USMLE Step 1 -- Pass / Fail Starting Jan 2022

[Khan123567]

Nobody says that you can’t stop dreaming.

But realistically no??

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[Whysoez]

ah I see.
So what I have gathered is that working at a small community hospital as an IM won’t be affected and specializing in an IM specialty should still be doable ??

Not if community IM programs suddenly become everyone's backup, then that will increase competitiveness.

 

[Epilepsy365]

But realistically no??

I am a student at an established DO school with our own teaching hospital and shared ACGME teaching hospitals.

I can tell you after an extensive conversation with my program Cards PD that they will go for the best candidate regardless if the person is in house or outside.

 

[libertyyne]

Why would they ever assume everyone is average?

Because by definition most people are average .

 

[Giovanotto]

Where are the mods when we need them? Why aren't all these same threads being merged?

 

[deleted859689]

Where are the mods when we need them? Why aren't all these same threads being merged?

Sdn is brokeded

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Where are the mods when we need them? Why aren't all these same threads being merged?

Don’t worry this will all blow over. I am sure our guiding verified experts will be here soon to tell us this will all be fine and nothing will change, DOs breaking through the glass ceiling every year , repeat etc.

 

[OneSummerPhoton]

First they merged AOA and ACGME under GME. Now they make Step 1 pass or fail... does anyone else think this was a plot all along ....

 

[BorntobeDO?]

First they merged AOA and ACGME under GME. Now they make Step 1 pass or fail... does anyone else think this was a plot all along ....

I hope so, I have my $55 ready for the MD conversion whenever they are ready....

 

[OneSummerPhoton]

I hope so, I have my $55 ready for the MD conversion whenever they are ready....

Loll. I think I'll go with the "just name the price, I'll take it."

 

[iamdamiancray]

I'm not sure if that's gonna happen. At least among the DO schools, this will make it easy for them to push the agenda of driving their students into primary care.

Why the heck do people not think of the ex AOA programs?


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[Med.School.Hopeful]

Currently accepted into 5 DO schools, on waitlist at 2, and on waitlist at 1 MD school. Does the P/F change affect where someone should attend medical school? I know a lot of people say go to school with the cheapest tuition or choose based on location but does this change things? Is it more important now to go to an older and perhaps more established DO school (if I don't get off the waitlist at the MD school)?

So far been accepted into both PCOM GA schools, CCOM, Nova Southeastern, and KCOM.

 

[BoneWizard]

Why the heck do people not think of the ex AOA programs?


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Because there's not many of them and some are already taking MDs.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

At least COMLEX is scored so at least we can differentiate ourselves that way.

 

[Whysoez]

At least COMLEX is scored so at least we can differentiate ourselves that way.

And who will care that you are better than your follow DOs when they will only look at MD apps? Ex-AOA spots are too limited to save us all.

 

[deleted859689]

And who will care that you are better than your follow DOs when they will only look at MD apps? Ex-AOA spots are too limited to save us all.

go MD

 

[Whysoez]

go MD

Can't, I am in too deep lol

 

[Scrubb]

At least COMLEX is scored so at least we can differentiate ourselves that way.

COMLEX is trash. No one knows how to interpret the score cause the NBOME (just like the AOA) is incompetent and corrupt. You should hope that they eliminate the licensing requirement to take COMLEX, which will never happen, cause for some reason ($$$$) we need to be licensed via a separate pathway than our MD counterparts.

Do yourself a favor and avoid DO school if you can. I was a pre-med once and mostly ignored the DO talk on here ("Oh, I can tolerate a few hours of OMM a week"); but now my friends and I repeatedly wish we tried harder to get into allopathic school. Yes, I am now a self-loathing DO.

 

[deleted859689]

Can't, I am in too deep lol

Come join me on the frontlines of primary care in the middle of nowhere

 

[Whysoez]

Come join me on the frontlines of primary care in the middle of nowhere

Be right there

 

[iamdamiancray]

COMLEX is trash. No one knows how to interpret the score cause the NBOME (just like the AOA) is incompetent and corrupt. You should hope that they eliminate the licensing requirement to take COMLEX, which will never happen, cause for some reason ($$$$) we need to be licensed via a separate pathway than our MD counterparts.

