Top 5's

[Primate]

OK people, flex your opinion muscles (??). When sitting on my duff, I often come up with silly ideas/questions (like, "I wonder what it'd be like to spend a decade being a grad student?" or, "I wonder how many olives I can hold in my mouth and still clearly sing Anchors Aweigh?" - don't ask).

(AHEM)

Anyway, started thinking about the below and wanted to get your opinions. Besides, what else do you have to do but think about pathology? Feel free to comment on only selected categories. What do you think are the top 5 programs (list fewer if you think that there are only that many that qualify for a given heading) in each of the following categories:

AP:
1
2
3
4
5

CP
1
2
3
4
5

AP/CP
1
2
3
4
5

Research Focused Programs:
1
2
3
4
5

Community/Private Practice Focused Programs:
1
2
3
4
5

Best Lifestyle (hours, mainly):
1
2
3
4
5

Worst Lifestyle (ditto):
1
2
3
4
5

Best location:
1
2
3
4
5

Best Corndogs:
1
2
3
4
5

Cheers,
P

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[yaah]

I don't think I can actually give you my "top 5" in anything, because I haven't experienced all of them. All I know is by reputation and hearsay. I have only directly experienced 2 programs, soon to be a third. Have interviewed at about 10 others so I know a bit about them.

Best AP programs I saw: Brigham, Chicago, MGH, Michigan, UPenn, Hopkins.

Research focus: Brigham, Penn, Chicago, Hopkins

Best "sleeper" programs: Vermont, Dartmouth, Iowa, Utah

CP I have no idea. Although you would be hard pressed to compete with the facilities that Utah has.

Locations: Michigan, Iowa, Utah, Dartmouth, Vermont (IMHO).

Lots of places give good training and preparation for community practice. Too many to list.

Lifestyle is tough to quantify. All I know is that there seems to be 2 levels of lifestyle: Boston programs and everyone else. Some say MGH has much worse hours than Brigham and BIDMC. Some say Brigham residents have worse hours.

Summary: here's my rank list. I ranked these programs by which I thought to be the best, obviously. Thus, this is my top 10
1) Michigan
2) the MGH
3) Johns Hopkins
4) Dartmouth
5) Iowa
6) UVM
7) Utah
8) U Chi
9) Northwestern
10) UMass



I hate corndogs. Yucky.

I want wherever I go to have good sandwiches and subs. Thus, Ann Arbor has Zingerman's, which is quite possibly the most phenomenal sandwich shop in the history of the world.

 

[HotSteamingTurd]

Hey Yaah,

I just joined the forum today and read some of your posts as I was navigating through a couple of the discussions ...thanks for your many insights into applying for path residencies. From reading your post, am I correct in thinking that you matched at Michigan? The only reason I ask is that I just happen to be a student at Michigan and know that the program here is very strong. You certainly are right about Zingermann's...totally kickass sandwiches there...that store has made me poor.

I just had a quick question for you. Right now I am thinking about the Boston programs like MGH and Brigham. A little about my background, I'm a MD/PhD student here and am interested in a research-oriented pathology program. I think I saw someone say that Brigham is better than MGH in that regard. I was wondering if you could elaborate more on why Brigham is good for the research-oriented path applicants.

Thanks and congrats on matching!

 

[yaah]

Well, a lot of programs will help you out with being a research oriented type person. Truthfully, especially for your first couple of years, there is a lot of service time and there isn't time for a lot of significant research at any program, including Brigham.

But Brigham does have a significant research bent to it. Not to say they don't train people to function as practicing pathologists, because they do, but there is an atmosphere there that research will be expected. There are a lot of pathologists, particularly community-based ones, who think that the training at brigham and other research heavy institutions does not prepare one at all for the private sector (to the point that you may have to get extra training at other institutions), so you had better be sure about doing academic work. MGH, although I am not an expert at it, seems to have more expectations out of its residents in regards to performing the work of the department. The work load is heavier and you spend more time learning diagnostics. But I came very close to choosing to go to MGH because that, to me, was a real pathology residency training program. Nuts and bolts are stressed, and you branch out from there with lots of encouragement and support.

