UMD v. Hopkins

[stevens28]

Hello,

I'm deciding between attending Maryland on a full-tuition scholarship or Hopkins. I'm a nontraditional student with 90K in undergraduate debt. I like Baltimore (but am compelled by the opportunity to attend school in either NYC (at Cornell) or Chicago (Pritzker). I am not particularly interested in super competitive fields like derm or surgery. I see myself going into ID or oncology. What I want from a medical school are an engaging and interesting student body (that skews slightly older), opportunities to find mentors and train at a top notch hospital, and the resources necessary to receive a top residency and become a leader in medicine and health policy. As you can imagine, graduating with over 300K in debt is a serious concern as it may constrict the fields I can go into. I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. I am grateful to have a few solid choices and know there's no right or wrong answer.

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[Geekchick921]

I would go to UMD on a full scholarship in a heartbeat, especially if I were already carrying nearly 100K in undergrad loans.

Also, moving to School Specific Discussions.

 

[Huskie99]

Hopkins is an opportunity that very few get...200K (figuring about the price of a full ride) is a lot of money but depending on what field you are going to go into you will be making this...any maybe much more in one year. Hopkins is the best, and if you want to be considered one of the best and a leader in the field then you should go to the best school. I realize money is important in a decision but the opportunities that will be given to you by attending Hopkins I believe are priceless....This is just my opinion, and keep in mind that this is coming from someone only deciding between mid-tier schools and would never be considered at Hopkins.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

What I want from a medical school are an engaging and interesting student body (that skews slightly older), opportunities to find mentors and train at a top notch hospital, and the resources necessary to receive a top residency and become a leader in medicine and health policy.

If this is true, go to Hopkins. And pick up an MPH at Bloomberg.

The time to worry about your $100k in ug debt was when you were deciding on where to go ug, not now. See what Hopkins gives you for financial aid. I would recommend going there regardless of what they say.

 

[RingTailedDoc]

I would go with the full ride. Hopkins is an amazing opportunity, but if you're determined, you will be successful wherever you go. Your total debt will probably amount to about 500k by the time you're able to pay it all off, and Hopkins won't guarantee you a top career (though it will make it easier, but is that worth the cost of a half mil in debt?) . By going with UMD, you'll also eliminate the burden of feeling like you have to choose a certain specialty to pay it off.

 

[bucks2010]

Step 1: whip out some financial calculators and determine your total debt load for both options, how much you will owe per month, and how long it will take to pay it off.

Step 2: do some research and try to find some somewhat accurate compensation #'s for some specialties you're interested in. maybe set some min., median, and max figures just for comparison. Break this down into a monthly amount, estimate taxes, mortgage, car payments, etc. See if you would be comfortable with that standard of living during your loan repayment period. Also keep in mind the income for these fields could change dramatically by the time you finish residency - who knows.

Step 3: Profit.

You're right, it is a tough call. Logic says that if you're good enough to get into Hopkins, you're good enough to apply yourself at UMD and still get great residency training. That said, a Hopkins degree may open more doors, especially if you're interested in academic medicine.

 

[ssdk]

I'll second what Pons said. You want to train in an elite hospital, become a leader in health policy and medicine. It sounds like Hopkins is the school for you. Johns Hopkins will provide you with all of these opportunities, and more.

The debt can be intimidating, but with financial aid and time, you should be able to pay the loans off without living like a beggar.

 

[NYBills987]

Hopkins is a great opportunity but so is a full ride.. if you arent interested in a super competitive residency, then it might not matter, but you might always change your mind... With that said, I'm sure that if you got an acceptance to hopkins and a full ride to UMD which is also a good school, you'll be dedicated enoguh to get a good residency anyway..

 

[DoctwoB]

Tough call, but thats a great decision to have to make. I'd say it depends where you see your career path going. If you want to be the chair of surgery at Mass general or any big-shot academician in a very competitive specialty, then go to hopkins. If you want to be a private practice anything, then go to UMD.

