Things I wish I knew during the application process

[hannakm]

Hi everyone!
I was reflecting on the application process and decided to compile a list of some of the things I found most helpful. Some of it comes from the advice of friends, health advisers and SDN, and others are just things I happened to learn by chance while navigating the process on my own. Thought I'd share because it's handy to have a convenient summary/list of everything in one place, and also some things might not be as well known.

I was also thinking it would be great to have a thread in general with miscellaneous tips about the process, so feel free to add your input here! Also would be happy to fix/add anything to what I have written

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[hannakm]

COST

• Save save save! Depending on what schools you apply to and whether or not you have to pay for primaries/secondaries, it’s probably a good idea to save up at least $2000-5000 dollars, particularly if you are applying to several schools out-of-state (this might be an overestimate for some people, but better to be safe than sorry). Whether this means saving up a little bit over 4 years of part-time jobs in college or allocating a chunk of your gap year salary, be prepared financially so that your ability to submit an app/attend an interview isn’t completely dependent on whether or not you have money in the bank.
• Fee Assistance Program: Probably the best advice I was ever given about med school apps was to apply to the AAMC Fee Assistance Program, especially considering how underprepared I was financially to apply to med school at the time. If your household has an income 300% or less of the national poverty level, then you might qualify for AAMC’s fee assistance program, which similar to the common app for undergraduate colleges, will waive up to 15 primary applications as well as most of your secondary application fees (Out of my 22 med schools, only Baylor required me to pay the secondary application fee). Information about FAP can be found here. Try to apply as early as possible, since funding is limited and later applications won’t guarantee waivers, even if you meet the eligibility requirements. I submitted my application in early February.
• Interviews: If you’re lucky, you’ll get a couple months of notice in advance before your interview. If you’re less lucky (of course still lucky since you got an interview in the first place), you may only get 2 weeks–maybe even less–of notice before your scheduled interview date. This is why, if you’re applying to out-of-state schools, the interview costs can end up eating up a significant chunk of your savings. Sometimes you might have to foot the costs of a $300 plane ride, but there are some things you can do to minimize costs as much as possible (detailed later under "Traveling for Interviews")

PRIMARY/SECONDARY APPS

• The Primary in a Nutshell: Aside from your basic biographic information, coursework, school list and letters of evaluation, the primary AMCAS requires you to write a personal statement (up to 5300 characters) and up to 15 entries of work/activities, including a short ~500 character description and hours worked. Of your activities, you will also be asked to select 3 as the “most meaningful” and write an additional short answer on why. The work/activities and personal statement will likely be the most time-consuming part of your application.
  • When brainstorming what to write in the description for work/activities, consider the following questions:
    • What measurable impacts have I made with my organization?
    • What have I learned from this experience? How have I grown? What skills have I gained?
    • If relevant, what has this experience taught me about the field of medicine? What has the experience made me appreciate?
  • For “Most Meaningful Experience” blurbs, it may be helpful to jot down specific memories from your experience.
  • 15 spaces isn’t enough? Group things into categories! For instance, I clumped all awards/honors/distinctions into one entry. I also worked several part-time jobs during college to earn money, so I clumped those into one as well and just briefly listed all of the jobs in the experience description.
  • 15 spaces is too much? Don’t feel pressured to fill up the empty space. Just use as much as you need to get everything across.
