USMLE Step 1 -- Pass / Fail Starting Jan 2022

[tri99]

Lol i have no clue. Personally im going for FM and if someone ****s on me for that so be it. Gotta keep my chin up and skin thick.

As someone currently working in a rural FM clinic, I think most who haven't been exposed to that setting would be surprised by the breadth of practice. Just today the FM physician I worked performed a leg mass excision, stitched a split earlobe, observed a cardiac stress test, conducted 10 adult / pediatric physicals, and saw ~10 walk-in visits.

On the contrary, he's said some of his peers from residency do nothing but physicals and well-child checks and refer out for anything beyond that.

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[Alkaidius]

As someone currently working in a rural FM clinic, I think most who haven't been exposed to that setting would be surprised by the breadth of practice. Just today the FM physician I worked performed a leg mass excision, stitched a split earlobe, observed a cardiac stress test, conducted 10 adult / pediatric physicals, and saw ~10 walk-in visits.

On the contrary, he's said some of his peers from residency do nothing but physicals and well-child checks and refer out for anything beyond that.

You’ve got it wrong, you’ve literally listed the exact reasons they don’t want to practice in FM lol. It’s because it’s a wide scope that people don’t like it. They want to hyperspecialize and see a handful of unique and rare cases on the daily and get paid ludicrous amounts of money because they’re the only doc within a few hundred miles that does that hyperspecialized thing.

 

[FrechToastFries]

You’ve got it wrong, you’ve literally listed the exact reasons they don’t want to practice in FM lol. It’s because it’s a wide scope that people don’t like it. They want to hyperspecialize and see a handful of unique and rare cases on the daily and get paid ludicrous amounts of money because they’re the only doc within a few hundred miles that does that hyperspecialized thing.

that has to get boring at some point. I like EM, IM, and even some surgical specialties because of the variety. Seeing the same 10 categories of patients forever would drive me nuts.

 

[Alkaidius]

that has to get boring at some point. I like EM, IM, and even some surgical specialties because of the variety. Seeing the same 10 categories of patients forever would drive me nuts.

Even hyperspecialized stuff has decent variety. But also primary care is basically perceived as blue collar work for doctors so...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Because matching into good MD programs in these specialties was heavily reliant on being above a certain score (for GS 230
Is the cutoff) if you have below that score your outcomes deminish.

Now, DOs will all be viewed the same.

You can still match these specialties I’m sure, but the quality and ceiling will be lower than before in my opinion

This. Honestly if I were matching a few years from now I wouldn't even look at the websites of half the programs I will be applying to, and expecting a handful of interviews from currently. The ceiling for DO's just came crashing down for 99% of applicants, and the only ones it won't effect will be the handful of outliers with significant connections, research, excellent letters, etc.

If you wanna do IM, 100% go to a DO school. There are TONS of ex AOA and 95% MD programs that PREFER DO kids for IM. What’s tougher for DO kids are very high competitive specialties like Neurosurgery, Orthopedic Surgery, Ophthalmology, etc. IM is primary care. Also, if you’re concerned about fellowships, lots of DO schools like PCOM or Nova have their own fellowships. Don’t worry. Also, SDN has existed for 20 years or so. The “SDN hate” against DOs have existed for that duration as well. But it didn’t stop the 98% DO match rate. Don’t let SDN be a judge to your career, especially when the aim is IM.


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Tons of ex AOA and present ACGME Cardiology fellowships available for DOs. Don’t worry.


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You sound delusional.

It’s not flashy and you gotta actually talk to people. To be truly happy as a primary care doc, you have to not care about being thanked for a job well done, because you likely won’t be. Patients rarely appreciate prevention of a disease unless they’ve seen it in action before in a relative or friend.

People that look down their nose at patients, think they’re idiots, require that dose of dopamine from a daily “oh, thank you doctor, you’re a miracle worker”, or all around can’t empathize with the struggles of someone less gifted/privileged than them are literally not built for it, and they know it. A person like that being forced to do this will pick the first opportunity they can to gtfo and good riddance.

