I don't mean to come after you personally, I just feel like we keep repeating that mantra here to the point where we don't even question it anymore - chains are bad, independents good. You don't have to sacrifice your patients to work for a chain. At least not in my experience with my pharmacists/DM/Sup. YMMV of course.

Great post.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Have you any experience with either company? Not a day goes by where myself or the pharmacist doesn't take the time to help patients. With BP, diabetes, OTC recommendations, etc. This Bullh*** about if you work at a chain you can't help people is just that - BS. I get sick of reading about it on SDN. It's just not true - at least not always.

I won't argue with a pharmacist who says that they don't have time to help patients - I am sure that is some people's experience and I am sure it happens. But I know we always take the time to answer questions, make recommendations, and do lots of other things to help people. It's a matter of prioritizes. Who cares if the next person has to wait an extra 10 minutes? If someone needs your help, you help then. It has nothing to do with working at a chain. I don't mean to come after you personally, I just feel like we keep repeating that mantra here to the point where we don't even question it anymore - chains are bad, independents good. You don't have to sacrifice your patients to work for a chain. At least not in my experience with my pharmacists/DM/Sup. YMMV of course.

It's what they are fed in pharmacy school. Alll of the professors are academics that don't appreciate the true community pharmacist. They talk about retail as if it is the chosen profession of the lazy and stupid. That used to piss me the hell off even when I was looking at hospital jobs after graduation.

But this thread just oozes with jealousy and the pain from the unfulfilled narcissism of the Facebook generation. I know I jokingly post as if I'm a megalomaniac, but a person like that will be miserable in pharmacy. The public will never grant you the intellectual credit they grant physicians. It isn't going to happen. And there is nothing wrong with being a support figure that is the master of drug therapy. You are part of a medical team. Unseen, unheard. It's what you do. Who cares about "getting credit."

What is hard for some to accept is that there really isn't anything wrong with this. Like I've posted several times in the past - I'm rather embarrassed at how narcissistic our generation is. And being that our profession is a noble one - we are soldiers - its easy to see how a lack of overt recognition can bruise egos.

I know I've helped countless patience with my expertise. I've made countless physicians not commit an error. In some cases, terrible errors ("The dose of enalaprilat isn't 25mg IV?!?! It's what they take at home!"). In some cases I've suggest and have seen suggestions put into practice. Does the patient call me and say, "Oh, superstar genius pharmacist, you helped me! Thanks!" No, of course not. (Well, actually, that type of thing DOES happen in retail, but its best to play it off with humility.)

Focusing your career on such things is fruitless. If you want recognition and to pad your ego, don't be a pharmacist.

 

[owlegrad]

(Well, actually, that type of thing DOES happen in retail.)

Focusing your career on such things is fruitless. If you want recognition and to pad your ego, don't be a pharmacist.

I didn't go into pharmacy to have my ego stroked, but I couldn't agree more with these statements. Much of your hard work goes unnoticed or unapprehiated - but on SDN you would think that EVERY customer would just as soon piss on your grave as they would say thanks. It's ridiculous, many patients love their neighborhood pharmacist, and not a day goes by we don't get thanked by at least a few patients on what we do for them. Alright I think I got most of this ranting out of my system now.

EDIT: I made a huge error of omission in my original post. Hopefully no one quotes it.

 

[owlegrad]

We are saying the same thing. I agree with you. What I am saying is that you can't force a pharmacist to do the things you are suggesting if they aren't into it. We are saying the same thing but in different ways.
And to answer your question, I worked for Osco and jumped ship when they were bought out by CVS. But, I also hear classmates experiences and the experiences of other pharmacists. I work with a pharmacist who also works at Walgreens.

Ah, sorry I miss understood your posts. I agree you can't MAKE a pharmacist care, and there are plenty who don't. I wasn't trying to address that at all.

I simply disagree that chains are ruining the profession, that is all.

Great post.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I didn't go into pharmacy to have my ego stroked, but I couldn't agree more with these statements. Much of your hard work goes unnoticed or unapprehiated - but on SDN you would think that EVERY customer would just as soon piss on your grave as they would say thanks. It's ridiculous, many patients love their neighborhood pharmacist, and not a day goes by we don't get thanked by at least a few patients on what we do for them. Alright I think I got most of this ranting out of my system now.

This is true. As with most things, the bad gets beaten to death...the good, ignored.

 

[delano2000]

It's what they are fed in pharmacy school. Alll of the professors are academics that don't appreciate the true community pharmacist. They talk about retail as if it is the chosen profession of the lazy and stupid. That used to piss me the hell off even when I was looking at hospital jobs after graduation.