Do yourself a favor and avoid DO school if you can. I was a pre-med once and mostly ignored the DO talk on here ("Oh, I can tolerate a few hours of OMM a week"); but now my friends and I repeatedly wish we tried harder to get into allopathic school. Yes, I am now a self-loathing DO.

Why? You guys didn’t match or didn’t get a job?


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[Scrubb]

Why? You guys didn’t match or didn’t get a job?


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I’m still in med school bud. No, it’s cause the DO leadership is incompetent and OMM is a huge, extremely cringe-worthy, useless time sink. I owe everything to Sattar and Dr.Ryan while my school is making $60k off doing nothing for me. It’s a scam.

 

[iamdamiancray]

I’m still in med school bud. No, it’s cause the DO leadership is incompetent and OMM is a huge, extremely cringe-worthy, useless time sink. I owe everything to Sattar and Dr.Ryan while my school is making $60k off doing nothing for me. It’s a scam.

American medical schooling is a scam. 99% DOs will still have a job making half a million dollars eventually. You’ve COMLEX to take. USMLE is technically extra credit. Study. Let the MDs worry about this one.


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[Khan123567]

American medical schooling is a scam. 99% DOs will still have a job making half a million dollars eventually. You’ve COMLEX to take. USMLE is technically extra credit. Study. Let the MDs worry about this one.


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Doesn’t the merger change this for DO students?

 

[iamdamiancray]

Doesn’t the merger change this for DO students?

Yes, man. People gets paranoid about everything.


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[Khan123567]

Yes, man. People gets paranoid about everything.


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As some one who will likely be attending a DO school, I am just trying to figure out if doing a specialty will still be possible in IM. ( I know some people already said yes that although it will be more difficult it will be doable) I am just wondering if the combination of merger + step 1 p/np will make it near impossible.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

As some one who will likely be attending a DO school, I am just trying to figure out if doing a specialty will still be possible in IM. ( I know some people already said yes that although it will be more difficult it will be doable) I am just wondering if the combination of merger + step 1 p/np will make it near impossible.

IM/FM/Peds are among the least competitive specialties. If DOs can't even match IM then we can't match anything. Stop being paranoid, you will be fine. Unless you're talking about top tier IM (Harvard. Yale, NYU, WashU, ect...), in which case it was already hard for DOs to begin with even before the merger.

 

[Khan123567]

IM/FM/Peds are among the least competitive specialties. If DOs can't even match IM then we can't match anything. Stop being paranoid, you will be fine. Unless you're talking about top tier IM (Harvard. Yale, NYU, WashU, ect...), in which it was already hard for DOs to begin with even before the merger.

Lol no all I want to do is cardiology that’s why I was worried

 

[iamdamiancray]

As some one who will likely be attending a DO school, I am just trying to figure out if doing a specialty will still be possible in IM. ( I know some people already said yes that although it will be more difficult it will be doable) I am just wondering if the combination of merger + step 1 p/np will make it near impossible.

If you wanna do IM, 100% go to a DO school. There are TONS of ex AOA and 95% MD programs that PREFER DO kids for IM. What’s tougher for DO kids are very high competitive specialties like Neurosurgery, Orthopedic Surgery, Ophthalmology, etc. IM is primary care. Also, if you’re concerned about fellowships, lots of DO schools like PCOM or Nova have their own fellowships. Don’t worry. Also, SDN has existed for 20 years or so. The “SDN hate” against DOs have existed for that duration as well. But it didn’t stop the 98% DO match rate. Don’t let SDN be a judge to your career, especially when the aim is IM.


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[iamdamiancray]

Lol no all I want to do is cardiology that’s why I was worried

Tons of ex AOA and present ACGME Cardiology fellowships available for DOs. Don’t worry.


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[BorntobeDO?]

Currently accepted into 5 DO schools, on waitlist at 2, and on waitlist at 1 MD school. Does the P/F change affect where someone should attend medical school? I know a lot of people say go to school with the cheapest tuition or choose based on location but does this change things? Is it more important now to go to an older and perhaps more established DO school (if I don't get off the waitlist at the MD school)?