You’ve got it wrong, you’ve literally listed the exact reasons they don’t want to practice in FM lol. It’s because it’s a wide scope that people don’t like it. They want to hyperspecialize and see a handful of unique and rare cases on the daily and get paid ludicrous amounts of money because they’re the only doc within a few hundred miles that does that hyperspecialized thing.

Are you trying to compensate for something? Serious question.

 

[Alkaidius]

This. Honestly if I were matching a few years from now I wouldn't even look at the websites of half the programs I will be applying to, and expecting a handful of interviews from currently. The ceiling for DO's just came crashing down for 99% of applicants, and the only ones it won't effect will be the handful of outliers with significant connections, research, excellent letters, etc.



You sound delusional.



Are you trying to compensate for something? Serious question.

Definitely not! I hold respect for ALL med students who shoot for competitive residencies until they start bashing anything else. Those are the people that I refer to. The people that simply can’t fathom that personality can lead to a choice in specialty and shout “do X” when they see a board score instead of “well you can do X, Y, and Z which do you think makes you happier”? I’ve heard examples of this left and right on the forum and in real life, and I call it out to balance it out when I feel the need to.

 

[deleted831695]

All those at top 25 (maybe even up to top 40) ranked MDs will want this change. All those at low-tier MDs and DOs who are interested in primary care/non-competitive specialties or do not particularly care to train at a top residency program will want this change.

People who want to restructure medical education to have less wasted time in the classroom (especially when many students forget everything and have to relearn everything from Dr. Sattar, Dr. Ryan, and UWorld) and more time for clinical education will want this change.

People who complain about the nebulous COMLEX average changes year by year, well there's a decent chance now that Level One can become P/F, so that will be a welcomed change too.

People who complain about lack of quality/stratification in some DO schools - well now is the chance for certain DO schools to improve themselves and advertise they provide a superior product by having strong clinical training, research opportunities, and extensive GMEs. Hopefully, there'll be an official DO school ranking list soon.

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However, those of us who are/will break(ing) barriers by matching in excellent residency programs - this is a shame. Imagine coming from a background where you can't get into a top undergrad that feeds into strong medical schools. Imagine making some stupid decisions (so many of us do) when you were in your late teens/early twenties such that you're no longer able to go to a higher ranked MD later down the road. Imagine being from Cali or a state loaded with premeds so you have to apply out-of-state and have to go a low-tier MD or DO despite having good overall matriculation stats. Step 1 was supposed to be a great equalizer there, now it falls to Step 2, but the timing of that exam hurts a lot of people.

Many will benefit from this change, but it utterly screws a significant minority of excellent medical students.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

All those at top 25 (maybe even up to top 40) ranked MDs will want this change. All those at low-tier MDs and DOs who are interested in primary care/non-competitive specialties or do not particularly care to train at a top residency program will want this change.

People who want to restructure medical education to have less wasted time in the classroom (especially when many students forget everything and have to relearn everything from Dr. Sattar, Dr. Ryan, and UWorld) and more time for clinical education will want this change.

People who complain about the nebulous COMLEX average changes year by year, well there's a decent chance now that Level One can become P/F, so that will be a welcomed change too.

People who complain about lack of quality/stratification in some DO schools - well now is the chance for certain DO schools to improve themselves and advertise they provide a superior product by having strong clinical training, research opportunities, and extensive GMEs. Hopefully, there'll be an official DO school ranking list soon.

----------------------------

However, those of us who are/will break(ing) barriers by matching in excellent residency programs - this is a shame. Imagine coming from a background where you can't get into a top undergrad that feeds into strong medical schools. Imagine making some stupid decisions (so many of us do) when you were in your late teens/early twenties such that you're no longer able to go to a higher ranked MD later down the road. Imagine being from Cali or a state loaded with premeds so you have to apply out-of-state and have to go a low-tier MD or DO despite having good overall matriculation stats. Step 1 was supposed to be a great equalizer there, now it falls to Step 2, but the timing of that exam hurts a lot of people.

Many will benefit from this change, but it utterly screws a significant minority of excellent medical students.