 

[Anonymous01]

What this boils down to in my eyes:

Pick one and only one: a lot of debt, or a lot of prestige.

People may argue that Hopkins will open more doors for you, but I remain a firm believer that the student has more to do with his/her residency placement than the school he/she attends. I'd bring up match lists and use them to argue, but there are too many variables in place there for that to be meaningful at all.

This is just a personal opinion, but if you got into both, imagine how awesome you would be at UMD.

 

[Carbon inc]

You got into some real elite schools, not to mention receiving a full ride to a great one. You're clearly a cut above and capable of achieving the kind of career you want. It really doesn't sound like you would need the namebrand of a school like Hopkins to validate yourself.

I would really only consider the other option if my professional goals are in academics or research. Faced with a full ride to a top 40 school (hey it's not like umd is a bottom feeder) vs lots of debt, I would go with the scholarship in a heartbeat. Otherwise, is it really worth it to spend 15-30 years paying off that debt when you essentially have a free medical education staring you in the face?

People on here really underestimate how truly shi*ty paying back a loan is, and in your situation, two loans, especially since they will exceed hundreds of thousands of dollars and accumulate interest as soon as you're done with school. Of course, finacial reasons shouldn't be the primary determining factor for your choice in med school, but it wouldn't be wise to make light of such a large amount of money. Ask yourself if you would to be perfectly happy at either UMD or Hopkins. If you say yes, I think the smart thing would be to take the scholarship.

 

[bucks2010]

Of course, the impact the debt will actually have on you depends a lot on what your income is/what specialty you go into. Go to the surgery subforum and look for the thread "paying back loans as a surgeon". I was surprised.

 

[redlight]

Of course, the impact the debt will actually have on you depends a lot on what your income is/what specialty you go into. Go to the surgery subforum and look for the thread "paying back loans as a surgeon". I was surprised.

such a tease! ill check this after my post.

edit: yeah, ok, sounds reasonable.

I was going to say that I wish schools kept track of student salaries 5-10 years after graduation. 200k in loans is a lot for the median household (now what if you get married to someone who also amassed a lot of debt through schooling?).

But what if you are a doctor making 200-300k a year, or in a household making 400-500k a year? Will you be able to get good loans for a car, house, etc, while you are in your 20s, early 30s? Can you still live a comfortable lifestyle while paying back those loans?

 

[stevens28]

Thank you all for your input. It is very helpful to hear the varying perspectives. If I did attend Hopkins, I would be looking at about $568,000 in debt after six years of post-graduate training. I would also be 38 or 39 years old. The one thing I'm banking on would be Public Service Loan Forgiveness. After ten years in public service (which I intend to do wherever I go), nearly 400K would be forgiven. And I will have paid about $300,000 over that ten year span. That is largely doable. It's interesting how young students are more willing to take on debt, but older doctors often advise students to avoid the debt. Maybe that's because they have homes, cars, etc. and don't know about the PSLF. My one major concern is that this program won't be around in 15-20 years because of Washington's bipartisan consensus on slashing domestic spending. Whether the PSLF can be rewritten, I don't know. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again for your help. Best of luck to all of you currently making decisions.

 

[dbth77]

If this is true, go to Hopkins. And pick up an MPH at Bloomberg.

The time to worry about your $100k in ug debt was when you were deciding on where to go ug, not now. See what Hopkins gives you for financial aid. I would recommend going there regardless of what they say.

this is just stupid, of course you need to factor in the debt you already have when deciding to take out new debt

 

[KelMD]

You got into some real elite schools, not to mention receiving a full ride to a great one. You're clearly a cut above and capable of achieving the kind of career you want. It really doesn't sound like you would need the namebrand of a school like Hopkins to validate yourself.

Agreed.

