Top Anesthesia Programs

[SCDoc4]

Hey guys,

For all you Anesthesia residents out there or those students who know a lot about it, I am a M4 in the MidWest who has been Anesthesia since I can remember. In that, applications are coming up and I was wondering if anyone had a list or link of the top Anesthesia programs in the country?

I've looked at US NEWS and other sources but can't find anything about Anesthesia specifically.

Thanks a bunch for any information that you may have.

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[Mman]

Hey guys,

For all you Anesthesia residents out there or those students who know a lot about it, I am a M4 in the MidWest who has been Anesthesia since I can remember. In that, applications are coming up and I was wondering if anyone had a list or link of the top Anesthesia programs in the country?

I've looked at US NEWS and other sources but can't find anything about Anesthesia specifically.

Thanks a bunch for any information that you may have.

Ask the residency director or department chair of the anesthesia department at your school what they think about other programs nationally. That's the best you will get. There is no "top xx" list of residency programs. The usual suspects would include (in no order other than quasi-geographically) MGH, BWH, Columbia, Penn, Hopkins, Duke, WashU, Michigan, Northwestern, Stanford, UCSF, etc. amongst others.

 

[lane]

Who cares...

If you want to go into academia it may make a difference. If that's your passion, try to find programs with strong research tracks that can help boost your CV early on.

If you plan to go into private practice, however, it doesn't matter. It's easier to find a job geographically closer to where you trained because of networking, so keep that in mind. The most important thing you can do is find a place where you'll be happy; what makes you happy, though, depends on your priorities.

A program doesn't make you a strong anesthesiologist. That's up to you.

 

[SCDoc4]

Who cares...

If you want to go into academia it may make a difference. If that's your passion, try to find programs with strong research tracks that can help boost your CV early on.

If you plan to go into private practice, however, it doesn't matter. It's easier to find a job geographically closer to where you trained because of networking, so keep that in mind. The most important thing you can do is find a place where you'll be happy; what makes you happy, though, depends on your priorities.

A program doesn't make you a strong anesthesiologist. That's up to you.

Thanks for the advice, will keep that in mind. Thanks for the response.

 

[deleted126335]

Who cares...

If you want to go into academia it may make a difference. If that's your passion, try to find programs with strong research tracks that can help boost your CV early on.

If you plan to go into private practice, however, it doesn't matter. It's easier to find a job geographically closer to where you trained because of networking, so keep that in mind. The most important thing you can do is find a place where you'll be happy; what makes you happy, though, depends on your priorities.

A program doesn't make you a strong anesthesiologist. That's up to you.

Not necessarily true. I went to a name brand program. Relocated to a first rate job in another part of the country where I had no contacts. The names on my CV got my foot in the door. Maybe I would have just been another name on the pile...maybe not.


"A program doesn't make you a strong anesthesiologist..." Some of us are very self driven and for them your statement is true. But In my case, and I suspect many others, being surrounded my smart ambitious people makes you better by raising the bar.

 

[Umyo]

A program doesn't make you a strong anesthesiologist. That's up to you.

Wise words you speak.

Many people fail to understand this.

 

[foshizzo]

If I could do it over again and had the grades and test scores to go wherever I wanted, I'd choose either Duke or Stanford because I think they offer the best combination of clinical excellence, innovative teaching, and a strong national reputation.

If you want more objective rankings, you might consider 2012 NIH funding as a surrogate for prestige and excellence in research:

1 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO $7,475,762
2 WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY $6,672,299
3 JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY $6,665,755
4 STANFORD UNIVERSITY $6,427,350
5 UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON $6,407,875
6 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA LOS ANGELES $4,839,993
7 DUKE UNIVERSITY $4,418,680
8 COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY HEALTH SCIENCES $4,364,979
9 UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH AT PITTSBURGH $4,280,994
10 MEDICAL COLLEGE OF WISCONSIN $4,134,606
11 UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AT ANN ARBOR $3,997,940
12 VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY $3,393,818
13 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN DIEGO $3,378,067
14 YALE UNIVERSITY $2,734,232
15 UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO $2,600,955
16 UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO DENVER $2,435,362
17 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA DAVIS $2,426,386
18 UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM $2,173,428
19 WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY HEALTH SCIENCES $2,117,717
20 OREGON HEALTH AND SCIENCE UNIVERSITY $2,102,043
21 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA IRVINE $1,970,802
22 UNIVERSITY OF IOWA $1,785,963
23 UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND BALTIMORE $1,652,203
24 WEILL MEDICAL COLLEGE OF CORNELL UNIV $1,486,946
25 UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA $1,453,897
26 UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI $1,380,711
27 UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA $1,330,648
28 UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER $1,301,422
29 BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE $1,114,640
30 UNIVERSITY OF ARKANSAS MED SCIS LTL ROCK $1,087,525
31 UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CHARLOTTESVILLE $960,009
32 UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE $944,568
33 UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN MADISON $913,567
34 UNIVERSITY OF UTAH $817,914
35 UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA CHAPEL HILL $753,480
36 UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS AT CHICAGO $725,144
37 OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY $712,938
38 UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS MEDICAL BR GALVESTON $432,113
39 NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY AT CHICAGO $429,872
40 STATE UNIVERSITY NEW YORK STONY BROOK $399,698
41 ALBERT EINSTEIN COL OF MED YESHIVA UNIV $375,750
42 EMORY UNIVERSITY $332,281
43 TEXAS TECH UNIVERSITY HEALTH SCIS CENTER $318,726
44 PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIV HERSHEY MED CTR $260,650
45 NEW YORK UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE $162,000
46 CLEVELAND CLINIC LERNER COL/MED-CWRU $154,269
47 STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK AT BUFFALO $126,727
48 MOUNT SINAI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE $84,750
49 HARVARD UNIVERSITY (MEDICAL SCHOOL) $29,486

 

[rakotomazoto]

Keep in mind that most residents end up practicing in the geographic vicinity of their program. Although you can certainly train anywhere and then apply anywhere for your first job, if you have a geographic preference for where you finally end up, that is something to consider. Plus, ditto to what has already been said on here about "top programs". Going to a "top program" is not important to everybody, may or may not make a difference, and besides there is no universal criteria since different people are looking for different things.

My "top programs" are partially based on the weather and what the hospital food is like. I don't really care how much NIH money the department is squeezing out of the government: I am more concerned about the tater tots, lol. But then again, from a strict grades/numbers perspective, I'm not "top program" material anyways, so I guess I am shopping in a different market altogether.

 

[IlDestriero]

Not necessarily true. I went to a name brand program. Relocated to a first rate job in another part of the country where I had no contacts. The names on my CV got my foot in the door. Maybe I would have just been another name on the pile...maybe not.


"A program doesn't make you a strong anesthesiologist..." Some of us are very self driven and for them your statement is true. But In my case, and I suspect many others, being surrounded my smart ambitious people makes you better by raising the bar.

Exactly. Big name programs are good for abundant research opportunities and good fellowship placement as well which may or may not be something you're interested in a couple years from now. Fellowships are not a given anymore. The big programs also tend to have extensive alumni networking.

 

[cchoukal]

While the NIH list is AN objective measure of program quality, I think a lot of us would agree it probably correlates very little with the actual quality of the training you'll receive. Unless, of course, your goal is to be mentored toward a career as an independent scientist, in which case that ranking is of supreme importance.

I like to think of these decisions in term of very clear outcomes. Figure out what it is that you want (I mean what you REALLY want, deep down to your core; always a challenge) and then figure out which programs send people off to do whatever those things are.

Want a cardiac fellowship at the Brigham? Find out which programs routinely send their residents to the Brigham's cardiac fellowship, and apply there. Want that cush job at Valley in Phoenix? Figure out which programs' graduates get jobs there, and apply to those programs.