So far been accepted into both PCOM GA schools, CCOM, Nova Southeastern, and KCOM.

Hmm, out of those options, if I had to pick one school I would do Kirksville, unluess you meant KYCOM in which case I don’t like any really. CCOM is just too expensive, Nova sold out with their branch campus and starting an MD school beside their DO one, and has rando rotations during 4th year that you cannot change. PCOM Ga and it’s branch campus are flooding their area with no increase in GME to show for it. Plus PCOM Ga went back to grades from their former P/F eliminating a true reason to like.

Actually if you really know your on the waitlist at an MD it means your close. I was in a similar situation when I applied DO late in my first cycle. Having been through the whole shebang now I would recommend improving the app and going MD with the kind of profile your describing.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I would bet that giving a student a numeric score and then clawing the score back later and reporting it as P/F will not happen. The state medical boards get transcripts of the scores FSMB | Exam Transcripts (USMLE, FLEX, SPEX)
Imo it would make no sense to report numerical scores to state medical boards and not report numerical scores to residency programs.

That’s interesting. Another cottage industry that will be killed. Go NBME for choosing students over all these side business that make money off of licensing exams.

 

[libertyyne]

I hope so, I have my $55 ready for the MD conversion whenever they are ready....

I'll be on the other side waiting with a flute of champagne. No omm residency folks though, they get to have their degree converted to chiro.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

If you wanna do IM, 100% go to a DO school. There are TONS of ex AOA and 95% MD programs that PREFER DO kids for IM. What’s tougher for DO kids are very high competitive specialties like Neurosurgery, Orthopedic Surgery, Ophthalmology, etc. IM is primary care. Also, if you’re concerned about fellowships, lots of DO schools like PCOM or Nova have their own fellowships. Don’t worry. Also, SDN has existed for 20 years or so. The “SDN hate” against DOs have existed for that duration as well. But it didn’t stop the 98% DO match rate. Don’t let SDN be a judge to your career, especially when the aim is IM.


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His aim is cards, not IM, he should absolutely try to go MD. You all don’t seem to know the difference between a university IM program and a rando community IM residency. Yes both docs are IM, but one has a whole lot more options for fellowship. And this has made it harder to get academic IMs, many DOs relies on scores to get these positions. We never had the research or the programs. Anyway, ignore me: become me. The cycle will ever cont.

 

[PC89]

His aim is cards, not IM, he should absolutely try to go MD. You all don’t seem to know the difference between a university IM program and a rando community IM residency. Yes both docs are IM, but one has a whole lot more options for fellowship. And this has made it harder to get academic IMs, many DOs relies on scores to get these positions. We never had the research or the programs. Anyway, ignore me: become me. The cycle will ever cont.

Agreed, the need for a step 1 score to get your foot in the door of academic programs is very necessary. Also, community IM can match Cards but it will be challenging due to less research, networking, and name brand. A university IM program is still challenging for most DOs to get into due to biases, name, no AOA, etc.

 

[Dr. Death]

I would bet that giving a student a numeric score and then clawing the score back later and reporting it as P/F will not happen. The state medical boards get transcripts of the scores FSMB | Exam Transcripts (USMLE, FLEX, SPEX)
Imo it would make no sense to report numerical scores to state medical boards and not report numerical scores to residency programs.

Agree. The scores reported will be the three digit. That then goes on your USMLE transcript which is sent to programs. No chance the USMLE retroactively changes all those score reports and transcripts that occurred prior to 1/1/22

 

[deleted831695]

I thought the DO subforum was miserable enough, then comes this news.

Whatever guys. Life throws its BS punches. In the end, everyone here will be physicians. We will be better paid (even in god forbid primary care) than most people in a highly respected and satisfying profession.

Hopefully in the future some of us will get involved in leadership and work to change things to create more equal opportunity.