 

[bucks2010]

Thank you all for your input. It is very helpful to hear the varying perspectives. If I did attend Hopkins, I would be looking at about $568,000 in debt after six years of post-graduate training. I would also be 38 or 39 years old. The one thing I'm banking on would be Public Service Loan Forgiveness. After ten years in public service (which I intend to do wherever I go), nearly 400K would be forgiven. And I will have paid about $300,000 over that ten year span. That is largely doable. It's interesting how young students are more willing to take on debt, but older doctors often advise students to avoid the debt. Maybe that's because they have homes, cars, etc. and don't know about the PSLF. My one major concern is that this program won't be around in 15-20 years because of Washington's bipartisan consensus on slashing domestic spending. Whether the PSLF can be rewritten, I don't know. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again for your help. Best of luck to all of you currently making decisions.

$568,000 = something like this:

and one of these for the garage:

Just food for though. haha.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

this is just stupid, of course you need to factor in the debt you already have when deciding to take out new debt

I'll await a little more thought from you on this before giving two poops what you find stupid. You didn't address any of the things that the OP specifically said were important to them to the direction of their medical training and career that I mentioned in that same post. And the OP hasn't said word one about the comparison between UMD and JHU re: the actual amount of loans each program's financial aid offer includes. Continue speeding away from that little drive by.

 

[artsydoc]

I think that level of debt would be more of a drawback and restriction on opportunites following graduation than a degree from Hopkins would be an advantage. Given your history I also expect you will make your own opportunities and be successful wherever you go. I do sympathize with your decision though, I had a prior career where I came from a high prestige, well connected program and it did open doors for me. In the end I think it's a matter of figuring out just what exactly if anything would Hopkins do for you that the other school would or could not, and then deciding if it's 6 figure worthy.

 

[dbth77]

I'll await a little more thought from you on this before giving two poops what you find stupid. You didn't address any of the things that the OP specifically said were important to them to the direction of their medical training and career that I mentioned in that same post. And the OP hasn't said word one about the comparison between UMD and JHU re: the actual amount of loans each program's financial aid offer includes. Continue speeding away from that little drive by.

this post is nonsensical. you sound like a no-nothing premed who sees loan money like it's monopoly money. The OP specifically said he'd be in close to 600,000 in debt by going to Hopkins vs. full-ride at UMD. As far as his future career, it sounds like he wants to do medicine. He can literally go wherever he wants coming out of UMD as long as he keeps doing what he's done up until this point. OP, paying back loans sucks, UMD will close no doors, take the money and you'll still be able to get any medicine residency you want. oh, and take less advice from pons asinorum

 

[Pons Asinorum]

this post is nonsensical. you sound like a no-nothing premed who sees loan money like it's monopoly money. The OP specifically said he'd be in close to 600,000 in debt by going to Hopkins vs. full-ride at UMD. As far as his future career, it sounds like he wants to do medicine. He can literally go wherever he wants coming out of UMD as long as he keeps doing what he's done up until this point. OP, paying back loans sucks, UMD will close no doors, take the money and you'll still be able to get any medicine residency you want. oh, and take less advice from pons asinorum

Your shift key appears to be malfunctioning (since we're heading off to ad hominemsville anyway). Also, your posts from 2005 were a hoot and the DO forum misses your fascinating POV. I don't view loan money as monopoly money, having owned a house or two and a few cars over the years. I'll stand by my advice, and you can stand by yours. Best of luck OP.

 

[Dr Love]

Baltimore native here. I interviewed at both schools and have spent some time at both, so I have at least a glimpse as to the difference in quality between the two. For what it's worth, I would take the full-ride at UMD over Hopkins. UMD is actually a respected school and will not limit you in any way, but all the debt you incur at Hopkins will. Besides, if you are specifically interested in ID, UMD is the better school for that.

Also, don't count on generous government support. America is $13 trillion in debt and counting.

