USAT stripped by ECFMG

[monserratdr]

Is anyone else enrolled in USAT and is wondering what they are going to do about the ECFMG stripping the school of eligibility to sit for the USMLE exams?

World Directory listing follows:

The information below has been provided by the World Directory’s sponsoring organizations.
Canada

Unless indicated otherwise, Medical degrees obtained from this medical school are acceptable to the provincial/territorial medical regulatory authorities in Canada, and therefore acceptable to all medical organizations in Canada. For more information about the acceptable medical schools as defined in the Model Standards for Medical Registration in Canada


À moins d’avis contraire, les diplômes de médecine de cette faculté de médecine sont acceptables aux ordres des médecins dans les provinces et territoires du Canada, et par conséquent acceptables à toute autre organisation au Canada qui œuvre dans le domaine médical. Pour plus d'information au sujet des facultés de médecine acceptables, telles que définies dans les normes modèles pour l'inscription médicale au Canada

Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG), United States of America

Students and graduates of this medical school are eligible to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification and for examination, provided that:

For medical school students officially enrolled in this school, the graduation years are listed below as “current”.

For graduates of this medical school, their graduation year is included in the graduation years listed below.

Graduation Years:

2003 - 2018

All other eligibility requirements are met. Refer to the ECFMG Information Booklet for detailed information.

Note: As of January 1, 2019, students and graduates of this medical school with a graduation year of 2019 and later are not eligible to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification, which also renders them ineligible to apply to ECFMG for the United States Medical Licensing Examinations (USMLE) as a step toward ECFMG Certification.

Currently, students and graduates of USAT are subject to enhanced procedures that must be met in order to be eligible to apply for ECFMG Certification related services, including but not limited to: ECFMG Certification, USMLE examinations that lead to ECFMG Certification, and Electronic Residency Application Service Support Services. ECFMG will provide information and instructions to applicants upon receipt of application

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[CognitiveNeuro]

I also heard about this since I know someone attending this place. Apparently they were conducting basic sciences classes in the US and didn't have permission to do that. I also heard all students are now desperately trying to transfer as soon as possible.

I'm just curious, how would program directors view these USAT graduates (that graduated before 2019) that are applying to the match? It would really suck if a high step scoring person ends up not matching because of this. Really interesting..

 

[Skip Intro]

They were not granted initial provisional accreditation by CAAM-HP in 2007, and they subsequently were formally listed as "not accredited" in 2012.

Caribbean Accreditation Authority for Education in Medicine and Other Health Professions - http://caam-hp.org

Why anyone would choose to attend following that listing is baffling. It doesn't matter if they are charging $100/semesters.

Part of "doing your own homework" includes referencing the CAAM-HP listings as one of your starting places early in the your decision process. If the school is "not accredited" in that listing, why on earth would you risk attending it?

There are no easy options on this path. You're not gonna pull the wool over anyone's eyes. You're not gonna "sneak into" the system. All shortcut artists get found out eventually.

-Skip

 

[Skip Intro]

I'm just curious, how would program directors view these USAT graduates (that graduated before 2019) that are applying to the match?

Not favorably.

-Skip

 

[CognitiveNeuro]

Not favorably.

-Skip

even if they score something like 265 on step 1? Do you think they would match anywhere with a score and graduating from a school like this?

 

[Skip Intro]

Tracking the Track Record

-Skip

 

[CognitiveNeuro]

Tracking the Track Record

-Skip

Thanks for your response but I'm asking even if the student scores highly in the steps, would program directors ignore that because they went to such a shady school? would they still have a good chance in matching once they score highly?

 

[Skip Intro]

Thanks for your response but I'm asking even if the student scores highly in the steps, would program directors ignore that because they went to such a shady school? would they still have a good chance in matching once they score highly?

I think a lot of medical students when applying for residency (and, yes, I can say this with direct authority) put way too much weight into the raw score believing that the USMLE score is like a "credit score" (i.e., the higher the number, the necessarily the better) and alone indicative of your worth to that program.

Think of it more like a screening tool, or a hurdle you have to jump over.

If you have a minimum passing score for that program that will get your application reviewed, then everything else becomes equally important. Every other part of your application comes into play. Your USMLE score is only one piece of the puzzle.

For example, if there are two candidates in the pile of all the applications who have met that minimum screening score, the applicant with a score even 30 points higher will not necessarily get the spot over his competitor who has great recommendation letters, interviews well, leaves a good impression, etc.

I have no idea what individual program directors think. I do know that, above all else, they want a resident who won't be a liability and is willing to learn. Scoring well on standardized tests help remove some doubt as to the latter, but does not completely assuage the former.

-Skip

 

[CognitiveNeuro]

If you have a minimum passing score for that program that will get your application reviewed, then everything else becomes equally important. Every other part of your application comes into play. Your USMLE score is only one piece of the puzzle.

For example, if there are two candidates in the pile of all the applications who have met that minimum screening score, the applicant with a score even 30 points higher will not necessarily get the spot over his competitor who has great recommendation letters, interviews well, leaves a good impression, etc.


-Skip

Oh I always thought this was different. For example, I remember reading the Program Director Survey (Search NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf on google because I can't post links) which gave a different rating for the factors and criteria used.

The only thing is I'm not seeing medical school reputation/ranking for IMGs on it.

I have no idea what individual program directors think. I do know that, above all else, they want a resident who won't be a liability and is willing to learn. Scoring well on standardized tests help remove some doubt as to the latter, but does not completely assuage the former.
-Skip

This makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Skip Intro]

... I remember reading the Program Director Survey (Search NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf on google because I can't post links) which gave a different rating for the factors and criteria used.