In truth, though, I hear a lot about the benefits of being at a big name place like Brigham or JHU or UPenn if you are a research oriented individual, but there are a lot of places that will provide you with support if you want to do research. Make sure you visit lots of places, ask lots of questions, and decide for yourself which place is best for you. Michigan turned out to be best for me and I ranked it #1 even though other places out there put a lot of heat on to try to get me to come. It was a combination of location, facilities, personnel that got me there. Brigham was a nice place but it didn't fit my personality very well, nor did it fit the ideas about what I want out of a residency program.

As an MD/PHD you may have a specific idea in mind about your research future, and thus some programs may be better fits. The good thing about places like Brigham is that there are experts in so many areas that you are likely to be able to find someone with similar interests. I suggest you read through some of the older messages in this forum, there are a few opinions out there.

Hotsteamingturd? Clever name, I can't imagine what significance it might have...

 

[HotSteamingTurd]

Thanks for the info yaah. The considerations and thoughts you pose I agree with. Obviously, I should go to a residency program where I will flourish intellectually and be satisfied personally. Which is the reason I came to U of Michigan for my MD/PhD training.

One of the reasons I have been intently focused on the MGH and Brigham programs is that my PhD thesis advisor strongly advocates training in Boston to maximize one's chances of securing strong professional connections and to strengthen one's "track record." The thing is, and you've alluded to this, that I haven't interviewed at any programs. Who knows...I could go to Brigham and MGH and totally find that those places are not the places for me. Finally, since I go to school here, I already know how much of a kickass path program Michigan has so I really don't have to research into that too much further Anyways...time, further reflection, and visiting/interviewing will tell.

As for my screenname, it's just a joke name I came up with when I played online computer games. Allies and foes both found the name funny. Unfortunately when residency begins, that life will come to an end. Damn I miss the PhD phase!

 

[Primate]

Oh, for a quick 6 hours of death-match on Unreal, a workout, some more death-match, perhaps a cup of French roast (Freedom roast?) and then back home for a nap.

Yes, I too pine for the heady (PhD) days of yore.

On the other hand, we had our 3rd kid this morning, so I don't think there'd be alot of Unreal in my immediate future anyway.

How about:

Top five:

Screen names:
1
2
3
4
5

Beaches:
1
2
3
4
5

Uses for free time:
1
2
3
4
5


P

 

[joedogma]

Congrats primate!

 

[HotSteamingTurd]

I second the congrats Primate!

 

[yaah]

Congratulations on the new addition. Do you have a top 5 list of baby names?

I don't have a list of top 5 beaches. I hate beaches.

Top 5 symphonies:
1) Beethoven 9
2) Mahler 2
3) Beethoven 3
4) Dvorak 8
5) Tchaikovsky 5

Top 5 Operas
1) Weber's Freischutz
2) Wagner's Die Meistersinger
3) Verdi's Aida
4) Beethoven's Fidelio
5) Puccini's La Boheme (act I) or Verdi's Traviata. Can't decide.

Top 5 places in the world:
1) Jackson NH
2) Colorado Springs
3) The entire state of Wyoming
4) Copenhagen
5) The Alaskan coast

Bottom 5 places in the world that I have visited
1) Athens (greece)
2) France
3) Texas
4) Los Angeles
5) Philly (sorry)

Top 5 places I want to visit that I have not been to
1) Prague
2) Vienna
3) South Africa
4) Ireland
5) Cairo and Giza with an entourage of bodyguards and automatic weapons

 

[Crepitus Fremitus]

Whenever this issue of the top pathology programs has come up, I've always wanted to contribute, but never had enough available brain-time to give it a proper mull-over.

Well, thanks to a bit of a dip in the death rate around here, and concomitant dearth of autopsies (I guess the interns are finally getting the hang of this medicine thing!), I managed to grab a few moments and do some research. Hope you guys like my list.

Top 5 pathology programs in the US:

1. Penrose-St Francis Healthcare System Program ? Colorado Springs, CO ? 6035 feet

2. University of New Mexico ? Albuquerque, NM ? 5314 feet

3. University of Colorado ? Denver, CO ? 5280 feet

4. University of Utah ? Salt Lake City, UT ? 4390 feet

5. University of Arizona Program ?Tucson, Arizona ? 3355 feet

 

[Primate]

That's a s#h$i@t hot reply. Love it.

