Utah AA bill

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

ans2021

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
69
Reaction score
55
There is a bill being floated around for the acceptance of AAs in Utah. CRNAs are coming out in droves, not just from Utah, but the country spreading a lot of misinformation. The comments section is wild! As physicians we need to be united in the same cause.


Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
I always laugh at the irony of CRNAs claiming they are equals with anesthesiologists but then taking offense at AAs being treated the same as CRNAs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 12 users
Members don't see this ad :)
From the article, it looks like it is out of committee and passed the senate. This could be a big win if successful. I’d love to know their playbook so other states can start laying the groundwork.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
From the article, it looks like it is out of committee and passed the senate. This could be a big win if successful. I’d love to know their playbook so other states can start laying the groundwork.

This is the midlevel problem. They opened the door. For years they said anesthesia can be done by a nurse BUT ONLY A NURSE. They didn’t think they would get punked by another mid level. Now look at them. Stuck in a race to the bottom

I had a crna go on and on about free choices and free market and how they were responding to that need. Wonder where all his free market sanctimonious bull**** will go as he watches state after state approve this legislation. He’ll probably just be glad he retired.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 5 users
There is a bill being floated around for the acceptance of AAs in Utah. CRNAs are coming out in droves, not just from Utah, but the country spreading a lot of misinformation. The comments section is wild! As physicians we need to be united in the same cause.

Funny - they've already turned off the comments on this article. Too many whiny CRNAs disguised as "interested citizens".

I never cease to be amazed at the BS spouted by CRNAs against AAs. I've been hearing it from more than 40 years. It's like a broken record. The arguments and lies never change - just the faces spouting them.

Here's a couple things you never see mentioned...

When did CRNA educational programs start requiring a BSN? Hmmm, not until well into the 90s. Do you know that there are still thousands of CRNAs in practice with nursing diplomas and anesthesia certificates, and NO DEGREE whatsoever, many of whom trained at community hospitals that simply wanted to have a never-ending supply of CRNAs to staff their own ORs?

When did the nurses start granting masters degrees in nurse anesthesia? Hmmmm, also well into the 90s. Why did they do this? Perhaps because AAs were granting a masters degree in anesthesiology starting with the first class in the mid-70s.

Notice that all of the CRNA arguments are amazingly similar, like maybe they're just repeating what they've read or what they've heard and not forming an independent thought? Things like "CRNAs have a minimum of 36 months of ICU "training"" before applying to a CRNA program (the actual requirement is 12 months of critical care, which can be defined by individual programs). Or that "CRNAs have more clinical education than physicians? Hmmmmm - that's because they want to count all four years of nursing school as education, never mind that two full years of that is typically core requirements like English and Introduction to Chemistry for Nursing Students, as well as count any time in the ICU as "education", and THEN want to count their newly expanded fluff DNP degree, which invariably offers absolutely zero additional clinical education from the master's degree level and adds courses along the lines of Statistics for Nurses, Politics 101, and other fluffy coursework to pad that 3rd year. (also available online for those who have a masters degree, so obviously no clinical work there). So they claim they have "at least 10 years of nursing education" and physicians only have 8 years of medical education. Hmmmm - didn't MDs go to college too, and take actual chemistry and physics and o-chem, etc., etc. and not just introductory core classes?

And of course nurses know SOOOOOO much about AAs because, "oh well, I've never actually worked with one, but I can tell you the "facts" provided by our union, er, professional organizations".

And isn't it interesting that the MD/AA medical direction combination is so expensive, but that same MD/CRNA medical direction combination is not? Or that anesthesia by the MD/AA or CRNA combination is exactly the same cost to the patient as a CRNA only. Hmmmmmm.

It's really a shame - because as least where I am, we can't find enough anesthetists of either type every year to staff our ever-expanding practice. For the foreseeable future, there is going to be plenty of work for all of us - MD, AA, or CRNA, together or separately.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 12 users
what can we all do to support this piece of legislation? Anyone have a congress person we can email. Hopefully ASA can send pre-written emails on our behalf too
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Funny - they've already turned off the comments on this article. Too many whiny CRNAs disguised as "interested citizens".

Love watching these militant crnas sweat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
This is the midlevel problem. They opened the door. For years they said anesthesia can be done by a nurse BUT ONLY A NURSE. They didn’t think they would get punked by another mid level. Now look at them. Stuck in a race to the bottom

I had a crna go on and on about free choices and free market and how they were responding to that need. Wonder where all his free market sanctimonious bull**** will go as he watches state after state approve this legislation. He’ll probably just be glad he retired.


According to the other thread, a dental assistant can do anesthesia.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
According to the other thread, a dental assistant can do anesthesia.

They can monitor and go through acls every year…. But the doing part is actually done by omfs, who is also doing the surgery….
Com’on now.

