Ummm...am I getting ripped off?

[MountainEM]

So my dog fell out of my truck yesterday and landed on his leg wrong. He was limping, no weight on back right leg, and whinning. I brought him to the vet to get checked out....His front shoulder was a little painful as well.
they wanted to do an x-ray which I thought was a good idea until I got the bill....

xrays
$60 back leg
$60 front shoulder
$60 front shoulder
$60 other front shoulder to compare
$35 shelter fee-to keep him there
$60 vet visit
$100 to put him asleep

for a total of $435 (I got these numbers from my g-friend who has the receipt so not for sure but if anything, I am underestimating)

Is this what I should be charged? It seems like everytime I go to the vet I am hit with excessive bills. I do live in Boulder, CO so I know the cost of living is higher but is this what you vets would charge?

It is just super annoying to help so many people all the time (medical assistant at a clinic for the medically underserved, work with drug addicts at no cost to them, and volunteer on a fire dept.) and never get any love back. If anything goes wrong with me or my animals, I am shelling out 1.5 weeks wages or more. AHHHHHH!!!!!

dave

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[chris03333]

It is highly unlikely that you were overcharged. I am in Cali so cannot compare prices but your price is low for my area. Vets do not charge high prices (or excessive if you like). You must remember there are no insurance companies to pay for the bill. You could get charged well over $500 just to walk into an emergency hospital and not even know it because of insurance or some other "low income" substidy. You have to remember the cost of running the hospital, the equipment and the HUGE amount of debt for education and sometimes owning the hospital are what drives prices.

So my dog fell out of my truck yesterday and landed on his leg wrong. He was limping, no weight on back right leg, and whinning. I brought him to the vet to get checked out....His front shoulder was a little painful as well.
they wanted to do an x-ray which I thought was a good idea until I got the bill....

xrays
$60 back leg
$60 front shoulder
$60 front shoulder
$60 other front shoulder to compare
$35 shelter fee-to keep him there
$60 vet visit
$100 to put him asleep

for a total of $435 (I got these numbers from my g-friend who has the receipt so not for sure but if anything, I am underestimating)

Is this what I should be charged? It seems like everytime I go to the vet I am hit with excessive bills. I do live in Boulder, CO so I know the cost of living is higher but is this what you vets would charge?

It is just super annoying to help so many people all the time (medical assistant at a clinic for the medically underserved, work with drug addicts at no cost to them, and volunteer on a fire dept.) and never get any love back. If anything goes wrong with me or my animals, I am shelling out 1.5 weeks wages or more. AHHHHHH!!!!!

dave

 

[MountainEM]

Ok, I respect vets. I grew up on a farm, dealt with sick animals my whole life but never had to pay the bills for them...

I do understand the costs you all have to charge, but come on...$35 to have my dog sit in a cage until they have the time to x-ray him? We do x-rays at my clinic and we only charge $70 for a set of x-rays and we try and save people money-and they are normally covered by medicaid, CICP, insurance, or just plain dont pay....

just hoping that helping people out will come back and cut me a break at some point....$500 for a bruised knee is sort of a bunch of bull. There is no sliding scale places like their is in human medicine and if you explain to the vet that you have more financial problems than them, they dont even discuss cutting you a break on the bill. ever.

do you guys recommend that I get pet insurance-I have two chesapeake bay retreivers and something happens to one of them at least once a year...my other chessie got an absess the size of her head on her neck after some thorn migrated into her skin and it got infected($2000). If I should get it, what am I looking for and what companies do you recommend?

thanks
dave

keep up the good work. I do like vets

 

[mammalmama]

At the clinic that I worked for in California we charged a $41 office visit, around $100 for anesthetic, and $135 for x-rays 1-2 films. I don't remember the price for 3-4 films. You shouldn't have been charged the $35 just for the few minutes that he was there. I could see it if you had left him there all day and they charged you a day time hospitalization fee. I dealt with a lot of clients that had pet insurance. The thing with VPI pet insurance is that you pay for everything out of pocket, then send in a claim form and they reimburce you. They don't pay you back for everything. They only pay you back what they feel the costs should be and not what they actually are. You still get a big chunck of what you paid out back. You don't really need it for routine care like vaccinations and annual check ups. It might not be a bad idea to have it for emergencies or catastrophic events. Hope this helps
Sara

 

[HorseyVet]

I do understand the costs you all have to charge, but come on...$35 to have my dog sit in a cage until they have the time to x-ray him? We do x-rays at my clinic and we only charge $70 for a set of x-rays and we try and save people money-and they are normally covered by medicaid, CICP, insurance, or just plain dont pay....

just hoping that helping people out will come back and cut me a break at some point....$500 for a bruised knee is sort of a bunch of bull. There is no sliding scale places like their is in human medicine and if you explain to the vet that you have more financial problems than them, they dont even discuss cutting you a break on the bill. ever.

