USMLE score and anesthesiology

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DOaz

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I recently got my USMLE score back and didn't do as well as I thought I would. Scored a 198, much lower than any practice exam I took. I realize that MD anesthesiology is extremely competitive so have I eliminated myself from matching? Not to picky on where I end up, preferably not the east coast but thats not out of the question. Thanks, feel free to message me also
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If you kill Step 2, anything is possible. Work hard and good things will happen to you. Doing an away rotation or 2 at DO friendly "lower tier" programs and really aiming to impress could be advantageous. Several good threads on here on what to do (and not do) as a med student on an ensthesia elective can be accessed by searching around on here.
 
Thanks for your response, I have done some searching but couldn't find anything recent.
 
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I know this wasn't the topic of this thread per se but have had no luck searching for current info on this. I did not take USMLE but have a pretty darn good COMLEX score and was hoping to find out what allo programs are open to DO's without a USMLE? I don't want to waste money on programs that won't take a second look at me. I plan to apply osteo too but since there are so few spots I wanted to apply broadly to help land a spot somewhere! I really appreciate any and all help! Thanks!
 
hawthorne said:
I know this wasn't the topic of this thread per se but have had no luck searching for current info on this. I did not take USMLE but have a pretty darn good COMLEX score and was hoping to find out what allo programs are open to DO's without a USMLE? I don't want to waste money on programs that won't take a second look at me. I plan to apply osteo too but since there are so few spots I wanted to apply broadly to help land a spot somewhere! I really appreciate any and all help! Thanks!
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I'm not a PD or on an adcom, but I doubt that any allo program would take an applicant without a USMLE. It's the very basis for applicant selection and not taking it would suggest either that you were ignorant of the requirement or lacked sufficient motivation to complete this basic step. I'm trying to think of a way to find this out and I can't imagine that programs would specifically mention this in their application materials or websites. You'll probably have to contact program administrators/PDs directly to ask.

To the OP, your score is very low. It is nearly 2 SD below the mean, and barely above passing (is 188 still the passing bar?). It is always possible that you'll nail step 2 (statistically, this is unlikely) and that you'll secure enough interviews to get in, but it would be prudent to have a back-up (even just a number of prelim/transitional programs to do an internship from which you could potentially apply for a PGY2 spot that might open up someplace). This isn't meant to sound harsh or discouraging, but banking on the "anything's possible, just go for it" plan doesn't leave all your options open. Preparing yourself now to apply to LOTS of programs and to have a back up in a less competitive specialty will help you match into SOMETHING come match day. Graduating medical school without post-graduate training would be a miserable feeling.
 
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Thanks so much, there is alot of great info in that.
 
cchoukal said:
I'm not a PD or on an adcom, but I doubt that any allo program would take an applicant without a USMLE. It's the very basis for applicant selection and not taking it would suggest either that you were ignorant of the requirement or lacked sufficient motivation to complete this basic step. I'm trying to think of a way to find this out and I can't imagine that programs would specifically mention this in their application materials or websites. You'll probably have to contact program administrators/PDs directly to ask.

To the OP, your score is very low. It is nearly 2 SD below the mean, and barely above passing (is 188 still the passing bar?). It is always possible that you'll nail step 2 (statistically, this is unlikely) and that you'll secure enough interviews to get in, but it would be prudent to have a back-up (even just a number of prelim/transitional programs to do an internship from which you could potentially apply for a PGY2 spot that might open up someplace). This isn't meant to sound harsh or discouraging, but banking on the "anything's possible, just go for it" plan doesn't leave all your options open. Preparing yourself now to apply to LOTS of programs and to have a back up in a less competitive specialty will help you match into SOMETHING come match day. Graduating medical school without post-graduate training would be a miserable feeling.
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Also not a PD/Adcom but I know for a fact of at least one allo program that has accepted DOs without USMLE... But I only know one... :D

Good luck, I have no advice to give you... Sorry.
 
St Louis University. No USMLE necessary. Just mention that you love Budweiser, the Cards, and Nelly in your personal statement and you will be in.
 
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Honestly, I would think that your chances at a top tier MD program are quite limited. I would apply to some mid-lower tier programs in less desirable areas and kill step 2. Have you considered applying to DO residencies? How did you do on COMLEX? Some programs look at both I believe.
 