Quality is really hard to measure, and remember that the vast majority of people giving you advice or comparative data have only trained at one or two places. Any one person's ability to give you really meaningful comparisons of multiple programs is likely based on hearsay.

 

[deleted9493]

The most important consideration in my mind is location. If you're miserable out of the hospital, you're going to be less likely to excel in training. Second is the match between you and the department. Third is prestige.

So find programs that you have reason to believe you would be happy in--because of friends/family/out-of-hospital activity options/whatever personal factors come to mind and try to interview at those. When you do, be honest with yourself about the interview experience (e.g. "they seemed a bit uptight"...or "I don't know if my education here would be strong--it seems too informal" etc). If you have the privilege then of ranking good programs that you think you would be happy in based on those two factors, let reputation sway you.

I think it's backwards though to start with a name and leave everything else as secondary consideration...and maybe the only consideration. If you're competitive, you're the one in the driver's seat and have worked too hard to be miserable for 4 years.

 

[anbuitachi]

If I could do it over again and had the grades and test scores to go wherever I wanted, I'd choose either Duke or Stanford because I think they offer the best combination of clinical excellence, innovative teaching, and a strong national reputation.

If you want more objective rankings, you might consider 2012 NIH funding as a surrogate for prestige and excellence in research:

1 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO $7,475,762
2 WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY $6,672,299
3 JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY $6,665,755
4 STANFORD UNIVERSITY $6,427,350
5 UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON $6,407,875
6 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA LOS ANGELES $4,839,993
7 DUKE UNIVERSITY $4,418,680
8 COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY HEALTH SCIENCES $4,364,979
9 UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH AT PITTSBURGH $4,280,994
10 MEDICAL COLLEGE OF WISCONSIN $4,134,606
11 UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AT ANN ARBOR $3,997,940
12 VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY $3,393,818
13 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN DIEGO $3,378,067
14 YALE UNIVERSITY $2,734,232
15 UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO $2,600,955
16 UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO DENVER $2,435,362
17 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA DAVIS $2,426,386
18 UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM $2,173,428
19 WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY HEALTH SCIENCES $2,117,717
20 OREGON HEALTH AND SCIENCE UNIVERSITY $2,102,043
21 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA IRVINE $1,970,802
22 UNIVERSITY OF IOWA $1,785,963
23 UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND BALTIMORE $1,652,203
24 WEILL MEDICAL COLLEGE OF CORNELL UNIV $1,486,946
25 UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA $1,453,897
26 UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI $1,380,711
27 UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA $1,330,648
28 UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER $1,301,422
29 BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE $1,114,640
30 UNIVERSITY OF ARKANSAS MED SCIS LTL ROCK $1,087,525
31 UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CHARLOTTESVILLE $960,009
32 UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE $944,568
33 UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN MADISON $913,567
34 UNIVERSITY OF UTAH $817,914
35 UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA CHAPEL HILL $753,480
36 UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS AT CHICAGO $725,144
37 OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY $712,938
38 UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS MEDICAL BR GALVESTON $432,113
39 NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY AT CHICAGO $429,872
40 STATE UNIVERSITY NEW YORK STONY BROOK $399,698
41 ALBERT EINSTEIN COL OF MED YESHIVA UNIV $375,750
42 EMORY UNIVERSITY $332,281
43 TEXAS TECH UNIVERSITY HEALTH SCIS CENTER $318,726
44 PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIV HERSHEY MED CTR $260,650
45 NEW YORK UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE $162,000
46 CLEVELAND CLINIC LERNER COL/MED-CWRU $154,269
47 STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK AT BUFFALO $126,727
48 MOUNT SINAI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE $84,750
49 HARVARD UNIVERSITY (MEDICAL SCHOOL) $29,486

Harvard is so low.. 29k NIH funding for anesthesia? That's like nothing..