I think you've hit on somethings that are always a problem, intentionally or unintentionally, in vet med, however I think also aren't viewing the situation quite honestly either.

About 1/2 or more of the clients I've ever met had some kind of hard-luck, low-funds story. If vets cut the bill for everyone that "needed" it we really wouldn't be able to stay in business. There are whole conventions/trade magazines/classes (in and out of vet school)/clubs etc. that are about how to be a good vet and not go broke b/c you wear your heart on your sleeve.

As mentioned, there is no one to help supplement costs. Many vets try to make their prices as a low as possible so that they can treat as many as possible. Some vets choose to have a more exclusive client-base and just charge what they want and either euthanize or not treat the rest. There are someone strict equations about "how much this x-ray machine costs" and how much needs to be charged per film to pay for it. It's by far not a one-time buy sort of thing. Usually there are several thousands of dollars in keeping a radiation source "legal/safe," and that doesn't begin to cover cost of films, chemicals, and repair.

Vets are also stuck in a situation where we have (and want) to try to offer the highest quality of medicine. Many practices really want to switch to digital x-ray, laser surgery, AAHA hospitals, etc. but just can't justify the cost....especially if the current system is more paid for/currently economically sound. If you walked in and the vet had a sign that said "we are happy to offer you the best in imaging equipment" you'd think "great"....but when the bill can and x-rays/procedures were twice whatever they used to be, you'd be pist.

Just FYI, there are a lot of cases everyday that most vets just loose money on. People get "cut breaks" everyday. If they saw you had a purebred dog and weren't complaining about money from the momment you walked in, they probably judged that you had the money to pay for the ideal treatment plan. I always think the vet should "run down" a minimal and a ideal treatment plan before doing anything just in case, but maybe they thought that wasn't needed.

In your case, yeah, if they (or you) were going to euthanize the dog anyway (and I'm not sure why that happened here), they could have said "we can take all these x-rays, and they cost this much, and then if this is the problem, you'll need to do this surgery/procedure, which will cost this much." You might have decided that whatever the x-rays said that you weren't going to do the next step and may have decided to euthanize then....or depending on the injury (which again, the x-rays would help you determine) you *might* have been able to see how it heals. I know plenty of crippled (but no longer paninful) farm dogs whoose owners who either never noticed a break or didn't want to treat it. If your dog fell out of a truck you might have been dealing with some other internal trauma that became revealed on the x-rays which made further treatment more difficult/expensive.

From what they did/charged I really don't see any "ripping off" here. Ripping you off would be if they sold you 200 dollars of joint supplments on top of everything because they "might" help or if they found your dogs teeth weren't ship-shape and just went ahead and did a dental just because the potential to do so was there.

99% of vets aren't trying to just jerk money out of clients. Some vets may not be so aware of client money concerns (usually because they are more focused on providing the best care "at all costs") and some vets may not be savvy or experienced enough to know how to make a minimal treatment course (again because they want to do the best job)....

do you guys recommend that I get pet insurance-I have two chesapeake bay retreivers and something happens to one of them at least once a year...my other chessie got an absess the size of her head on her neck after some thorn migrated into her skin and it got infected($2000). If I should get it, what am I looking for and what companies do you recommend?

Like the other poster indicated, pet insurance really isn't that great of a help. If you have a purebreed dog that is "worth something" e.i. shows or otherwise "works" in an offical capacity (herding, hunting), you might be able to insure the value of the animal. People do this with horses, so I'm just guessing there might be something for dogs too. You might be able to do something through homeowners, of course with a dog that goes places that might be hairy.

 

[MountainEM]

thanks for your responses folks. Sort of all stuff I know but just need to be reminded of...I respect and desire good vets. I just don't know if I have been able to find one I am truly in love with yet....and I hate spending money when I don't got it.

