UTSW (Full Tuition) vs UCSF vs WashU with a SO twist

[MercifulCamper]

EDIT: I appreciate all the insight! I noticed many of the comments are centered around finances and just wanted to be transparent about being from a privileged background and having most (if not all) of med school covered by my parents. My partner is from a low SES background, so we will still be heavily weighing different scholarship/financial aid offers, but I wanted to emphasize that this is less of a make-or-break for me.

As the cycle has come to an end I am so grateful to be in the position that I was accepted to Baylor, UTSW, UCSF, and Yale among others. I have narrowed down my 3 schools already to Yale, UTSW, and UCSF that I will be going into April 15th with. I am thinking of eventually going into oncology so would be going into internal medicine after medical school. Could also be convinced to do Neurology (passionate about muscular dystrophy research). I am also from Texas but have been living on the East Coast for the better part of 7 years now. I am not a fan of this weather but willing to suffer if need be during residency/medical school but would like to eventually return to Texas for my fellowship.

To add to the complexity of this X vs Y all my school considerations are heavily influenced by being near or going to the same school as my partner @beansncheese who received acceptances at: Harvard (near full COA - with REACH scholarship), Columbia, JHU, Stanford (likely to be near full COA), UTSW (Full COA), Baylor, among others.

I imagine @beansncheese may post their own X vs Y in the future but I would like some perspective on what I should be considering that I may not already as I ponder for the next month and a half. We would likely do any of these scenarios: UCSF/Stanford, UTSW together, Yale/(Harvard, JHU, or Columbia). I am also holding a WL at Stanford which I am not sure I would get into but there is a slim possibility that I will be able to attend there with my partner. If the choice came down to UCSF vs Stanford what would be your pick?

UT Southwestern (Full Tuition + Partner COA will subsidize my living)
Pros

• Research powerhouse and dedicated research time
• Go to the same school as my partner
• Free education for my partner and heavily subsidized education for me
• Seems to be going the extra mile to recruit those that are admitted
• Great Match List (Texas centric but not a problem for me)
• Strong in-house residencies
• Closest to home (from South Texas)
• Better weather than New Haven IMO
• Great community partnerships with underserved populations (Parkland, city official support etc)
• Dallas > New Haven
• Eric Olson (Duchenne world famous researcher)

Cons

• H/HP/P/F Clinicals
• AOA
• More competitive feel amongst classmates than UCSF and Yale
• Bay Area> Dallas
• Weather is not as nice as SF

UCSF
Pros

• T5
• Research Powerhouse (Dedicated Research Time)
• P/F Pre-clerkship and clerkship
• No AOA
• Would get to live with my partner in San Mateo if they are at Stanford
• Anchor institution (San Francisco Gen and lots of community partnerships to work with underserved folks)
• Amazing match list (U Can Stay Forever)
• Excellent in-house residencies (U Can Stay Forever)
• Parents and family can visit me easier than New Haven
• Best Weather
• Bay Area > Dallas > New Haven

Cons

• Expensive COL and tuition (could go into ~60K debt if parents unable to cover all of med school)
• Commuting from San Mateo to UCSF (I know its possible but does it actually make sense with a medical students schedule?)
• Further from family
• I have a truck lol idk how I can get around SF with it but I have been able to get around Boston for 3 years with it so maybe it is possible

Yale
Pros

• T10
• Research Powerhouse (Thesis requirement will help for residencies)
• Yale System (Drooooooollllll)
• NO AOA
• P/F (Some even say its really Pass Pass)
• No shelf exams (idk is this a pro?)
• Ability to work with underserved patients in New Haven
• Very passionate about Muscular Dystrophy research - Yale has a special clinic for DMD and Monkol Lek who I would love to do research with
• Good support network of friends that are at Yale grad programs

Cons

• New Haven
• Weather is terrible (more mild than Boston but not by much)
• Expensive (could go into ~75K debt if parents unable to cover all of med school)
• Would have to do medium/long distance with my partner ):
• Match list is amazing but UTSW is just as impressive in my opinion
• In-house residencies are not as strong as UTSW and UCSF
• Very far from family

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[randompremed457]

First of all, y’all are literally who I want to be when I grow up. The definition of a power couple.

Honestly this decision seems very complex. The primary question I’d ask myself in this situation is what type of physician I want to be. I’m not referring to a specific specialty but more from a publicity/impact perspective.