P

PS - thanks all for the congrats.

Top 5 names (from our {in-}famous local children's hosp):
1) Pronounced Sheh-theed. Spelled s#h*i$t*h e a d (I guess they never looked at the WRITTEN name after spelling it "fonetically").
2) Placenta (as in the mom overhead the OB say, "Here's the placenta" and thought it was her kid's given name)
3 & 4) Twin girls named: Donwana and Doneeda. Their middle names were Man. Guess Mom didn't care much for dear ol' Dad.
5) Larry.

All of these (except #5 - couldn't remember any of the others I'd seen) are honest to goodness examples of names given to kids about 2 years ago. I find them somewhat humorous, but even more so sad. We went with different names.

Top 5 Fishing Sites (that I've done - wish list is a whole different story):
1) Edge of gulf stream off Stuart for sailfish 15-20 years ago (when they were abundant)
2) Bonefishing on the flats of Andros Island with a 7 wt. fly rod.
3) Fly fishing in Montana. Anywhere in Montana.
4) Trout on the Wissahickon /c a 5 wt. fly rod (only b/c it's WITHIN Philly city limits and there are great trout - surreal for real).
5) Anywhere I can get on the water.

P

 

[Doctor B.]

Top 5 Metal Bands:
1. Metallica
2. Anthrax
3. Pantera
4. Tool
5. Meshuggah

 

[yaah]

Top 5 Yahoo games (games.yahoo.com)

1) Bounce out
2) Text Twist
3) Cribbage
4) Typer Shark
5) Rocket Mania

So addictive. Especially when you have nothing to do except wait for movers to call you...

 

[elkchaser]

Primate- how's this for top 5s:

Top Five Rivers to Fish in Montana:
1) Beaverhead
2) Bighole
3) Blackfoot
4) Madison
5) Bighorn

That is, when there is enough water that dust doesn't collect on your fly (bit of a drought in the Big Sky state).

 

[Brian Pavlovitz]

Top 5 comedies (in no particular order):

1) Blazing Saddles
2) Airplane!
3) 9 to 5
4) The Birdcage
5) To Wong Foo...

PS: Congrats, Primate!

 

[HotSteamingTurd]

Yaah, since you're coming to Ann Arbor for your residency, this one's for you.

Top 5 bars in Ann Arbor:
(1) Dominicks
(2) Conor O'Neills
(3) Ashley's
(4) Scorekeepers
(5) Good Night Gracie's

 

[yaah]

Yaah, since you're coming to Ann Arbor for your residency, this one's for you.

Top 5 bars in Ann Arbor:
(1) Dominicks
(2) Conor O'Neills
(3) Ashley's
(4) Scorekeepers
(5) Good Night Gracie's

Any Boston bars there? Like, places that show the red sox or get NESN? Anything Irish sounding is usually a good bet.

p.s. Brian, 9-5?!?!?!?

I agree Blazing Saddles though. Someone better go back and get a whole @#$@load of dimes!

 

[Primate]

Primate- how's this for top 5s:

Top Five Rivers to Fish in Montana:
1) Beaverhead
2) Bighole
3) Blackfoot
4) Madison
5) Bighorn

That is, when there is enough water that dust doesn't collect on your fly (bit of a drought in the Big Sky state).

Last time we were in Montana fishing was ~4 years ago, and there were three gallons of water in the state. Total. Fishing was non-existent that trip, although we (or just "I") went every day. Montana is even one of the top places to fish when there are no fish.

As for Boston bars, they happen to all be in Boston.

By the way, Doc B, what ties have ye with the MacManus clan?

P

 

[HotSteamingTurd]

Conor O'Neills is an Irish pub...still not quite a boston bar.

 

[Brian Pavlovitz]

p.s. Brian, 9-5?!?!?!?

I agree Blazing Saddles though. Someone better go back and get a whole @#$@load of dimes!

I just love Lily Tomlin! And the whole stealing the "wrong" body from the hospital, while then returning it pretending to be a doctor!

volunteer: "oh, you're a doctor..."

tomlin (looking at her inscribed lab coat): "I'm a doctor! So, why the hell am I talking to you? Piss off!"