About the purebreed dog thing....I think vets do look at a high quality animal and make the assumption that you have money. I warn you guys that that is not the case. I invested in quality dogs because I wanted to know their heritage (and potential medical concerns), have an animal that is well built, and because what is $1200 if you are picking your best friend for the next 12 years? I grew up with Chessies and threw down some cash for some and am willing to deal with medical concerns but that does not mean I can handle whatever bill comes my way. Just wish their was more sliding scale systems in animal care with philanthropy/NGO/free clinic backing. And really this is the job of vets to start just as MDs have started free clinics and low cost options for people. Comments?

further comments welcome, I love hearing the vet side of things
dave

 

[Bill59]

Those fees are in line with our hospital as well.

Although it’s great you help people in your job, you would not have gotten a discount at our house either. For every client that gets a discount, another client pays more to make up the difference. We think it’s more fair to treat everyone the same. If you can talk another client into picking up part of your bill, more power to you (someone actually did this just last week). But I’m not going to ask them to. And I don’t expect my pediatrician to knock off my bill, even though I’ve treated her dog.

After the initial examination, we always give a written estimate before doing anything else. At that time, we can discuss any financial limitations. If your veterinarian didn’t do that, in the future ask for an estimate after the exam if you have concerns about the potential bill. It’s only fair that they should be able to do this. A veterinarian would much prefer to know about this up front, when there’s still time to do something about it. Once a procedure’s done, it has to be paid for – by the client, other clients, the veterinarian, … someone.

If you’re considering pet health insurance, it’s critical to understand what’s covered and what’s not. Routine procedures, like spay, neuter, flea control, etc. may or may not be covered. “Preventable” problems are often not covered, such as the pet being hit by a car. And the biggest issue: “congenital” problems are usually not covered. Examples might be hip dysplasia, disc extrusion in chondrodystrophic breeds, portosystemic shunts.

The reality is pet insurance is property insurance, not health insurance as you think of for human health insurance.

 

[MissBehavior]

thanks for your responses folks. Sort of all stuff I know but just need to be reminded of...I respect and desire good vets. I just don't know if I have been able to find one I am truly in love with yet....and I hate spending money when I don't got it.

About the purebreed dog thing....I think vets do look at a high quality animal and make the assumption that you have money. I warn you guys that that is not the case. I invested in quality dogs because I wanted to know their heritage (and potential medical concerns), have an animal that is well built, and because what is $1200 if you are picking your best friend for the next 12 years? I grew up with Chessies and threw down some cash for some and am willing to deal with medical concerns but that does not mean I can handle whatever bill comes my way. Just wish their was more sliding scale systems in animal care with philanthropy/NGO/free clinic backing. And really this is the job of vets to start just as MDs have started free clinics and low cost options for people. Comments?

further comments welcome, I love hearing the vet side of things
dave

The only formal program I know of for free vet services for low income people is Rural Area Veterinary Services (RAVS). They are a division of the HSUS, and have volunteers who go to low income rural areas & Indian reservations. I believe they mainly go to areas where veterinary services are not available, and even if they were, people would not be able to afford them. It would be great if there were something like this for urban areas, and there are low-cost spay/neuter clinics, vaccine clinics, etc.

But...there is something to the idea that if you cannot afford to take care of an animal, perhaps you should not have the animal in the first place. I hate to say this, because I have a dog and not a lot of money. I've just been lucky in the past three years of having this dog, because the worst thing that's happened was a bad allergic reaction to an insect bite which cost me $90. If I'd gone through some of the things you have with your dogs, I definitely wouldn't have had the extra money. So as a dog owner without a lot of money, it would certainly be understandable to think that vets overcharge. But as a pre-vet student comparing the salaries of vets and MDs with the same amount of schooling, (most) vets are definitely not making as much profit from your dogs as your doctors are from you.

 

[MonkeyJunction]

One question I would ask is, how did your dog "fall" out of your truck? Were you driving down the road with your dog in the back of your truck? Most dogs I have seen have never "fallen" out of a stationary truck. Was there something else wrong with the dog that would cause it to "fall" out of a truck not moving? Dogs are mobile and agile creatures who don't just "fall" out of a truck unless they are helped by an outside agency(vehicle moving, previous injury,etc.) If you were driving when your dog happened to "fall" out of the truck maybe you should also be paying a fine for being "stupid" with the life of an animal who can't hold own. If your dog had been tethered he would not have happened to "fall" out of your truck. Are you planning to ride your kids around on the hood since they have thumbs and can hold on so they just don't "fall" out of the truck too?