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Is there a score on step1 above which you get no additional benefits when applying for anesthesia? Would 260 get preference over 240 at a place like Arizona? How about 250 vs 240?
 
Ballints said:
Is there a score on step1 above which you get no additional benefits when applying for anesthesia? Would 260 get preference over 240 at a place like Arizona? How about 250 vs 240?
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At Arizona, they are probably more likely to question whether you're going to actually rank them highly over other great programs like Hopkins or MGH.
 
DOaz said:
I recently got my USMLE score back and didn't do as well as I thought I would. Scored a 198, much lower than any practice exam I took. I realize that MD anesthesiology is extremely competitive so have I eliminated myself from matching? Not to picky on where I end up, preferably not the east coast but thats not out of the question. Thanks, feel free to message me also
Click to expand...

So, similar situation. Trying to narrow down a list of programs to apply to, right now I'm just making sure I don't apply to an "DO unfriendly" program without knowing. So any of these I shouldn't waste my time with?


Medical College of Georgia
U of Kansas Wichita
Kentucky
Ochsner Clinic Foundation New Orleans
Tulane
LSU New Orleans
LSU Shreveport
Maine Medical Center
Tufts
St Elizabeth Medical Center
William Beaumont Hospital
U of Minnesota
U of Nebraska
Cooper University Hospital
St. Barnabas Medical Center
UMDNJ Robert Wood Johnson
UMDNJ New Jersey
Albany Medical Center
Albert Einstein
Maimonides Medical Center
NY Methodist
SUNY Brooklyn
U at Buffalo
St. Luke's Roosevelt
U of Rochester
SUNY Stony Brook
SUNY Upstate Syracuse
NYMC
Wake Forest
U of Cincinnati
U of Toledo
U of Oklahoma
Penn State
Drexel
Temple
Allegheny Western Pennsylvania Hospital
UTSW
UT Galveston
Vermont
U Virginia
West Virginia
 
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TeamZissou said:
So, similar situation. Trying to narrow down a list of programs to apply to, right now I'm just making sure I don't apply to an "DO unfriendly" program without knowing. So any of these I shouldn't waste my time with?


Medical College of Georgia
U of Kansas Wichita
Kentucky
Ochsner Clinic Foundation New Orleans
Tulane
LSU New Orleans
LSU Shreveport
Maine Medical Center
Tufts
St Elizabeth Medical Center
William Beaumont Hospital
U of Minnesota
U of Nebraska
Cooper University Hospital
St. Barnabas Medical Center
UMDNJ Robert Wood Johnson
UMDNJ New Jersey
Albany Medical Center
Albert Einstein
Maimonides Medical Center
NY Methodist
SUNY Brooklyn
U at Buffalo
St. Luke’s Roosevelt
U of Rochester
SUNY Stony Brook
SUNY Upstate Syracuse
NYMC
Wake Forest
U of Cincinnati
U of Toledo
U of Oklahoma
Penn State
Drexel
Temple
Allegheny Western Pennsylvania Hospital
UTSW
UT Galveston
Vermont
U Virginia
West Virginia
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I see that you have a couple Texas programs...you may wish to add UT Houston to your list. They take DOs, and in fact, one of the chiefs this year is a DO. Plus Houston is a way better city to live in than Galveston!
 
Stellar Clouds said:
I see that you have a couple Texas programs...you may wish to add UT Houston to your list. They take DOs, and in fact, one of the chiefs this year is a DO. Plus Houston is a way better city to live in than Galveston!
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I would also add Chicago programs to your list, e.g. UIC, Loyola, and Rush. They all seem DO friendly.
 
I should mention I already have a good list of ~40 programs I'm definitely applying to.

UTH is on the list.

As are the Chicago programs.
 
I didn't see KU, U of AZ, UConn or Louisville on your list, all four have accepted DO's in the past.



I may be wrong, but I don't think any of these programs have had DO's in the recent past.
Ochsner Clinic Foundation New Orleans
Tulane
LSU New Orleans
LSU Shreveport
U of Nebraska
SUNY Stony Brook
Wake Forest
U Virginia
 
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TeamZissou said:
I should mention I already have a good list of ~40 programs I'm definitely applying to.