 

[BigMAC3]

Just chiming in from my experience last year -- don't go by US News or NIH funding, not all "top hospitals" have great anesthesia programs. I interviewed at >20 programs, mostly northeast. Here were my favorites:

Northeast: BIDMC, NYU, Columbia, UVM (small, but I thought they were a hidden gem)
Midwest: Northwestern
South: Emory
West Coast: Oregon, UCSF

 

[IlDestriero]

Harvard is so low.. 29k NIH funding for anesthesia? That's like nothing..

The reason these numbers can be misleading is because of how they're accounted. "Harvard" is many programs at many separate hospitals, BUT they're not added together on the funding list even though they're all HMS faculty. If you look at the medical school funding, it won't include Mass General or Boston Children's, etc. Other places are only one big hospital, so they appear better funded, even though they're not. You would have to look them up separately and add them up. The Harvard listed above, which I'm guessing is anesthesia medical school funding, probably is referring to some anesthesia related basic science research from a PhD, completely ignoring the millions in hospital based faculty research being accounted elsewhere.

 

[cchoukal]

The reason these numbers can be misleading is because of how they're accounted. "Harvard" is many programs at many separate hospitals, BUT they're not added together on the funding list even though they're all HMS faculty. If you look at the medical school funding, it won't include Mass General or Boston Children's, etc. Other places are only one big hospital, so they appear better funded, even though they're not. You would have to look them up separately and add them up. The Harvard listed above, which I'm guessing is anesthesia medical school funding, probably is referring to some anesthesia related basic science research from a PhD, completely ignoring the millions in hospital based faculty research being accounted elsewhere.

Perhaps true, but in this RANKED list, MGH, BID, and BWH are not listed either, suggesting that each of their individual departments gets even less than $29K/year. Which I find surprising. Anyway, I think we probably all agree that this list is still not a great way to select programs for clinical training.

 

[narcusprince]

If you base your decision on research ccf produces roughly 1/3 the literature in anesthesia journals. Under Daniel Sessler. The top programs are a wash because just because it has name recognition doesnt mean its ths best for you.

 

[BLADEMDA]

This is all B.S. find a program with solid clinical teaching, good case exposure and faculty with experts in all sub specialties. Any top 50 residency program will offer you the opportunity to be a great Anesthesiologist provided you are willing to put forth the time and effort.

 

[BLADEMDA]

If I could do it over again and had the grades and test scores to go wherever I wanted, I'd choose either Duke or Stanford because I think they offer the best combination of clinical excellence, innovative teaching, and a strong national reputation.

If you want more objective rankings, you might consider 2012 NIH funding as a surrogate for prestige and excellence in research:

1 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO $7,475,762
2 WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY $6,672,299
3 JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY $6,665,755
4 STANFORD UNIVERSITY $6,427,350
5 UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON $6,407,875
6 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA LOS ANGELES $4,839,993
7 DUKE UNIVERSITY $4,418,680
8 COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY HEALTH SCIENCES $4,364,979
9 UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH AT PITTSBURGH $4,280,994
10 MEDICAL COLLEGE OF WISCONSIN $4,134,606
11 UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AT ANN ARBOR $3,997,940
12 VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY $3,393,818
13 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN DIEGO $3,378,067
14 YALE UNIVERSITY $2,734,232
15 UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO $2,600,955
16 UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO DENVER $2,435,362
17 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA DAVIS $2,426,386
18 UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM $2,173,428
19 WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY HEALTH SCIENCES $2,117,717
20 OREGON HEALTH AND SCIENCE UNIVERSITY $2,102,043
21 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA IRVINE $1,970,802
22 UNIVERSITY OF IOWA $1,785,963
23 UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND BALTIMORE $1,652,203
24 WEILL MEDICAL COLLEGE OF CORNELL UNIV $1,486,946
25 UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA $1,453,897
26 UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI $1,380,711
27 UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA $1,330,648
28 UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER $1,301,422
29 BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE $1,114,640
30 UNIVERSITY OF ARKANSAS MED SCIS LTL ROCK $1,087,525
31 UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CHARLOTTESVILLE $960,009
32 UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE $944,568
33 UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN MADISON $913,567
34 UNIVERSITY OF UTAH $817,914
35 UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA CHAPEL HILL $753,480
36 UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS AT CHICAGO $725,144
37 OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY $712,938
38 UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS MEDICAL BR GALVESTON $432,113
39 NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY AT CHICAGO $429,872
40 STATE UNIVERSITY NEW YORK STONY BROOK $399,698
41 ALBERT EINSTEIN COL OF MED YESHIVA UNIV $375,750
42 EMORY UNIVERSITY $332,281
43 TEXAS TECH UNIVERSITY HEALTH SCIS CENTER $318,726
44 PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIV HERSHEY MED CTR $260,650
45 NEW YORK UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE $162,000
46 CLEVELAND CLINIC LERNER COL/MED-CWRU $154,269
47 STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK AT BUFFALO $126,727
48 MOUNT SINAI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE $84,750
49 HARVARD UNIVERSITY (MEDICAL SCHOOL) $29,486