• Personal Statement: Not going to say too much since there are a lot of great guides online, but in simple terms, your personal statement should be (1) concise, (2) humble, (3) reflect who you are (perhaps how you’ve grown) and (4) demonstrate your path and commitment to medicine.
• Submit early: After submitting your AMCAS, it takes a few weeks for your application to be processed and actually sent to your medical schools. Since many medical schools offer interviews and acceptances on a rolling basis, the earlier you get your application in the better. Try to submit your primary AMCAS as close to the first day as possible, ideally within the first two weeks if you can. (This doesn’t mean to rush to submit your app on day one; proofread every section, ensure quality and submit as soon as you feel ready)
• Send transcripts ASAP! You can send transcripts as soon as the application cycle opens, so don’t wait to send them. Even if your primary AMCAS is submitted, it won’t be considered complete and processed until your transcripts are in as well. To avoid unexpected delays, send your transcripts to AAMC as soon as they’re ready.
• Secondaries: The earlier you submit your primary, the earlier it’s verified and sent to schools, and the earlier you will receive your secondaries. Like the primary, strive to get your secondary applications in early as well (ideally within 2 weeks of receipt, although there is a little leeway). If you anticipate traveling/having limited internet connection/being busy between July and August, consider pre-writing some essays beforehand. It’s not necessary to prewrite your secondaries, but keep in mind that secondaries will flood your inbox in batches as soon as your application is verified. Having some prewritten essays on hand can really help take off some of the burden so you don’t burn out chugging 20+ essays in July and August. Medical school secondaries don’t change much from year to year, so you can search “X School of Medicine secondary prompts” online to get a headstart with the prompts. Some common prompts are:
  • Why X School? OR How do your experiences/interests match our school’s mission?
  • Describe a challenge and how you overcame it.
  • If you have taken gap year(s), describe what you have done since graduation.
    • Again, for this prompt, rather than simply listing everything, it’s okay to elaborate a little on why you’re doing what you’re doing and what you have or hope to have learned.
  • Describe yourself/Diversity Statement (ie what makes you you)
    • If you’re only going to prewrite one essay, this is probably the one to prewrite and refine. Many schools have an open-ended essay/describe yourself/autobiographical sketch/diversity statement prompt with word limits between 500-5000 characters, so if you write one essay that you can tweak the word count of, you’ll be set for a lot of schools.
• Don't copy-paste. Secondary applications might seem pretty redundant, but don’t use that as an excuse to copy-paste from your primary. Treat the secondary as an extra opportunity to show the medical school more of who you are. Write about different experiences than the ones you wrote about in your personal statement, elaborate in more detail on experiences only mentioned briefly, etc. Be consistent, but not repetitive. In other words, if you said you’re extremely passionate about teaching in your primary, it’s okay to talk about your passion for teaching in your secondary. Just don’t tell the same story twice.
• Proof-read. Proof-read your primary, proof-read your secondary. Proof-read again. Make sure you don’t accidentally write about Cornell in an essay for Feinberg.
• Check for/finish any other additional requirements. For instance, many schools including Rutgers RWJ, University of Michigan, Drexel and Temple require all applicants to take an additional standardized test called CASPer, an online 60-90 minute examination designed to assess non-academic skills like collaboration, ethics, professionalism and problem solving. It is designed such that you don’t need to prepare for it beforehand, so just sign up for the earliest convenient testing date and get it over with so that your med school app will be considered complete and sent to the admissions committee for evaluation.

