UK medical schools "friendly" to U.S. citizens??

[645095]

Hello all,

I was hoping for some more information and some input on medical schools in the United Kingdom (UK). After doing a little research, it seems to me that some schools primarily pull from certain countries/geographical areas for their limited number of international spots. Also, some schools and programs, like the graduate entry at Swansea, don't even take any internationals. I found that a few schools don't require any entrance exams (Bristol, Plymouth, and Lancaster), and a big chunk require UKCAT. I would prefer to know about no entrance or UKCAT programs, and ones that would accept MCAT. Then a small minority require other entrance exams (BMAT, etc.). All being said, and not including factors such as "where one would want to live" and "just pick where you want to go," I was curious in general about "easy" schools (I know there are not any easy schools to get into), safe schools, and reach schools. I know a lot is dependent on entrance exam scores, but I was hoping for general opinions.

I guess the most basic question I am asking is....because under UCAS one can only apply to a limited number of spots, what UK schools would a generic US citizen have the best shot at applying to and getting in (graduate entry and "normal entry")?

Thanks!

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[cookie2015]

I don't think any are biased towards uk applicants - everything is based on ukcat, gamsat, bmat and university transcripts.

The universities with lower gamsat requirements/ look at your applications rather than just entrance exams (and are safer for graduates with less strong academics are): swansea, warwick, nottingham (4 year), plymouth (5 year), exeter (5 year) and st georges (4 year). If you are a graduate you need to take gamsat to apply to all of them (except warwick which requires ukcat). You can also apply to kings 4 year (if you have the equivalent of a 2.2 and a masters and do very well on the ukcat).

 

[Medstart108]

Edinburgh requires the MCAT for US citizen applicants. They are switching to a 6 year BSc/MD program next year, supposedly those with a Bachelor's or higher can petition to skip the BSc year and turn it into a 5 year program.

I believe Birmingham, Bristol and Liverpool don't require the UKCAT, but at the same time applicants tend to have better grades.

The schools differ in terms of what they ask for and look for. There are schools that look very heavily at the UKCAT like KCL and Newcastle. Others don't look at the UKCAT but ask for the BMAT like Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, UCL and Keele.

You also have to navigate the differences in requirements and eligibility between standard and graduate programs.

General opinion is that schools like Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, UCL and Imperial are "reaches". There really aren't any easy schools, only schools that look at more requirements, but generally the younger newer schools are going to be slightly easier to get into. Schools like UCLan, Buckingham, BSMS may be slightly easier.

Anyone serious about applying to the UK for either grad entry, undergrad entry or both should write the UKCAT. When you get your results from the UKCAT (you get it immediately after you write the exam) you should then decide on where to apply based on those scores.

I don't believe the UK schools are ever friendly or unfriendly to US students. The only exception is maybe Manchester which I once read preferred citizens from countries without good medical systems, which I can imagine will definitely not include the US. The best thing for you to do is to go through every schools' website and look for their requirements for internationals and in particular US students.

 

[deleted158872]

You can also apply to kings 4 year (if you have the equivalent of a 2.2 and a masters and do very well on the ukcat).

Note that it is "2:2 honours" and not 2.2 GPA

 

[deleted158872]

Anyone serious about applying to the UK for either grad entry, undergrad entry or both should write the UKCAT. When you get your results from the UKCAT (you get it immediately after you write the exam) you should then decide on where to apply based on those scores.

what are the advantages of studying med in the UK?
while doctors there are well-trained and job opportunities are good, the latter is not as good as in the US,
and doctors spend a lot more time on training (5 years residency for PCP, 8-10 for specialists).

 

[645095]

Thanks everyone, great information so far.

 

[Medstart108]

what are the advantages of studying med in the UK?
while doctors there are well-trained and job opportunities are good, the latter is not as good as in the US,
and doctors spend a lot more time on training (5 years residency for PCP, 8-10 for specialists).

As an international student or as a domestic? For domestic the benefits are pretty clear as the cost is usually 9000 pounds a year and you get to become a physician.

As an international student the benefit of course is that you are allowed to train and stay in the UK, the resources in the NHS are there and research is available. The healthcare system is mature and relatively well funded. Especially in the research scene, the UK plays a major role especially in major clinical trials.