UCSF is a T5 and likely will open more doors in terms of you meeting widely known/famous individuals in the medical field. I think you’ll have more access to those people and because life is all about networking, you’ll have an easier time reaching their status. This isn’t to say that you wouldn’t be able to do the same at UTSW as it is very highly regarded, but UCSF is better known.

No matter what anyone says, the one thing I firmly believe is that pedigree helps. It makes it easier to open doors. I’m not saying that you can’t open those doors without it, just that it’s easier.

UCSF probably puts out more grads that start startups, go into consulting, biotech etc as well - so if you decide you hate medicine (despite initial passion a few people I know have decided this) you may have an easier time finding an exit option.

From an medical education standpoint I doubt there’s a major difference in quality between these schools.

Commuting 30 mins would be tough, but if most classes are remote it wouldn’t really matter too much for preclinical. You’d probably get an apartment in town for clinicals and take out extra loans for that, at least I would.

From your post, it sounds like you’d be happier living in California and that UCSF excites you more. But that you’d take on a higher debt load.

If the debt load you mentioned is only 140k then honestly on an oncologists salary, that’s not very much in the grand scheme of things and can be paid off very quickly once you become an attending. Not to mention your partner will likely have no student loans and will be able to help out with payments.

If the debt load is 140k a year or something, then the conversation changes a little bit.

IMO - If you want to be an oncologist that helps small communities in south texas, I’d take the money and lean UTSW.

If you want to be the next Sanjay Gupta, go into policy making, create some revolutionary medical device or become a national icon, I’d lean UCSF as it will probably open more doors.

Both are respectable but very different life/career paths with their own pros and cons.

This is all based on you though, and your partner will also have a massive impact on this decision.

I ignored Yale on this list because you didn’t really sound super excited about it.

Good luck, I’m sure you and your partner will make the right choice for y’all and become amazing doctors.

 

[deleted1065184]

Since you're from Texas, I'm sure you already know how ridiculously underrated UTSW is. The pass/fail clerkships of UCSF and Yale are nice, but you literally can't beat full tuition & full COA to a great, in-state university close to family. You will both leave medical school with little-to-no debt. UTSW has a top IM residency program and a solid neurology program too. Furthermore, you can easily match to other competitive IM/neurology programs from there as well. It's a great school.

Right now it sounds all nice that you both have these offers from super prestigious schools, but in 10ish years when you're both done/almost done with training, you'll be VERY happy if you choose the UTSW route.

When you're practicing medicine, nobody will care where you went to med school. But you, your future family, etc will care a lot that you're not spending 5+ years paying off debt. And if you choose to practice in Texas, all of your patients will know how much of a big deal UTSW is. I'm doing medical school at a "T10" school and planning to do a competitive IM subspecialty. UTSW is near the top of my list bc I'm well aware of how amazing the training is there.

 

[deleted1119806]

Since you're from Texas, I'm sure you already know how ridiculously underrated UTSW is. The pass/fail clerkships of UCSF and Yale are nice, but you literally can't beat full tuition & full COA to a great, in-state university close to family. You will both leave medical school with little-to-no debt. UTSW has a top IM residency program and a solid neurology program too. Furthermore, you can easily match to other competitive IM/neurology programs from there as well. It's a great school.

Right now it sounds all nice that you both have these offers from super prestigious schools, but in 10ish years when you're both done/almost done with training, you'll be VERY happy if you choose the UTSW route.

When you're practicing medicine, nobody will care where you went to med school. But you, your future family, etc will care a lot that you're not spending 5+ years paying off debt. And if you choose to practice in Texas, all of your patients will know how much of a big deal UTSW is. I'm doing medical school at a "T10" school and planning to do a competitive IM subspecialty. UTSW is near the top of my list bc I'm well aware of how amazing the training is there.

Just want to say- you are always spot on with these posts

 

[xakrinf]

While I selfishly want you to choose Yale so I can meet and become friends with such a legend, I have to agree with what folks are saying above. Full ride for both of you at a wonderful school with wonderful residencies is hard to pass up. Not sure if you and your partner have done long-distance before, but my partner and I are just now getting to live together after 4.5 years of long distance and cannot understate how difficult a long distance relationship can be, and that was without the stress of med school!

While it may be hard to turn down the prestige of the Yale’s, Harvard’s, and Stanford’s of the world, it seems to me that UTSW serves your needs extremely well.