You know I am a pretty conservative guy(no tattoos, haha) but nothing pisses me off more than some idiot complaining about having to pay for an injured animal due to his own carelessness and abuse. If God had meant dogs to ride around in the back of a pickup truck untethered he would have gave them thumbs to hold a beer can too!

And the reason I know you were driving is because you never said the dog "jumped" because we all know dogs jump out of stationary trucks but "fall" from moving trucks

I would have called the spca on you and charged you for the phone call too! Do you volunteer so you can get free or discounted rates at the grocery store too? Why don't you try volunteering at an animal shelter. The clients there don't abuse themselves like addicts and the success rate is 100% life changing

 

[toofache32]

Those prices don't sound bad to me at all. It sounds like you're mad that they found nothing wrong. That's the best result you can have. Would you rather your dog have a broken hip? That's just the cost of owning a pet. Do you also get mad when your dog doesn't get heartworms after spending all that money on heartworm pills?

As far as your job, I don't see how that's relevant. All jobs "help people" in some form. The Vet is a business, not a charity.

 

[MountainEM]

Wow folks. Vets here are pretty defensive. I was just stating that it seems expensive and that their seems to be a lack of charity care/low income help for animals. I am making $1400/month so sorry if blowing 1/3 of a month in 2 hrs is a hit. The vets I know do better financially than the doctors working in clinics for underserved populations FYI and it does not seem like there exists quite the drive in the vet community to come up to a solution to helping poorer folks enjoy the benefits of living with a pet: reduced stress, happiness, and unconditional love. Maybe that can be a little project for one of you instead of being so freaking defensive.


ASS MONKEY- I love my animals. If you wanted to know the story just ask. The truck was NOT moving. My girlfriend was opening the tailgate to let the dogs out when I told her that a car was coming. The younger dog decided to jump out and she grabbed his collar to prevent him from jumping out as a gut-response. The pup is light and her arm on his collar contorted him mid-air messing up his landing. Freak deal. I am also truly happy it was not anything worse and that is not the issue I was trying to raise. Just looking for a little good karma at some point for doing good for others. Nothing complicated.

here is the victim and his sister. He is the lighter one

 

[HorseyVet]

$100 to put him asleep

I read this as "to sleep," as in defunct, and was getting a little pist that people were being grumpy under such circumstances.....

I have more to say about some of the other comments, but obviously I shouldn't post right before bed....

 

[Bluejay224]

One question I would ask is, how did your dog "fall" out of your truck? Were you driving down the road with your dog in the back of your truck? Most dogs I have seen have never "fallen" out of a stationary truck. Was there something else wrong with the dog that would cause it to "fall" out of a truck not moving? Dogs are mobile and agile creatures who don't just "fall" out of a truck unless they are helped by an outside agency(vehicle moving, previous injury,etc.) If you were driving when your dog happened to "fall" out of the truck maybe you should also be paying a fine for being "stupid" with the life of an animal who can't hold own. If your dog had been tethered he would not have happened to "fall" out of your truck. Are you planning to ride your kids around on the hood since they have thumbs and can hold on so they just don't "fall" out of the truck too?

You know I am a pretty conservative guy(no tattoos, haha) but nothing pisses me off more than some idiot complaining about having to pay for an injured animal due to his own carelessness and abuse. If God had meant dogs to ride around in the back of a pickup truck untethered he would have gave them thumbs to hold a beer can too!

And the reason I know you were driving is because you never said the dog "jumped" because we all know dogs jump out of stationary trucks but "fall" from moving trucks

I would have called the spca on you and charged you for the phone call too! Do you volunteer so you can get free or discounted rates at the grocery store too? Why don't you try volunteering at an animal shelter. The clients there don't abuse themselves like addicts and the success rate is 100% life changing

You're a condescending f***ing idiot. I bet your customers will love you with you juvenile attitude. Dgriss 1, I am with you. You guys are all so defensive that is makes me somewhat ashamed of the profession I am going into.
For the record, our dogs love riding in the back of the truck!

 

[MountainEM]

OMG- sorry about that. He is doing well. not dead. Little limp. Credit card hurting.


I dont know what I was thinking when I wrote down "asleep"- I meant that they gave him anthesthia. oooopppssss



dave

ps thanks bluejay, feeling a little beat down after Assmonkey. I bet he will be one great vet.

 

[Bill59]

Dgriss, good looking dogs and I’m happy to hear your buddy is doing well.