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NRMP-2018-Program-Director-Survey-for-WWW.pdf

The graph on Page 3 is what gets you the interview. The graph on Page 4 is what gets you the spot.

-Skip

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Is anyone else enrolled in USAT and is wondering what they are going to do about the ECFMG stripping the school of eligibility to sit for the USMLE exams?

There isn't much they can do. The ECFMG doesn't withdraw accreditation easily, so they must have done something bad. I don't see any online stories about this, so I don't know the details.

Students are stuck. You can try to transfer to a new school, but whether credits from an unaccredited school will count is anyone's guess -- and this will be up to the state board when you try to get your training license, so there's no way to be certain.

Well, actually there is something they can (theoretically) do. The can close USAT, and then open UTAS (Univeristy of Technology, Arts, and Sciences). It's a new school, so it has to jump through all the new school hoops, but there are multiple stories of offshore schools pulling shenanigans like this.

 

[ThomasP]

Is anyone else enrolled in USAT and is wondering what they are going to do about the ECFMG stripping the school of eligibility to sit for the USMLE exams?

Ideally transfer out but they won't give you the official transcripts. I've been e-mailing and calling them for 2 weeks now and they've never answered any of my calls or responded to the e-mails except one where they said they would get back to me soon and that's it. So how is it possible to transfer if they won't give you an official transcript? (and plus I paid off for all tuition)

Ridiculous.

USAT is such a scam.

The dean said this happened because there was a disgruntled former lecturer but the real reason was that he was conducting classes in the US illegally according to ECFMG. You also have nowhere to get any real information or updates to what's going on. Any post or comment that is remotely negative is removed from their facebook group and you're removed as well (and reported to the school). For example someone asked why they're not getting their transcripts and they were removed and someone else put up a list of schools accepting students with USAT credits and the girl was removed and the post deleted. Also the dean is hiring people (namely a guy named Conrad) to spread bull**** news like the ECFMG is going to remove the red flag and allow everyone to take the steps soon (by November)

Also, when ECFMG put up the initial writing that the school is under enhanced surveillance...the guy told everyone that it's "good news and things are looking up". Seriously I'm not joking.

It was such a waste of money and time. I accept my mistake for getting into this but I would just like people to know...stay away from this school and the people there.

 

[macroorchids]

They were not granted initial provisional accreditation by CAAM-HP in 2007, and they subsequently were formally listed as "not accredited" in 2012.

Why anyone would choose to attend following that listing is baffling. It doesn't matter if they are charging $100/semesters.

Part of "doing your own homework" includes referencing the CAAM-HP listings as one of your starting places early in the your decision process. If the school is "not accredited" in that listing, why on earth would you risk attending it?

There are no easy options on this path. You're not gonna pull the wool over anyone's eyes. You're not gonna "sneak into" the system. All shortcut artists get found out eventually.

-Skip

Nonsense. The ECFMG granted permits for the Step exams to USAT students for years and many USAT graduates matched at several residency programs throught SE USA: Tampa, Orlando, San Antonio, New Orleans, Atlanta, Gainesville, Miami, etc. We all know medical schools in the USA are factories. Even Faculty and admins at LCME schools confess this. There is no mentoring or shadowing per se, professional schools are all about numbers, a get em in, get em out assembly line scheme, and have little credibility as to possessing interest in developing medical students into compassionate, caring, socially aware future physicians. Be it Ross, St George, Dominican Republic, Guadalajara, University of Miami or University of X, Y and Z, it is all about money. To think that medical education has any mission or goal in forming future Marcus Welby’s or grads in the mold of Hippocrates shows how gullible you are. You graduated from Ross, while others graduated from Creighton, Washington. Northwestern, or LSU....all graduates are called “Doctor”. Whether they are excellent physicians or mediocre physicans like most today in America has more to do with their personal drive and nothing to do with the medical school where they dropped $250k.

There isn't much they can do. The ECFMG doesn't withdraw accreditation easily, so they must have done something bad. I don't see any online stories about this, so I don't know the details.

Students are stuck. You can try to transfer to a new school, but whether credits from an unaccredited school will count is anyone's guess -- and this will be up to the state board when you try to get your training license, so there's no way to be certain.

Well, actually there is something they can (theoretically) do. The can close USAT, and then open UTAS (Univeristy of Technology, Arts, and Sciences). It's a new school, so it has to jump through all the new school hoops, but there are multiple stories of offshore schools pulling shenanigans like this.

I contacted AUC about transferring and they informed me that USAT curriculum is not up to their standards. Uuufff.
At best they would grant me one semester with a Step 1 Score if they accepted me as a transfer. Double Uuuffff!

So it appears that if ECFMG will not grant current USAT students a permit to write the Step 1 Exam, we will have to wait when USAT sets up their school curriculum per ECFMG standards, start all over at a different Caribbean school or start over as Post-Baccs, study for the MCAT again (my last score is more than 7 years old) and apply to LCME schools. Overall this is a very disconcerning situation

Ideally transfer out but they won't give you the official transcripts. I've been e-mailing and calling them for 2 weeks now and they've never answered any of my calls or responded to the e-mails except one where they said they would get back to me soon and that's it. So how is it possible to transfer if they won't give you an official transcript? (and plus I paid off for all tuition)

Ridiculous.

USAT is such a scam.