LOL stop this nonsense, you will still match at former AOA programs and programs that took DO's in 90%+ of specialties, I mean just think about it, if those programs ranked DO's then it wasn't the DO initials they were biased against to begin with, all that changes is the criteria for residency selection and STEP2 and DO students will still able to excel in those critera such as get good LOR and 3rd year clinical grades along with STEP2 score, idk about the timing of that test but I assume taking it and doing well on it can't hurt. If your class of 2024 it sucks but this could also potentially help you, we will just have to wait and see, but the sky is definitely not falling.

 

[iamdamiancray]

I am so ****ed! I only got interviews for DO schools

What did I tell you last night? I know this field. If you want to do Card, you’ve to have the medical academics for it regardless you are an MD or a DO. My own family cardiologist is a DO. Everything but family medicine is tough to get as an MD or a DO. The problem with the DOs I said before was the stigma that’s vanishing because of the merge. MD and DO are 2/29 registered Western medical degrees and either one makes you a doctor. Interview well. Go to school. Do well and graduate with an American medical degree. Life goes beyond SDN.


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[tri99]

I was under the impression that with the merger, DO’s would have to maximize research, away rotations, and LORs to even have a sliver of hope at matching uber competitive residencies (ortho/derm). If this is the case I really don’t see how the P/F step changes things that much.

 

[deleted831695]

LOL stop this nonsense, you will still match at former AOA programs and programs that took DO's in 90%+ of specialties, I mean just think about it, if those programs ranked DO's then it wasn't the DO initials they were biased against to begin with, all that changes is the criteria for residency selection and STEP2 and DO students will still able to excel in those critera such as get good LOR and 3rd year clinical grades along with STEP2 score, idk about the timing of that test but I assume taking it and doing well on it can't hurt. If your class of 2024 it sucks but this could also potentially help you, we will just have to wait and see, but the sky is definitely not falling.

Bruh I'm Class of 2022. I survive this. I'm talking about fellow bone wizards in the Classes of 2023-2026.

In fact, considering I have the intelligence of a baboon, I wish I had this change when I take Step this summer as I already have research and am probably going into primary care lol.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

and shout “do X” when they see a board score instead of “well you can do X, Y, and Z which do you think makes you happier”? I’ve heard examples of this left and right on the forum and in real life, and I call it out to balance it out when I feel the need to.

That's not "bashing anything else"

 

[Alkaidius]

That's not "bashing anything else"

I was being generous.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Honestly am really counting on that at this point

You haven’t got any MD interviews. I think you may need to accept that DO with community IM could be as good as it gets for you (not gaurenteeing just pointing out the most likely outcome). If you are okay with that outcome then proceed, if your not okay, then do what you need to to go MD.

that has to get boring at some point. I like EM, IM, and even some surgical specialties because of the variety. Seeing the same 10 categories of patients forever would drive me nuts.

Boring pays the bills. Some people want to be the master of something rather than a generalist.

 

[JimBone905]

You haven’t got any MD interviews. I think you may need to accept that DO with community IM could be as good as it gets for you (not gaurenteeing just pointing out the most likely outcome). If you are okay with that outcome then proceed, if your not okay, then do what you need to to go MD.

Boring pays the bills. Some people want to be the master of something rather than a generalist.

Community IM pays the bills too

 

[Khan123567]

You haven’t got any MD interviews. I think you may need to accept that DO with community IM could be as good as it gets for you (not gaurenteeing just pointing out the most likely outcome). If you are okay with that outcome then proceed, if your not okay, then do what you need to to go MD.

yeah I know, tbh I am content with community IM, I was just hoping for options in case my mind changed later.

 

[libertyyne]

People find primary care degrading for some reason. Personally I think its just a byproduct of people not growing past the competitive streak needed to get into and pass medical school. Those who see it as a race against their peers instead of a race against themselves

Primary care is not degrading for that reason. Primary care is unpopular because we have noctors claiming equivlency, having poor reimbursement, and the bottom of our classes filling it droves.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Primary care is not degrading for that reason. Primary care is unpopular because we have noctors claiming equivlency, having poor reimbursement, and the bottom of our classes filling it droves.