They are well trained to do both.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
There is some juicy reading material in those comments. Lots of strong emotions, flavored with just a hint of truth. The race to the bottom continues.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
The ONLY voice that matters is what anesthesiologists think.. Serious why should CRNAs care when they aren't the ones supervising AAs. This is all about midlevel nursing trying to suppress competition. AANA shameless and pathetic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
From the article, it looks like it is out of committee and passed the senate. This could be a big win if successful. I’d love to know their playbook so other states can start laying the groundwork.

Excellent. This needs to happen. We need AAs in all 50 states.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
There is a bill being floated around for the acceptance of AAs in Utah. CRNAs are coming out in droves, not just from Utah, but the country spreading a lot of misinformation. The comments section is wild! As physicians we need to be united in the same cause.

Man, that comments section is a class 5 dumpster fire.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 7 users
The ONLY voice that matters is what anesthesiologists think.. Serious why should CRNAs care when they aren't the ones supervising AAs. This is all about midlevel nursing trying to suppress competition. AANA shameless and pathetic.
Would you believe...of course you would because the nurses have no shame...

A couple of the loudest mouths of CRNA propaganda have suggested that AAs should be directed by CRNAs, because after all, they're anesthesiologists. I kid you not - you can't make this stuff up.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Would you believe...of course you would because the nurses have no shame...

A couple of the loudest mouths of CRNA propaganda have suggested that AAs should be directed by CRNAs, because after all, they're anesthesiologists. I kid you not - you can't make this stuff up.

Oh I’m sure the spin doctors at the AANA are working on this one

“Hey CRNAs it’s not a problem…we will just make the AAs do cases under our supervision! That what we will do! Who needs a doctor when we are doctors!! Yes then our take over of the OR will be complete!!”
 
It is the absolute opposite of anticompetitive. What the nurses are doing is anticompetitive. Can't expect AANA to ever use facts with their propaganda.
To play devils advocate, are laws requiring physician supervision anticompetitive? I’m sure the CRNAs would say they are, without mentioning that having anyone but a physician sitting cases would be far below standard of care in many other first world countries.

Maybe these comments are copy/pasted from their stock opt out pitches and they forgot to edit the noncompetitive part to ‘unsafe’.
 
To play devils advocate, are laws requiring physician supervision anticompetitive? I’m sure the CRNAs would say they are, without mentioning that having anyone but a physician sitting cases would be far below standard of care in many other first world countries.

Maybe these comments are copy/pasted from their stock opt out pitches and they forgot to edit the noncompetitive part to ‘unsafe’.

Also WHO does not mention crnas as a standard for anesthetic care
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Would you believe...of course you would because the nurses have no shame...

A couple of the loudest mouths of CRNA propaganda have suggested that AAs should be directed by CRNAs, because after all, they're anesthesiologists. I kid you not - you can't make this stuff up.
This exactly. An amendment was just made to the Utah bill, as it was looking like it was going to pass, that CRNAs can supervise AAs. First they are "Drs" because they have a doctorate degree. Then they are "anesthesiologists". Then its unsafe for anesthesiologists to supervise 3-4 people at the same time. Then "Oh well if an anesthesiologist can supervise people we can too". Their hypocrisy is off the charts unreal. Im dumbfounded. I've never seen a group of people so desperately want to be someone they aren't.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: 4 users
This exactly. An amendment was just made to the Utah bill, as it was looking like it was going to pass, that CRNAs can supervise AAs. First they are "Drs" because they have a doctorate degree. Then they are "anesthesiologists". Then its unsafe for anesthesiologists to supervise 3-4 people at the same time. Then "Oh well if an anesthesiologist can supervise people we can too". Their hypocrisy is off the charts unreal. Im dumbfounded. I've never seen a group of people so desperately want to be someone they aren't.

Kind of what I suspected would happen. Wow. Pretty soon AAs gonna want to do it by themselves without supervision and all will get the rural pass through
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Borderline hit piece. Look at the title alone. Uneducated surgeons believe some of the bs CRNAs feed them that AAs are more comparable to MAs than PAs.

I was told bill passed today but havent verified.
 
Yes the bill allowing AA licensure in Utah has passed both houses and now goes to the governor’s desk to get signed or vetoed. The house may have to vote on it one more time before that if the senate changed it but I’m not sure and even if that’s so it’s probably a formality.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Yes the bill allowing AA licensure in Utah has passed both houses and now goes to the governor’s desk to get signed or vetoed. The house may have to vote on it one more time before that if the senate changed it but I’m not sure and even if that’s so it’s probably a formality.

Will it have all the b.s. crna amendments?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I can’t see the CRNA amendments referenced above but also might be looking in the wrong place. Not sure if it would matter but not ideal.

Here is the bill:
 
Bill passed today. No crazy CRNA amendments passed thankfully. Win today in the state of Utah.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 15 users
Bill passed today. No crazy CRNA amendments passed thankfully. Win today in the state of Utah.