 

[deleted1095841]

A couple things:
1. Some of my classmates drive 20-30 min to their clerkships. It doesn't seem to bother them. I live "close" but it's at least at 15 minute walk for me, and probably 20 when I have to trudge through snow. tldr don't be intimidated by logistics
2. P/F clinicals are truly a blessing. You can focus on learning, instead of trying to look good. Our clinicals are graded, and graded on a curve. None of us like it (except a handful of gunners maybe)

I would vote for UCSF.

 

[obiwan]

Commuting from San Mateo to UCSF (I know its possible but does it actually make sense with a medical students schedule?)

Medical school is hard and stressful enough. Commuting back and forth in a metro area that is consistently ranked as one of the most traffic congested cities in the US just seems counterintuitive

 

[deleted1095841]

Medical school is hard and stressful enough. Commuting back and forth in a metro area that is consistently ranked as one of the most traffic congested cities in the US just seems counterintuitive

Having lived in the area, I can say traffic got a lot less during COVID. A lot of the tech folks are still working from home. And even before COVID, the traffic was really only bad between 6:30 and 9am. In clinical year, you'll have to reach before 6:30 most days, so it won't matter all that much.

 

[Apocalyptic Scalpel]

IMHO you make this a business decision now, or your decision now will make business decisions for you later.

Go with the cheapest US option for med school. If you have a chance to get out of med school and into residency debt free or with minimal debt, you take that chance and never look back. Especially if you are interested in going back to TX eventually. The UTSW decision looks like all upside and no downside from my perspective.

 

[i-doctor]

Your partner going to the same school as you is huge—usually a big plus but it can also be a negative. UTSW is a very competitive environment. A level of competition or even resentment can develop insidiously between the two of you that is not healthy. Also, what happens if you two unfortunately break up? Awkward for 4 years.
The UCSF/Stanford situation may be ideal. Live together but have separate medical school lives. Sometimes a little separation is healthy. It’s almost like the real world. The two spouses shouldn’t work together. (So even if you get into Stanford, you still should consider going to UCSF instead).

Factor #2:
You want to return to Texas for fellowship, and—presumably— settle down there (?).
So this is very possibly your one and only opportunity in your whole life to live in the Bay Area. Why not go for it? You’ll have no problem getting into a fellowship in Texas from a prestigious med school like UCSF or Stanford.

 

[hydroflaskhomie]

I'd rock the UCSF/Stanford or Yale/Harvard combination if I were you. You'll be able to make medium distance work, especially if your partner is also in medical school and there's a shared understanding.

Would definitely not choose UTSW based on your options.

 

[Pre Med Hopeful 456]

I'd rock the UCSF/Stanford or Yale/Harvard combination if I were you. You'll be able to make medium distance work, especially if your partner is also in medical school and there's a shared understanding.

Would definitely not choose UTSW based on your options.

I also agree with this as well. Based on the options you have I’d go with them over UTSW. Also came to say congrats for having a killer cycle!!!

 

[bob12364747474]

What are your long term career goals? If you and your partner are aiming for academics a better school name could help you match top residencies easier (not to say you couldn’t do it from UTSW though of course). If you’re not interested in academics then I’d say basically free med school for you and your partner at UTSW is hard to turn down.

 

[MercifulCamper]

So much great feedback! Thank you everyone. To answer a few questions that were asked.

What are your long term career goals? If you and your partner are aiming for academics a better school name could help you match top residencies easier (not to say you couldn’t do it from UTSW though of course). If you’re not interested in academics then I’d say basically free med school for you and your partner at UTSW is hard to turn down.

Academic medicine for me. Potentially go back to the RGV one day and contribute to UTRGV or work in the Texas Medical Center. My partner (who already has an MPH) wants to do a mix of clinical research, community health work, and policy reform centered on reproductive health equity. She is also very passionate about working with underserved/uninsured/non-English-proficient patient populations.

Your partner going to the same school as you is huge—usually a big plus but it can also be a negative. UTSW is a very competitive environment. A level of competition or even resentment can develop insidiously between the two of you that is not healthy. Also, what happens if you two unfortunately break up? Awkward for 4 years.
The UCSF/Stanford situation may be ideal. Live together but have separate medical school lives. Sometimes a little separation is healthy. It’s almost like the real world. The two spouses shouldn’t work together. (So even if you get into Stanford, you still should consider going to UCSF instead).

