Hi everyone, I'm a senior in high school and I wanted to get everyone's opinions on a topic. I'm applying to a couple of select bs/md programs that felt had a lot of potential and amazing grads coming out of those programs and some top undergrad schools. The med. programs that I really liked after talking to doctors, people in the program, etc are Case Western PPSP, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) Physician-Scientist Program (PSP), Northwestern's HPME, and Rice/Baylor. I KNOW that these 4 med. programs are top and the grads are doing really well whatever the undergrad/med. schools are because they were able to get into the program and do well throughout. The bs/md program route looks more stress-free, but it's very, very tough to get into these 4 programs. I just wanna know what you would do now that some of you are going through the med. school admission process. I know that some of these programs such as the RPI one is really selective for admission, but does not require students to take the MCAT at all. Thanks a bunch.
Traditional way versus BS/MD route
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i had a friend from high school go into the program at Brown and she did fine (but she was pretty dedicated). No MCAT, no stress, and the requirements werent even that high to maintain a spot in the program.
tho i know some programs are scrapping this program or cutting down the number of people they take because once they start actual med classes they struggle and dont do as well...(i.e Creighton and etc...)
but yeah. if you can get picked into one of these programs and if thats what you want to do. then go for it.
i personally loved grueling over secondaries and falling asleep at the mcat. rock on.
haha no but i truly enjoyed my undergrad experience and now that i am done with the secondaries...i guess i can appreciate those too.....if i had a chance to go back and make a different decision i wouldnt. but thats just me.
tho i know some programs are scrapping this program or cutting down the number of people they take because once they start actual med classes they struggle and dont do as well...(i.e Creighton and etc...)
but yeah. if you can get picked into one of these programs and if thats what you want to do. then go for it.
i personally loved grueling over secondaries and falling asleep at the mcat. rock on.
haha no but i truly enjoyed my undergrad experience and now that i am done with the secondaries...i guess i can appreciate those too.....if i had a chance to go back and make a different decision i wouldnt. but thats just me.
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Same here. I prefer the traditional route. You get to travel, meet people, the ups and the downs... It's an experience! Plus just because BU or Northwestern have really good schools (both undergrad and med) that doesn't mean that you won't like other schools along the way.
My advise : Go where you think you will enjoy the most.
My advise : Go where you think you will enjoy the most.
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I applied to the early acceptance program at McGill university in 2000. Needless to say, I was rejected without even an interview. Those programs are tough to get into, but I don't necessarily agree with the idea that students who pursue this route tend to struggle. On the contrary, I know of several former "early med" students who went on into residencies such as Cardiothoracic, Neurosurgery, General surgery etc...
Regards,
Smartreader
Regards,
Smartreader
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doctormd--
Personally, I would do the traditional route. I had so many amazing experiences during undergrad that I wouldn't trade for anything...least of which is the med school application process. Also, take into consideration that if you do a BS/MD program, things like Peace Corps, Americorps might be out the question. You should always keep your goal in mind, but also enjoy your trip. And remember, it isn't race to see how fast you can finish. Choose a route where you think you will grow the most. Anyway, that is just what I think.
Personally, I would do the traditional route. I had so many amazing experiences during undergrad that I wouldn't trade for anything...least of which is the med school application process. Also, take into consideration that if you do a BS/MD program, things like Peace Corps, Americorps might be out the question. You should always keep your goal in mind, but also enjoy your trip. And remember, it isn't race to see how fast you can finish. Choose a route where you think you will grow the most. Anyway, that is just what I think.
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Apply all over, and give your self lots of room to decide. I've heard great things about the program at brown, people have said taking all their classes pass/fail and still being assured a spot in the med program only made their undergrad that much more enjoyable. .
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A general surgery spot [which leads to CT, CR, Platics and Ortho, and obviously GS] isn't that hard to get anymore. At the same time though I'm sure there are also plenty of traditional route students who struggle and are lazy just like the accelerated kids.
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If you could get into one of those programs, you should definitely go for it!!! When I was a senior in high school I was accepted to SUNY new paltz's DO program but ultimately ended up going somewhere else. During the time I was at my undergrad, I was tortured by the fact that I could have and "should have" gone to the DO program and regretted immensely. Now, however, everything is ok so I'm glad but if I was you, I would definitely not let this exquisite chance slip my fingers. Just my 2 cents.
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Out of high school, I actually considered these programs. I applied to quite a few and was admitted into programs at Brown, Northwestern, UMKC, Case Western, and NEOUCOM (but I was rejected from my top choice...UCSD!). Some of these programs required a minimum MCAT to continue (USC and NEOUCOM), while others only require that you maintain a certain GPA. BS/MD programs are definitely not everyone! I decided not to go about this route because it was somewhat restrictive. I wanted to have a different college experience vs. a medical experience.