Can I say that without getting in trouble? We'll find out...

 

[yaah]

Top 5 Ireland Experiences (especially for yaah)
1)Genuine Guinness, delivered in the traditional sloooow fashion. I know you favor vodka with Beethoven, but after a few pints, you'll be jigging w/ everyone else in Dingle. Smithwick's isn't bad either.
2)Fungie the Dolphin swim: Ain't no captive bathtub mammal chained to an anchor. Fungie roams freely in a bay in Galway. You need a wetsuit, a sense of adventure and a captain as tenacious as Ahab.
3)Aran Islands via the ferry. The miles of stone fences themselves are worth the trip. Any Sunday morning pub skirmishes you might witness, are merely 'local color'.
4)Lyrical beautiful language. FORK this!!FORK that! Women normally repulsed by vulgarity, would winsomely smile at the rogues w/ the brogue.
5)We stayed at a brothel, unknowingly. Too damn jet-lagged to know, or care.

Top 5 favorite trips:
1)Switzerland
2)Norway
3)Napali Coast, Hawaii
4)Dingle Peninsula, Ireland
5)Cairns, Australia

Thanks for the Irish advice. My Irish heritage (it's only 1/4, but I think that's enough) keeps screaming at me to journey to the motherland. Perhaps if I go I can get a connecting flight through Rejkjavik, where I have also wanted to go ever since I attained Detective level on Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego.

My 1/2 Polish heritage has been somewhat assuaged for awhile after I went to Gdansk (Although ever since 9/1/39 most people remember it as Danzig) and thought it was wonderful. As for my other 1/4, Quebecois. Been there, done that, let's just say I have been to 3 different francophone countries (France, Monaco, Quebec) and 5 minutes in each would have been enough. The only saving grace is that I can understand the language somewhat, so I know when they are making fun of me. I can't really respond though because my spoken French has vanished.

Top 5 favorite movies
1) Shawshank Redemption
2) Silence of the Lambs
3) Doctor Zhivago
4) River Runs Through it
5) Return of the King

 

[Doctor B.]

By the way, Doc B, what ties have ye with the MacManus clan?

None, really. I recently watched the Boondock Saints and loved it.

 

[Primate]

Top Five careers outside medicine:
1) Heir
2) USMC F-18 pilot
3) Navy F-18 pilot
4) ANG A-10 pilot (while being a pathologist as a day job, of course )
5) Host of a TV show about doing all the things you've ever wanted to (that can be aired on TV).

 

[Molly Maquire]

Top 1970's porn stars:

1. John C. Holmes (a.k.a. "Johnny Wad")

2. Marilyn Chambers

3. Harry Reams

4. Ron Jeremy

5. Linda Lovelace

 

[Doctor B.]

Those are great, Crepitus! I'm 1/4 Aussie but have never been to the homeland. If I ever go, I'll refer back to this post. Of course, what are the chances of me getting to Australia before those phrases are passe? Buckley's to none, mate!

 

[desmangt]

In response to advice about programs, my graduating medical school class had 7 students go into Path. This is my summary of the reviews I've received about the programs they interviewed at.

Research Focused Programs:
1 Brigham
2 U Penn

CP
1 Utah
2 U of Minnesota
3 U Penn
4 UCSF (CP strong here)

AP:
1 Mt. Sinai (program has the largest volume in the country)
2 Hopkins
3 Columbia
4 MGH (2nd in the country for specimen volume)
5 Cleveland Clinic
6 Mayo (their program is a bit unconventional but extremely strong)



Community/Private Practice Focused Programs:
1 MUSC (this is supposed to be a very good program for private practice)
2 U of New Mexico
3 U of South Florida
4 U of Cincinnati


Best Lifestyle:
1 Cedar Sinai
2 UCLA
3 U of Hawaii


Worst Lifestyle (but great training):
1 Hopkins (My buddy loved the program, but thought there is a lot of work)
2 MGH (Same as above)

Best location:
1 Cornell (If you like the Upper East Side)
2 Mt. Sinai (If you like the UES and Central Park)
3 U of Hawaii (Come on, it's Hawaii)
4 UCSD (Southern California, Umm, Hello!)