Factor #2:
You want to return to Texas for fellowship, and—presumably— settle down there (?).
So this is very possibly your one and only opportunity in your whole life to live in the Bay Area. Why not go for it? You’ll have no problem getting into a fellowship in Texas from a prestigious med school like UCSF or Stanford.

Definitely want to settle down in Texas at the end of the day but living in Cali at some point in our lives has always been a shared dream.

 

[MercifulCamper]

I'd eliminate Yale. The $$ and having to live in New Haven is compared to living in Dallas with free tuition.

UCSF looks like 57K/yr for non-residents (source). That + cost of living is hefty compared to UTSW. I would email their financial aid dept looking for some assistance. If they provide none, I'd go with UTSW. Keep in mind UTSW's internal med is a robust home-residency program.

If either UCSF or Yale provides money, it tips the scale -- because they both would simplify your path to top residencies. But as is, 60K/yr in tuition and an extra 15K/yr in added cost of living is too much.

PS: Stanford v. UCSF comes down to finances & suburban v. urban. I'd go UCSF in my own circumstances.

One consideration about UCSF is that I would be OOS for 1 year and IS 3 years after that. Definitely cheaper than Yale.

 

[deleted1095841]

One consideration about UCSF is that I would be OOS for 1 year and IS 3 years after that. Definitely cheaper than Yale.

That's really nice of them!
My med school has a policy where someone who is OOS for year 1 must be OOS for all years. So I have to pay OOS tuition for all 4 years. I tried asking their registration/tuition office if continuously living there after starting med school made me in-state, and they clearly said no.

 

[hydroflaskhomie]

Alright I have to stand up for both my home town and my new town just a little here (mainly for others who might be referencing this thread as well). SF and New Haven both have their respective problems but neither are a nightmare to live in and, in my opinion, should not be used as strong negatives for either school.

SF - beautiful desirable town with tons of young people, I loved the fog, incredible food, access to California coast, really lovely people, beautiful nature
New Haven - "college city", tons of suprisingly good food, safe, all of Yale's resources are literally right here (walking distance) which should not be underestimated, easy access to other great NE cities, Connecticut is shockingly beautiful

Maybe it's just me but I would choose either of these locations alone over Dallas 100 times. Also UTSW is not in the few parts of Dallas I would ever choose to live in - I could be wrong, but I think it's a drive to most things you would want as a young person out of a city. That being said, I also wouldn't hold Dallas against UTSW (I think the other negatives are far more weighty).

ALSO - I think people overestimate the importance of the location just a little bit when it comes to med school. No matter where you are, your head will be down working INSIDE a huge majority of the time. I am sure people will disagree with me on this but had to throw my opinion out there.

 

[throwaway01564]

I already told OP this in PM; but to anyone who also is looking at UCSF--please, please, please wait for aid before making any decisions. Despite being a public school, they have pretty good need-based financial aid--several of my friends said they got the most money here out of their choices in fact. And this is without regard to residency.

ALSO, something that is not publicized is that if you are FGLI (or at least not rich), you are automatically considered for something called the Hammarskjold scholarship. This is a full cost of attendance scholarship at UCSF awarded to ~10 people per year, again without regard to residency (e.g. if you are from OOS it also covers the OOS extra tuition). Anyone who has UCSF as a choice should wait till fin aid comes out unless you don't qualify for any--they may surprise you!

Moreover, adding onto @hydroflaskhomie , traffic is really a non-issue; most people live near campus. And if you don't the majority of lectures are recorded, so you don't have to go in person to those if you don't want to.

 

[ElTacoGrande]

ucsf/stanford no doubt, yale/harvard you'd have to work too hard to see each other and the weather. $$ should not really be a consideration where you guys are headed.

 

[Angler]

I live in the Bay Area; I am retired but worked in the South Bay (280 corridor - Cupertino/Santa Clara/Mt View area) for over 30 years. My wife has worked in San Francisco for about 35 years. We have lived "midway" for over 30 years. Traffic was so nice during Covid, but is definitely back to pre-pandemic levels now. My daughter's commute to UCSF (Parnassus campus) is about 30 minutes, while the commute to my work was about 40 minutes (Stanford would be ~ 10 minutes less). Fortunately, my wife is now WFH. And note that afternoon commutes can be significantly worse than AM.

One of the reasons that traffic is as bad or worse than pre-pandemic is that far fewer people use public transit.

It sounds like UCSF/Stanford is the best option for you two, but driving wise, they're not close to each other, especially when in Med School. You'll have to carefully evaluate where to live, as we did.