But this thread just oozes with jealousy and the pain from the unfulfilled narcissism of the Facebook generation. I know I jokingly post as if I'm a megalomaniac, but a person like that will be miserable in pharmacy. The public will never grant you the intellectual credit they grant physicians. It isn't going to happen. And there is nothing wrong with being a support figure that is the master of drug therapy. You are part of a medical team. Unseen, unheard. It's what you do. Who cares about "getting credit."

What is hard for some to accept is that there really isn't anything wrong with this. Like I've posted several times in the past - I'm rather embarrassed at how narcissistic our generation is. And being that our profession is a noble one - we are soldiers - its easy to see how a lack of overt recognition can bruise egos.

I know I've helped countless patience with my expertise. I've made countless physicians not commit an error. In some cases, terrible errors ("The dose of enalaprilat isn't 25mg IV?!?! It's what they take at home!"). In some cases I've suggest and have seen suggestions put into practice. Does the patient call me and say, "Oh, superstar genius pharmacist, you helped me! Thanks!" No, of course not. (Well, actually, that type of thing DOES happen in retail, but its best to play it off with humility.)

Focusing your career on such things is fruitless. If you want recognition and to pad your ego, don't be a pharmacist.

Something like this did happen at one of the pharmacies close to where I used to live. The RPh helped a woman who OD'd on vicodin and after she got discharged from the hospital, she personally came by the pharmacy with goodies to thank the pharmacist and staff.

 

[PharmaTope]

Did you read our (Accreditation council + 6 other orgs) reply to AMA's scope of practice series ? Given the weakness of the language and the logistics, it's obvious - no one fights for our profession, not even the profession itself.

i have to agree with you. not just that, collectively pharmacists do not stick together as other professions do. hence the same things that were talked about for years have still not made any leeway.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145043/nurses-top-honesty-ethics-list-11-year.aspx

Pharmacists ranked 3rd, medical doctors 5th ! This is a cause for a dancing banana.

lol, who really places value on these polls anyways? isnt there a large number of americans that think Obama is a muslim (according to polls)?

1st 2nd 3rd whatever, who cares if you are thought to be the most honest. means nothing to me.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

I won't argue with a pharmacist who says that they don't have time to help patients - I am sure that is some people's experience and I am sure it happens. But I know we always take the time to answer questions, make recommendations, and do lots of other things to help people. It's a matter of prioritizes. Who cares if the next person has to wait an extra 10 minutes? If someone needs your help, you help then. It has nothing to do with working at a chain. I don't mean to come after you personally, I just feel like we keep repeating that mantra here to the point where we don't even question it anymore - chains are bad, independents good. You don't have to sacrifice your patients to work for a chain. At least not in my experience with my pharmacists/DM/Sup. YMMV of course.

QFT

 

[delano2000]

QFT

What's QFT???

 

[pharaday]

What's QFT???

Quoted for truth

 

[owlegrad]

What's QFT???

QFT

 

[delano2000]

Quoted for truth

QFT

Well don't I feel stupid. Thanks.

 

[StevePerry]

If you are a narcissist, don't be a pharmacist.

Don King ladies and gentleman

 

[rxlea]

What annoys me is that people think "clinical" care can't happen in retail/community. I've posted about this before.

We can agree to disagree about the companies ruining the profession- but my point is that these companies just want pharmacists to do more and more, with less staff, and I really think that can cut quality out of patient care depending on the circumstances. That's my main point. And I agree that it needs to change... Some of the working conditions I have heard of are just outright terrible and that's bad for our profession. It's not the rphs and techs on the front lines fault, either. They just want to keep their jobs.

 

[ufpsu26]

So, why are you in pharmacy school?

I work for as a manger for pharma co. in regulatory/medical affairs. They are paying for me to go to pharmacy school. I try and get PharmDs hired but the execs don't think that pharmDs comand the respect from MDs, so they want DO's and MDs only...and judgin by the responses I guess I kinda agree.

 

[UES Girl]

I work for as a manger for pharma co. in regulatory/medical affairs. They are paying for me to go to pharmacy school. I try and get PharmDs hired but the execs don't think that pharmDs comand the respect from MDs, so they want DO's and MDs only...and judgin by the responses I guess I kinda agree.

What they need to get respect and extensive response from MDs are ultra hot Pharm.Ds, of which we have plenty, to get their attention and grab the bull by its horns. You guys have any openings in the nearby future ?