Sleeper programs that don't get much press in here:
1 U of Cincinnati (A VERY famous Pathologist is the dept. chair and she is very resident education minded)
2 Albert Einstein in Bronx (there are a lot of "old school" big names here. Dr. Koss "Father of Cytopathology" just retired from there last year. Pretty impressive!)

 

[yaah]

I don't agree with a lot of your lists but thanks for posting!

One caveat: "Best program" doesn't generally correlate with volume. Sometimes, having lots of volume can be detrimental, at least in part, to residency training. While it may sounds nice, on the surface, to do your CP training at a national reference lab that doesn't really mean much for training. A lot of the esoteric and random tests may be completely automated.

Same with AP volume. At some places, most of the volume comes from thousands of uneducational specimens. At others, you see more large and strange cases. U Chicago, from what I remember during my interviews, doesn't have the largest specimen volume but has a lot of variety. And having lots of PAs is nice, I agree, but I do think every path resident needs to have some "scut" time. It's not quite like surgery where scut might be tracking down an xray. Path scut can be grossing in biopsies, learning about lab supplies, etc, which is VERY important to know and helps out later on. After a couple of weeks of it though, bring on the PAs!

BTW, pathology training in NYC has its supporters and its detractors. For every post like this that favors NYC programs, there is another list that says to avoid NYC programs for path training. Take it for what it's worth. My suggestions, as always, do your own research. If someone recommends a program highly, that's great, you might want to look at it yourself (but trust your own opinions first!!). If someone hates a program, take it with a grain of salt.

Is MUSC South Carolina? If so I have heard that as well although I have never visited. Missouri is also a good community training program.

Desmangt, the list of your I disagree with the most is actually the location one! But that's just me. I dislike NYC very strongly. And I dislike California almost as much (although northern CA isn't bad).

 

[desmangt]

See, I think volume is very important. Especially for AP, because every specimen is educational. The reason attending pathologists are able to teach their residents is because they have seen the disease over and over, and over again. In addition, no patient's histopathology is identical. Many tumors and diseases are variations of a specific process or cellular pattern. Sometimes the histopathology so unusual it requires the opinion of several pathologists to establish the diagnosis of a very common disease. Large volume, most importantly, adds confidence to your ability to diagnose. After finishing residency, many pathology residents are not sufficiently trained to go straight into practice. That's why most residents pursue fellowships, especially in surgical path. Many residents from large volume programs go straight into practice, with more less time needed for sign out more time for publishing. I do agree that volume is not the only important aspect of a program, but it should definitely be considered. Large volume is not your enemy, large volume and scut (administrative and tech responsibilities) is. Some people pursuing pathology are interested in the lifestyle, which I agree is important. But... all of the training you are ever going to receive is in those 3-4 years of residency. After that... you need to be able to give a diagnosis, because YOU WILL BE a board certified pathologist (that's your job and the responsibility rests on YOUR shoulders). There is a lot of disease out there, and I think big volume is the best way to
master the ability to diagnose it.

In summary, whatever program you pick, you will probably get what you want out of it. Residency is pretty much up to you.

 

[yaah]

You are right about what you say...volume is important! However, after a certain level it becomes overkill. From collected opinions over my interviews and time in pathology, if a program has >20,000 surgical specimens per year that is more than enough for a resident. Programs that have more generally have worked divided up amongst residents anyway. But, for a number less than 20,000 you can't totally be sure you are going to see enough variety.

30k, 40k, doesn't really make much difference. Volume is definitely an important thing to consider when evaluating programs, but it's also kind of like economic theory in a way. If you have too much of it, the utility of each additional specimen beyond a certain level starts to have a negative return.