You're welcome to DM me if you like. And congratulations on your success!

 

[deleted1065184]

It's always so interesting to me to see how differently people prioritize/value certain factors. When I read full tuition and full COA at same institution as partner (and a very highly respected institution, at that) in the same state that OP & partner want to settle down in, that seemed like an extremely simple decision to me lol.

I sometimes forget how remarkably strong the coastal bias is on SDN. Good luck wherever you choose, OP & OP's partner!

 

[MercifulCamper]

It's always so interesting to me to see how differently people prioritize/value certain factors. When I read full tuition and full COA at same institution as partner (and a very highly respected institution, at that) in the same state that OP & partner want to settle down in, that seemed like an extremely simple decision to me lol.

I sometimes forget how remarkably strong the coastal bias is on SDN. Good luck wherever you choose, OP & OP's partner!

It's definitely looking like UTSW vs Stanford/UCSF at this moment. People underrate UTSW across the board on the coasts. My view is it is as good as Pritzker, Michigan, and Northwestern. Those schools don't get a bad wrap for being in the middle of the country. I think most don't consider UTSW or Baylor when applying because of the heavy in state bias but they're freaking awesome. Such a tough decision for me and my partner. It very well may end up being UTSW at the end of the day but we love the idea of living in the Bay Area and the cost difference for my partner is not a factor as she is likely to get full cost of attendance covered. The thing that is weighing on us right now is the potential commute.

 

[obiwan]

It's definitely looking like UTSW vs Stanford/UCSF at this moment. People underrate UTSW across the board on the coasts. My view is it is as good as Pritzker, Michigan, and Northwestern. Those schools don't get a bad wrap for being in the middle of the country. I think most don't consider UTSW or Baylor when applying because of the heavy in state bias but they're freaking awesome. Such a tough decision for me and my partner. It very well may end up being UTSW at the end of the day but we love the idea of living in the Bay Area and the cost difference for my partner is not a factor as she is likely to get full cost of attendance covered. The thing that is weighing on us right now is the potential commute.

If you do end up deciding UTSW but still have the itch to live in the Bay Area, just go their for residency. UTSW has no problem matching people to UCSF or Stanford for internal medicine.

 

[deleted1065184]

It's definitely looking like UTSW vs Stanford/UCSF at this moment. People underrate UTSW across the board on the coasts. My view is it is as good as Pritzker, Michigan, and Northwestern. Those schools don't get a bad wrap for being in the middle of the country. I think most don't consider UTSW or Baylor when applying because of the heavy in state bias but they're freaking awesome. Such a tough decision for me and my partner. It very well may end up being UTSW at the end of the day but we love the idea of living in the Bay Area and the cost difference for my partner is not a factor as she is likely to get full cost of attendance covered. The thing that is weighing on us right now is the potential commute.

Yeah, I'm sure in-state bias plays a role...UW is on the West Coast and still does not get nearly the respect it deserves I think who they admit plays a big role.

And in all fairness, there are just some schools that don't have the ability to become highly prestigious nationally. Outside of medicine, nobody really knows who UCSF and WashU are, but they're both highly respected within medicine. Penn is also highly respect within medicine (and business), but many lay people confuse it with Penn State lol

You'll be fine wherever you go, but you'll just also be broke if you go to the Bay Area. You'll eventually pay it off, but future you will thank past you A LOT if you can get through training with little-to-no debt...esp if you plan on starting a family, purchasing a home, etc.

 

[deleted1095841]

The thing that is weighing on us right now is the potential commute.

Having lived in the Bay Area, I can say that this is indeed a drag, but can be managed with some creativity. For example, if class is at 8am, you could go to sleep early and show up at 6am and study, instead of studying at night. And during clinical year, it won't be much of a problem since you'll have to reach early anyway. But if you want the luxury of waking up at 7:30 and walking to your 8am class, and maybe getting coffee near campus along the way, UCSF/Stanford option probably won't work so well. It depends on what you're willing to compromise for what.

Also, you can communicate with Stanford, if you haven't already, and tell them about your situation, and why you're super-eager to get off their waitlist. They may give you priority if the waitlist moves! No harm in asking.

Overall, I think moving to a different place for a few years can give you a good perspective and make you more well-rounded, even if you end up returning to your hometown. Personally, I'm from the Bay Area, and am going to school in the Midwest now, and while some things have been challenging, I think it's been good for me overall.