UTH is on the list.

As are the Chicago programs.
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Apply to way more than 40...I am a DO and had USMLE scores pretty similar to the average matched US Senior, I applied to ~70 programs, and received 14 interviews. Do well on your step 2ck, apply early and often.
 
gasblaster said:
UVa is one of the more competitive programs even for above average MDs.
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Good to know, thank you.

kazuma said:
I didn't see KU, U of AZ, UConn or Louisville on your list, all four have accepted DO's in the past.

I may be wrong, but I don't think any of these programs have had DO's in the recent past.
Ochsner Clinic Foundation New Orleans
Tulane
LSU New Orleans
LSU Shreveport
U of Nebraska
SUNY Stony Brook
Wake Forest
U Virginia
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KU, AZ, UConn are on the list. I didn't see any DO's in Louisville's resident classes. Wake Forest has some but I didn't know if they were a score heavy program or not.

redrumi said:
Apply to way more than 40...I am a DO and had USMLE scores pretty similar to the average matched US Senior, I applied to ~70 programs, and received 14 interviews. Do well on your step 2ck, apply early and often.
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This isn't very encouraging...
 
TeamZissou said:
Good to know, thank you.



KU, AZ, UConn are on the list. I didn't see any DO's in Louisville's resident classes. Wake Forest has some but I didn't know if they were a score heavy program or not.



This isn't very encouraging...
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Yeah, I'm an IMG and I have the same problem. I was planning on applying to at least 100 programs if not more. The good thing is you can always go for a prelim year.

Are DO friendly program generally IMG friendly as well or not necessarily?
 
Y'all are forgetting that programs now are "all in" and thus, FMGs/IMGs can't pre-match.

So, those who may be "FMG/IMG" friendly (historically) may very well not be in this match and in the future.
 
Take step two, apply very broad

For what it's worth these programs gave me an interview

Tufts
Uw Seattle
U Chicago
St Luke's
Cincy
Ohio state
Loyola
Uc Davis
Ccf
Uic
Harbor ucla
St Joseph's
Georgetown

Include the above programs to your list, saw a ton of do people on the interview trail, really liked most of the places I visited too
 
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Ronin786 said:
We're prematches that prevalent for Anesthesia in the first place? I thought that was mainly for IM and FM.
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True, IM and FM heavily prematched. But, they were not uncommon in anesthesiology as well. It was a way of ensuring programs filled by recruting and locking in top IMGs. Probably not too many top tier programs did that, but the mid tier & up-and-comers often did. It happened a lot more 5-10 years ago when anesthesia was less competitive and likely tapered off more recently.

I'm basing this off of hear-say from program directors coupled with educated guesswork, take it as you will.
 
Congrats to everyone that has matched! Anybody match with similar scores to mine that would be willing to share some info via PM. I would greatly appreciate it, congrats again everyone
 
DOaz said:
Congrats to everyone that has matched! Anybody match with similar scores to mine that would be willing to share some info via PM. I would greatly appreciate it, congrats again everyone
Click to expand...

+1

Or just put it in the thread...
 
TeamZissou said:
Good to know, thank you.



KU, AZ, UConn are on the list. I didn't see any DO's in Louisville's resident classes. Wake Forest has some but I didn't know if they were a score heavy program or not.



This isn't very encouraging...
Click to expand...

First bit
Anecdote, relayed to me by the person of whom I speak - a 2011 graduate of an osteopathic college that may or may not be on a lake directly adjacent to lake Ontario scored low on his step 1 (similar score to yours) rocked the step 2 (not sure what he scored, 230s I think) and matched at Penn State. So - your situation is salvagable. He also killed on his auditions.

Second bit
Consider Ohio, Pennsylvania and NY. The higher presence of DO schools in the area, I believe, has bred familiarity and acceptance in a lot of the programs.
Specifically, I would add Case Western university hospital and Case Western Metro Health to your list. Cleveland's weather sucks, but there is some fantastic food in the city. 3 of us were offered interviews at CWUH.