A win for safe and effective patient care in Utah. I'm glad the lawmakers saw through the ridiculous AANA rhetoric. We need AAs in all 50 states.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
I am an anesthesiologist in Utah. Bill passed today with no amendments by a very wide margin and across party lines. CRNAs showed once again their true face. We will get rid of as many of them as we can moving forward. They are liars, double-faced, money sucking entities with little regard for patient care and safety. Very glad that politicians could see right through their lies. Keep up the good fight.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 18 users
I wish the ASA would divert more resources to helping AAs get credentialed in all 50 states. Amazing how these anticompetitive nurses will say up is down in regards to AA licensure. Stop wasting resources fighting the term nurse anesthesiologist. Theyre gonna do it anyways and the ones with self respect dont. And it all started when AAs started the new anesthestist campaign. Not really sure how the hell else to refer to AAs other than anesthetist.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
There is a bill being floated around for the acceptance of AAs in Utah. CRNAs are coming out in droves, not just from Utah, but the country spreading a lot of misinformation. The comments section is wild! As physicians we need to be united in the same cause.


i think crnas are overtrained.. the 3 year education and "doctorate" is unnecessary and just an educational money making scam.. we dont need someone to be able to intubate and place LMAs and alines or start cases by themselves or even wake up by themselves. i can do all that stuff and be there for all that stuff, i just need you to watch the monitor, have a basic understanding of whats going on, and call me if there is a problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I am an anesthesiologist in Utah. Bill passed today with no amendments by a very wide margin and across party lines. CRNAs showed once again their true face. We will get rid of as many of them as we can moving forward. They are liars, double-faced, money sucking entities with little regard for patient care and safety. Very glad that politicians could see right through their lies. Keep up the good fight.
You guys are out of your minds. It is never a good idea to train a whole bunch of new people to do what you can do. Basic supply/demand will always win out. Just wait, it’s anesthesia assistant now, soon it will be anesthesia associate (just like PA’s).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
You guys are out of your minds. It is never a good idea to train a whole bunch of new people to do what you can do. Basic supply/demand will always win out. Just wait, it’s anesthesia assistant now, soon it will be anesthesia associate (just like PA’s).

CRNAs opened this door a long time ago. There’s no closing it now. Maybe after a 4th or 5th class of anesthesia “provider” is created they’ll finally get the message that it’s just not worth trying to act as the newer cheaper susitutute but that’s too generous .
 
You guys are out of your minds. It is never a good idea to train a whole bunch of new people to do what you can do. Basic supply/demand will always win out. Just wait, it’s anesthesia assistant now, soon it will be anesthesia associate (just like PA’s).

Takes the same to train a crna as it does to train AA. The pool is not changing much
 
I wish the ASA would divert more resources to helping AAs get credentialed in all 50 states. Amazing how these anticompetitive nurses will say up is down in regards to AA licensure. Stop wasting resources fighting the term nurse anesthesiologist. Theyre gonna do it anyways and the ones with self respect dont. And it all started when AAs started the new anesthestist campaign. Not really sure how the hell else to refer to AAs other than anesthetist.
We get a tremendous amount of support from the ASA. It is no small feat getting legislation passed in any state for any reason, but AA-enabling legislation brings out the AANA emailing machine, and legislators are inundated with tens of thousands of emails from CRNAs who have never met or worked with an AA, but are happy to cut and paste the AANA drivel that they receive and sign their name to it.

Moving into a new state requires a concerted effort between the ASA and AAAA, but just as importantly, the support and effort of the state component societies. As they say, all politics is local. Legislators in Utah will pay much more attention to an anesthesiologist in Utah promoting AAs than they will me sitting in the Atlanta suburbs writing an email. Local/state support is critical.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
You guys are out of your minds. It is never a good idea to train a whole bunch of new people to do what you can do. Basic supply/demand will always win out. Just wait, it’s anesthesia assistant now, soon it will be anesthesia associate (just like PA’s).
AA's have been around now for more than 50 years. Not exactly "new people". We've moved past the "what the heck is an AA" questions we used to get at the ASA Annual Meeting to "how can I hire an AA, how can we get AAs in my state, and how do we start an AA school".

As I've stated before, AAs will not seek independent practice. That's yet another of the lies spouted by the nurses. Our profession is rooted in the anesthesia care team concept. Our practice is governed not just be state law, but by federal requirements through CMS (something the PAs don't have to worry about).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
You guys are out of your minds. It is never a good idea to train a whole bunch of new people to do what you can do. Basic supply/demand will always win out. Just wait, it’s anesthesia assistant now, soon it will be anesthesia associate (just like PA’s).

I am not sure how you could read the comments in the article, or really any CRNA comments that come out when this stuff happens, and continue to support CRNAs. I like and have gotten along with most all CRNAs I've worked with, but my understanding is that they are all AANA members and supportive of AANA efforts. That's just a full stop, absolute NO, in my mind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Top