 

[ufpsu26]

What they need to get respect and extensive response from MDs are ultra hot Pharm.Ds, of which we have plenty, to get their attention and grab the bull by its horns. You guys have any openings in the nearby future ?

LMAO! I'm part-time right now- so they won't take me seriouslyn anymore when I refer people...but yeah, I'll keep your contact on here!!! MSL's are in high demand...although our company only wants DOs and MDs, so stupid! I'm trying to change that.

 

[Old Timer]

I really think you are over generalizing a lot things in this thread. There have always been doctors who think they know everything. They think that pharmacists should do what they say and leave them alone. Their ranks are shrinking every day. Most doctors out there realize the value of pharmacists, especially when they save their ass on a regular basis.

Pharmacists are part of the patient's health care team. The doctor is still the leader of the team. I didn't go to school to get acclaim. If I wanted that kind of attention, I would have gone to Hollywood.

I have been working in pharmacy since 1976 and got my license in 1983. People's attitude is about the same. Back then pharmacists were at the top of the Gallup Poll and there they remain. Many times number one, always ahead of physicians and never out of the top five. It's been pretty consistent. Back when I was in school working at the local independent, it was me and a pharmacist on a Saturday afternoon. It always got busy with deliveries right before we closed at 6PM. A guy comes in to get 12 Erythromycin 250mg and is told the wait would be 10-15 minutes. He had a serious fit and told the pharmacist that it's ridiculous that it takes 10-15 minutes to put 12 pills in a bottle. So the pharmacist put the 12 pills in a bottle walked over to the counter and slammed the pills down in front of the patient saying x$ (I don't remember the price). Realizing there was no label with instructions and no insurance billing, the a-hole retreated. This all you do is count and pour is an image problem that has been with pharmacy since the death of compounding, when pharmacists actually made all of the prescriptions they dispensed.

The problem pharmacy has dates back to the 50's & 60's. This is when there was no PBM's and insurance was between the patient and the insurance company. Pharmacists gave their knowledge away for free. If you needed help, you went to the DOC at the corner drug store. They could charge whatever they wanted and based it on the service provided. Pharmacists would never think of charging for a consultation, after all you sold them something, so what's the big deal. This model has not changed. It's not the chains that did this, it's way bigger than that. It's a complete revolution in the delivery of health care.

 

[Sparda29]

i really think you are over generalizing a lot things in this thread. There have always been doctors who think they know everything. They think that pharmacists should do what they say and leave them alone. Their ranks are shrinking every day. Most doctors out there realize the value of pharmacists, especially when they save their ass on a regular basis.

Pharmacists are part of the patient's health care team. The doctor is still the leader of the team. I didn't go to school to get acclaim. If i wanted that kind of attention, i would have gone to hollywood.

I have been working in pharmacy since 1976 and got my license in 1983. People's attitude is about the same. Back then pharmacists were at the top of the gallup poll and there they remain. Many times number one, always ahead of physicians and never out of the top five. It's been pretty consistent. Back when i was in school working at the local independent, it was me and a pharmacist on a saturday afternoon. It always got busy with deliveries right before we closed at 6pm. A guy comes in to get 12 erythromycin 250mg and is told the wait would be 10-15 minutes. He had a serious fit and told the pharmacist that it's ridiculous that it takes 10-15 minutes to put 12 pills in a bottle. So the pharmacist put the 12 pills in a bottle walked over to the counter and slammed the pills down in front of the patient saying x$ (i don't remember the price). Realizing there was no label with instructions and no insurance billing, the a-hole retreated. This all you do is count and pour is an image problem that has been with pharmacy since the death of compounding, when pharmacists actually made all of the prescriptions they dispensed.

The problem pharmacy has dates back to the 50's & 60's. This is when there was no pbm's and insurance was between the patient and the insurance company. Pharmacists gave their knowledge away for free. If you needed help, you went to the doc at the corner drug store. They could charge whatever they wanted and based it on the service provided. Pharmacists would never think of charging for a consultation, after all you sold them something, so what's the big deal. This model has not changed. It's not the chains that did this, it's way bigger than that. It's a complete revolution in the delivery of health care.

+1

 

[karizma098]

this stuff gets so old.

if you want to save lives, get prestige, or be the 'indispensible' member of the team, don't be a pharmacist. If you don't want to work your A** off until your 30, work 60 hours a week, lose all your hair and grow a belly - and deal with paperwork and bs from insurance companies all day long, don't be a physician.