Regarding charity care, in my town the local veterinarians support a spay-neuter program at the animal shelter – they provide financial support and volunteer their time. Two veterinarians work full time at the animal shelter’s hospital. The local veterinary association also puts on a low cost rabies vaccination program every year. Several vets a year volunteer for the RAVS program Miss Behavior mentioned. There’s a local program that provides pet visitation to hospitals, nursing homes, and other facilities. And many vets in my area provided free medical care and boarding for animals evacuated from Katrina.

The mean salary for veterinarians is lower than human health care providers with similar training (MDs, pharmacists, chiropractors, podiatrists, optometrists) and in general, veterinary care is less expensive than comparable medical care for people. So you have to understand we may get a little touchy when someone comes here and complains our fees are excessive. (Not that there’s any excuse for being rude about it like some were.)

Finally, not to pile on you but I simply can’t avoid commenting on riding in the back of a truck. If you do this, please make sure they are secured so that they can’t fall out while driving (not saying you don’t, it’s more for others that might be reading). This is a very common cause of severe injury and death in dogs, and it’s actually illegal in some areas for that very reason. In every case I’ve seen, the client says something like “He loves it and does it all the time and it’s never been a problem before.”

And if you use a leash or rope, make sure it’s not long enough to allow the dog to hang himself or get drug behind the truck. I’ve seen too many cases of “asphalt skiing” and it’s not pretty.

 

[MountainEM]

They were actually just sitting in the back of the truck while I was at work for awhile. Most of the time they ride up front with me which I know, if there was a wreck could also kill them or any human unrestrained. Sorry I will not get those doggie seatbelts for 70 # chessies X2. When they ride in the back there is a camper shell with all major openings closed most of the way except for ventilation. They are pretty safe back there in the enclosed area.

Lived in wyoming for a while-seen the ranch dogs(mostly australian cattle dogs) that ride on flat beds just walking on the back with no railings at 60 mph-seems like all you would need is a swerve or a bump

DAve

 

[HorseyVet]

The mean salary for veterinarians is lower than human health care providers with similar training (MDs, pharmacists, chiropractors, podiatrists, optometrists) and in general, veterinary care is less expensive than comparable medical care for people. So you have to understand we may get a little touchy when someone comes here and complains our fees are excessive. (Not that there’s any excuse for being rude about it like some were.)

To add a little to this....it's not just similar training, but similar or typically greater debt. Because there are far less vet schools then med schools, a higher percentage of veterinary students are paying out-of-state tuition for their education....which can be almost 3-4 times greater then instate. This coupled with the fact that we typically make substaintially less certainly is a factor in setting clinical prices.

It's not just about keeping the practice afloat or not under-paying yourself for your training, a lot of times it's about feeding your family or keeping a roof over your head. Educational debt has become enough of a problem that there are a significant amount of problems for the new-associate or person attempting to hire a new associate. Many new vets are essentially forced to take whatever position pays the highest until they stabilize or pay off their debt.

Educational debt continues to rise. Technology continues to get better and more expensive, but our prices, in large part are essentially "fixed" so long as the veterinary community continues (as it likely will) to want to be able to provide pet care to people other then the exceptionally wealthy.

 

[birdvet2006]

Where I work, we charge a $58 emergency fee, then $55 for the exam. There's a waste disposal fee of $3-4. This is what you must pay for me to see your pet on emergency. X-rays: two views for $180-190. Additional views about $80 each. Did you know that digital radiography systems cost about $90,000? Then there're the maintenance costs, the technician's wages, electricity bills, and oh yeah - the vet's (my) wages. I bet I'm forgetting a lot of overhead costs too.

$100 for anaesthesia? Or sedation? It would be more than $100 for gas anaesthesia where I work. Plus we put an IV catheter and administer fluids to every anaesthetised patient, and also use a blood pressure monitor at minimum (all more money than just the drugs).

There are cheaper places. But quality of medicine and 24-7 availability would be different.

 

[toofache32]

Are those chesapeake bay retrievers?

 

[MountainEM]

Yes, those are chesapeakes....if you are thinking they don't look like them it is b/c you really cant see the curly hair in the pics and b/c chessies are breed way over breed standard size and weights these days. 100 # chessies is not breed standard- my female weighs 70 and my male is 68 at 8 months-probably will only be 75. The breeder I got them from breeds them fairly small.