Once your primary and secondary apps are submitted, the wait begins! If you have everything between July and early August, interview offers can start trickling in any time starting early August (or in very rare cases, late July). That said, don’t feel anxious if it’s August/September and you haven’t heard anything. More than half of my interview invites didn’t come in until October/November, and there are people who continue to receive interviews all the way until February/March! I think the general rule is not to start worrying unless you haven’t gotten a single interview by Thanksgiving, so until then, sit tight, enjoy life, and appreciate the free time while (if) you have it.

PREPARING FOR INTERVIEWS

• Know your application. Be prepared to answer any questions about your primary or secondary application. Unless you have a multiple mini-interview (MMI), a majority of your interviews will likely address-if not concentrate on-your application. If it helps, print and annotate your application with extra experiences, what you’ve learned from the experience, and how it has helped you grow. Questions about your application may come up in the following ways:
  • Elaborate on this activity
  • Why did you join this club?
  • Tell me about your research (for this one, don’t get too technical from the getgo. Summarize your research in layman’s terms and only elaborate further if the interviewer asks. For one interview, my interviewer actually asked me, word by word, “Explain your research to me as if I were an 8 year old.”)
  • Tell me about your clinical experience
  • How did you choose your major/minor?
  • What was your favorite/least favorite course at Your University?
• Know yourself. This may sound silly, I know. But reflecting on who you are/the background you come from is a really great exercise for preparing for medical school interviews because chances are you’ll be asked about yourself. Think about how/where you grew up, the path you’ve taken to get to where you are, who you are outside of medicine, etc. Questions intended to get to know you include, but aren’t limited to:
  • So tell me about yourself
  • Tell me about your family/where you grew up
  • What do you like to do in your free time?
• Know why medicine. I would be surprised if any school didn’t ask some form of “why medicine?”. Be able to explain why you are going into medicine and not any other field. Reflect on any experiences that influenced you, summarize your decision-making process and the ultimate reasons behind your decision. Some points to consider that may or may not be relevant are:
  • Why pursue the M.D. degree, not nursing/PA/MA/any other field of medicine?
  • If you have research experience, why M.D instead of a Ph.D (or MD/PhD)?
  • If you have significant teaching/mentoring experience, why medicine and not a career in education?
  • Realize that “helping people” alone isn’t a strong enough argument for medical schools. There are a number of other jobs (social work, non-profits, education, etcetc) that achieve the same purpose.
  • Medicine is great, but also be aware of some of the limitations and drawbacks. Show that you’re realistic–though not cynical–about the profession and that you’re interested in medicine despite the limitations it may face.
    • On the issue of limitations of healthcare: Not everyone has the same experience, but at least I was asked during three separate interviews variations of “What do you think are the greatest limitations/drawbacks of American healthcare?” This might be a good topic to do a bit of research on or brainstorm beforehand, whether through drawing from examples from your clinical experience or reading news articles online.
• Know the school. Hopefully, you did some research before crafting your school list so you have at least a vague idea of what made you decide to apply. If you didn’t, now is the time to do that. In addition to knowing the general mission and values of the school, research opportunities that the school has that match your specific interests. For example, are you interested in social justice? Do you value a school’s emphasis on student wellness? What kind of opportunities do students have to get involved with x, y or z type of research? Whether through reading specific school website/handouts, skimming MSAR, talking to current students, looking at blogs or all of the above, be prepared to answer “Why X School?” and demonstrate why you would be a good fit. Personally, I typed up ~2 pages of notes for each school I received an interview from and found them useful to skim before interview day.
• Glance over some other common questions. These aren’t necessary to prepare for, but if you have some extra free time looking over them can’t hurt.
  • Name 5 strengths/weaknesses
  • Tell me about a time you failed (ie. tell me about a time you failed and how you learned from it).
  • Describe a challenge you faced and how you overcame it.
  • What problems do you anticipate facing as a future medical student/physician?
  • Where do you see yourself in 10 years?
  • What do you think are the qualities that make a good physician?
  • Why should we choose you?
  • What do you look for in a medical school?
  • What would you do if you didn’t get into medical school this year?
  • Just search “sample medical school interview questions” to find a bunch more
• Prepare to ask questions. When the interviewer asks “do you have any questions for me?”, it’s generally a good idea to ask a question. It’s also a great opportunity for you to learn more about the school, the profession, or anything else you want to know about. If you can’t think of any questions that come up during your conversation with your interviewer, here are some ideas of what you could ask:
  • What was your path to medicine? What brought you to X Medical School?
  • What do you like most about X Medical School? What do you wish could be changed?
  • (If the interviewer has been with the medical school for a long time) How has X Medical School changed over the years?
  • What kind of patient populations do you see?
  • How is your work/life balance?
  • What is it like to work as a physician in City/Town?
  • Can you elaborate on your involvement in X?
  • If you’re interviewing with a student, ask about student life, clinical rotations, receptiveness to student feedback, why they chose the school, what they do in their free time, etc. Other informative questions can be found here, although some of the questions are more to ask during/after the interview day rather than during the interview.
• MMIs: I was fortunate(?) enough not to have any MMI interviews during my application cycle, so I won’t talk too much about it aside from saying it’s good to prepare in advance. MMIs, or multiple-mini interviews, are short, timed stations that interviewees rotate through. In each station, the interviewee interacts with a different interviewer and is assessed on things such as cultural sensitivity, teamwork, empathy, etc. Interviewees may be asked about ethical scenarios, and one station might be a more traditional “tell me about yourself”.
  • You can find examples of scenarios through a simple Google search. This presentation also has good advice.
• Need more tips? Here are some links. I also found Goro’s guide to be a particularly helpful read before interview day.

