Trying to getting clinical position is a challenge

[Fluffhead.D]

I mean, tough. Been looking for 9 months, networking, calling on all contacts, yielding very little actionable leads. I have even received BCPS in that time as I have some clinical experience but all/most employers are wanting “recent inpatient experience”. It’s nuts, in 15 years we’ve gone from rock stars to disposable commodities. Any advice? I have been thinking about PGY1, though time is ticking.

Anyone one else have similar experience or thoughts?

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[BigBoss]

Why not do retail?

 

[Fluffhead.D]

Why not do retail?

My experience is the focus is on dispensing and pumping out widgets in those outfits. Reimbursement is tiny, so it’s a volume game. Not interested in that. Been there and done that. Perhaps what I’m looking for is some sort of dream world scenario. Transition of care, ambulatory care are all super competitive and PGY1 people are scooping those up or others.

 

[Son_Goku]

So you're old and you want a clinical position without doing a residency?

 

[Fluffhead.D]

So you're old and you want a clinical position without doing a residency?

The supply/demand balance in the industry would seem to indicate that is needed right now. Considering that. Old? Hahaha. Cute

 

[Lnsean]

your app will go in the trash unless you have residency or residency-equivalent experiences.

 

[Fluffhead.D]

You expect to get hired in a hospital with 15 years retail experience? Good luck. At least a new grad is trainable and will have basic knowledge fresh in their mind

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I do expect that, at least an entry level or OP position in that institution. I work in a compounding and assisted living independent. Done management, run some clinical functions. So it’s not the traditional stuff you see at Walgreens and CVS, though I’ve done plenty of it. The thing I have over a new grad is experience in dealing with health care professionals and having the wisdom in handling tough situations. That stuff you only learn by getting schooled first hand. I’m getting the sense that since outpatient is my experience, I’m somehow devalued or ineffective. Which is crap, because I work my tail off and have a proven track record. But metro markets are tough, so I keep looking and networking.

 

[Son_Goku]

I do expect that, at least an entry level or OP position in that institution. I work in a compounding and assisted living independent. Done management, run some clinical functions. So it’s not the traditional stuff you see at Walgreens and CVS, though I’ve done plenty of it. The thing I have over a new grad is experience in dealing with health care professionals and having the wisdom in handling tough situations. That stuff you only learn by getting schooled first hand. I’m getting the sense that since outpatient is my experience, I’m somehow devalued or ineffective. Which is crap, because I work my tail off and have a proven track record. But metro markets are tough, so I keep looking and networking.

They're not looking for experience. And not especially older folks who are too thick to be molded to their liking. (i.e. "I got tons of experience. I've been there and done that. Don't tell me what to do").

They are looking for institutionalized candidates (i.e. gang initiation for at least one year).

 

[Fluffhead.D]

They're not looking for experience. And not especially older folks who are too thick to be molded to their liking. (i.e. "I got tons of experience. I've been there and done that. Don't tell me what to do").

They are looking for institutionalized candidates (i.e. gang initiation for at least one year).

Sure, I can see where that is an issue. I’m not even 40, still full of drive and passion and ready for new challenges. Perhaps that should be the focus. My current position would be choice except for the lack of company culture, lack of respect from non pharmacist businessmen owners and getting a schedule the Friday before the Monday shift. That’s BS

 

[gwarm01]

At least a new grad is trainable and will have basic knowledge fresh in their mind

They're not looking for experience. And not especially older folks who are too thick to be molded to their liking. (i.e. "I got tons of experience. I've been there and done that. Don't tell me what to do").

Unfortunately this is true. Your experience is only going to be valued if it is very specific to a specialized position. For more general clinical or staffing type jobs it will be seen as a liability. Someone young and fresh out of residency is already conditioned to abuse, won't bat an eye at working a terrible schedule, and is at the right time in their career to be molded to that institutions policies and culture.

Sometimes you'll find a hospital that's willing to give you a chance, but that becomes increasingly unlikely as the kool-aid drinkers become the majority.