BS/MD programs are not for everyone. They require at least 1400 SAT and a cumulative GPA of at least 4.5 (or finish in the top 10 of your class)+ lots of extracurriculars that show your full exploration of medicine. Competition is pretty stiff. Do these programs if you want to have a "free" college experience...free time to explore different leadership roles, free semesters to go abroad. Do not enter these programs if you're trying to avoid the MCAT or flake off in college. The undergraduate years is a time for you to explore yourself. Good luck on whatever you decide. If you have questions, i can refer you to my friend ____ at Northwestern who is in the program.
BS/MD programs are not for everyone. They require at least 1400 SAT and a cumulative GPA of at least 4.5 (or finish in the top 10 of your class)+ lots of extracurriculars that show your full exploration of medicine. Competition is pretty stiff. Do these programs if you want to have a "free" college experience...free time to explore different leadership roles, free semesters to go abroad. Do not enter these programs if you're trying to avoid the MCAT or flake off in college. The undergraduate years is a time for you to explore yourself. Good luck on whatever you decide. If you have questions, i can refer you to my friend ____ at Northwestern who is in the program.
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i say go for the BS/MD spot. unless you are really gonna miss partying, etc., i would probably opt to get on with my life two years before everyone else.
if i would have known about these programs, that's where i'd be now (my high school #'s were good enough). i, unfortunately, went to a ****ty public school in the middle of nowhere. when i told my h.s. guidance counselor i wanted to go to med school, she looked at me like, "oh, really...um, i don't have any brouchures about that...no one here has ever wanted to be 'successful,'...have you thought about vocational school?"
dead silence ensues...
if i would have known about these programs, that's where i'd be now (my high school #'s were good enough). i, unfortunately, went to a ****ty public school in the middle of nowhere. when i told my h.s. guidance counselor i wanted to go to med school, she looked at me like, "oh, really...um, i don't have any brouchures about that...no one here has ever wanted to be 'successful,'...have you thought about vocational school?"
dead silence ensues...
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I actually was thinking about Northwesterns program. I made the decision though not to restrict myself. I thought it was for the best because :
a) I received a kick-butt undergrad merit scholarship!
b) I didn't like NWU med school.
a) I received a kick-butt undergrad merit scholarship!
b) I didn't like NWU med school.
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About everyone saying that there may be a lack of experiences for those in the combined programs, I beg to differ.
I see premeds at schools like hopkins, killing themselves to maintain ridiculous statistics and freaking out of a 92.1 (oh my god!) - not having that much fun, or experienceing nearly as many things (such as going abroad).
Then I check out the guys in the combined programs, and they're traveling to India, Africa, doing study abroad programs, and litterally having a blast every weekend. Why? Because they've only got to maintain a 3.5 each semester to stay in the program - most people came with a lot of AP credit so they've got a couple of classes that are very managable - and best of all, no MCATs. So they're extremly relaxed, and taking whatever classes they want for the sake of learning.
What could be better? Stress free, worry free, liberal, relaxed education where youre guaranteed into medical school - usually faster saving you a year of tuition.
I may be wrong, but I think it sounds pretty practical...
I see premeds at schools like hopkins, killing themselves to maintain ridiculous statistics and freaking out of a 92.1 (oh my god!) - not having that much fun, or experienceing nearly as many things (such as going abroad).
Then I check out the guys in the combined programs, and they're traveling to India, Africa, doing study abroad programs, and litterally having a blast every weekend. Why? Because they've only got to maintain a 3.5 each semester to stay in the program - most people came with a lot of AP credit so they've got a couple of classes that are very managable - and best of all, no MCATs. So they're extremly relaxed, and taking whatever classes they want for the sake of learning.
What could be better? Stress free, worry free, liberal, relaxed education where youre guaranteed into medical school - usually faster saving you a year of tuition.
I may be wrong, but I think it sounds pretty practical...
Wow, thank you so much for the responses, I really appreaciate it. The four med programs that I'm gonna apply for (BU, RPI, NW, and Brown) are all really, really competitive after I took a look at the average score and the number of applicants accepted. I talked to a couple of kids in the programs (one at RPI, the other at Brown) and to other kids at top, top undergrad schools. I know that at Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst, the program is amazing for research, really relaxed, no MCAT's, and the grads of the med. program after med. school go on to really great places and I know one guy thats a neurosurgeon now so I'm not too worried about the undergrad/med. schools for any of these schools cause the people in the med. program tend to do really well. I guess I'm now leaning towards the bs/md route. It seems like a more stress-free and more fun pathway. One thing I was worried about was the name of the schools (BU vs. Cornell or something), but in the med. field, I found out that name really doesn't take presidence over merit. More suggestions? Thanks
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It seems to me from reading what you write, you're really interested in getting the undergraduate stress out of the way, and that's fine. You should also be truly convinced about the premise that you can be anything from any US med school you go to. If these two are true, then you probably are good to go through BS/MD programs.