British medical degrees are relatively well respected around the world especially in countries that were former British colonies which makes them portable. In Singapore for example, almost all of the UK medical schools are eligible for licensure while only slightly more than 30 US medical schools are eligible. Medical schools not from english speaking countries are not eligible either in Singapore.

Job opportunities aren't as good as in the US as not every UK foundation graduate can even get onto specialty training at all. However, that also means you have to prove yourself with your CV.

While training times are longer you do have to remember that medical school starts from high school for UK grads, so time is saved there and also working hours are much more limited especially with the EU working time directive. Training doctors usually work something around 60 hours a week (technically in violation of the 40 hour per week limit but hospitals get around it by placing some of those hours as "education") but still less than the 80-90 hours North American doctors work.

 

[Mad Jack]

Are you looking for schools that are friendly toward US applicants or "friendly" toward them?

 

[cookie2015]

what Maruko said I agree with - I'm from the UK and a lot of graduates aspire to get jobs in the US because hours worked as an intern are better and so is the pay (there have been a lot of stories in the papers about how overworked doctors in training are over here).

Medstart108 has also made some really helpful/ accurate points

 

[deleted158872]

what Maruko said I agree with - I'm from the UK and a lot of graduates aspire to get jobs in the US because hours worked as an intern are better and so is the pay (there have been a lot of stories in the papers about how overworked doctors in training are over here).

Medstart108 has also made some really helpful/ accurate points

hours as an INTERN are better in the US????? i think you should check again it is notorious for hospitals to abuse interns (residents) here, by overworking them. Before the law was passed to limit intern hours to 80h/week, it was even worse. but the law doesn't seem to have effect b/c hospitals have found ways to get around that limit.

 

[Mad Jack]

hours as an INTERN is better in the US????? i think you should check again

There's a great article on it at The Skeptical Scalpel. Basically, there are zero restrictions on hours so long as hours average to 48 hours per week. They've come up with all sorts of ways to abuse the interns via creativity and forcing them to come in off the clock.

 

[Medstart108]

I think any UK doctor that wants to practice in the US is mainly doing so for personal reasons such as a loved one from the US or because of pay or possibly better research opportunities. A lot of UK medical students talk about moving to the US but few actually end up doing so.
What usually ends up discouraging them is being away from loved ones and the USMLE.

 

[cookie2015]

I agree Medstart that Irish/UK students find it tough to pick up and leave. A big part of the reason people leave though lies with our broken hospital system, especially for those wanting to train in a specialty where you can train for 10-15 years and then have no consultant job at the end of it and be forced into emigration after spending a good portion of your life so far in UK and Ireland. The rubbish work conditions might be worth putting up with if there was light at the end of the tunnel but for many that light is forced emigration - so I've been told better to leave sooner than later (before even bothering with internship as no one will want to spend thousands on visas when they can just employ a local graduate).

This link is interesting: http://www.rcsismj.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/ChalikondaL-Emigration.pdf

Not even mentioned the 'politics' that come in to play. Not quite the same issues becoming a GP as you'll only have to work in the hospital system for 3-4 years before escaping to GP land (not saying that there aren't any issues there though): http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/bullying-of-trainee-doctors-is-endemic-30811997.html

So in short - I agree the US isn't all sunshine but if you're able to get through the hellish early stages (which I now agree is awful everywhere) the possibilities of career advancement, security and pay is better compensated later on in the US than UK/ Irish system. It would be telling to look at the numbers that leave for the US (compared to other countries) and don't come back. This is an interesting read: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/magazine/america-is-stealing-foreign-doctors.html?_r=0

 

[deleted158872]

however, in the US, doctors have to deal with insurance telling them what to do, lawyers watching over your shoulders, and patients are far more litigious.
if one wants to do what's best for patients and still have a life outside of work, Europe (UK, Germany), Australia and Canada are way better.

PS: honestly, if i get into med school in EU or Australia, returning to the US doesn't matter to me. Politics (i mean government) in the US is far more broken than in any other first-world countries. if we don't have a wise leader soon, this country will get much worse before it starts getting better.