Honestly when I see the members of my class who want FM and have only wanted FM it really gives me mixed vibes. On the one hand, these guys are just chilling thru school, and I am somewhat jealous. On the other the byproduct of many of them not working hard shows on rotations when your teamed with them. People forget that your specialty is also your peers. Make sure you like the kind of people who are in a specialty, cause they are setting an stereotype that will be cast on you.

 

[libertyyne]

Honestly when I see the members of my class who want FM and have only wanted FM it really gives me mixed vibes. On the one hand, these guys are just chilling thru school, and I am somewhat jealous. On the other the byproduct of many of them not working hard shows on rotations when your teamed with them. People forget that your specialty is also your peers. Make sure you like the kind of people who are in a specialty, cause they are setting an stereotype that will be cast on you.

This is absolutely a huge turnoff to me. You are judged by the peers you keep. Primary care could be a very fulfilling career if its image became better and the reimbursement improved a bit, and there was less reflexive consulting specialists because they dont get paid to manage complex patients. If the reimbursement of Primary care was equivalent to say derm it would change the landscape of medical school and medicine.
that and if noctors were not out there claiming equivalency with a fraction of training.

 

[OsteopathicDO28]

I’m will begin next semester as a DO student who is confident that I want to pursue family medicine (possibly psychiatry but most likely not)... Is it possible that this usmle pass/fail decision maybe beneficial for someone in my position?


My reasoning is that fewer students are going to attend International medical schools, so therefore there will be less competition for family medicine residencies...


Does this make sense? Do you think this will actually substatially change IMG numbers? And therefore allow less compition for FM?

 

[libertyyne]

I’m will begin next semester as a DO student who is confident that I want to pursue family medicine (possibly psychiatry but most likely not)... Is it possible that this usmle pass/fail decision maybe beneficial for someone in my position?


My reasoning is that fewer students are going to attend International medical schools, so therefore there will be less competition for family medicine residencies...


Does this make sense? Do you think this will actually substatially change IMG numbers? And therefore allow less compition for FM?

This is yet to be seen. It is all just hypothetical at this point . Considering step 2 ck is still graded it would lead me to believe that people IMGs will continue to exisit .

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I’m will begin next semester as a DO student who is confident that I want to pursue family medicine (possibly psychiatry but most likely not)... Is it possible that this usmle pass/fail decision maybe beneficial for someone in my position?


My reasoning is that fewer students are going to attend International medical schools, so therefore there will be less competition for family medicine residencies...


Does this make sense? Do you think this will actually substatially change IMG numbers? And therefore allow less compition for FM?

You would have been fine for FM either way. I think this will help, as more students may try and reach for competitive specialties at MD programs.

 

[pathomapeds]

This is just stupid. Programs are probably just gonna use step 2 now to filter out the bottom tier of applicants. No way they're actually going through a thousand applications. Seriously this is the kind of mind bogglingly stupid decision you could only come to expect from our licensing orgnizations. What are all those meetings and reviews for? It's like they get paid to sit around and drool. All this so that students will start paying more attention to the mind numbing garbage being taught by PhDs at lectures like 15 minute tangents about whatever boring research they did 20 years ago. You can be sure the med schools had a lot to do with this decision. I cant even with this crap. Medical education is a joke. Good luck to the next generation.

It’s bad business for the NBME to make this decision. They did it because it was the right thing to do. They will lose money by making it pass/fail.


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[sab3156]

It’s bad business for the NBME to make this decision. They did it because it was the right thing to do. They will lose money by making it pass/fail.


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Wow, thank you. I'm glad that another pre-med is here to enlighten us about Step 1 and residency.

 

[pathomapeds]

Wow, thank you. I'm glad that another pre-med is here to enlighten us about Step 1 and residency.

Sorry I haven’t wasted enough of my time commenting on 1000+ SDN posts this past year to bother changing my status from pre-med.

 

[Khan123567]

Wow, thank you. I'm glad that another pre-med is here to enlighten us about Step 1 and residency.

Lol

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Primary care is not degrading for that reason. Primary care is unpopular because we have noctors claiming equivlency, having poor reimbursement, and the bottom of our classes filling it droves.

It would appear that you think primary care is beneath the other specialties.