Have you considered applying to hospitals with outpatient pharmacies? That could be a way to get your foot in the door.

Sure, I can see where that is an issue. I’m not even 40, still full of drive and passion and ready for new challenges. Perhaps that should be the focus. My current position would be choice except for the lack of company culture, lack of respect from non pharmacist businessmen owners and getting a schedule the Friday before the Monday shift. That’s BS

I'm in my early 30's and already feel like I'm approaching the silent ageism in pharmacy. I'm leaning towards an administrative path because every passing year makes it less likely that I'll ever return to clinical work. Who is going to hire someone in their mid-30's with no residency when you can get a 26 year old that will take way more abuse?

Just a warning.. during my clinical days, our schedules would often not come out until a few days before they started. I never knew what day or shift I would be working. Getting a vacation approved was nearly impossible.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

Unfortunately this is true. Your experience is only going to be valued if it is very specific to a specialized position. For more general clinical or staffing type jobs it will be seen as a liability. Someone young and fresh out of residency is already conditioned to abuse, won't bat an eye at working a terrible schedule, and is at the right time in their career to be molded to that institutions policies and culture.

Sometimes you'll find a hospital that's willing to give you a chance, but that becomes increasingly unlikely as the kool-aid drinkers become the majority.

Have you considered applying to hospitals with outpatient pharmacies? That could be a way to get your foot in the door.



I'm in my early 30's and already feel like I'm approaching the silent ageism in pharmacy. I'm leaning towards an administrative path because every passing year makes it less likely that I'll ever return to clinical work. Who is going to hire someone in their mid-30's with no residency when you can get a 26 year old that will take way more abuse?

Just a warning.. during my clinical days, our schedules would often not come out until a few days before they started. I never knew what day or shift I would be working. Getting a vacation approved was nearly impossible.

How does one go about getting on the administrative path, though? Getting an MBA? There are co-workers with 5-15yrs experience more than me... I feel like it’s impossible unless it’s in 20-30years and they all retire.


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[gwarm01]

How does one go about getting on the administrative path, though? Getting an MBA? There are co-workers with 5-15yrs experience more than me... I feel like it’s impossible unless it’s in 20-30years and they all retire.


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I went into informatics, another hurdle of its own, which allowed me to work closely with management. I was put on interdisciplinary committees, part of policy discussions, and worked on several large projects. It would be a pretty easy transition into a management position from here, or potentially higher up the ladder and out of pharmacy entirely. I just don't know that I actually want to do that.

edit: on how I actually did it.. moved from a desirable metro area to an undesirable one that I had connections in. Basically got the job based on the reputation I had from my time as an intern and because no one else was applying to the job.

 

[Son_Goku]

Sure, I can see where that is an issue. I’m not even 40, still full of drive and passion and ready for new challenges. Perhaps that should be the focus. My current position would be choice except for the lack of company culture, lack of respect from non pharmacist businessmen owners and getting a schedule the Friday before the Monday shift. That’s BS

You're in the wrong career field.

 

[Lnsean]

I do expect that, at least an entry level or OP position in that institution. I work in a compounding and assisted living independent. Done management, run some clinical functions. So it’s not the traditional stuff you see at Walgreens and CVS, though I’ve done plenty of it. The thing I have over a new grad is experience in dealing with health care professionals and having the wisdom in handling tough situations. That stuff you only learn by getting schooled first hand. I’m getting the sense that since outpatient is my experience, I’m somehow devalued or ineffective. Which is crap, because I work my tail off and have a proven track record. But metro markets are tough, so I keep looking and networking.

Doesn't matter what you think you've done or are capable of. When someone sees 15 years at CVS...it means only one thing: you are looking for a way out. No one wants to take a chance at that. Unless you have good connections, you're pretty much out of luck. There are plenty of residency trained graduates with recent experiences to choose from.

 

[samven582]

Just a warning.. during my clinical days, our schedules would often not come out until a few days before they started. I never knew what day or shift I would be working. Getting a vacation approved was nearly impossible.