Finally, don't let finances control your decision unless you have no choice. If you can't afford something, then you can't afford it, and the decision has been made for you. That's ok. But if you have the means, don't be afraid to use those means to open doors for yourself. Education is one of the best investments you can make. There are other things you can cut costs on.

 

[Max2022]

Not many get these options,
I would love to get an opportunity to live in Cali. Imagine how many doors this will open plus amazing weather and city.

 

[MercifulCamper]

Just got into WashU and my partner was already admitted there so we will throw that into the mix.

 

[deleted1065184]

Any financial aid?

 

[i-doctor]

As good a med school as Wash U is, I’m not sure it is enough of a leap to beat out UTSW.

 

[deleted1065184]

OP's partner is low SES, so I'd be surprised if they haven't received amazing FA from WashU. OP I know you've made an edit emphasizing how FA isn't a big factor for you personally, but I think it's worth considering how much your parents would be spending.

If your main reason for being interested in UCSF over other schools is bc you always wanting to love in California, consider that you will functionally be having your parents pay hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of 4 years just for you to live in California. UCSF will not give you any advantages within or outside of medicine compared to any of these other schools.

Tl;dr I think finances are still worth considering even if you come from money. But maybe that's just the fact that I don't come from money talking lol

 

[MercifulCamper]

OP's partner is low SES, so I'd be surprised if they haven't received amazing FA from WashU. OP I know you've made an edit emphasizing how FA isn't a big factor for you personally, but I think it's worth considering how much your parents would be spending.

If your main reason for being interested in UCSF over other schools is bc you always wanting to love in California, consider that you will functionally be having your parents pay hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of 4 years just for you to live in California. UCSF will not give you any advantages within or outside of medicine compared to any of these other schools.

Tl;dr I think finances are still worth considering even if you come from money. But maybe that's just the fact that I don't come from money talking lol

I agree with you. My mother has health problems and I am definitely considering that in my decision. WashU gave my partner full tuition and I have yet to hear since I just got in. I wonder if they would be receptive to negotiating merit scholarship I received at UTSW. We will see.

 

[MercifulCamper]

As good a med school as Wash U is, I’m not sure it is enough of a leap to beat out UTSW.

But you would say UCSF/Stanford is, correct?

 

[deleted1065184]

I agree with you. My mother has health problems and I am definitely considering that in my decision. WashU gave my partner full tuition and I have yet to hear since I just got in. I wonder if they would be receptive to negotiating merit scholarship I received at UTSW. We will see.

Sorry to hear that about your mom! And they might. Wouldn't hurt to try, worse they can say is no. They can't unaccept you lol. But I honestly don't think any of the schools you've mentioned are worth choosing over UTSW when both you and your partner will be in a great position financially should you go there. If WashU offers you a full tuition scholarship, then I think it may be worth considering them over UTSW. No AOA + P/F clerkships is really a huge benefit, but not bigger than a full tuition scholarship imo lol

 

[i-doctor]

But you would say UCSF/Stanford is, correct?

Yes, from a prestige (and location) perspective.

 

[premedasaurus]

SDNers tend to focus the most on money. This is a huge factor to consider, of course! But not the only factor. This is also TIME you and your partner will never get back. Where would you like to live, and what experience would you like to have? What place will set you up for the most happiness overall (in terms of financials, getting to live near/with your partner, future academic/job prospects, etc).

WashU gives out full-tuition scholarships to 50% of its students. Send a polite negotiation email ASAP and see what happens! To me, though, Stanford/UCSF and WashU seem like great options. Good luck, friend and congrats on all your success!!!

 

[i-doctor]

For perspective—I am an attending now and out of residency for 20 years. I live in the Midwest, near where I was born, and where I have lived most of my life. But I did my residency in NYC. Even though I didn’t plan on staying there, I will never regret having the opportunity to live in that great city for those years. It is a highlight in my life. If California is a dream destination, there isn’t a better time than now to go there. There may not be another opportunity. Don’t count on doing your residency or fellowship there. You have little control of your destiny in regards to where you wind up matching when applying for residencies. Or even getting into your desired field at all if it’s competitive. That’s the brutal reality.

 

[deleted1065184]

Yes, from a prestige (and location) perspective.

UCSF and Stanford definitely do not have more prestige within medicine than WashU. Location is very subjective, but for folks who really like California I'll give you that.