Good list. I suspect any of these programs are more than adequate to mould a motivated, intelligent resident into a competent Anesthesiologist.

 

[deleted9493]

A few seconds on Google:

MGH: ~11 million in NIH funding in 2012

In 2013 (from NIH website),
MGH: 250 million in NIH funding as an institution
BWH: 250 million
BID: 100 million

I don't know what the department-specific funding is from NIH for each of these institutions but I have little reason to doubt that it's not still in proportion to what I found for MGH's anesthesiology department in 2012.

 

[foshizzo]

The Harvard-affiliated hospital anesthesiology departments have some of the most productive research divisions in the country, with millions in NIH funding. From their websites:

MGH:
The Department of Anesthesia and Critical Care is strongly committed to research. Staff members currently hold 43 different NIH grants. Our non-federal support is also extraordinary with 18 current foundation awards and six current industry awards. Research expenditures in the last year were over $19 million. We have four current K08 recipients and there have been 15 suchrecipients over the last fifteen years.

BWH:
In 2012 research in the Anesthesiology Department was supported by 37 NIH grants and sub-contracts, of which 27 were individual investigator (R-01)grants, 3 were Program Project Grants and 1 was a P50 Center Grant and 6 sub contracts. In addition, there were 27 Sponsored Research Projects(private industry), many of the latter being clinical trials.

 

[BLADEMDA]

The Harvard-affiliated hospital anesthesiology departments have some of the most productive research divisions in the country, with millions in NIH funding. From their websites:

MGH:
The Department of Anesthesia and Critical Care is strongly committed to research. Staff members currently hold 43 different NIH grants. Our non-federal support is also extraordinary with 18 current foundation awards and six current industry awards. Research expenditures in the last year were over $19 million. We have four current K08 recipients and there have been 15 suchrecipients over the last fifteen years.

BWH:
In 2012 research in the Anesthesiology Department was supported by 37 NIH grants and sub-contracts, of which 27 were individual investigator (R-01)grants, 3 were Program Project Grants and 1 was a P50 Center Grant and 6 sub contracts. In addition, there were 27 Sponsored Research Projects(private industry), many of the latter being clinical trials.

Both are excellent programs for Anesthesiology.

 

[norwood]

Favorite quote I heard while interviewing for residencies back in the day:

"We're one of the 20 programs who will tell you we're in the top 10"

I think the tendency to remain in the same region as your residency isn't just a networking thing. Anesthesia residency is 4 years - you make a lot of connections to an area. Your friends are there, perhaps you've bought a condo or a townhouse, perhaps you've started a relationship with someone in that area who doesn't want to move...

If you want to do research or do a fellowship, big names help. And it's fair to note that you probably don't know for sure as an MS4 *whether* you will want to do one of those things, even if you're leaning in one direction or another about them right now. But at the same time, a highly-ranked program can be surprisingly weak in one area or another, and the lack of a big name doesn't mean at all that a program will fail to make you a competent, safe anesthesiologist.