 

[libertyyne]

It would appear that you think primary care is beneath the other specialties.

no. I think primary care doesnt get the respect it deserves. That and the people in my class going into it arent very hard working.

 

[FrechToastFries]

no. I think primary care doesnt get the respect it deserves. That and the people in my class going into it arent very hard working.

They’re not hard working because they don’t need to be. Half the **** you learn for step 1 and in lectures is useless. If you could match into ortho/derm/any other competitive specialty as easily as you can into FM, those guys wouldn’t be working hard either.

What you’re making it seem like is:
FM = not a serious/smart student

which is not the case, and that whole mindset is toxic.

 

[sab3156]

My reasoning is that fewer students are going to attend International medical schools, so therefore there will be less competition for family medicine residencies...


Does this make sense? Do you think this will actually substatially change IMG numbers? And therefore allow less compition for FM?

Desperation will always exist in medical school admissions, so Caribbean schools aren't going to be seeing any fewer matriculants.

And come on, Caribbean students are no one's competition in FM.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

It’s bad business for the NBME to make this decision. They did it because it was the right thing to do. They will lose money by making it pass/fail.


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I agree that it’s the right thing to do. That said, I am kind of glad I missed this change.

 

[sab3156]

What you’re making it seem like is:
FM = not a serious/smart student

He explicitly said hard working... nothing about being serious or smart.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

They’re not hard working because they don’t need to be. Half the **** you learn for step 1 and in lectures is useless. If you could match into ortho/derm/any other competitive specialty as easily as you can into FM, those guys wouldn’t be working hard either.

What you’re making it seem like is:
FM = not a serious/smart student

which is not the case, and that whole mindset is toxic.

Lol, your offended by his observation, which by the way, has been my experience as well. It’s not a mindset, it’s just what we see happening in general.

 

[FrechToastFries]

He explicitly said hard working... nothing about being serious or smart.

Well I didn’t think I’d need to spell it out. Most students who are not serious or smart tend to be those who seem like they don’t work hard.

 

[sab3156]

I agree that it’s the right thing to do. That said, I am kind of glad I missed this change.

I have already heard from ophthalmology faculty saying that it is going to make it much harder for them (if not impossible) to seriously consider applicants from lower tier schools. I don't know about this being the right thing to do or not, but the fact is that it has a huge potential to royally screw a lot of people. I don't see this ending well for anyone not going to a top 20 school. If Step 2 CK becomes the next big daddy exam, things might just stay the same, but who knows.

 

[FrechToastFries]

Lol, your offended by his observation, which by the way, has been my experience as well. It’s not a mindset, it’s just what we see happening in general.

I think shallow minded and arrogant to think that way. That people going into FM aren’t hard workers.

 

[libertyyne]

They’re not hard working because they don’t need to be. Half the **** you learn for step 1 and in lectures is useless. If you could match into ortho/derm/any other competitive specialty as easily as you can into FM, those guys wouldn’t be working hard either.

What you’re making it seem like is:
FM = not a serious/smart student

which is not the case, and that whole mindset is toxic.

They aint hard working on the wards either. When you have difficulty generating a differential, or dont remember basic abx for cellulitis or contraindications for a drug you are both not hard working and I do question your intelligence. Instead of a race to the bottom patients and families deserve better. You decided to come to medical school , work hard.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I have already heard from ophthalmology faculty saying that it is going to make it much harder for them (if not impossible) to seriously consider applicants from lower tier schools. I don't know about this being the right thing to do or not, but the fact is that it has a huge potential to royally screw a lot of people. I don't see this ending well for anyone not going to a top 20 school. If Step 2 CK becomes the next big daddy exam, things might just stay the same, but who knows.

I agree it’s bad for the most competitive specialties for us, but overall it’s better for most students. And eventually the competitive stuff will adjust. If they really want an exam they can make their own, rather than using the general boards.

 

[FrechToastFries]

They aint hard working on the wards either. When you have difficulty generating a diffrential, or dont remember basic abx for cellulitis or contraindications for a drug you are both not hard working and I do question your intelligence. Instead of a race to the bottom patients and families deserve better. You decided to come to medical school , work hard.