1 Twinkie: Mmmmm....Twinkie, but I'm still hungry!
2 Twinkies: That was good, a nice snack!
3-4 Twinkies: Wow, that was good, now I'm full and will skip dinner.
5 Twinkies: An extra twinkie for desert! I won't complain!
6 Twinkies: Two extra twinkies for desert? Well, ok, but I might be sick!
8 Twinkies: (rolls around on floor, nauseated after consuming so many>
10 Twinkies: Oh my goodness. No more Twinkies, please! I didn't even finish the last one yet.
12 Twinkies: What part of NO MORE TWINKIES don't you understand?
14 Twinkies: Didn't you hear me? I said NO MORE ****ING TWINKIES!!!
16 Twinkies: I hate ****ing twinkies. I never want to see another ****ing twinkie for the remainder of my natural life. Take your extra twinkies and shove it.
18 Twinkies: (Pulls out scmitar and slaughters twinkie delivery man. Remaining twinkies fed to dog, who promptly chokes and dies from overfeeding.>
20 Twinkies: You don't even want to know.

Thus, my "too many twinkies" analogy to the surgical path specimen volume question.

You are right though, as I said. You need to have enough volume in the program to be able to be qualified enough and experienced enough. Just, at some point it becomes like twinkies. Lots of people do surg path fellowships not necessarily because they haven't seen enough cases or even because they don't feel confident. I'm sure a lot do, but at the same time a lot of people do fellowships even though they may be perfectly competent at signing out. Every new pathologist starting a job is going to have some doubts about their diagnostic skills.

A good question to ask at interviews relates to volume of specimens and how it relates to how many residents there are (like, # of specimens per resident per day, etc). That is an important question, for all of the reasons that the OP stated.

 

[yaah]

Interestingly, the marginal utility of a Chocodile is slightly different from the marginal utility of a twinkie. Chocodiles generally came in packs of one, whereas twinkies came in packs of two. The equation somewhat breaks down but if you use the constant k to correct for the excess product in the form of chocolate in the chocodile, it works out ok. Deriving k, however, is a son of a b****. Take my word for it.


I couldn't help it! It just popped in there!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Actually there are two randomized controlled trials (FATTY and GOODNESS trials) that show that chocodiles and twinkies have similar utility (p=0.46 and p=0.42). Hence the "k" issue is a moot point.

 

[yaah]

Top 5 most annoying things
1) The Ann Arbor "Art Fair" July 22-25, 2004 (several hundred thousand art lovers. Help me Jesus.)
2) The Baltimore Orioles.
3) People Magazine
4) Crappy remakes of 70's-80's songs done with a loud bass.
5) The American Political Process.

 

[GeoLeoX]

Top Five Numbers:

1) 1
2) 2
3) 3
4) 73
5) 5

I was really pulling for 73. Good on ya, mate!

g,md,phd

 

[yaah]

Top 5 pitchers I would have liked to see in action:
1) Sandy Koufax
2) Bob Gibson
3) Early Wynn
4) Walter "Big Train" Johnson
5) Cy Young

Top 5 batters I would like to have seen hit
1) Ted Williams
2) The Babe
3) Ty Cobb
4) Mickey Mantle
5) Rogers Hornsby or Willie Mays. Not sure

 

[kaw]

I just got my scores back from step 1 and got a 236/95. My first two years were a mix of As and Bs. I love pathology and I know I will be competitive, but are these competitive enough for the top programs like Mass General?

thanks

 

[Logos']

...

 

[governaitor]

I just got my scores back from step 1 and got a 236/95. My first two years were a mix of As and Bs. I love pathology and I know I will be competitive, but are these competitive enough for the top programs like Mass General?

thanks

Absolutely. A 236 wouldn't hold you back in any field at any program. MGH, and every other program you apply to, will interview you for sure.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

236 is a kickass score. Congrats man!

 

[yaah]

Top 5 greatest political convention moments of all time:

5) Nixon slays Goldwater in epic sword-fighting duel to decide RNC final platform, 1968
4) Last audience member finally falls asleep, 9.7 minutes into Al Gore's 2000 acceptance speech.
3) George W Bush refers to Nelson Rockefeller as "Nelly Rocketfellow" at 2000 RNC.
2) Walter Mondale barrels on stage on the back of a Harley to the strains of the Scorpions' "Rock you like a Hurricane," San Francisco, 1984.
1) That guy yelling for the balloons to be dropped at last night's convention. Jesus! Where the hell are my balloons? What the **** are you guys doing up there?

 

[Primate]

Top 5 movies of 1986:

1) Top Gun.

There were other movies?