Thanks for all the responses. I started the thread to get an idea of what I should be charged and understand the vet side so I am getting that...

The place I went to is my normal vet, non-emergency hours with an appt. so no emergency fee needed. I am not sure what sedation he got b/c my g-friend took him as I had work. I guess I just ended up wondering why they could not deduce that it was not drastically hurt through palpations/other vet techniques and then give it a few days before all the x-rays if it did not get better. I am interested in osteopathic medicine and I think a D.O. on a human may of done some alternative deducing. We dont xray everyone that steps through our clinic doors with a sore joint. Well...maybe the vet just saw enough reason to do the xrays.

thanks
dave

 

[medtechv79]

Ok, I respect vets. I grew up on a farm, dealt with sick animals my whole life but never had to pay the bills for them...

I do understand the costs you all have to charge, but come on...$35 to have my dog sit in a cage until they have the time to x-ray him? We do x-rays at my clinic and we only charge $70 for a set of x-rays and we try and save people money-and they are normally covered by medicaid, CICP, insurance, or just plain dont pay....

just hoping that helping people out will come back and cut me a break at some point....$500 for a bruised knee is sort of a bunch of bull. There is no sliding scale places like their is in human medicine and if you explain to the vet that you have more financial problems than them, they dont even discuss cutting you a break on the bill. ever.

do you guys recommend that I get pet insurance-I have two chesapeake bay retreivers and something happens to one of them at least once a year...my other chessie got an absess the size of her head on her neck after some thorn migrated into her skin and it got infected($2000). If I should get it, what am I looking for and what companies do you recommend?

thanks
dave

keep up the good work. I do like vets

someone I know got vet insurance...it doesn't pay for routine tests just stuff like described above....like accidents etc..... I dunno if I would reccomend it.
yeah some vet bills are high when u look at it in retrspect...I went to get my cats teeth cleaned and one vet charged over 500 dollars!!! geezus...so I had to take him to another hospital which was so much cheaper!! I do agree with the above posters about vets not having insurance companies to pay for the bills....but I also think varying vet hospitals do have varying charges....so if u don't like yer charge at one hospital u can always bring yer do to another....
not that I'm an expert or anything!

 

[medtechv79]

Wow folks. Vets here are pretty defensive. I was just stating that it seems expensive and that their seems to be a lack of charity care/low income help for animals. I am making $1400/month so sorry if blowing 1/3 of a month in 2 hrs is a hit. The vets I know do better financially than the doctors working in clinics for underserved populations FYI and it does not seem like there exists quite the drive in the vet community to come up to a solution to helping poorer folks enjoy the benefits of living with a pet: reduced stress, happiness, and unconditional love. Maybe that can be a little project for one of you instead of being so freaking defensive.


ASS MONKEY- I love my animals. If you wanted to know the story just ask. The truck was NOT moving. My girlfriend was opening the tailgate to let the dogs out when I told her that a car was coming. The younger dog decided to jump out and she grabbed his collar to prevent him from jumping out as a gut-response. The pup is light and her arm on his collar contorted him mid-air messing up his landing. Freak deal. I am also truly happy it was not anything worse and that is not the issue I was trying to raise. Just looking for a little good karma at some point for doing good for others. Nothing complicated.

here is the victim and his sister. He is the lighter one

my sister in law has a cheasapeake bay retriever! he's huge and such aball of energy! what cute dogs!

 

[medtechv79]

One question I would ask is, how did your dog "fall" out of your truck? Were you driving down the road with your dog in the back of your truck? Most dogs I have seen have never "fallen" out of a stationary truck. Was there something else wrong with the dog that would cause it to "fall" out of a truck not moving? Dogs are mobile and agile creatures who don't just "fall" out of a truck unless they are helped by an outside agency(vehicle moving, previous injury,etc.) If you were driving when your dog happened to "fall" out of the truck maybe you should also be paying a fine for being "stupid" with the life of an animal who can't hold own. If your dog had been tethered he would not have happened to "fall" out of your truck. Are you planning to ride your kids around on the hood since they have thumbs and can hold on so they just don't "fall" out of the truck too?

You know I am a pretty conservative guy(no tattoos, haha) but nothing pisses me off more than some idiot complaining about having to pay for an injured animal due to his own carelessness and abuse. If God had meant dogs to ride around in the back of a pickup truck untethered he would have gave them thumbs to hold a beer can too!