The main reason why I want to leave the hospital setting. Unstable schedule, impossible to get vacation approved, seniority BS. To the OP, my suggestion is to look into MTM or managed care for clinical work.

 

[lord999]

So, you end paying your dues somehow. The gang initiation through residency or a bad job in a place where no one more qualified is there (unless you're willing to work on your back).

Think of it this way, when you chose retail all those years ago, you made over 30% more than your hospital no resident peers 15 years ago. You got your end of the bargain already upfront. Unless something incredible happens, the downsides to taking you are genuine, and you start at the bottom of the career path for institutional practice.

 

[Fluffhead.D]

So, you end paying your dues somehow. The gang initiation through residency or a bad job in a place where no one more qualified is there (unless you're willing to work on your back).

Think of it this way, when you chose retail all those years ago, you made over 30% more than your hospital no resident peers 15 years ago. You got your end of the bargain already upfront. Unless something incredible happens, the downsides to taking you are genuine, and you start at the bottom of the career path for institutional practice.

Damnit, these are all my fears realized and in an especially messed up pharmacist job market. Totally took the pay and flexibility upfront years ago and had some amazing experiences that were priceless. There are few OP positions posting in these institutions she nice looking. I know they all have them. Hoping to use that as a stepping stone to move within. I’m very confident (not arrogant and hubristic) that once in, I’ll prove myself and worth. I have several connections in place but their departments aren’t hiring yet (closed open positions due to budget issues, etc) or haven’t posted positions since I’ve been looking. I’m hopeful that could land me an interview. I feel like I can make the case from there. Frankly, I need someone to take a chance on me, they won’t be disappointed. TBD

 

[lord999]

Damnit, these are all my fears realized and in an especially messed up pharmacist job market. Totally took the pay and flexibility upfront years ago and had some amazing experiences that were priceless. There are few OP positions posting in these institutions she nice looking. I know they all have them. Hoping to use that as a stepping stone to move within. I’m very confident (not arrogant and hubristic) that once in, I’ll prove myself and worth. I have several connections in place but their departments aren’t hiring yet (closed open positions due to budget issues, etc) or haven’t posted positions since I’ve been looking. I’m hopeful that could land me an interview. I feel like I can make the case from there. Frankly, I need someone to take a chance on me, they won’t be disappointed. TBD

And any other attitude, you'd be truly hopeless. I knew plenty of second career people in my class (as in, the average age of my class at P1 was 35, with me as the youngest and a 52 yo (who is still practicing and more than made her money back at 69). Just take the 15 year chain run as a good thing, because it was, and act as this is a completely new career where you're going to have to go in the hard way (experience counts against you more than it does for you and certainly do not expect your payday to be in the same category as your retail/specialty pay). Again, there are rare exceptions if you want to go to some very undesirable area or you just happen to have some necessary quality that the pharmacy just needs, but otherwise, it won't be that sort of matter.

Look at the positives, you aren't any of those future debt slaves in pharmacy school right now paying an order of magnitude more than we did, and we got the work we wanted and the money we needed when we had the energy to do so. I think by working institutional, I have lost out on about $650k worth of straight salary difference over 15 years (probably more) between retail and hospital practice that I had to make up otherwise. On the other hand, I've had interesting work, and I have a cushy job that puts me in a place where killing as many people as I do through my job is a statistic, not malpractice, and I can take an pension at $58k if I so want to retire immediately today, and $92k/year if I stick it out until 57 for my efforts toward national order and world peace. For that, I'm grateful that I went the institutional pharmacy route.

 

[Fluffhead.D]

I hear what everyone is saying, any other tips or ideas to get more interviews or to become more

And any other attitude, you'd be truly hopeless. I knew plenty of second career people in my class (as in, the average age of my class at P1 was 35, with me as the youngest and a 52 yo (who is still practicing and more than made her money back at 69). Just take the 15 year chain run as a good thing, because it was, and act as this is a completely new career where you're going to have to go in the hard way (experience counts against you more than it does for you and certainly do not expect your payday to be in the same category as your retail/specialty pay). Again, there are rare exceptions if you want to go to some very undesirable area or you just happen to have some necessary quality that the pharmacy just needs, but otherwise, it won't be that sort of matter.