TRAVELING FOR INTERVIEWS

• Public transit v. taxi/uber/lyft: Depending on where you are, the best mode of transportation will vary. This may seem like common sense, but I’ve talked to a few people who have had unexpected trouble getting to interview sites on time. If you know any students or people from the area, it would be a good idea to ask what they use for transportation. To give a couple examples, uber/lyft is probably the better option in Rochester, MN where the airport-Mayo shuttle only runs every 3 or so hours until 6PM and is only a few dollars cheaper. Meanwhile, in NYC, there is usually a lot of traffic which means that uber/lyft/via time estimates are often not very accurate. During peak hours in downtown Manhattan, a ~10 minute car ride could take an hour, so depending on how far you are from the interview site, walking or taking the subway is likely your best bet.
• Saving on travel: Last-minute flights are expensive, and sometimes there is no way around them. But by minimizing costs for other interviews, you can limit the amount of money you spend overall.
  • Compare costs–and check Southwest. Obviously, it’s good to compare prices online between different airlines. Make sure to take into account policies on baggage (eg. the cheapest United flight does not include a free carry-on bag). Another thing that isn’t widely known is that Southwest airlines doesn’t appear on most (if not all?) price comparison sites, so don’t forget to include Southwest in your airline comparisons. Two great benefits about Southwest is that they give you two free checked bags, and they charge no fee for cancelling or rescheduling your flight (you just have to pay the difference in ticket price). The option to reschedule a flight for free can sometimes make a huge difference (eg. if a school fulfills an ITA request–read more below).
  • Send “ITAs”: ITAs, or in-the-area requests, are great to send to schools as long as you send them at least a month or more in advance. Applying to med school is an expensive process both time and money-wise, and many medical schools (eg. Weill Cornell and Pritzker at UChicago) understand this and will try as much as they can to accommodate for you. If you are going to be in the area for another interview/family trip/etc, consider sending an email to other schools as well. As long as you’re polite with your request, an ITA can’t hurt you.
    • A quick blurb on wording ITA emails: From my own experience, I know that some medical schools are kind enough to take ITA requests into account whenever they can. However, it’s also true that they have no obligation to fulfill your request. Even simply getting an interview invite in the first place is a privilege, and it’s important to acknowledge this in your ITA email. For mine, I wrote something along the lines of “I understand that X school only interviews a limited number of the most competitive applicants. However, if I am fortunate enough to receive an interview, I was wondering if it would it be possible to schedule within Y time frame to reduce the costs of traveling and minimize time taken away from work”. As long as you’re humble in your request though, whatever wording you use should be fine.
  • Public transit can be convenient! Check if your area has buses/shuttles/etc that take you to and from the airport/medical school. For instance, the 55 bus in Chicago will take you straight (literally) from University of Chicago to the Midway airport. Pritzker SOM is only a ~7 minute walk to the bus stop. If you’re unfamiliar with the area and your transportation options, Google Maps is a life saver. And if you want to be safe, it’s okay to ask the people around you to make sure you’re at the right place.
  • Early bird specials and free rides: Look in your area to see if there are any transportation companies that offer mega-discounts or have a reward system for rides. For instance, if you book tickets 3+ weeks in advance, Megabus prices for certain times and destinations can be heavily discounted (eg. for one interview, I only spent $12 for a roundtrip bus ticket from DC to Philadelphia). Vamoose Bus, which travels between the DC/MD/VA and NYC, has a rewards system in which every ticket purchase adds up in credit that you can eventually redeem for a free ride.

side note: this post isn't sponsored by Southwest, Megabus or Vamoose.. just speaking from my own experiences trying to find travel options

• What I pack for the trip:
  • Towel
  • Travel toiletry set: shampoo, conditioner (if needed), body wash, toothbrush, toothpaste
  • Interview suit and shoes, including black socks
  • Comfortable clothes to wear outside of interview day (eg. pajamas, tshirt/jeans, undergarments, comfortable shoes)
  • Binder with your AMCAS primary, secondar(ies) and notes specific to the medical school — almost every school I interviewed at had some variation of “Why our school?”, so having some handouts or quick bullet points on hand can be helpful to review.
    • Some applicants brought copies of their CV/research articles/etc, but I personally never did and don’t think it’s necessary.
  • Pen and small notepad; handy for taking notes in case your school doesn’t provide you with a writing utensil on interview day.
    • Keep the pen and paper with you during interview day to jot down notes about the school (and the conversations you have with your interviewers in case you have to write thank you letters later that night).
  • Phone charger
  • A book or something to do on the way
  • Emergency cash (ie money I’ll probably end up using on food at some cool cash-only market/food truck/street food cart)
  • Optional: basic makeup kit, hair ties, breath mints, contacts/glasses, earplugs, wristwatch, snacks
  • Never packed a pillow/sleeping bag, because I was fortunate enough to only have hosts that provided pillow/blankets/couch to sleep on.