And the reason I know you were driving is because you never said the dog "jumped" because we all know dogs jump out of stationary trucks but "fall" from moving trucks

I would have called the spca on you and charged you for the phone call too! Do you volunteer so you can get free or discounted rates at the grocery store too? Why don't you try volunteering at an animal shelter. The clients there don't abuse themselves like addicts and the success rate is 100% life changing

I don't think its right to berate someone when u don't really know what happened in the situation...u don't tell someone how to live their life or raise their children right?? its not yer business...and riding in the back of a truck isn't that bad.
My inlaws were in an accident and the're dog had a broken back b/c of it and had to be put to sleep...the first thing out of the policemans mouth was
"u should have put yer dog in the crate instead of riding on the carseat by himself...then he wouldn't be in such pain."
do u know how rude that is?!!! my inlaws were in a freakin' car accident with bruises and everything! that's the first thing he said to them!! the dog doesn't want to sit in a crate for a freakin' 4 hour car ride....even if it isn't safe.....this comment is very rude...I'm sorry to say.....
comments like that just kinda tick me off.......

 

[kate_g]

I guess I just ended up wondering why they could not deduce that it was not drastically hurt through palpations/other vet techniques and then give it a few days before all the x-rays if it did not get better.

First off, I love chessies. I saw a similar situation shadowing a couple weeks ago. Large active dog had tripped and fallen down a short flight of stairs, owner reported severe limp. Brought the dog in, walked him up and down the hall 10 times, no limp. The vet poked and prodded at the joints, couldn't feel anything obvious. But then he ordered x-rays and started talking about surgery. I had the same reaction - that's pretty extreme, if I'd gone to my doctor with the same presentation I'd be sent home with ibuprofen and told to take it easy for a few days. The first thing the vet said was it's really common for dogs that are actually hurting pretty badly to look fine at the vet. They're so nervous and hyped up on adrenaline that they forget the pain, and there are injuries too small to feel on physical exam that could actually be serious later. It makes it really hard to assess a joint injury without some objective imaging. I don't know if that was your vet's rationale, but if your dog had to be sedated to get the x-rays then he *was* probably pretty excited (unless that's their standard policy). The second thing he said was if the dog had actually torn something and you send it home with painkillers it is likely to actually make the injury worse by overusing it (since it doesn't hurt, since you gave painkillers...), and then you're definitely going for an ortho consult later...

I can't say whether the costs or the treatments were reasonable, but it *is* a shame you got a surprisingly large bill. I know my vet is pretty careful to give ballpark figures before doing anything as expensive as x-rays. He just says "I'd like to get some radiographs, that's going to cost about X dollars." For elaborate diagnostics or treatment plans he always does a formal estimate. Being surprised about cost and not understanding the rationale behind treatment only lead to clients leaving to find cheaper (and possibly worse) care elsewhere...

EDIT: BTW MonkeyJunction isn't a vet, I think his wife is in vet school. I gotta say, I have a similar attitude about people letting their dogs ride in truck beds (uncovered, unrestrained). Sounds like you actually *weren't* being irresponsible, since you have an enclosed bed and weren't actually moving. But you didn't give those details at first, and "the dog fell out of the truck" is kind of equivalent to "I was sitting on the porch minding my own business and these two dudes came up to me..." in the human med world. His reaction was maybe more severe than absolutely warranted, but I believe it was probably out of concern for the dogs' well-being.

 

[kate_g]

Vets here are pretty defensive.

To be fair, you're not exactly the first person to say "this is so expensive! I don't pay this much for my own health care!" They're defensive because that attitude is a direct threat to their ability to make a living.

I was just stating that it seems expensive and that their seems to be a lack of charity care/low income help for animals.

This is not 100% true... Local animal control organizations (run by the police or the city government or whatever depending on location) very often provide free or heavily discounted services to truly needy people. But I think this usually takes the form of somebody reporting a violation (36 cats in the house, apartment smells bad, dogs chained outside, skinny horse out in a field, homeless guy with a sick dog), the officer responding and finding a person who really wants to do the right thing but just didn't know or couldn't afford care, and then helping them out (often also taking all but one of their animals). But I'm talking homeless people, people living out of vans on the side of the road, elderly folks living in run-down shacks... *truly* needy people. I think there's just not enough money in the system for the free/discounted services to trickle up any further than that.

That said, many SPCA or Humane Society shelters run clinics that offer discounted services. But "discounted" generally also means "basic" so you're definitely choosing a lower standard of care for your (expensive and otherwise well-maintained) animals. So yeah, you're not going to get world-class treatment for free. But then again, that generally doesn't happen for people either.