All this to say: don't underestimate the value of your own perceptions in looking for a program that's right for you.

 

[hrmm]

Asking your PD is probably a good way to get an idea of the top programs. And when I say top, I don't mean "top program because it's sunny," or "top program because the city has good food," etc. We're talking about the best, powerhouse, rockstar, producing top anesthesiologists that are in the forefront of the field, type of top programs. If you look at the CV's of your PD's and directors, you'll likely see that they trained at one of these institutions. For example, MGH and UCSF have a huge reach throughout the country and a solid track record in placing chiefs/chairs. I think the majority of PD's would, for the most part, come to a consensus on these programs.

I borrowed this list from another thread with some modifications. I think most PD's would agree that the top programs are:

===================================================================

Best of the best: MGH, Hopkins, UCSF

Elite but not on the level of the 3 above: Columbia, Penn, Stanford, Duke, BWH, Michigan, Alabama, Mayo

Excellent programs worth mentioning but arguable about inclusion/exclusion: BID, Cornell, UWash, Dartmouth, MCW, Sinai, UChicago, UCLA, UCSD, UColorado, UPMC, Yale, WashU, Northwestern, and probably a few more ...

===================================================================


That being said, what everyone has been saying in this thread is dead on. It doesn't matter if you trained at a "top program" if you (and your SO/spouse/family) aren't happy. And in the end, it's really what you make of it. You can train at MGH and be mediocre throughout your entire residency/career. Or you can train in Podunk Hospital and be an allstar. It's up to you. But I guess if you could choose and all the stars were aligned in your favor, it would be best to be an allstar from a top program.

 

[Lurch]

Asking your PD is probably a good way to get an idea of the top programs. And when I say top, I don't mean "top program because it's sunny," or "top program because the city has good food," etc. We're talking about the best, powerhouse, rockstar, producing top anesthesiologists that are in the forefront of the field, type of top programs. If you look at the CV's of your PD's and directors, you'll likely see that they trained at one of these institutions. For example, MGH and UCSF have a huge reach throughout the country and a solid track record in placing chiefs/chairs. I think the majority of PD's would, for the most part, come to a consensus on these programs.

I borrowed this list from another thread with some modifications. I think most PD's would agree that the top programs are:

===================================================================

Best of the best: MGH, Hopkins, UCSF

Elite but not on the level of the 3 above: Columbia, Penn, Stanford, Duke, BWH, Michigan, Alabama, Mayo

Excellent programs worth mentioning but arguable about inclusion/exclusion: BID, Cornell, UWash, Dartmouth, MCW, Sinai, UChicago, UCLA, UCSD, UColorado, UPMC, Yale, WashU, Northwestern, and probably a few more ...

===================================================================


That being said, what everyone has been saying in this thread is dead on. It doesn't matter if you trained at a "top program" if you (and your SO/spouse/family) aren't happy. And in the end, it's really what you make of it. You can train at MGH and be mediocre throughout your entire residency/career. Or you can train in Podunk Hospital and be an allstar. It's up to you. But I guess if you could choose and all the stars were aligned in your favor, it would be best to be an allstar from a top program.

.....says one person. As has already been said, generating lists such as these is a foolish and inherently biased exercise however tempting it is to construct one. Good luck to medical students entering the Match this year.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Asking your PD is probably a good way to get an idea of the top programs. And when I say top, I don't mean "top program because it's sunny," or "top program because the city has good food," etc. We're talking about the best, powerhouse, rockstar, producing top anesthesiologists that are in the forefront of the field, type of top programs. If you look at the CV's of your PD's and directors, you'll likely see that they trained at one of these institutions. For example, MGH and UCSF have a huge reach throughout the country and a solid track record in placing chiefs/chairs. I think the majority of PD's would, for the most part, come to a consensus on these programs.