The dean said this happened because there was a disgruntled former lecturer but the real reason was that he was conducting classes in the US illegally according to ECFMG. You also have nowhere to get any real information or updates to what's going on. Any post or comment that is remotely negative is removed from their facebook group and you're removed as well (and reported to the school). For example someone asked why they're not getting their transcripts and they were removed and someone else put up a list of schools accepting students with USAT credits and the girl was removed and the post deleted. Also the dean is hiring people (namely a guy named Conrad) to spread bull**** news like the ECFMG is going to remove the red flag and allow everyone to take the steps soon (by November)

Also, when ECFMG put up the initial writing that the school is under enhanced surveillance...the guy told everyone that it's "good news and things are looking up". Seriously I'm not joking.

It was such a waste of money and time. I accept my mistake for getting into this but I would just like people to know...stay away from this school and the people there.

Diagree. For experienced medical clinicans like us, who already have the competencies, some basic medical sciences knowledge and maturity, we found USAT attractive for a reason: the school is not a scam. There is no reason to cast aspersions at the admins of USAT. If you ever interacted with them, you would know they wanted us to graduate and succeed as other USAT graduates have

So let Dr Tulp work it out. He doesnt want to see his program go down and nor should we.
Wait and see what happens. It is not like all is final yet. ECFMG is still processing our affidavits, at least they told me as such on the phone last week.

 

[macroorchids]

Thanks for your response but I'm asking even if the student scores highly in the steps, would program directors ignore that because they went to such a shady school? would they still have a good chance in matching once they score highly?

Shady schools.... Lawd, you dont need to look at the Caribbean to see those: Mehary, Howard, Rosalind Franklin...and lets not even mention Ponce, San Juan Bautista, et al in Puerto Rico, all “LCME” approved.

If you have a decent Step 1 Score, particularly above the national mean, you get an interview. From there the onus is on you in your interviewing skills. If you are a chiropractor, PA, NP, pharmacist, nurse, etc, like most students at USAT, presumably you should have the skills to sell yourself. Figure 2 of the 2018 NRMP Report is pretty clear

Interactions with faculty during interview and visit
Interpersonal skills
Interactions with housestaff during interview and visit
Feedback from current residents
USMLE/COMLEX Step 1 score
Letters of recommendation in the specialty
USMLE/COMLEX Step 2 score
Evidence of professionalism and ethics
Medical Student Performance Evaluation (MSPE/Dean's Letter)
Perceived commitment to specialty
Perceived interest in program
Leadership qualities
Class ranking/quartile
Personal prior knowledge of the applicant
Audition elective/rotation within your department
Personal Statement Grades in required clerkships
Passing USMLE Step 2 CS/COMLEX Level
etc...

 

[ThomasP]

Diagree. For experienced medical clinicans like us, who already have the competencies, some basic medical sciences knowledge and maturity, we found USAT attractive for a reason: the school is not a scam. There is no reason to cast aspersions at the admins of USAT. If you ever interacted with them, you would know they wanted us to graduate and succeed as other USAT graduates have

So let Dr Tulp work it out. He doesnt want to see his program go down and nor should we.
Wait and see what happens. It is not like all is final yet. ECFMG is still processing our affidavits, at least they told me as such on the phone last week

The school is a scam. ECFMG has literally said that they were teaching classes illegally in the US. Scam = dishonest or deceptive act. USAT= teaching classes illegally and no telling students = DISHONEST ACT

They say they want you to graduate and succeed. They can say anything to anyone for money. The fact is less than 1% of their students match and now they can't even take the steps. Talk is cheap.

So let Dr Tulp work it out.

Dr. Tulp is the one lied to everyone and always knew that the school did not have permission to conduct classes in the US but did not tell anyone.
Instead Dr. Tulp talked about a disgruntled former employee reporting them for a minor thing and the concern was solicitation of money from him.

Like the e-mail from ECFMG stated, ECFMG contacted them requesting proof of permission from the US that they were able to conduct classes in the US and they never replied.

Dr. Tulp lied and did not tell anyone about this. If you are dense enough to allow him time to "work it out" and work out more reasons to fool you then go right ahead. In fact, I think you are most likely a USAT rep.

It is not like all is final yet. ECFMG is still processing our affidavits, at least they told me as such on the phone last week

This the same exact thing that happened to AUSOM. Please let me know which other school got this and it worked out in the end. We all know what USAT's next plan is so don't try to hide it.

 

[macroorchids]

Just curious how are you experienced medical clinician?

Most USAT students are medical clinicians from prior or current medical careers and this is really common knowledge. Read my comments. Ditto for the rest of your post

If I were a USAT Rep (do they even have one?), why would I have contacted AUC?

Im a USAT student and Im in the same situation as others. I prefer to wait and see as opposed to go full throttle like you

Good luck

 

[ThomasP]

Most USAT students are medical clinicians from prior or current medical careers and this is really common knowledge. Read my comments. Ditto for the rest of your post

You are probably one of the people who Dr. Tulp gave medical school credits for doing chiropracty, nursing school, vet school etc and instantly gave them their degree.

 

[macroorchids]

[

You are probably one of the people who Dr. Tulp gave medical school credits for doing chiropracty, nursing school, vet school etc and instantly gave them their degree. Hope you put that in your affidavit.

flagged and blocked

No wonder you were kicked off the FB group. Sheesh

 

[ThomasP]

[


flagged and blocked

No wonder you were kicked off the FB group. Sheesh

Seems like you were one of those people.

Truth hurts right? lol...by the way guys, it is true. USAT did that to a select few people and was caught.

Also who said I was kicked off the fb group? I saw people post similar things and were kicked off.

 

[gyngyn]

It can be difficult to remain civil when in distress.
Nevertheless, it is the time when civility is most needed.