P

 

[yaah]

Ah but there were other movies:

Hoosiers
Aliens
Platoon
Star Trek IV
The Mission (like the music, not so much the movie)
Stand By Me

And of course we can't forget Karate Kid II. ALthough we would like to.

Best movie of 1986 was Ferris Bueller.

 

[Matte Kudesai]

Ah but there were other movies:
The Mission (like the music, not so much the movie)
.

Ennio Morricone rocks.

 

[Matte Kudesai]

1) Rasberry.....(sputum)
2) Chocolate.....(cyst)
3) Nutmeg....(liver)
4) Cheesy(caseous)(necrosis)......
5) Strawberry...(cervix)

 

[b&ierstiefel]

So I've been on a classical music kick for some days now...I realize how much I miss listening to piano concertos. So in that spirit, I offer what I consider are my top 5 piano concerto composers:

1) Rachmaninoff (or Rachmaninov depending on how you prefer it spelled).
2) Tchaikovsky
3) Liszt
4) Prokofiev
5) Beethoven

 

[yaah]

So I've been on a classical music kick for some days now...I realize how much I miss listening to piano concertos. So in that spirit, I offer what I consider are my top 5 piano concerto composers:

1) Rachmaninoff (or Rachmaninov depending on how you prefer it spelled).
2) Tchaikovsky
3) Liszt
4) Prokofiev
5) Beethoven

The fact that you put Beethoven last and left off Chopin, ach. But you are speaking my language so you are forgiven.

It's alright though, you made some good choices. Prokofiev is impressive to listen to - I am not a big fan of his concerto for the left hand alone though (written for a one armed war veteran).

Tchaikovsky's No. 1 is monumental. Can't argue with that. The Rach 2 and 3 are also superior works of art. The opening to the Rach 2 and the close of the Rach 3 are 2 of my favorite musical moments. Liszt is all fireworks, I prefer his solo stuff. Beethoven, ah. Perfection plus.

My list would go:
1) Beethoven (In particular, #5 followed by #1, then #3, then 4 then 2).
2) Chopin
3) Rachmaninoff
4) Tchaikovsky
5) Mendelssohn (brief but rhythmically, Mendelssohn is the most kickass composer ever).

Other ones that I like:
Grieg's concerto
Schumann (esp the 1st movement)
Brahms (sometimes a little too much pathos).
Mozart of course.

Andy, if you like piano concertos, there is a fantastic group of CDs on the Hyperion label - can find them online. I have a bunch. They are all romantic era concertos.
This is the best - Scharwenka and Sauer
Other great ones:
Fuchs and Kiel - these are fantastically lyrical.
Kullak and Dreyschock - gorgeous.
Busoni's only piano concerto (Busoni was one of the greatest pianists of all time).
Litolff - the scherzos are the some of the most amazing "fast" music I have ever heard.

 

[Matte Kudesai]

I think Horowitz is the greatest pianist I have ever heard.

The recordings from the late fifties to mid sixties are especially unbelievable (Berlin symphony).

http://www.marymaclane.com/horowitz/amazon.html

Also any piano concerto lover must check out Scriabin as a composer.

Unbelievable.

Especially, when rendered by Horowitz.

Check out Etude In D - Sharp Minor, Op.8, No.12 at the follwing site third selection

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000026FI/qid=928457675/sr=1-11/002-9634797-5613630

 

[Matte Kudesai]

The Rach 2 and 3 are also superior works of art. The opening to the Rach 2 and the close of the Rach 3 are 2 of my favorite musical moments.

I think the greatest recording of
Rachmaninoff's Concerto for Piano no 3 in D minor, Op. 30
was Horowitz's performance on 05/1951 with Fritz Reiner conducting the Berlin Symphony.

It is unbelievable. He actually was one of Rachmaninoff's favorite pianists. Rach actually wrote pieces considering him (Horowitz) as the final interpreter.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

The fact that you put Beethoven last and left off Chopin, ach. But you are speaking my language so you are forgiven.

Well I love Chopin and have played many of his solo pieces. I do like his piano concertos but I'm more a fan of his solo work (waltzes, etudes, scherzos, etc.)