This is anecdotal evidence. How many students going into FM could you have possibly worked with that you’re now able to label every single FM bound med student as lazy. Sorry you had a bad experience, but there’s tons of hard working students interested in primary care specialties.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I think shallow minded and arrogant to think that way. That people going into FM aren’t hard workers.

Dude, I have some FM programs as a backup. I am not pissing on the field, but there is no doubt that the people who have been on the FM train from the beginning are not putting in the same kind of work.

 

[libertyyne]

This is anecdotal evidence. How many students going into FM could you have possibly worked with that you’re now able to label every single FM bound med student as lazy. Sorry you had a bad experience, but there’s tons of hard working students interested in primary care specialties.

this is not an isolated instance. This becomes instantly apparent when you realize that people of the bottom of the class constantly are funneled into FM. One look at AOA distribution or step distribution would tell you whats what. My intial post was lament about how FM doesnt get the respect it deserves. and how doing FM is hard. And we are sending our lowest quartiles into peds and FM.

 

[FrechToastFries]

Dude, I have some FM programs as a backup. I am not pissing on the field, but there is no doubt that the people who have been on the FM train from the beginning are not putting in the same kind of work.

"same kind of work."

Same as? I'm assuming you're talking about students gunning for ortho, derm, ophtho, or other competitive fields.

I'm not saying they are. They don't need to. Like I said in the earlier post, why waste you're time on useless crap from step 1 and lectures when you don't need to? But that's not to say they're all incompetent and lazily wondering around the hospital during 3rd year, which is what a lot of the posts in this thread are implying.

 

[FrechToastFries]

this is not an isolated instance. This becomes instantly apparent when you realize that people of the bottom of the class constantly are funneled into FM. One look at AOA distribution or step distribution would tell you whats what. My intial post was lament about how FM doesnt get the respect it deserves. and how doing FM is hard. And we are sending our lowest quartiles into peds and FM.

Not gonna waste my time. And don't wanna derail the thread further. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[tri99]

"same kind of work."

Same as? I'm assuming you're talking about students gunning for ortho, derm, ophtho, or other competitive fields.

I'm not saying they are. They don't need to. Like I said in the earlier post, why waste you're time on useless crap from step 1 and lectures when you don't need to? But that's not to say they're all incompetent and lazily wondering around the hospital during 3rd year, which is what a lot of the posts in this thread are implying.

Students planning to enter FM don’t NEED to memorize all of the minutiae for step 1 like those shooting for uber competitive specialties, but for most practical circumstances they SHOULD considering the potential breadth and depth of practice.

Either way, as of 2022 that won’t be an issue anymore.

 

[libertyyne]

Not gonna waste my time. And don't wanna derail the thread further. But we can agree to disagree.

Students planning to enter FM don’t NEED to memorize all of the minutiae for step 1 like those shooting for uber competitive specialties, but for most practical circumstances they SHOULD considering the potential breadth and depth of practice.

Either way, as of 2022 that won’t be an issue anymore.

And in this one chart we will show how they arent even memorizing management questions at the level an average medical student does.

 

[hallowmann]

This. Honestly if I were matching a few years from now I wouldn't even look at the websites of half the programs I will be applying to, and expecting a handful of interviews from currently. The ceiling for DO's just came crashing down for 99% of applicants, and the only ones it won't effect will be the handful of outliers with significant connections, research, excellent letters, etc.



You sound delusional.



Are you trying to compensate for something? Serious question.

I really think you are making this bigger than it is. I think it's problematic for a number of reasons, but people will just take Step 2 CK as the more important exam. Everyone will take it before Sept and it will be the same it is now, but with students having even less time to see what their scores are and target their apps.

If Step 2 CK was also P/F then, yeah, it would suck for everyone outside the T20, but I'm pretty sure both programs and students will be able to adjust quickly. There may be a year or two where people adjust, but it'll happen.

This is absolutely a huge turnoff to me. You are judged by the peers you keep. Primary care could be a very fulfilling career if its image became better and the reimbursement improved a bit, and there was less reflexive consulting specialists because they dont get paid to manage complex patients. If the reimbursement of Primary care was equivalent to say derm it would change the landscape of medical school and medicine.
that and if noctors were not out there claiming equivalency with a fraction of training.