THE WAIT

• Take notes! If you ever have time after an interview day, take time to journal and reflect on your impressions of the day. It might seem silly now, but it will be unbelievably useful when you realize in a few months that you barely remember details of the experience. Even making a bulleted list of things you liked/disliked about the school will be helpful when decision-making season comes around. Reading your interview day notes will also help in drafting letters of interest/intent later down the line.
• Write thank yous (unless they say otherwise). Within 24 hours of your interview, send a thank you to your interviewer(s) either directly to the admissions office/to the interviewers themselves, or by uploading to the application portal. If instructions on where to send thank yous weren’t given during an info session, your best bet is probably to send an email to the admissions office and ask them to forward your notes. I didn’t take my laptop with me when I traveled, so I just drafted and sent emails from my iPhone to thank the interviewers for their time and reaffirm my interest in the school. For some schools, the thank you won’t really be more than just a nice gesture, but for other schools (eg. Georgetown and Mayo), all communication including thank you letters are taken into account during the admissions process.
• Send updates: Once you’ve finished your interviews, consider sending a post-II update to your schools. While the update won’t be necessary for some schools like Stanford or Harvard, other schools like Columbia, Feinberg, Mayo, Jeff (SKMC), and Pritzker explicitly state during their interview day that they like to hear about what you’ve been doing since you applied. In your update letter, it’s usually appropriate to also include a blurb reaffirming your interest in the school and why you think it’d be a good fit.
  • Even if you haven’t heard from the school at all since submitting your application, it’s ~generally~ okay to send an update anyway. In fact, for some schools I’d encourage it because it demonstrates continued interest (eg. I know at least Feinberg and SKMC are very receptive to pre-II updates).
  • An example list of some schools that accept updates (NOT comprehensive, just some of the schools I applied to)
    • Emory – Accepts updates in text-format through the online portal. Go to “STATUS” -> “Update My Application” on the left side of the screen, then there should be a textbox where you can input your information.
    • Feinberg (Northwestern), Sidney Kimmel, Pritzker – Email your updates to the admissions committee (apparently I'm not allowed to post the emails on SDN?)
    • Perelman, Columbia, NYU, Mt. Sinai, Harvard, Yale, Georgetown -Upload updates to your online application portal
    • Baylor – People who have not received interview invites can send updates. Baylor doesn’t accept post-interview updates
    • Case Western – Updates are only accepted from applicants who are (1) invited for an interview (2) on hold for a future interview or (3) on the alternate list. There will be a place to upload updates on the application portal
    • Stanford and Mayo only accept significant updates for applicants post-interview invite.
• Sit back and relax! If you’re done with interviews, now all that’s left is the waiting game. If you have some free time, read that book or binge that TV show you’ve been procrastinating on, take on a DIY project, start a new hobby, plan that travel you’ve been dreaming of for decades… whatever you want to do to enjoy life and distract yourself until the big day comes.

Good luck everyone!!

 

[MyOdyssey]

Hi everyone!
I was reflecting on the application process and decided to compile a list of some of the things I found most helpful. Some of it comes from the advice of friends, health advisers and SDN, and others are just things I happened to learn by chance while navigating the process on my own. Thought I'd share because it's handy to have a convenient summary/list of everything in one place, and also some things might not be as well known.

I was also thinking it would be great to have a thread in general with miscellaneous tips about the process, so feel free to add your input here! Also would be happy to fix/add anything to what I have written

How many interview invitations did you receive after Oct 15?

Can you please provide some advice on MCAT prep?

 

[drtribbiani]

Thanks for the post, I'll definitely be referring back to this 6 months from now! When would you say is the latest to submit your primary app to still be considered "early"?

 

[faerie62]

One of the biggest ones for me was to register/take the CASPer. I’d never heard of it until I actually started applying.

 

[hannakm]

How many interview invitations did you receive after Oct 15?

Can you please provide some advice on MCAT prep?

I received one interview invite around October 15th (maybe a few days before), and 3 in late October/November. It's been two years since I prepped for the MCAT (haha) so I don't remember too much anymore/what has changed, but I can write up something on how to study for the MCAT based on my old notes/resources and asking around! I'll let you know when I'm done.

Thanks for the post, I'll definitely be referring back to this 6 months from now! When would you say is the latest to submit your primary app to still be considered "early"?

No problem, hope it helps! Personally, I'd say mid-June submission is the latest to be considered early, since apps submitted between late June/July also tend to take longer to verify than earlier apps (just because of the higher volume of apps submitted during that time). It's not necessarily detrimental to submit your app later and I have a couple friends who have been successful with later apps, but it's generally better to submit as early as you can considering the limited seats/rolling admissions (also if you look at it one way, the earlier you submit, the more rounds/chances you probably have of having your app looked at).

One of the biggest ones for me was to register/take the CASPer. I’d never heard of it until I actually started applying.

Ah yes!! I actually experienced this too since one of my schools required me to take CASPer and I had no idea what it was lol. I'll add it to my post!