 

[dbth77]

Your shift key appears to be malfunctioning (since we're heading off to ad hominemsville anyway). Also, your posts from 2005 were a hoot and the DO forum misses your fascinating POV. I don't view loan money as monopoly money, having owned a house or two and a few cars over the years. I'll stand by my advice, and you can stand by yours. Best of luck OP.

great, another substantive post from you. why anyone who has never even set foot in a medical school would advise someone about hundred thousand dollar decisions is beyond me. stand by your advice as i'm sure your rich premed experience has enlightened you. i'll stick with my perspective as someone who is in debt, at one of the hospitals the op will hope to match at, and knows it doesn't take a top med school to get there

 

[membername3]

OP, go with the full ride. UMD won't hold you back in any way, shape, or form.

And counting on PSLF to erase your debt seems like quite the risk. Considering the fiscal state of this country and the fact that it's likely to get worse, I have a hard time believing PSLF will be around in its current form by the time the first loans are to be forgiven. Also, it would be politically unpopular to endorse loan forgiveness for those "rich doctors".

Just look at the fact that subsidized loans for grad students will no longer exist in Obama's 2012 budget, the fact that you can no longer defer loans during residency, the fact that interest rates on student loans have more than doubled in the past 6 or 7 years... yeah, it sucks. And it will continue to suck.

 

[Geekchick921]

Your shift key appears to be malfunctioning (since we're heading off to ad hominemsville anyway). Also, your posts from 2005 were a hoot and the DO forum misses your fascinating POV.I don't view loan money as monopoly money, having owned a house or two and a few cars over the years. I'll stand by my advice, and you can stand by yours. Best of luck OP.

great, another substantive post from you. why anyone who has never even set foot in a medical school would advise someone about hundred thousand dollar decisions is beyond me. stand by your advice as i'm sure your rich premed experience has enlightened you. i'll stick with my perspective as someone who is in debt, at one of the hospitals the op will hope to match at, and knows it doesn't take a top med school to get there

 

[stevens28]

Thanks for your advice. I decided to withdraw from Hopkins. I am debt averse and, while I may feel differently down the road, I'm not comfortable living beneath all that debt for the next 10-20 years of my life.

I have narrowed my choices to Pritzker and UMD. With generous support from Pritzker, the gap in cost between the two schools is not terrible (~60K). Having lived in Baltimore for two years, I am feeling the urge for a change of scenery (a big city, with lots to do).

Thanks again for all of your responses. Seeing what 600K looks like (a house with a luxury car) really made that amount sink in.

 

[cpants]

Thanks for your advice. I decided to withdraw from Hopkins. I am debt averse and, while I may feel differently down the road, I'm not comfortable living beneath all that debt for the next 10-20 years of my life.

I have narrowed my choices to Pritzker and UMD. With generous support from Pritzker, the gap in cost between the two schools is not terrible (~60K). Having lived in Baltimore for two years, I am feeling the urge for a change of scenery (a big city, with lots to do).

Thanks again for all of your responses. Seeing what 600K looks like (a house with a luxury car) really made that amount sink in.

I think you made the right call. UMD was essentially paying you 400k to not go to Hopkins. That's a pretty sweet deal. It's a great school, and you'll no doubt be top of your class and match to whatever you want wherever you want. You can go back to Hopkins for residency and let them pay you for the big name education.

 

[whimsical]

Thanks for your advice. I decided to withdraw from Hopkins. I am debt averse and, while I may feel differently down the road, I'm not comfortable living beneath all that debt for the next 10-20 years of my life.

I have narrowed my choices to Pritzker and UMD. With generous support from Pritzker, the gap in cost between the two schools is not terrible (~60K). Having lived in Baltimore for two years, I am feeling the urge for a change of scenery (a big city, with lots to do).

Thanks again for all of your responses. Seeing what 600K looks like (a house with a luxury car) really made that amount sink in.

So I'm not sure if you've done this already, but if that's an amount of money that's concerning to you, you could call Pritzker and talk to them about it. They really do have money growing on trees there.

That being said, in that situation I'd probably choose Pritzker. But either way, you will be a great doctor (and with little debt!) so you'll be fine.

 

[stevens28]

Thanks for your response. Pritzker actually increased their scholarship 40% after I informed them of my competing offer. They didn't close the gap all the way, but their offer covers about 75% of my tuition.