Look at the positives, you aren't any of those future debt slaves in pharmacy school right now paying an order of magnitude more than we did, and we got the work we wanted and the money we needed when we had the energy to do so. I think by working institutional, I have lost out on about $650k worth of straight salary difference over 15 years (probably more) between retail and hospital practice that I had to make up otherwise. On the other hand, I've had interesting work, and I have a cushy job that puts me in a place where killing as many people as I do through my job is a statistic, not malpractice, and I can take an pension at $58k if I so want to retire immediately today, and $92k/year if I stick it out until 57 for my efforts toward national order and world peace. For that, I'm grateful that I went the institutional pharmacy route.

And any other attitude, you'd be truly hopeless. I knew plenty of second career people in my class (as in, the average age of my class at P1 was 35, with me as the youngest and a 52 yo (who is still practicing and more than made her money back at 69). Just take the 15 year chain run as a good thing, because it was, and act as this is a completely new career where you're going to have to go in the hard way (experience counts against you more than it does for you and certainly do not expect your payday to be in the same category as your retail/specialty pay). Again, there are rare exceptions if you want to go to some very undesirable area or you just happen to have some necessary quality that the pharmacy just needs, but otherwise, it won't be that sort of matter.

Look at the positives, you aren't any of those future debt slaves in pharmacy school right now paying an order of magnitude more than we did, and we got the work we wanted and the money we needed when we had the energy to do so. I think by working institutional, I have lost out on about $650k worth of straight salary difference over 15 years (probably more) between retail and hospital practice that I had to make up otherwise. On the other hand, I've had interesting work, and I have a cushy job that puts me in a place where killing as many people as I do through my job is a statistic, not malpractice, and I can take an pension at $58k if I so want to retire immediately today, and $92k/year if I stick it out until 57 for my efforts toward national order and world peace. For that, I'm grateful that I went the institutional pharmacy route.

I appreciate your thoughts. Sure, I’ve made a ton of $$$ and have zero debt, true. But would I have done it all again knowing what I know now??? Possibly not. Times were deifferent then, the sky was the limit.

 

[Fluffhead.D]

So, in networking I’ve been emailing with a hiring manager that I interviewed with a couple years ago with a highly respected company’s OP position. Ultimately, never got it to an internal hire but she’s asking me: “why do you want to leave?! You have bankers hours, no holidays, etc. This place can be a real grind and the schedule isn’t the best. What wrong with your job/company?”

How is this honest assessment and question approached/answered from someone looking and not wanting to trash the company I so loathe? I’m pumped for any new opportunity, especially for one with advancement potential. Is this a test or is she thinking I’m totally nuts? She did appear completely wiped out and overworked in our interview 2 years ago. She since stepped down from that position to Am Care clinical but has tons of contacts all over and remembered quite a few more details from my interview than I was expecting. So that’s a good sign

 

[lord999]

So, in networking I’ve been emailing with a hiring manager that I interviewed with a couple years ago with a highly respected company’s OP position. Ultimately, never got it to an internal hire but she’s asking me: “why do you want to leave?! You have bankers hours, no holidays, etc. This place can be a real grind and the schedule isn’t the best. What wrong with your job/company?”

How is this honest assessment and question approached/answered from someone looking and not wanting to trash the company I so loathe? I’m pumped for any new opportunity, especially for one with advancement potential. Is this a test or is she thinking I’m totally nuts? She did appear completely wiped out and overworked in our interview 2 years ago. She since stepped down from that position to Am Care clinical but has tons of contacts all over and remembered quite a few more details from my interview than I was expecting. So that’s a good sign

"I want something different. I know I have it good, but I like diversity." would be the politically correct theme.

 

[gwarm01]

"I want something different. I know I have it good, but I like diversity." would be the politically correct theme.

Translation: If I have to work one more day with these maniacs I will set my car on fire and drive it off a bridge.