UCLA (full-ride) vs. Hopkins vs. Yale vs. WashU

[playdoh]

This application cycle has been a very lucky one for me, and I ended up with really good options. I really appreciate all of your input in advance.

Firstly, I'm an international applicant. I'm not eligible for financial aid (non-Canadian International), and finance is not the most important factor for me. What's more important for me is the general atmosphere of the school (I really really really hate gunners and can't imagine going to a medical school filled with gunners) as well as how well their graduates do (aka how well they match). Quality of life during medical school is not something I'm willing to give up for any other factors, and I'd love to spend 4 years with people who share my views. Another factor that's very important for me is access/support for research.

I'm interested in a surgical specialty for now (although I'm open for other options), hoping to settle in California in the long-run.

UCLA
+Full-ride
+Location (~70% of this year's class matched within California)
+Student atmosphere: everyone seemed happy when I went to interview there.
+A lot of options for cultural activities, great music scene.
-Not that many students going into surgical specialties. (Primary-care focused)
-Bigger student body
-Public School: I'm worried that I'll be receiving less resources (for research) as a medical student compared to other private schools.

Johns Hopkins
+Unparalleled international reputation (my parents who doesn't speak English at all know Hopkins med)
+Great Curriculum
+Match list
+Great Resources, Hopkins Hospital is amazing.
+Nearly all of their home-residency programs are also amazing.
-Safety in Baltimore
-Not much to do in Baltimore
-People (including residents and med students) seemed gunner-esque, which is understandable..

Yale
+Yale System is really really really awesome. I think the Yale system would eliminate any
+Lots of people seem to match into California, which is where I'd love to end up. Their match list is awesome outside of California as well.
+Great Research Opportunities
+ I felt like I really fit in here.
-No so safe in New Haven (but it's really not that bad I guess compared to Baltimore.)

WashU: waiting to see if I get a merit scholarship offer
+Great program
+Great hospital
- I know I wrote that finance isn't a big deal but...they asked me to front $300K (cost of all 4 years of education) by June 1st....not chill.......like who has a spare 300K lying around?
-I really didn't vibe with the Midwest.

Once again, thank you so much for your input!

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[libertyyne]

WOW.

 

[Lawpy]

WOW.

I think OP is one of the first non-Canadian internationals to sweep the top tiers and get a full ride to a UC.

OP, financially speaking and given your long-term interests to settle in California in the long run, I would go to UCLA. Second pick would probably be Yale since you like the atmosphere.

 

[peridotthecat]

Yah, go to UCLA and don't look back. A free MD from an amazing school? Do it.

UCLA is a huge research institution, I'm sure you can find good research opportunities. There might be a bit more competition, but I doubt it's enough to make a substantial difference.

UCLA seems to fit all your important criteria, and I really can't see it hindering your residency prospects. Your classmates might go into primary care, but UCLA certainly has more than enough resources to get you into a competitive surgical specialty.

TLDR: you have the opportunity to study on the beach and go to a (highly respected) US MD school simultaneously. For free. Do it

 

[kneeshoe]

UCLA will give you opportunities anywhere, even if you aren't interested in primary-care.

congrats OP you are goals

 

[Willy38]

UCLA will give you opportunities anywhere, even if you aren't interested in primary-care.

congrats OP you are goals

Go where you'll do best/ be the happiest. Since finances aren't a huge issue I'd say go to Yale. Based on your pro/con list, dislike of gunners, desire for incredible research resources, it seems the best choice for you.

PM me if you have specific questions about Yale. And congrats on some awesome choices!!

 

[Radiata20]

Current UCLA student and Geffen Scholar here, so I obviously have my biases which you should be aware of and factor in appropriately. But here's the honest answer:

• Research resources--Haha don't even worry about this. This is a non-issue. If you came to our Second Look this past weekend, you'll know that every single student who wants to do research is not only fully-funded over the summer, but also easily finds PIs and labs to sign on with. Every single one of my classmates who wants to do research over this summer--which is most of them--squared everything away regarding funding and PIs weeks ago. Actually, many of them have been doing research already throughout the school year (the budding neurosurgeon started research weeks before classes even started last August, because neurosurgery haha). I have never heard of a single classmate or upperclassman who has ever had issues with getting enough research; in fact, at least one of the MS2s is working in multiple labs on multiple projects for different PIs.
  • We are a huge health system, and there are far more PIs and lab openings for med students than there are med students to fill them. There are over 3000 full-time faculty here. There are ~700 med students. Most labs would love to have multiple med students working for them, as we are free labor that still bring the energy and idealism common to med students. Labs that don't get enough med students to sign on will have to resort to undergrads to fill in instead, and there are many labs on campus that have to do this.
• Primary care--The number you're probably looking at is skewed. Remember that we have several special programs which are tailored to nurture physicians who want to go into primary care/underserved medicine, which are included in the school's summary figures for match. If you look at just the ~120 Geffen "undifferentiated" students, our match list looks exactly like you'd expect it to. Actually, this year it was phenomenal, with those 7 matches into derm. If you're looking at the overview statistics posted on the website, keep in mind that they included internal medicine under the primary care umbrella; however, the majority of those IM matches are going to subspecialize in something like cards, pulm, onc, etc.
• Want to stay in California?--Welcome to UCLA.
• Don't like gunners?--We're true pass/fail preclinical grades, with no internal ranking.
• Bigger student body--Certainly a valid consideration, and one that I thought about. I went to a VERY small high school, with a smaller class size than almost any med school aside from Mayo and CCLCM, so trust me when I say I understand the benefits of a small class size as well as anyone. No, you will not know all 180 of your classmates here as well as you would have known your classmates at somewhere with 90 students per class. But statistically, you will meet 2x as many people with whom you get along, 2x as many people with whom you share the same strange/quirky/unique interests, and 2x as many best friends whom you'll keep for life.