Tchaikovsky's No. 1 is monumental. Can't argue with that. The Rach 2 and 3 are also superior works of art. The opening to the Rach 2 and the close of the Rach 3 are 2 of my favorite musical moments. Liszt is all fireworks, I prefer his solo stuff. Beethoven, ah. Perfection plus.

The only reason why I put Beethoven as #5 and not higher is that I've been listening to more contemporary work as of late. It took me a long time to understand Prokofiev's concerto's but as I listened to it more and more, they kinda grew on me.

My list would go:
1) Beethoven (In particular, #5 followed by #1, then #3, then 4 then 2).
2) Chopin
3) Rachmaninoff
4) Tchaikovsky
5) Mendelssohn (brief but rhythmically, Mendelssohn is the most kickass composer ever).

The dark horse Mendelssohn sneaks into the top five!

Andy, if you like piano concertos, there is a fantastic group of CDs on the Hyperion label - can find them online. I have a bunch. They are all romantic era concertos.
This is the best - Scharwenka and Sauer
Other great ones:
Fuchs and Kiel - these are fantastically lyrical.
Kullak and Dreyschock - gorgeous.
Busoni's only piano concerto (Busoni was one of the greatest pianists of all time).
Litolff - the scherzos are the some of the most amazing "fast" music I have ever heard.

Thanks for the info. I haven't actually bought a CD in ages; this trend may have to end soon

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I think the greatest recording of
Rachmaninoff's Concerto for Piano no 3 in D minor, Op. 30
was Horowitz's performance on 05/1951 with Fritz Reiner conducting the Berlin Symphony.

It is unbelievable. He actually was one of Rachmaninoff's favorite pianists. Rach actually wrote pieces considering him (Horowitz) as the final interpreter.

I totally agree that Horowitz was one of the greats to play the piano (or shall we call it the pianoforte). I haven't listened to this CD that you mention...now I really wanna get it.

A year ago, I bought the Rachmaninoff plays Rachmaninoff box set. Although I consider him to be a brilliant composer, I was kinda disappointed when I listened to him perform his own work...it just lacks emotion and simply is a display of technical skill.

Fortunately, other pianists who have performed his work have done a wonderful job interpreting the music such as Van Cliburn (I love his recording of Rachmaninoff's 2nd), Evgeny Kissin (his live performance of Rachmaninoff's 3rd was amazing), etc.

Quick question (a minor point)...did Horowitz play the extended cadenza of the first movement or the abbreviated version?

 

[yaah]

Well I love Chopin and have played many of his solo pieces. I do like his piano concertos but I'm more a fan of his solo work (waltzes, etudes, scherzos, etc.)

Chopin has a fascinating life story - really was quite a revolutionary thinker. This book about pianists is a fascinating read, talks about every great pianist from Bach and Cramer to Hofmann, Horowitz, Rubinstein (who performed into his 90's!) et al. Chopin, for example, was so ill from tuberculosis that he was basically limited to playing in Paris salons in front of a handful of people, because he actually couldn't depress the keys hard enough. I find that difficult to believe, and perhaps an exaggeration, because the technical skill and speed that most of Chopin requires is hard to perform without having strength and stamina. But I'm not Chopin.

It was interesting to read about different pianists and how they made their careers - famous people in their day who are now relative unknowns (Alkan, Moscheles, Dreyschock, Thalberg) while others who were their equals (Liszt, Saint-Saens) became immortals in the world of music. After reading this, the few that I decided I really wanted to hear play were Alkan, D'Albert, Liszt (Liszt and Thalberg had a famous "piano duel"), Chopin, and Josef Hofmann.

What I remember most about the book is learning about the caliber of musician that these men (and women, like Clara Schumann) were. Liszt could sight-read anything. There is a story of an after dinner conversation between Wagner, Liszt, and Saint-Saens. Wagner and Liszt were speaking German and Saint-Saens didn't understand much, so he went to the piano, where Wagner's score to the unfinished Gotterdammerung was sitting. And he sat down, having obviously never heard this music, and sight read it. Translating the full orchestral score into a piano work instantaneously and leaving Wagner dumbfounded. And if you have ever seen the orchestral score to Gotterdammerung, let's just say it's scored for more than just strings.