 

[Skip Intro]

They were not granted initial provisional accreditation by CAAM-HP in 2007, and they subsequently were formally listed as "not accredited" in 2012.

Nonsense.

When you start by refuting an established fact as “nonsense”, it’s hard to get the train back on the tracks. I provided a link. It is and has been a verifiable credentialing issue with the regulatory body in the region for at least the past 11 years. Your individually attempting to dismiss that by calling it “nonsense” does not remove that reality.

The ECFMG is only part of the equation but, by 2023, will have de facto regulatory oversite for the entire process. You may not like that. You may not agree with it. You make think it’s “nonsense”. But, it is reality.

The ECFMG granted permits for the Step exams to USAT students for years and many USAT graduates matched at several residency programs throught SE USA: Tampa, Orlando, San Antonio, New Orleans, Atlanta, Gainesville, Miami, etc. We all know medical schools in the USA are factories. Even Faculty and admins at LCME schools confess this. There is no mentoring or shadowing per se, professional schools are all about numbers, a get em in, get em out assembly line scheme, and have little credibility as to possessing interest in developing medical students into compassionate, caring, socially aware future physicians. Be it Ross, St George, Dominican Republic, Guadalajara, University of Miami or University of X, Y and Z, it is all about money. To think that medical education has any mission or goal in forming future Marcus Welby’s or grads in the mold of Hippocrates shows how gullible you are. You graduated from Ross, while others graduated from Creighton, Washington. Northwestern, or LSU....all graduates are called “Doctor”. Whether they are excellent physicians or mediocre physicans like most today in America has more to do with their personal drive and nothing to do with the medical school where they dropped $250k

Bottom line: The ECFMG has finally figured out what your school has been up to. And, it violates the rules.

Aside from that, this rant only belies hubris and immaturity along with a complete disregard for the acknowledgment about how things actually work as opposed to how you would like them to work. Just because you have very strong opinions about what you perceive to be right and wrong - your version of reality - doesn’t mean those opinions are shared by those who hold regulatory dominion over you.

There are rules. Your school broke the rules. In their minds, the ECFMG seems to view your school as a diploma mill. Nothing you have posted since the above rant has dissuaded me from believing that. In fact, in many ways it has reinforced it.

-Skip

 

[monserratdr]

The ECFMG doesn't withdraw accreditation easily, so they must have done something bad. I don't see any online stories about this, so I don't know the details.

This is what the ECFMG sent USAT students after applying for a permit to take the USMLE Step 1 Exam. Does this help?

......

From: Listowners LISTSERVECFMGORG
Date: October 18, 2018 at 10:04:29 AM EDT
To: ECFMG-INFOLISTSERVECFMGORG
Subject: UPDATE: IMPORTANT INFORMATION FROM ECFMG / ACTION REQUIRED
Reply-To:

Dear Doctor:

Our records indicate that you have listed University of Science, Arts & Technology (USAT) Faculty of Medicine in Montserrat as the medical school from which you will graduate or have already graduated.

Recently, it came to ECFMG's attention that USAT operates a satellite (or branch) campus in Miami, FL. Among other requirements, in order for students and graduates of an international medical school, such as USAT, to have eligibility to apply for ECFMG Certification, ECFMG policy requires confirmation from the appropriate government authority in the branch campus country that the branch campus is authorized to operate as a medical school in such branch campus country.

In light of this policy, ECFMG previously requested that USAT provide documentation from the United States Department of Education and/or the Florida Department of Education confirming that USAT's Miami branch campus is authorized to operate as a medical school in the United States. To date, USAT has not provided ECFMG with such documentation. ECFMG now understands that USAT has branch campuses in Texas and Puerto Rico, in addition to Florida.

Therefore, effective today, ECFMG's Sponsor Note in the World Directory of Medical Schools (World Directory) for USAT has been updated to reflect that 2019 and later graduates of USAT are no longer eligible to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification or to register for USMLE examinations as a step toward ECFMG Certification.

WHAT THIS MEANS FOR YOU

Students Who Expect to Graduate on or after January 1, 2019:

Effective January 1, 2019, students and graduates of USAT will no longer be eligible for ECFMG Certification or to register for USMLE examinations as a step toward ECFMG Certification.

In order to become eligible for ECFMG Certification, or to register for the USMLE examinations as a step toward ECFMG Certification, on or after January 1, 2019, the United States Department of Education and/or the Departments of Education for Florida, Texas, and Puerto Rico must provide ECFMG with documentation that USAT is authorized to operate as a medical school in the United States. Otherwise, you must transfer to and/or be officially enrolled in a medical school that is listed in the World Directory as meeting the eligibility requirements for its students and graduates to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification and to register for USMLE examinations. Additionally, "Graduation Years" in the ECFMG note on the Sponsor Notes tab of the World Directory listing for that medical school must be listed as "Current."

If you are registered for a USMLE examination with an eligibility period that extends into 2019 and you take the examination in 2019, you must be enrolled in a medical school that meets ECFMG's medical school requirements. If you are not officially enrolled in a medical school whose students and graduates are eligible to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification and to register for USMLE examinations as a step toward ECFMG Certification as described above, and you take the USMLE examination, this may be considered Irregular Behavior.

If you have questions about whether the school to which you are transferring meets ECFMG's medical school requirements, please contact us at (215) 386-5900.

2018 and Earlier Graduates:

If you are a 2018 graduate, or graduated prior to 2018, you will continue to remain eligible to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification.

Your medical school has also been advised of this information.

Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact an Applicant Information Services advisor at (215) 386-5900

Sincerely,

ECFMG
3624 Market Street
Philadelphia, PA 19104

 

[monserratdr]

When you start by refuting an established fact as “nonsense”, it’s hard to get the train back on the tracks. I provided a link. It is and has been a verifiable credentialing issue with the regulatory body in the region for at least the past 11 years. Your individually attempting to dismiss that by calling it “nonsense” does not remove that reality.

The ECFMG is only part of the equation but, by 2023, will have de facto regulatory oversite for the entire process. You may not like that. You may not agree with it. You make think it’s “nonsense”. But, it is reality.



Bottom line: The ECFMG has finally figured out what your school has been up to. And, it violates the rules.

Aside from that, this rant only belies hubris and immaturity along with a complete disregard for the acknowledgment about how things actually work as opposed to how you would like them to work. Just because you have very strong opinions about what you perceive to be right and wrong - your version of reality - doesn’t mean those opinions are shared by those who hold regulatory dominion over you.

There are rules. Your school broke the rules. In their minds, the ECFMG seems to view your school as a diploma mill. Nothing you have posted since the above rant has dissuaded me from believing that. In fact, in many ways it has reinforced it.

-Skip

Your established fact might be established in your mind but it isnt relevant.

USAT has graduated and placed medical doctors in accredited Residency Programs and that is all that matters.

 

[Skip Intro]

Your established fact might be established in your mind but it isnt relevant.

USAT has graduated and placed medical doctors in accredited Residency Programs and that is all that matters.

It is very relevant.

(1) The school was never accredited by CAAM-HP, the supervising regulatory body in the Caribbean/CARICOM community.*

(2) People enrolled in this program despite that, yourselves included.

(3) The school finally got caught operating outside of their charter.

(4) The ECFMG is now withdrawing their approval and may, as often happens, allow previous attendees a pass by "grandfathering" them in, which is what appears will occur in this situation. It doesn't mean that what happened to this point was acceptable or even sanctioned.

I'm sorry you made a poor choice to consider a pathway that was sold to you as a viable option. For a litany of complicated reasons, just because people short-cutted their way to a degree in the past - and got away with it - doesn't mean that you should be entitled to do the same.

Trust me when I tell you that the people who have previously graduated and are now licensed, practicing physicians somewhere in the U.S. may not necessarily get out of this scot-free. I would hate to be in their shoes if they ever find themselves in front of a plaintiff's attorney.

In the future, caveat emptor. This type of thing is likely to continue and get even more stringent moving forward as ECFMG begins to assume full responsibility for U.S. accreditation by 2023. This might be just the first in what may become a series of crackdowns.

-Skip

(*This should have been the very first place you looked before deciding to enroll to determine if this was considered an accredited, bona fide program by the regionally-approving regulatory body. Then, knowing that it wasn't and still deciding to enroll puts all the subsequent risk squarely on your own shoulders. In other words, you took a gamble and you lost.)

 

[ThomasP]

Recently, it came to ECFMG's attention that USAT operates a satellite (or branch) campus in Miami, FL. Among other requirements, in order for students and graduates of an international medical school, such as USAT, to have eligibility to apply for ECFMG Certification, ECFMG policy requires confirmation from the appropriate government authority in the branch campus country that the branch campus is authorized to operate as a medical school in such branch campus country.

In light of this policy, ECFMG previously requested that USAT provide documentation from the United States Department of Education and/or the Florida Department of Education confirming that USAT's Miami branch campus is authorized to operate as a medical school in the United States. To date, USAT has not provided ECFMG with such documentation. ECFMG now understands that USAT has branch campuses in Texas and Puerto Rico, in addition to Florida.

What a great money making scheme.

 

[ThomasP]

Your established fact might be established in your mind but it isnt relevant.

USAT has graduated and placed medical doctors in accredited Residency Programs and that is all that matters.

The handful of graduates in residency (less than 10) are almost all former nurses with connections and/or previous work experience in the residency programs that they matched in. No one actually went to the school (like actually sat down and did basic sciences) and matched.

 

[cedarspamd]

Dr Tulp is a very business savvy professor and physician. Trust him. He brought to the market what was sorely needed: a vehicle for experienced medical clinicians to bridge from their respective clinical careers to MD without having to go through the dog and pony show of the AAMC and medical education industrial capitalist complex.


Several Physician Assistants graduated from USAT and placed into Residency Programs in South Florida. I am one of them. Some PA’s who went through the program include Jose, Joel, Maria, Manrique and Ted. All graduated and are now practicing physicians in the Miami area. Manrique is an Internal Medicine physician at Mt Sinai, Jose also IM at University of Miami Clinics (formerly Cedars), Maria is FP at Baptist, Joel is Psychiatry at UM, Ted is EM at Mt Sinai. There were quite a few NP’s as well. One was a physician in Cuba, attended USAT and graduated with an MD and placed Residency at Jackson in primary care, IM I think.


Going to medical school as an M1 with 15+ years experience as a PA is dumb. There should be many more programs like USAT in the US that allow a bridge for medical clinicians to earn an MD Degree without having to spend $200k in the Caribbean or be forced to sit in basic medical science courses and do medical rotations for four years when we were already PA’s in the clinical setting seeing patients and prescribing. Knowing Dr Tulp he will save the program and continue offering this much needed avenue. For all the talk of physician shortage, the AAMC and ACGME pay lip service and create phenomenal barriers for those who already possess the knowledge and competencies needed in medicine.


Keep at it. Ignore the naysayers. Follow your instincts.

Is anyone else enrolled in USAT and is wondering what they are going to do about the ECFMG stripping the school of eligibility to sit for the USMLE exams?