There is no utopia folks. news channels consult doctors because they are the specialists when it comes to pathology/diagnosis/treatment. If they have a drug question, or are researching medication development, 9/10 they will go to a PhD pharmacologist / pharmD pharmacist.


everyone has a role, but everyone can't be the leader. too many chefs in the kitchen spoils the broth.

( p.s. - i'm sorry, but i really don't think pharmacists save lives ( to one of the above posters ) )

 

[karizma098]

I prefer saving lives without my ego being stroked.

i don't think you need to worry about either.

as far as ego stroking goes - the current generation of residents and young doctors aren't really cut from the same mold. the paternal model of medicine and the physician being the be all and end all are over. most of us are overworked, bitter, and just want to go home and spend time with our families; i could give a flying piece of poo about my ego, as would most of my colleagues.

 

[rxlea]

Pharmacists save lives all the time... I've seen it with my own eyes... So that statement is full of ****.

EDIT: unless your only definiton of "saving lives" is using the shock paddles or doing a surgery.

Pharmacists do all sorts of interventions. They are patient advocates. I have seen some life saving interventions and adjustments to therapy. In retail, I've seen pharmacists probe patients with good questions which resulted in them being sent to the ER. Family practice docs even called the pharmacy back to say "hey, thanks for saving my patient."

So, really? Your ego is in check? To come and make a statement like that makes me think not...

 

[karizma098]

Pharmacists save lives all the time... I've seen it with my own eyes... So that statement is full of ****.

Sure, can you tell me how you're trained to save a life? and i'm not talking about CPR or the heimlech or something of this sort, but what in your graduate training has prepared you to save a life of someone in cardiac arrest, with a pneumothorax, shock, brain hemorrhage, etc?

 

[karizma098]

Pharmacists save lives all the time... I've seen it with my own eyes... So that statement is full of ****.

EDIT: unless your only definiton of "saving lives" is using the shock paddles or doing a surgery.

Pharmacists do all sorts of interventions. They are a patient advocate. I have seen some life saving interventions and adjustments to therapy. In retail, I've seen pharmacists probe patients with good questions which resulted in them being sent to the ER. Family practice docs even called the pharmacy back to say "hey, thanks for saving my patient."

So, really? Your ego is in check? To come and make a statement like that makes me think not...

I don't think it's egotistical to say 'saving lives' isnt in the job description of a pharmacist. Sending someone to the ER is fantastic, and i agree that pharmacists make great adjustments to medication in the hospital, ( All the time, actually ) - but do these often ( or in my experience, ever ) result in saving a patient from death? no. Sending a patient to the ER is not the same as being able to operate on them, understand what needs to be done to actually save their life beyond calling 911 , or do a simple tracheostomy. last time i checked, pharmacists weren't doing these.

 

[DYSF777]

and i'm not talking about CPR or the heimlech or something of this sort, but what in your graduate training has prepared you to save a life of someone in cardiac arrest, with a pneumothorax, shock, brain hemorrhage, etc?

Well if that is the only way to save a life then you win...

 

[rxlea]

Lulz... Let him win. Saving lives isn't just doing those procedures. But, if you can't think beyond that, that's fine. We all have our role and I appeciate that you appreciate pharmacists because some of the a-holes that come through here don't. Let's leave it at that. you win

 

[Sparda29]

Lulz... Let him win. Saving lives isn't just doing those procedures. But, if you can't think beyond that, that's fine. We all have our role and I appeciate that you appreciate pharmacists because some of the a-holes that come through here don't. Let's leave it at that. you win

Where's the post from Old Timer about the old lady who had CHF?

 

[whatbout2morrow]

I don't think it's egotistical to say 'saving lives' isnt in the job description of a pharmacist. Sending someone to the ER is fantastic, and i agree that pharmacists make great adjustments to medication in the hospital, ( All the time, actually ) - but do these often ( or in my experience, ever ) result in saving a patient from death? no. Sending a patient to the ER is not the same as being able to operate on them, understand what needs to be done to actually save their life beyond calling 911 , or do a simple tracheostomy. last time i checked, pharmacists weren't doing these.

If ever, while making a split second decision to save a life, you unwittingly order something that can potentially cause a fatal drug interaction in your patient, pray that the pharmacist verifying your orders is knowledgeable enough to catch the mistake and "save" the patient's life.

 

[DYSF777]

This is a good read if anyone is interested on how pharmacy "services save a significant number of lives in our nation’s hospitals."

Read More: http://pharmacotherapyjournal.org/doi/abs/10.1592/phco.19.8.556.31531?journalCode=phco