My advice? Ask any attendings you know for their advice. The mentors who know you can give you better, more tailored insight than anyone here on this forum. I was faced with a similar decision, between UCLA with the scholarship vs. another top school in CA. I had personal ties related to the other school, and had a hard time letting go of it. But after asking all 9 attendings who knew me, every single one without even the slightest hesitation said to go to UCLA without question. It wasn't the only thing that swung my decision-making, but the advice of 9 seasoned attendings isn't something to take lightly either.

Still, there are valid reasons to turn down this scholarship, despite what many posters on this forum would like to believe. For example, maybe you have an ailing family member whom you'd like to be nearby, and be able to easily visit on their deathbed while in med school. No one here could fault you for turning down this scholarship and attending a more local institution for that. The cost of and debt incurred from medical education is significant, and you will keep it for decades. But the memories of being with your loved one during their final moments, those you will keep for a lifetime.

My personal ties to the school and region up north were not nearly so strong, however. So after mapping out exactly what effect the debt would have on my monthly finances for x years, and making my peace with those personal ties about being farther away from them, I committed here and have never since regretted it. Hope to see you here in July

 

[Fortyfive]

Current UCLA student and Geffen Scholar here, so I obviously have my biases which you should be aware of and factor in appropriately. But here's the honest answer:

• Research resources--Haha don't even worry about. This is a non-issue. If you came to our Second Look this past weekend, you'll that every single student who wants to do research is not only fully-funded over the summer, but also easily finds PIs and labs to sign on with. Every single one of my classmates who wants to do research over this summer--which is most of them--squared everything away regarding funding and PIs weeks ago. Actually, many of them have been doing research already throughout the school year (the budding neurosurgeon started research weeks before classes even started last August, because neurosurgery haha). I have never heard of a single classmate or upperclassman who has ever had issues with getting enough research; in fact, at least one of the MS2s is working in multiple labs on multiple projects for different PIs.
  • We are a huge health system, and there are far more PIs and lab openings for med students than there are med students to fill them. There are over 3000 full-time faculty here. There are ~700 med students. Most labs would love to have multiple med students working for them, as we are free labor that still bring the energy and idealism common to med students. Labs that don't get enough med students to sign on will have to resort to undergrads to fill in instead, and there are many labs on campus that have to do this.
• Primary care--The number you're probably looking at is skewed. Remember that we have several special programs which are tailored to nurture physicians who want to go into primary care/underserved medicine, which are included in the school's summary figures for match. If you look at just the ~120 Geffen "undifferentiated" students, our match list looks exactly like you'd expect it to. Actually, this year it was phenomenal, with those 7 matches into derm. If you're looking at the overview statistics posted on the website, keep in mind that they included internal medicine under the primary care umbrella; however, the majority of those IM matches are going to subspecialize in something like cards, pulm, onc, etc.
• Want to stay in California?--Welcome to UCLA.
• Don't like gunners?--We're true pass/fail preclinical grades, with no internal ranking.
• Bigger student body--Certainly a valid consideration, and one that I thought about. I went to a VERY small high school, with a smaller class size than almost any med school aside from Mayo and CCLCM, so trust me when I say I understand the benefits of a small class size as well as anyone. No, you will not know all 180 of your classmates here as well as you would have known your classmates at somewhere with 90 students per class. But statistically, you will meet 2x as many people with whom you get along, 2x as many people with whom you share the same strange/quirky/unique interests, and 2x as many best friends whom you'll keep for life.

My advice? Ask any attendings you know for their advice. The mentors who know you can give you better, more tailored insight than anyone here on this forum. I was faced with a similar decision, between UCLA with the scholarship vs. another top school in CA. I had personal ties related to the other school, and had a hard time letting go of it. But after asking all 9 attendings who knew me, every single one without even the slightest hesitation said to go to UCLA without question. It wasn't the only thing that swung my decision-making, but the advice of 9 seasoned attendings isn't something to take lightly either.

Still, there are valid reasons to turn down this scholarship, despite what many posters on this forum would like to believe. For example, maybe you have an ailing family member whom you'd like to be nearby, and be able to easily visit on their deathbed while in med school. No one here could fault you for turning down this scholarship and attending a more local institution for that. The cost of and debt incurred from medical education is significant, and you will keep it for decades. But the memories of being with your loved one during their final moments, those you will keep for a lifetime.

My personal ties to the school and region up north were not nearly so strong, however. So after mapping out exactly what effect the debt would have on my monthly finances for x years, and making my peace with those personal ties about being farther away from them, I committed here and have never since regretted it. Hope to see you here in July

Wow this post got me super excited to attend UCLA!!

and i didn't even get an interview invite...