DO NOT go to these programs if you're going to slack off with the stress out of the way. Most of what you learn as an undergrad might be useless in med school, but in some courses, what you learn really matters.
As for free time, you'll be worry-free for the next three to four years knowing that you will be a doctor. Imagine how many hours of free-time you have as compared to a traditional applicant! You'll gain outside knowledge too...
Again, don't do it if you're one of those people who needs a good name college to go to...
DO NOT go to these programs if you're going to slack off with the stress out of the way. Most of what you learn as an undergrad might be useless in med school, but in some courses, what you learn really matters.
As for free time, you'll be worry-free for the next three to four years knowing that you will be a doctor. Imagine how many hours of free-time you have as compared to a traditional applicant! You'll gain outside knowledge too...
Again, don't do it if you're one of those people who needs a good name college to go to...
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It's not actually THAT stress free as you tend to think. Those students ARE competitive and the schools place very heavy tasks on their shoulders.
I also didn't get what you meant about the travel abroad part. I am in the traditional 4 year undergrad and i got to do a semester abroad that i loved.
Plus why limit your choices? My brother lives in MA and he said that his least favourite out of the MA schools was BU. Had he gone the BS/MD route he wouldn't have enjoyed it as much and wouldn't have gotten into schools that he loves such as Vandy.
Same goes for me. As i already said, NWU is very low on my list of favourite schools. Had i gone that route i would have missed seeing other med schools that i would have fit in better.
Stress is always there, the work is always there. You just win a year and the expenses of travelling around. That's all! If you see the application process though as a growing experience then you will realise that the traditional route is so much better!
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Suggestion:
Go for the BS/MD route (if you can make it) and if you think that you can do without the typical undergraduate "education". If you're planning of partying, getting drunk and wanting to explore alternative careers then going to an undergrad is the right choice for you. But if you are DEAD serious about getting into med school, the BS/MD program is the better one. Think about it, if you were pre-med in an undergrad and of above average intelligence you'd basically have no life anyway studying for classes/exams/mcats which would really really suck. The benefits of the MD/BS program greatly overwhelms its disadvantages. You will save LOTs aND LOTS of money, including time which can be spent better off getting to do things that you would enjoy and an earlier head start to boot! Also, forget about all that "traditional route" is better crap because that's the so-called "hindsight bias" . Sure, maybe 10 years from now, if you chose the undergrad route, you're going to look at it as something pleasant and fun but it ain't fun when you're living through it! I know from experience cuz I was at that stage 2 weeks ago! In any case, just trust your instincts...
[rant off]
Go for the BS/MD route (if you can make it) and if you think that you can do without the typical undergraduate "education". If you're planning of partying, getting drunk and wanting to explore alternative careers then going to an undergrad is the right choice for you. But if you are DEAD serious about getting into med school, the BS/MD program is the better one. Think about it, if you were pre-med in an undergrad and of above average intelligence you'd basically have no life anyway studying for classes/exams/mcats which would really really suck. The benefits of the MD/BS program greatly overwhelms its disadvantages. You will save LOTs aND LOTS of money, including time which can be spent better off getting to do things that you would enjoy and an earlier head start to boot! Also, forget about all that "traditional route" is better crap because that's the so-called "hindsight bias" . Sure, maybe 10 years from now, if you chose the undergrad route, you're going to look at it as something pleasant and fun but it ain't fun when you're living through it! I know from experience cuz I was at that stage 2 weeks ago! In any case, just trust your instincts...
[rant off]
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crazee8 said:
I second that. Apply to lots of stuff outside of BS/MD progs even if you're sure you want to go down that path. Even with incredible numbers, if your interviews at subpar, you will not get in.
I got into NW's HPME and CWRU's PPSP programs in hs also, and I was faced with the same difficult decision. I ended up choosing to forego the BS/MD route. I think you should wait until you have visited all the schools that you're applying to before leaning towards any option. Also, take time to explore yourself and what you really want in life.
That said, I think this is a big decision, and that you will probably have some regrets/doubts no matter which route you ultimately choose. It's hard to know how your life would've been different if you had chosen differently. Everyone has a different outlook in life, so I would recommend only listening to advice from someone who is similar in personality to yours.