 

[drtribbiani]

No problem, hope it helps! Personally, I'd say mid-June submission is the latest to be considered early, since apps submitted between late June/July also tend to take longer to verify than earlier apps (just because of the higher volume of apps submitted during that time). It's not necessarily detrimental to submit your app later and I have a couple friends who have been successful with later apps, but it's generally better to submit as early as you can considering the limited seats/rolling admissions (also if you look at it one way, the earlier you submit, the more rounds/chances you probably have of having your app looked at).

Thanks bud! I was just wondering since I'll be out of the country (on a cruise) until 6/10. This probably wouldn't affect my chances, right?

 

[chemdoctor]

How could you answer least favorite course without sounding douchey haha.

 

[hannakm]

Thanks bud! I was just wondering since I'll be out of the country (on a cruise) until 6/10. This probably wouldn't affect my chances, right?

Haha you're good. Enjoy the cruise!

How could you answer least favorite course without sounding douchey haha.

I think favorite/most interesting course would be much more likely to come up (was asked favorite/most interesting a few times but least favorite only once). If someone asks, you could just talk about some aspect of the course you didn't like eg. "The class required a lot of rote memorization and I wish there was more integrated critical thinking" or "The class focused a lot on X but it would have been great if we were able to see more through Y lens". Or talk about a class that isn't necessarily a "least favorite" but didn't meet your expectations (thought you were going to learn something that wasn't covered as much as you'd hoped, a class you wish had more group discussion, etcetc)

 

[boundlesscorpuscle]

This is a really great and comprehensive thread! Just to add my piece:

Something I wish I had known is that you can (and if you have a late MCAT date, SHOULD) submit your AMCAS/primary for verification prior to receiving your MCAT scores. Choose one school you're interested in to list on the application and go back and add schools later.

This is something I could have found out much earlier if I were a little more on top of things, but alas, I was woefully under-prepared for application season. I took my MCAT in early July and waited for my scores before finalizing my school list and submitting my AMCAS, which meant I wasn't verified until September. Please, save yourself that stress!

 

[Lardy Boy]

Great info


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[lalalallala]

Put time into your personal statement and secondary essays - make sure all of your strengths and experiences are wrapped up nicely into a package that stands out for admissions committee members - be specific in your experiences and give examples that make it more interesting for them to read.

Be prompt. AMCAS need to be in by end of June and all secondaries by end of August at the latest.

Know the school well for interviews. Be ready to tell them about yourself, about your most meaningful experiences, why you want to be a doctor (have a good answer), and why you need to go to that school in particular.

Send personal thank yous and send updates in the late fall or winter if you haven't heard back.

Be professional and prompt and courteous always. Reach out to your school pre-med advisors for advice on your essays and always show not tell (aka give them an example of how you are a hard worker as opposed to just saying that).

And don't forget - your value is not dependent on the number of II's or A's you get. Never has been - never will be.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

Make sure you get good advice about your school list from trusted people who know you, your application, and the current medical school application process. You can find advisors on SDN and in real life. MSAR is helpful to a point, but crafting an entire list is quite the skill.

What I have noticed on SDN is that there are of course, the people with challenges/issues in their apps and they ask a lot of questions on SDN and get a lot of support on how to make their applications better, and which schools to apply to to try to eek out that ONE acceptance.

What I do not see done well on SDN are the tippy top students. There are people on SDN who got upwards of 14-20 II's and people sitting on more than 10 A's already this season. I don't know whether these students did not ask for advice OR if they did ask for advice, these students did not heed it. (or maybe they asked and got bad advice?)

No one should end up with this many interview invites or acceptances. It is a waste of energy and resources to go on too many interviews, and applicants run the risk of burning out. If BMS is your dream school, you don't want to show up there as a 10th interview. And weighing too many acceptances is also overly burdensome. A well-crafted, personalized school list ensures that an applicant ideally garners no more than 10 II's and no more than 4-5 acceptances at schools that are a great fit for the applicant. Although ADCOM's individually can be a bit UNpredictable, and therefore, it is almost impossible to guess exactly which schools will go for a given student, a good advisor is going to be able to predict, overall, a tippy top student's chances at schools. I have done this (pro bono) for years for a lot of students, and the tippy top students are identifiable by us advisors and we can predict which % of top schools will offer II and accept. If I have a green beret, URIM, whose family grew up living in their car, with 3.9 from an IVY and 522, with all the right EC's, while I can not predict exactly WHICH schools will/will not offer II, I know it is going to be at least >75% of T20 schools. So I do not recommend sending 34 secondaries. This student needs just 12-15 well-selected schools that are a good fit, max to apply to. I know this is an extreme example, but there are a few here on SDN who seem to come pretty close. So to the next class on SDN, please get advice on school list, even if or especially if, you are a tippy top applicant. And you can do a lot of sleuthing before you even apply to learn how schools differ to make sure the schools you pick are good fits. (Interview day is not usually helpful in assessing "fit".)