 

[NaughtyGirl999]

I guess I just ended up wondering why they could not deduce that it was not drastically hurt through palpations/other vet techniques and then give it a few days before all the x-rays if it did not get better.

I am a vet. I am a human being. I am not a psychic. I have no super mutant power vet technique or master palpations skills that allow me to detect all things 100 %. I do not have XRAY vision. I do however have a machine and if you allow me to use it I can often make sure there are no problems such as a chip fracture or moderate dislocation. I can get the obvious stuff-I would not jerk you off for that...but I cannot see any further than to go "yup it's broke or yup it don't seem broke but he's hurtin'"

What I try to do in my practice is present an estimate and run down with people their options, the best prognosis, the worst case scenario. Since the climate has changed in this country with people who like to sue with any minimal reason, veterinarians also have to CYA more than just giving some NSAIDs and saying wait and see. It bothers me that human medicine has such a wait and see attitude in some instances...but as for now they have better resources to be sued.

I just wanted to say a few things.

1) Your dogs are handsome!
2) crap happens. you obviously love your pets. I'm sorry it was expensive but glad to hear your dog is okay.
3) money is just money. I have people that sob story for a dime, people that will pay anything to save their baby, I have days I've seen stuff that should make a grown man cry that a person could be so cruel to another living creature.
4) the reason vets, just like any other business, seem so defensive and a bit sad is because all those persons who promised they would pay that bill if you just gave them a chance....a lot of them defaulted. so now people are bitter and not as trusting as they used to be. And all those people who promised to take care of that pet like it was their baby....didn't. It's a hard world when you really care....
5) and lastly....I did not see any pain meds on that bill??? IF you didn't get anything for pain after all those x-rays...then you probably did get ripped off!

PS....ibuprofen can be toxic to dogs! so stay away from the OTC stuff unless you know what you are doing.

Thank you.

 

[MountainEM]

thanks for all the responses....good info


naughtygirl- he did get rimadyl- it helped him. Thanks for the comments-I especially agree that people need to take care of their pet's medical problems if they commit to owning them-just gets hard sometimes. About money....I could give a **** about money-what I do value is the ability to feed myself and I am currently only making 14,500/year

 

[kate_g]

all those persons who promised they would pay that bill if you just gave them a chance....a lot of them defaulted.

One other thing related to this, if you find yourself with bills you really *can't* pay all at once... I know my current vet's office in CA does this, and the vet I went to when I lived in DE did too so maybe it's a pretty standard/normal thing, is offer some kind of payment plan that has zero or extremely low interest. I don't know if they manage this themselves or if they contract with a company to take care of it, and they might only offer it for bills over a certain amount, but anyway you might check if your vet offers something similar, just in case you end up needing it. Better than putting it on the credit card and then having to pay the interest, anyway.

 

[lilhmbrg]

and there's always care credit. as far as i know you get an interest free repayment period. as a vet, it's hard to keep hearing the same story (case in point, visiting a family friend who easily spent 20k landscaping her yard. she congratulates me on just graduating and wants the number where i practice. she wants to see me because she is "tired of my vet wanting to charge me hundreds to do some tests on my healthy cats. i mean, they should give me a break, i have 3 cats!" gee, priorities, lady). anyway, i think next time definitely get an estimate. good vets have the "gold standard" of care in mind because that's genuinely what would be best for the patient. and good care is not cheap. so be frank and tell her what you can afford and ask to do what's necessary if *that's* all you can afford. but sometimes having to do all those x-rays *is* what's necessary. we can work with you on these issues. but i will repeat what someone else already has said... it's your CHOICE to take in and be responsible for animals. along with that choice come certain responsibilties, like medical care. some costs are expected, and some are not. it's all part of being a pet owner. i am a vet because i love animals and enjoy being part of a human-animal bond. but i also have my own responsibilities. namely, i chose to go to veterinary school at a cost of 100k in student loans and 4 sometimes miserable years of my life. i learned the "gold standard" in medical care but paid the price in time and money. i will not give those services away for free (and my student loan bills won't pay themselves).
it sounds like your beautiful and beloved dogs turned out OK, and I'm glad! but some friendly advice, please don't name your next thread "...getting ripped off?" Because we hear this every day from our clients, whether they say it or we see it in their eyes.