World Directory listing follows:

The information below has been provided by the World Directory’s sponsoring organizations.
Canada

Unless indicated otherwise, Medical degrees obtained from this medical school are acceptable to the provincial/territorial medical regulatory authorities in Canada, and therefore acceptable to all medical organizations in Canada. For more information about the acceptable medical schools as defined in the Model Standards for Medical Registration in Canada


À moins d’avis contraire, les diplômes de médecine de cette faculté de médecine sont acceptables aux ordres des médecins dans les provinces et territoires du Canada, et par conséquent acceptables à toute autre organisation au Canada qui œuvre dans le domaine médical. Pour plus d'information au sujet des facultés de médecine acceptables, telles que définies dans les normes modèles pour l'inscription médicale au Canada

Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG), United States of America

Students and graduates of this medical school are eligible to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification and for examination, provided that:

For medical school students officially enrolled in this school, the graduation years are listed below as “current”.

For graduates of this medical school, their graduation year is included in the graduation years listed below.

Graduation Years:

2003 - 2018

All other eligibility requirements are met. Refer to the ECFMG Information Booklet for detailed information.

Note: As of January 1, 2019, students and graduates of this medical school with a graduation year of 2019 and later are not eligible to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification, which also renders them ineligible to apply to ECFMG for the United States Medical Licensing Examinations (USMLE) as a step toward ECFMG Certification.

Currently, students and graduates of USAT are subject to enhanced procedures that must be met in order to be eligible to apply for ECFMG Certification related services, including but not limited to: ECFMG Certification, USMLE examinations that lead to ECFMG Certification, and Electronic Residency Application Service Support Services. ECFMG will provide information and instructions to applicants upon receipt of application

 

[ThomasP]

Dr Tulp is a very business savvy professor and physician. Trust him.

Tulp is NOT a REAL physician/medical doctor. He was awarded an MD from a "shady" DISTANCE LEARNING school in St Petersburg IUFS.

Sources :

Since I can't post links,

Please search "iufs honors holders list 2007 tulp" in google.

Please search "usatmedicine orien tulp curriculum Diploma, Basic Officer Course" in google and click on the first link. It should be the PDF of his CV.

He brought to the market what was sorely needed: a vehicle for experienced medical clinicians to bridge from their respective clinical careers to MD without having to go through the dog and pony show of the AAMC and medical education industrial capitalist complex.

He has illegally given medical school credits to those that are NPs, chiropractors etc. ECFMG discovered this and together with him illegally conducting classes in the US, decided to shut him down.

Several Physician Assistants graduated from USAT and placed into Residency Programs in South Florida. I am one of them. Some PA’s who went through the program include Jose, Joel, Maria, Manrique and Ted. All graduated and are now practicing physicians in the Miami area. Manrique is an Internal Medicine physician at Mt Sinai, Jose also IM at University of Miami Clinics (formerly Cedars), Maria is FP at Baptist, Joel is Psychiatry at UM, Ted is EM at Mt Sinai. There were quite a few NP’s as well. One was a physician in Cuba, attended USAT and graduated with an MD and placed Residency at Jackson in primary care, IM I think.

Not sure what the point of this is because USAT lost ECFMG recognition. There is no way for new students to take the exam again. A new school in another island is taking the same step that AUSOM took.

There should be many more programs like USAT in the US that allow a bridge for medical clinicians to earn an MD Degree without having to spend $200k in the Caribbean or be forced to sit in basic medical science courses and do medical rotations for four years when we were already PA’s in the clinical setting seeing patients and prescribing. Knowing Dr Tulp he will save the program and continue offering this much needed avenue. For all the talk of physician shortage, the AAMC and ACGME pay lip service and create phenomenal barriers for those who already possess the knowledge and competencies needed in medicine.

Please do not listen to these scammers.

USAT took a lot of money from people. Less than 0.5% of their students actually matched anywhere. The students that are currently in the program can't even get their transcripts (Look at the USAT fb groups) and most medical schools won't accept their credits because it's distance learning. The school has stopped responding to anyone.

 

[Skip Intro]

Dr Tulp is a very business savvy professor and physician. Trust him.

No.

He brought to the market what was sorely needed: a vehicle for experienced medical clinicians to bridge from their respective clinical careers to MD without having to go through the dog and pony show of the AAMC and medical education industrial capitalist complex.

... and in the process broke established regulations and standards intended to provide a framework for what is considered an acceptable medical education paradigm in the U.S. all while effectively sticking his thumb in everyone else's eye.

Several Physician Assistants graduated from USAT and placed into Residency Programs in South Florida. I am one of them. Some PA’s who went through the program <snip>...

See my comments above RE: plaintiffs attorneys.

Going to medical school as an M1 with 15+ years experience as a PA is dumb.

I had both direct clinical patient care and research experience before I went to Ross. Was it dumb that I played by the rules and started as an MS1? The hubris of this post is amazing. Who knows what part of the standard curriculum you skipped or glossed over thinking you didn't need to learn it. The old saying "you don't know what you don't know" comes to mind.

There should be many more programs like USAT in the US that allow a bridge for medical clinicians to earn an MD Degree without having to spend $200k in the Caribbean or be forced to sit in basic medical science courses and do medical rotations for four years when we were already PA’s in the clinical setting seeing patients and prescribing.

Fine. Change the rules. Breaking the rules only pisses people off.

Knowing Dr Tulp he will save the program and continue offering this much needed avenue. For all the talk of physician shortage, the AAMC and ACGME pay lip service and create phenomenal barriers for those who already possess the knowledge and competencies needed in medicine.