 

[Ad2b]

I would strongly disagree with this for two reasons.
1) Pick a school you have NO INTEREST in, a throwaway school, solely for purposes of verification

It is a rare occasion that I reply or include anything Gonnif but in this case, it cannot be emphasized enough

Why? Because IF you do not get in or get a @#$ score and decide to step out that cycle, that 1 school will consider you a reapplicant next cycle. Better to pick like Harvard or Yale (I mean, for me, there's at least 30 schools that are throwaway for me because the endless laughing at me considering them would be heard worldwide, faster than BREAKING NEWS on CNN... )

 

[boundlesscorpuscle]

I would strongly disagree with this for two reasons.
1) Pick a school you have NO INTEREST in, a throwaway school, solely for purposes of verification . That way if you have bad MCAT, you havent completely destroyed your chances at a school that you may interested in the future
2) If you havent taken the MCAT, you should be spending near 100% time focusing on that and not split your time with writing AMCAS. Both AMCAS and MCAT need to be good in order to gain entry and should not be competing priorities

It is a rare occasion that I reply or include anything Gonnif but in this case, it cannot be emphasized enough

Why? Because IF you do not get in or get a @#$ score and decide to step out that cycle, that 1 school will consider you a reapplicant next cycle. Better to pick like Harvard or Yale (I mean, for me, there's at least 30 schools that are throwaway for me because the endless laughing at me considering them would be heard worldwide, faster than BREAKING NEWS on CNN... )

I see what you mean about choosing a "throwaway" school rather than a school you're actually interested in. I suppose I hadn't considered how that would affect someone as a reapplicant. Regardless, I think the general message of "get your AMCAS in as early as possible for verification" still stands.

 

[boundlesscorpuscle]

I am always utterly astounded by supposedly high achieving students who assume a self-imposed timetable for applying, do not understand the process well enough to realize how much time they need to complete finishing prereqs, MCAT prep, and filling out in a highly polished way, the AMCAS Primary Application and 10-25 additional secondary applications, the reality of the chances and competition that getting an acceptee truly is

Here is my reasoning in outline form of what applicants should prioritize

Applying to Med School means:
*Illuminating your positives
*Minimizing your negatives
*Optimizing your chances with timing
*Reducing your risks
*Efficiency in doing your application
*Being the strongest first time applicant

The MCAT:
*Is weighted as much as GPA
*Should be considered at least a 6 credit course in time and work load
*Will stay with your forever
*Risk should be reduced by having the prereqs completed and sufficient time, energy, and focus to do well on it once

Filing out the Applications:
*is the AMCAS primary and 10-25 supplemental applications
*that need to be coherent, concise and compelling
*completed with high quality and in a highly polished way
*Has lengthy transcript entries, ECs and many, many multiple essays
*Should be considered a nearly full-time job from mid-May thru at least mid August
*Be completed early in the cyclr as to give applicants the most optimal timing

The data on applicants include:
*15 is the average number of applications
*40% with 3.8 GPA or higher dont get an acceptance
*60% with 3.6-3.8 GPA dont get an acceptance
*20% with MCAT 517 or higher dont get acceptance
*nearly 50% of matriculants get a single offer of acceptance
*So nearly 1/2 of acceptees have a 7% acceptance rate
*about 60% of matriculants took a gap year

Therefore in priorities:
*Complete prereqs and focus on GPA before attempting MCAT
*Put nearly 100% time, energy and focus into MCAT for 6-12 weeks or more. Complete the MCAT before starting AMCAS, optimally before the application cycle begins
*Put nearly 100% of time, energy and focus into the actual applications
*Begin application prep weeks or months before they open (Jan of application year)

I completely agree with you Gonnif, and I am by no means trying to say I know better than you or any adcom. But I was indeed one of those students who was underprepared and underinformed about the application process, which was mostly my fault and partly due to sub-par advisors.

Applicants should absolutely realize the time commitment, the sheer amount of work, and the very possible futility (in the form of no acceptance) of the application process. And they should take as much time as is necessary to do well on the MCAT and craft a comprehensive primary application. They should also submit the AMCAS early in order to take advantage of the entirety of the interview season.