 

[Epilepsy365]

I would bet that giving a student a numeric score and then clawing the score back later and reporting it as P/F will not happen. The state medical boards get transcripts of the scores FSMB | Exam Transcripts (USMLE, FLEX, SPEX)
Imo it would make no sense to report numerical scores to state medical boards and not report numerical scores to residency programs.

You just give a glimmer of hope to all current OMS-1s out there. Bless your soul.

 

[rg2o3]

I hate it when people talk about "COMPLEX step 1".
It is COMLEX.

To be fair, most autocorrects change COMLEX to COMPLEX.

 

[rg2o3]

I’m still in med school bud. No, it’s cause the DO leadership is incompetent and OMM is a huge, extremely cringe-worthy, useless time sink. I owe everything to Sattar and Dr.Ryan while my school is making $60k off doing nothing for me. It’s a scam.

We're paying our school for a degree. We pay external resources to learn medicine. It's ridiculous. All while our schools just hinder our learning.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

To be fair, most autocorrects change COMLEX to COMPLEX.

Just like Underserved gets auto-corrected to undeserved.

 

[Khan123567]

His aim is cards, not IM, he should absolutely try to go MD. You all don’t seem to know the difference between a university IM program and a rando community IM residency. Yes both docs are IM, but one has a whole lot more options for fellowship. And this has made it harder to get academic IMs, many DOs relies on scores to get these positions. We never had the research or the programs. Anyway, ignore me: become me. The cycle will ever cont.

I am so ****ed! I only got interviews for DO schools

 

[JimBone905]

I am so ****ed! I only got interviews for DO schools

Again, if you have good clinical grades and at least a pub or two with a "pass"in usmle and a good comlex, you can get into a decent IM with a fair shot at a fellowship. Its not the end of the world imo. Good DOs will still be able to get good spots.

 

[Whysoez]

Again, if you have good clinical grades and at least a pub or two with a "pass"in usmle and a good comlex, you can get into a decent IM with a fair shot at a fellowship. Its not the end of the world imo. Good DOs will still be able to get good spots.

Dont count on a pub or two lol

 

[Khan123567]

Again, if you have good clinical grades and at least a pub or two with a "pass"in usmle and a good comlex, you can get into a decent IM with a fair shot at a fellowship. Its not the end of the world imo. Good DOs will still be able to get good spots.

Honestly am really counting on that at this point

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Dont count on a pub or two lol

Hardly impossible, clinical research can get pubs over a summer. Just need to be willing to travel far/out of state to do the research over summer tho

 

[JimBone905]

Also helps if you are pubbed from undergrad

 

[ohmanwaddup]

I get that. But why hate on primary care in general? DO med students especially (you can see it all over this forum) talk about primary care doctors like it's the worst thing that could happen to you. You routinely see sarcastic comments on here like "Well I hope you're happy being a PC doc" and "have fun with IM/FM". I can understand someone not wanting to be forced into it, but the hate for it is puzzling.

People find primary care degrading for some reason. Personally I think its just a byproduct of people not growing past the competitive streak needed to get into and pass medical school. Those who see it as a race against their peers instead of a race against themselves

 

[Stressmed]

People find primary care degrading for some reason. Personally I think its just a byproduct of people not growing past the competitive streak needed to get into and pass medical school. Those who see it as a race against their peers instead of a race against themselves

Lol i have no clue. Personally im going for FM and if someone ****s on me for that so be it. Gotta keep my chin up and skin thick.

 

[Alkaidius]

People find primary care degrading for some reason. Personally I think its just a byproduct of people not growing past the competitive streak needed to get into and pass medical school. Those who see it as a race against their peers instead of a race against themselves

It’s not flashy and you gotta actually talk to people. To be truly happy as a primary care doc, you have to not care about being thanked for a job well done, because you likely won’t be. Patients rarely appreciate prevention of a disease unless they’ve seen it in action before in a relative or friend.

People that look down their nose at patients, think they’re idiots, require that dose of dopamine from a daily “oh, thank you doctor, you’re a miracle worker”, or all around can’t empathize with the struggles of someone less gifted/privileged than them are literally not built for it, and they know it. A person like that being forced to do this will pick the first opportunity they can to gtfo and good riddance.