Shortcuts, obfuscation, possibly sub-standard education, giving credit for "life experience"... yeah, not gonna win anyone over in this highly-regulated game.

I think he may already be in Argentina.

Keep at it. Ignore the naysayers. Follow your instincts.

In relation to the problem at hand, this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this forum.

-Skip

 

[EmeraldDragon]

USAT Students - transfer into another program ASAP (though you are going to have problems finding a program that will take you. Do your research on schools this time!!!). If you are at the stage where you were about to take the Step 1, you will likely need to do that school's review course and NBME CBSE, no exceptions.

If you have not gotten to that point, cut your losses and go somewhere else and start from MD1 or find a different career.

Sorry to be blunt but they are not going to fix this, and if they find a way to snake you into clinicals you WILL NOT MATCH.

You are absolutely not allowed to take distance learning/online courses in any Caribbean program. It is not allowed. (I believe Ross and their Tennessee campus after the hurricane is the only exception to this) Any school offering this is just looking for your money at the expense of your future. Run in the opposite direction.

 

[UnderlineWell]

I'm currently a student at USAT. I got an e-mail recently saying that there is going to be a new school and they're asking students to transfer there as according to them, other schools might not accept their coursework as credit.

Does it make sense transferring to their new school? Is it likely that this new school will get WHO and ECFMG listing? Dr. Tulp has told us this they definitely will soon. What do you think is the best option? Because schools I've contacted aren't recognizing USAT coursework.

 

[monserratdr]

I'm currently a student at USAT. I got an e-mail recently saying that there is going to be a new school and they're asking students to transfer there as according to them, other schools might not accept their coursework as credit.

Does it make sense transferring to their new school? Is it likely that this new school will get WHO and ECFMG listing? Dr. Tulp has told us this they definitely will soon. What do you think is the best option? Because schools I've contacted aren't recognizing USAT coursework.

I received a phone call from ECFMG. All USAT students who contacted ECFMG last month for a Step 1 Permit and were informed about the USAT ECFMG Affidavit procedure were assigned a case worker from ECFMG. I was told by my case worker that my affidavit is being reviewed. In addition to my affidavit, as a followup to it, I also sent them a detailed legal document that states my case aside from USAT. My case worker confirmed that they received my legal document, and they told me they are reviewing it carefully to possibly grant me an exception. They might grant me a Step 1 Permit pending their review. If so, I will take the Step 1 and transfer to a LCME school. Several LCME medical schools in the USA will take Caribbean medical school US citizens as advanced standing transfer students if their Step 1 Score is above the national mean. So the goal now has become: persuade the ECFMG to issue you a permit for Step 1 Exam so that you can transfer to an LCME school

suggestion: contact ECFMG, inquire who your case worker is, talk to that person, then follow up with a legal document stating in writing why they should grant you an exception to the USAT ECFMG Affidavit fiasco. Make it persuasive, free of emotion, stick to the facts, talk with your attorney before sending it, and submit. Then confirm with ECFMG that they recived your legal document. Then wait and see

As an aside...

It appears USAT is done with addressing the ECFMG debacle. Their most recent email to students today states they are working on other avenues.

“The development of the school is going well however more information is not currently available, we anticipate more information to be available in 3 to 4 weeks. Please know at this time there are no further updates in regards to the ECFMG ruling. We are still diligently working with counsel on your behalf.“

complete email follows

From: USAT Lectures <[email protected]>
Date: October 30, 2018 at 6:13:54 PM EDT
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: USAT ECFMG weekly update
Reply-To: [email protected]

Dear Students,

USAT has two additional locations that you can now contact and setup clinical rotations. These rotations are for those able to graduate by December 31, 2018.

Puerto Rico - ONLY AVAILABLE FOR 8 STUDENTS
Medical Facility in Guayama, PR
$1500 per month and you will have 40+ hours per week
If you are interested please contact [email protected] and state it is in regards to this rotation

Canada
Contact [email protected] or 877.517.8800
$350 per week and they have locations in Canada, New York, Chicago, Atlanta, and Michigan

We are currently working on a few other sites and will send that information to you when it is finalized.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



For those students requesting transcripts, you will need to have paid your tuition balance in full up to the day of your withdrawal in order to receive your official transcript and allow a 2 week time frame upon payment and request to receive them. Please note that if you withdrawal before the end of the Fall 2018 semester the courses you are currently enrolled in will not be placed on your transcript.

The development of the school is going well however more information is not currently available, we anticipate more information to be available in 3 to 4 weeks. Please know at this time there are no further updates in regards to the ECFMG ruling. We are still diligently working with counsel on your behalf.

Thank you,
USAT Administration
University of Science Arts & Technology
[email protected]
303.371.0252

 

[UnderlineWell]

I received a phone call from ECFMG. All USAT students who contacted ECFMG last month for a Step 1 Permit and were informed about the USAT ECFMG Affidavit procedure were assigned a case worker from ECFMG. I was told by my case worker that my affidavit is being reviewed. In addition to my affidavit, as a followup to it, I also sent them a detailed legal document that states my case aside from USAT.

What do you mean your case?

Several LCME medical schools in the USA will take Caribbean medical school US citizens as advanced standing transfer students if their Step 1 Score is above the national mean.

Wait, what? LCME schools will accept USAT students if they score highly in Step 1? Who told you this? Also what schools are willing to do this?
This just sounds so insane that I laughed. The grand total of international students taken in by the US in the past decade was like 3.

They might grant me a Step 1 Permit pending their review.

So you didn't go the island to attend classes?

As an aside...

It appears USAT is done with addressing the ECFMG debacle.