That honestly doesn't sound like the majority of the people I interacted with who wanted to do primary care from the beginning. I will say there was a smaller subset of people that wanted to do primary care from the beginning, because they didn't want to work hard in med school, but most people that want to be good primary care doctors are taking every rotation seriously. They might not spend as much time memorizing the minutiae they will never have to manage, but you bet they'll be reading up on how to treat patients, how lots of rare and common conditions present and how to treat people acutely until they get to a specialist. Those lazier people also got weeded out once they realized primary care isn't as "easy" from a logistical standpoint.

To be honest, the laziest people I remember were the ones that were going into Rads. Occasionally you'd get a really motivated person, but most of the Rads people never wanted to carry their own weight as far as patients go. This is all anecdote though. It's probably because the bad people stand out, gotta love recall bias.

I’m will begin next semester as a DO student who is confident that I want to pursue family medicine (possibly psychiatry but most likely not)... Is it possible that this usmle pass/fail decision maybe beneficial for someone in my position?


My reasoning is that fewer students are going to attend International medical schools, so therefore there will be less competition for family medicine residencies...


Does this make sense? Do you think this will actually substatially change IMG numbers? And therefore allow less compition for FM?

It's not going to help. There are way to many new school openings to change a thing, even if Carib schools start closing.

 

[hallowmann]

And in this one chart we will show how they arent even memorizing management questions at the level an average medical student does.
View attachment 295597

All this proves is that FM is less competitive, so of course the people who do poorly or fail boards go into it. Weren't you the same one who posted above that the reason it's not competitive is because reimbursement is low and there's midlevel encroachment?:

Primary care is not degrading for that reason. Primary care is unpopular because we have noctors claiming equivlency, having poor reimbursement, and the bottom of our classes filling it droves.

 

[NecrotizingFasciitis]

COMLEX is trash. No one knows how to interpret the score cause the NBOME (just like the AOA) is incompetent and corrupt. You should hope that they eliminate the licensing requirement to take COMLEX, which will never happen, cause for some reason ($$$$) we need to be licensed via a separate pathway than our MD counterparts.

Do yourself a favor and avoid DO school if you can. I was a pre-med once and mostly ignored the DO talk on here ("Oh, I can tolerate a few hours of OMM a week"); but now my friends and I repeatedly wish we tried harder to get into allopathic school. Yes, I am now a self-loathing DO.

& the COMATs are garbage.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

It’s bad business for the NBME to make this decision. They did it because it was the right thing to do. They will lose money by making it pass/fail.


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Lol, this is the same organization that made CS mandatory for all USMD's on a whim.... trust me, there will be a financial benefit for them from this in the end.

That people going into FM aren’t hard workers.

Some are, many are not.

I really think you are making this bigger than it is. I think it's problematic for a number of reasons, but people will just take Step 2 CK as the more important exam. Everyone will take it before Sept and it will be the same it is now, but with students having even less time to see what their scores are and target their apps.

If Step 2 CK was also P/F then, yeah, it would suck for everyone outside the T20, but I'm pretty sure both programs and students will be able to adjust quickly. There may be a year or two where people adjust, but it'll happen.

I don't really see how Step 2 will remain scored for very long. "Step 2 Mania" will be a thing very quickly, and the clinicians won't appreciate being blown off on rounds by students cranking through the Dorian deck or UWorld on their phones.

 

[libertyyne]

All this proves is that FM is less competitive, so of course the people who do poorly or fail boards go into it. Weren't you the same one who posted above that the reason it's not competitive is because reimbursement is low and there's midlevel encroachment?:

Step 2 CK is not an exam that is used in every specialty for screening. but even with that point either it is that people want to go into primary care dont work hard enough to be average in terms of step 2 ck which is a clinical exam for management, or people that perform the worse end up going into primary care. Either way the people not working hard are filling up the positions enough to make it the specialty with the lowest scores in terms of both AOA members and step 2 ck averages. So there are either less hard working people on average in FM or a greater number of less hard working people on average go into FM and overwhelm the few that are hardworking.