 

[sunshower26]

Just stumbled across this post and if you receive enough FA at WashU I think it is definitely something to consider if you guys can attend together! I think also, just a point that hasn't been mentioned already, you said your SO is "very passionate about working with underserved/uninsured/non-English-proficient patient populations", and I think this ability is very limited in med school at both Stanford and Harvard. In the bay area, UCSF is the one that caters more so to this population while Stanford sees more upper SES/white patients (same as HMS with BMC (BU med) treating more disadvantaged populations). I would imagine that this would be more possible in St. Louis! Best of luck to you both

 

[KendallJennerSniperLady69]

If cost is not an issue for you, then the answer is *obvious* to me: Stanford + UCSF (optimizes school strength + proximity with your partner)

I don't think you and your partner will be able to live together though.

Write a strong letter of intent to Stanford detailing your current offers as well as your partner's situation, and as long as they have room in the class, I'm actually fairly confident that there is a good chance they would let you in.

I would also consider Harvard/Yale to be reasonable if you think the commute to visit each other would be bearable.

I don't think UTSW would be fair to you or your partner personally.

edit: just wanted to reply to this

UCSF and Stanford definitely do not have more prestige within medicine than WashU. Location is very subjective, but for folks who really like California I'll give you that.

i would disagree with this:
1. PD survey speaks for itself
2. most med school admin/deans would also disagree with this
3. related to 2, most students at T20 schools at least would disagree with this

related to points 2 and 3: match day just happened, and it's pretty obvious matches at some institutions are worth more "clout" than matches at others. e.g. people really go "wow" over UCSF/Stanford matches (deans will go out of their way to proudly say they had X number of matches at the "Harvard System/Stanford/UCSF etc."), but i don't think i have seen the same for WashU (may be location dependent tho).

There's probably a negligible practical difference in trying to differentiate UCSF/Stanford from WashU, but saying that UCSF/Stanford don't have more *prestige* (clout, bragging rights, name-brand, etc.) than WashU is flat-out wrong lol

 

[beansncheese]

Hi, S/O here! We have narrowed it down to UTSW, WashU, or UCSF/Stanford!

EDIT for additional context:

• We'd been struggling to decide whether to stay in the Northeast (Harvard/Columbia/Hopkins for me and Yale for @MercifulCamper) - we agreed (today!) that we would be much happier out of this area!
• WashU gave me the same offer as UTSW (full COA), so we are hoping @MercifulCamper gets considered for a merit-based scholarship - if this doesn't work out, WashU will no longer be an option for us due to cost.
• Stanford's aid was good but not free (like WashU and UTSW). I would likely go into at least a little debt over four years (~20-25K), so we may end up with ~75K-100K debt as a couple (because @MercifulCamper will be getting no aid from UCSF but has financial support from parents). I haven't visited Stanford and may decide it is not the place for me, BUT it would come down to whether the debt is worth it if I fall in love with SMS.
• UTSW is free, and we would have extra money under our belt because of @MercifulCamper's financially gracious parents

We appreciate the insight and feel like we are closer to making a decision as all the missing information comes in!

 

[miyakinaki]

As another student considering UCSF or WashU, I hope we're classmates! UCSF had a great second look but it seems like we are all holding our breath about financial aid. Hopefully WashU's event next weekend is solid.

 

[deleted1065184]

i would disagree with this:
1. PD survey speaks for itself
2. most med school admin/deans would also disagree with this
3. related to 2, most students at T20 schools at least would disagree with this

(1) Extremely low response rate, impossible to draw any type of meaningful conclusion from it despite SDN trying to constantly.

(2) Unless you've spoken with most med school admins/deans, this is an empty statement.

(3) Or course most T20 students think T20 schools are better, what a silly and meaningless statement to make.

 

[deleted1065184]

Hi, S/O here! We have narrowed it down to UTSW, WashU, or UCSF/Stanford!

EDIT for additional context:

• We'd been struggling to decide whether to stay in the Northeast (Harvard/Columbia/Hopkins for me and Yale for @MercifulCamper) - we agreed (today!) that we would be much happier out of this area!
• WashU gave me the same offer as UTSW (full COA), so we are hoping @MercifulCamper gets considered for a merit-based scholarship - if this doesn't work out, WashU will no longer be an option for us due to cost.
• Stanford's aid was good but not free (like WashU and UTSW). I would likely go into at least a little debt over four years (~20-25K), so we may end up with ~75K-100K debt as a couple (because @MercifulCamper will be getting no aid from UCSF but has financial support from parents). I haven't visited Stanford and may decide it is not the place for me, BUT it would come down to whether the debt is worth it if I fall in love with SMS.
• UTSW is free, and we would have extra money under our belt because of @MercifulCamper's financially gracious parents

We appreciate the insight and feel like we are closer to making a decision as all the missing information comes in!