I borrowed this list from another thread with some modifications. I think most PD's would agree that the top programs are:

===================================================================

Best of the best: MGH, Hopkins, UCSF

Elite but not on the level of the 3 above: Columbia, Penn, Stanford, Duke, BWH, Michigan, Alabama, Mayo

Excellent programs worth mentioning but arguable about inclusion/exclusion: BID, Cornell, UWash, Dartmouth, MCW, Sinai, UChicago, UCLA, UCSD, UColorado, UPMC, Yale, WashU, Northwestern, and probably a few more ...

===================================================================


That being said, what everyone has been saying in this thread is dead on. It doesn't matter if you trained at a "top program" if you (and your SO/spouse/family) aren't happy. And in the end, it's really what you make of it. You can train at MGH and be mediocre throughout your entire residency/career. Or you can train in Podunk Hospital and be an allstar. It's up to you. But I guess if you could choose and all the stars were aligned in your favor, it would be best to be an allstar from a top program.

Truly B.S. "best of the best" measured by whom? Stanford, Duke, Penn, etc not as good as UCSF? again, by what yardstick or grading criteria?

The fact remains there are 20 plus outstanding Residency programs out there that will make you a superstar (without a doubt provided you put in some effort). I bet there are 30 other programs where additional effort and hard work by the Resident results in superstar status.

The interview isn't just about the program checking you out for a rank but also about you deciding if that program is a good fit. For some students location, attitude of the faculty, exposure to advanced cases usually reserved only for fellows, etc will be the deciding factors for ranking that program number 1.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Which of the top 10-20 programs are DO friendly? Assuming that DO scores the usual STEP1 score for that program which ones are likely to rank that DO highly?

 

[mustang1]

Good question. I am a DO with research and great step scores but know that Stanford and Duke will likely not give my application much of a glance. Hopkins, some of the Harvard programs and Mayo have long track history of simply taking the best applicant and have some DOs among their ranks. Would love to hear of anyone's experiences as I am applying this year. Best of luck to everyone!

 

[asdfjkl1]

Blade as usual summed it up. Apply to the programs that you think have the name or Nutz your looking for and go interview Talk to the residents. What do you want in a top program? If you hear " I did a lung tranny a heart tranny and a take back thoracic cuz I didnt get the 3 cabg's and all the VATS that were still going on at 1 am then go to a place that does that ( Duke?) If you cringe at crna's then go check out places that don't have em (Stanford Penn?). But if you hate butt cases posted at 2 am ( thats a crna case fer sure wher I'm at) than maybe Stanford isn't it. Go interview. Ask questions. Hows the bbq around here, do we get free food, where do you live, im single so where the chicks at,, im married and like lame things is there family stuff around here. Be polite , nice, don't wear a weird suite, and act interested and if everything fits, you can rank them high. You are interviewing them as much as they are you. I assume your application has all the pieces you are thinking will get you interviews at these places.

 

[BobBarker]

Which of the top 10-20 programs are DO friendly? Assuming that DO scores the usual STEP1 score for that program which ones are likely to rank that DO highly?

I would think Vandy, UAB, UTSW, Colorado are a great start at this list.

 

[okayplayer]

Uw

 

[RT2MD]

Blade as usual summed it up. Apply to the programs that you think have the name or Nutz your looking for and go interview Talk to the residents. What do you want in a top program? If you hear " I did a lung tranny a heart tranny and a take back thoracic cuz I didnt get the 3 cabg's and all the VATS that were still going on at 1 am then go to a place that does that ( Duke?) If you cringe at crna's then go check out places that don't have em (Stanford Penn?). But if you hate butt cases posted at 2 am ( thats a crna case fer sure wher I'm at) than maybe Stanford isn't it. Go interview. Ask questions. Hows the bbq around here, do we get free food, where do you live, im single so where the chicks at,, im married and like lame things is there family stuff around here. Be polite , nice, don't wear a weird suite, and act interested and if everything fits, you can rank them high. You are interviewing them as much as they are you. I assume your application has all the pieces you are thinking will get you interviews at these places.

Hahahahaha!!!! That's pretty funny.... and, as an old married guy with kids, accurate I suppose.