How are they done with addressing the ECFMG debacle? They literally lost ECFMG recognition. There's a big fat red line on the world directory stating that no graduates after 2018 can take any step exams....unless you meant they just gave up?

“The development of the school is going well however more information is not currently available, we anticipate more information to be available in 3 to 4 weeks. Please know at this time there are no further updates in regards to the ECFMG ruling. We are still diligently working with counsel on your behalf.“

Like I originally asked, what is the likelihood this new school gets ECFMG recognition? Because it would be pointless to transfer to this new school and not get to take the step exams.

From: USAT Lectures <[email protected]>
Date: October 30, 2018 at 6:13:54 PM EDT
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: USAT ECFMG weekly update
Reply-To: [email protected]

Dear Students,

USAT has two additional locations that you can now contact and setup clinical rotations. These rotations are for those able to graduate by December 31, 2018.

Puerto Rico - ONLY AVAILABLE FOR 8 STUDENTS
Medical Facility in Guayama, PR
$1500 per month and you will have 40+ hours per week
If you are interested please contact [email protected] and state it is in regards to this rotation

Canada
Contact [email protected] or 877.517.8800
$350 per week and they have locations in Canada, New York, Chicago, Atlanta, and Michigan

We are currently working on a few other sites and will send that information to you when it is finalized.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



For those students requesting transcripts, you will need to have paid your tuition balance in full up to the day of your withdrawal in order to receive your official transcript and allow a 2 week time frame upon payment and request to receive them. Please note that if you withdrawal before the end of the Fall 2018 semester the courses you are currently enrolled in will not be placed on your transcript.

The development of the school is going well however more information is not currently available, we anticipate more information to be available in 3 to 4 weeks. Please know at this time there are no further updates in regards to the ECFMG ruling. We are still diligently working with counsel on your behalf.

Thank you,
USAT Administration
University of Science Arts & Technology
[email protected]
303.371.0252

Basically this is what's going on

1. I'm a student and I need to know if the new school is likely to get ECFMG recognition. If not then it doesn't make sense to transfer.

2. Why isn't anyone at USAT answering their phones or e-mails? I've literally e-mailed everyone at least 5 times requesting my official transcripts (I've already paid off everything) to transfer plus called every single day all numbers and no one has ever answered.

 

[deleted480308]

I find this whole thing fascinating, are they closed up now or are students still paying them?

 

[EmeraldDragon]

The owner, who has a backstory that sounds crazy, is trying to open a new school in the Virgin Islands. Really good article here: As Montserrat medical school sanctioned, founder launching another in the VI also google this dude for some hilarious quotes on some of USAT's dangerous "graduates", like a man selling blood out of a DC apartment. He also appears very litigious.

Meanwhile all the USAT students are completely screwed.

Word of warning, if it sounds too good to be true, it is, and if any Caribbean school lets you do any schoolwork remotely, you are being scammed or they expect you to not make it and are just using you for income. None of the Caribbean accreditors have official policy on going to medical school online and it is severely frowned upon.

 

[BaskingTurtle]

USAT Students - transfer into another program ASAP (though you are going to have problems finding a program that will take you. Do your research on schools this time!!!). If you are at the stage where you were about to take the Step 1, you will likely need to do that school's review course and NBME CBSE, no exceptions.

And then the next problem is to find a school with an actual review course.

In 2017 there were a few places doing similar things as USAT and "crossing the line" as to where the courses were actually being taught. I don't know what USAT was doing, did they have several semesters in the US or the entire last semester or just the review course, as I heard some universities were doing the last semester in the US. At Saba in 2017 the review course in the last semester consisted of all students sitting down in front of endlessly running Kaplan videos. Students paid for this privilege like it was regular teaching, but of course these videos weren't made by Saba, and so it wasn't considered teaching by Saba. They realized when things hit the fan that they needed to make that an on site review course taught by local faculty and so they stopped it not long ago (I believe it was the beginning of 2018). Instead they had faculty stand up and repeat what they had already said in previous semesters and call it "review". But the students were not interested in a repetition of the faculties powerpoints so it eventually became an empty course that the students paid for but in which nothing happens in it at all - no teaching, nothing. And it takes up half of the last (5th) semester of the school.

Students can still fail that course though, because if they fail one of the two shelves that make up the exams or this "course" they need to return and sit on island through this empty course again, and pay for it again. Essentially it means coming back and studying on the island, but there is no course to attend.

I'm pointing this out because many universities in the Caribbean are involved in practices that will eventually catch up with them, though they are trying to duck and hide as best they can. In SUSOM's case they replaced an outsourced course with no course and charged the same price for it.

I understand that at the very least you need to make sure that the school you pick is CAAM-HP accredited, but SUSOM has CAAM-HP and this is just one of the things they are doing that authorities would not want to see.

There are more universities in the Caribbean sitting on the edge of dodgy practices than just the non CAAM-HP accredited ones. And which edge they are sitting on depends on which week you look at them.

You are absolutely not allowed to take distance learning/online courses in any Caribbean program. It is not allowed. (I believe Ross and their Tennessee campus after the hurricane is the only exception to this) Any school offering this is just looking for your money at the expense of your future. Run in the opposite direction.

What Saba was doing would have essentially been considered that, as their "teaching faculty" were literally the Kaplan videos themselves and they weren't on site. And that situation is still not solved. Although they at least have the students round up and silent now.

As with other Caribbean schools, however, the students are seriously threatened from complaining by using all sorts of wonderful techniques. If you have already paid your money, you want to graduate so you keep your mouth shut or lose everything.

But be careful when choosing Caribbean schools. Many of them have the possibility of falling next week. Some are closer than others.