Just a quick question re: financial aid. Is UCSF off the table if no FA? I ask bc you said WashU is, but UCSF's COA is the same as WashU's despite having lower tuition (SF is expensive lol). So if UCSF is not off the table without aid, I'd personally put WashU back on the table. Although I still feel UTSW is probably the best move for y'all. Good luck with deciding!

 

[MercifulCamper]

Just a quick question re: financial aid. Is UCSF off the table if no FA? I ask bc you said WashU is, but UCSF's COA is the same as WashU's despite having lower tuition (SF is expensive lol). So if UCSF is not off the table without aid, I'd personally put WashU back on the table. Although I still feel UTSW is probably the best move for y'all. Good luck with deciding!

Yes, ultimately we still have to run the numbers, but these comments were made under the assumption that WashU is more costly than UCSF! We are planning on meeting with fin aid at all these schools to get the best estimate

 

[deleted1065184]

Yes, ultimately we still have to run the numbers, but these comments were made under the assumption that WashU is more costly than UCSF! We are planning on meeting with fin aid at all these schools to get the best estimate

I suspected so...so I took a quick glance at MSAR and the expected OOS COA for UCSF is $92,831/year ($80,596/year IS), whereas WashU's expected COA is $91,335/year.

 

[chilly_md]

UTSW so you can go through the same school together and be close to home.

 

[MercifulCamper]

UTSW so you can go through the same school together and be close to home.

Over WashU together? Sorry I had not got into WashU at the time of writing this post but that is another one of our options to go to school together.

 

[MercifulCamper]

If cost is not an issue for you, then the answer is *obvious* to me: Stanford + UCSF (optimizes school strength + proximity with your partner)

I don't think you and your partner will be able to live together though.

Write a strong letter of intent to Stanford detailing your current offers as well as your partner's situation, and as long as they have room in the class, I'm actually fairly confident that there is a good chance they would let you in.

I would also consider Harvard/Yale to be reasonable if you think the commute to visit each other would be bearable.

I don't think UTSW would be fair to you or your partner personally.

edit: just wanted to reply to this

i would disagree with this:
1. PD survey speaks for itself
2. most med school admin/deans would also disagree with this
3. related to 2, most students at T20 schools at least would disagree with this

related to points 2 and 3: match day just happened, and it's pretty obvious matches at some institutions are worth more "clout" than matches at others. e.g. people really go "wow" over UCSF/Stanford matches (deans will go out of their way to proudly say they had X number of matches at the "Harvard System/Stanford/UCSF etc."), but i don't think i have seen the same for WashU (may be location dependent tho).

There's probably a negligible practical difference in trying to differentiate UCSF/Stanford from WashU, but saying that UCSF/Stanford don't have more *prestige* (clout, bragging rights, name-brand, etc.) than WashU is flat-out wrong lol

Why don't you think UTSW would be fair to us?

 

[chilly_md]

Over WashU together? Sorry I had not got into WashU at the time of writing this post but that is another one of our options to go to school together.

WashU would not be close to family (including your mom who you said had some health problems) and I am assuming they won't end up giving you much aid.

 

[KendallJennerSniperLady69]

Why don't you think UTSW would be fair to us?

If you are interested in academia, then unfortunately pedigree does matter, and the Harvard/Stanford/UCSF names definitely do carry weight in that regard. I say that it wouldn't be fair to either of you because you both have much stronger choices to choose from, and overlooking those choices just so that you could live together/go to the same medical school seems like a waste in my opinion. You'll have plenty of opportunities to spend time together if you both live in the Bay (+ it'll be a lot more fun being together in the Bay than in Dallas imo, and I'm saying that as someone who is very familiar with and fond of both places).

You'd definitely still be able to have an academic career coming from UTSW of course, but the truth is that the the top researchers in whatever field you will go decide to go into are more likely to be at places like UCSF/Harvard/Stanford. All 3 of these places are known to have waaaay more HHMI and similarly recognized researchers compared to peer institutions.