Third bit
I dont think you are obligated to report your step 1 score (someone who knows more than me, please correct me if I'm wrong) . It will limit your options, but its not a death sentence. Do some homework, call the programs, see for yourself. If you did well on comlex, you may be in less trouble than you think..

My question, which I am too lazy to research, is, can you selectively report scores as a DO i.e can an osteopathic student take step 1 and step 2 and only report step 2?
 
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Unfortunately it's now a rule you must report the usmle if you took it. But to be honest in talking to PDs it seems they even prefer to see a 200 bc at least it's passing. We shall see, I was able to get some LORs from my MS-III elective in Anesthesia but the hospital doesn't have a gas program. I was a bit worried I would need to rely on one audition rotation in August to get Anesthesia from. I don't have many electives during the July-Jan months.
 
I just matched into a categorical anesthesiology program with a step 1 of a 204, and a friend of mine matched with a 198. you have never completely counted yourself out until you give up.
 
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Infexious said:
How dare you!?! This is SDN and no one matches into anesthesia without at least a 260 on both steps.
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:laugh::laugh::laugh: SDN, home of the passive aggressive gunners.
2960360275_cfbc1469c6_o.png
 
Infexious said:
How dare you!?! This is SDN and no one matches into anesthesia without at least a 260 on both steps.
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Hahahaha I know I'm awful for giving people hope. I just call things like I see them; I didn't give up and I got 11 anesthesia interviews, matched into a categorical program, and I'm going to be an anesthesiologist. I was not ranked by my top choice program, I know this because they didn't fill... And honestly that really hurt.... But I had to expect that not everyone was going to overlook every blemish on my record, and I was lucky to get an interview there.
 
Ok just finalizing my list, at 68 right now that don't have minimums or low enough to consider. Do you recommend applying to places with minimums that are higher, have heard of people getting interview without meeting the minimum for step 1. My step 2 wasn't stellar either 217, any advice would be great. Thanks for previous info has been very helpful
 
DOaz said:
Ok just finalizing my list, at 68 right now that don't have minimums or low enough to consider. Do you recommend applying to places with minimums that are higher, have heard of people getting interview without meeting the minimum for step 1. My step 2 wasn't stellar either 217, any advice would be great. Thanks for previous info has been very helpful
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im going to assume you arent applying DO? I think matching with a 198/217 is going to be very tough as a DO. Did you get some aways done? letters from those aways?

i wish you nothing but the best of luck, but have a backup plan ready. either dually apply to MD internships, or make sure youve done your research and are prepared to scramble into a DO residency.

in regards to your direct question, i probably wouldnt bother applying to places that I didnt hit their cut-off #
 
Philosiraptor said:
True, IM and FM heavily prematched. But, they were not uncommon in anesthesiology as well. It was a way of ensuring programs filled by recruting and locking in top IMGs. Probably not too many top tier programs did that, but the mid tier & up-and-comers often did. It happened a lot more 5-10 years ago when anesthesia was less competitive and likely tapered off more recently.

I'm basing this off of hear-say from program directors coupled with educated guesswork, take it as you will.
Click to expand...
So on the topic of prematches, I had the opportunity to speak with a PD of a very big program and he was saying that one of the reasons that IMGs weren't matching at his program was specifically because of prematches. They had a bunch of guys they'd rank highly, but then significantly worse programs would end up prematching them and they were taken off the rank lists. Should be interesting to see how the next few years turn out.
 
I have a couple always in both DO and MD, will hopefully have letters from majority of them. I appreciate your advice. Also feel free to PM me as well. Thanks
 
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Random Resident said:
I interviewed at Shreveport with a few DOs. But for the OP, with your Step 1 score, you could aim a lot higher, no offense. I didn't end up ranking them. There is 1 DO at UNMC, and I think I interviewed with a couple, too.
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He can aim hi..
 
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buccsmf1 said:
im going to assume you arent applying DO? I think matching with a 198/217 is going to be very tough as a DO. Did you get some aways done? letters from those aways?

i wish you nothing but the best of luck, but have a backup plan ready. either dually apply to MD internships, or make sure youve done your research and are prepared to scramble into a DO residency.

in regards to your direct question, i probably wouldnt bother applying to places that I didnt hit their cut-off #
Click to expand...


In my case
 
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