Unfortunately, as you pointed out, there are many who like me do not have the advantage of understanding the timeline in advance. In this case many if not most people might benefit from taking a gap year to give themselves the time needed to be the best applicant. However, I point out that everyone is different and will require different amounts of time to complete prereqs, study for the MCAT, and write their primary and secondary applications. In general the more time ypu devote to each the better they will be, but circumstances differ.

I got very lucky. I had started pre-writing some drafts of my AMCAS PS and activities in the Fall before my application cycle. I had completed all of my prereqs pretty early. I felt well-prepared in terms of content for the MCAT and was able to study my way to a great score in two months while also refining some of my AMCAS materials. I got on SDN late into the process and got some good advice. And despite my skewed timeline of submissions, I have gained acceptances to U.S. MD schools. The outcome could have been very different, because as you said, the odds are stacked.

Bottom line, I would encourage anyone reading this to learn from my mistakes, be informed, prepare early, and make sure you take however much time you personally need to be the best applicant you can be.

 

[OchemOficionado]

I think applicants stress themselves out with the timeline of it all. Early is amazing, but there are many people that are complete in Sept/Oct with 5+ IIs. I’m not promoting a “late” app by any means, just saying that the focus has shifted to June 1 or die type thing. If your app is it’s best on June 1, great! If it isn’t, that’s ok, keep perfecting it.

 

[965978]

Another tip:

Create a new email address and update your AAMC account with the new address. Use the new email address ONLY for AAMC related things.

FOR HEAVENS SAKE MAN! It’ll save you all the organization. It also makes it much less likely for an II or secondary invite email to get caught in the spam folder and makes it easier to catch if it does. I have my university address on there and sincerely regretting it.

 

[Run Long And Perspire]

Hey all, new here. Thanks for this post, there is a lot of great info here! Just curious for any input. I am applying this round (getting everything together to apply in the first week of June), and I was wondering how to spin my current job to sound most beneficial. We are fortunate to have a wildly diverse hospital in a town of less than 20k people. We have a cath lab, RA clinic, internal medicine clinic, cancer center, interventional radiology, orthopedic surgery clinic, ENT, peds, etc etc. Most of our patients are medicare patients so I also have extensive experience in CMS rules and regulations. Currently I work as a utilization management coordinator (I make up the entire UM department of our small 40-bed hospital). Essentially I assess/justify for medical necessity on all inpatient and observation patients. In a regular day, I will round with our hospitalists, and coordinate a care plan with them. I work closely with commercial insurance companies to achieve approval of services, and determine the most appropriate level of care. Additionally, I work with our LEAN department to identify and improve obsolete processes and procedures.

A little more background:
I received my BS in physiology in 2017 with a cGPA of 3.0, and then went on to get a MS in toxicology, which I completed in August of 2018 with a 3.98 and honors. I have a subpar MCAT score of 498 and I am sitting again in May for that. I have an excess of quality LORs, literally hundreds of hours of shadowing and volunteering. Since I graduated high school, I have had to work 40+ hours a week to support myself and help pay for school. I feel like this can somewhat forgive the poor undergraduate performance. I did quit work to get my MS, which was only a possibility because I have a wonderful supportive wife who worked hard and was willing to sacrifice our lifestyle to help me get through that degree.

My question is, how do you explain how working through school has helped you have unique experiences in such few characters, and how do I "reflect" on my current employment to show how much it has helped me grow? I was dead-set against a career in internal medicine until I began this job and starting working and rounding with the docs. I just want to draw an unforgettable picture for ADCOMs. Any suggestions?

 

[hannakm]

Hey all, new here. Thanks for this post, there is a lot of great info here! Just curious for any input. I am applying this round (getting everything together to apply in the first week of June), and I was wondering how to spin my current job to sound most beneficial. We are fortunate to have a wildly diverse hospital in a town of less than 20k people. We have a cath lab, RA clinic, internal medicine clinic, cancer center, interventional radiology, orthopedic surgery clinic, ENT, peds, etc etc. Most of our patients are medicare patients so I also have extensive experience in CMS rules and regulations. Currently I work as a utilization management coordinator (I make up the entire UM department of our small 40-bed hospital). Essentially I assess/justify for medical necessity on all inpatient and observation patients. In a regular day, I will round with our hospitalists, and coordinate a care plan with them. I work closely with commercial insurance companies to achieve approval of services, and determine the most appropriate level of care. Additionally, I work with our LEAN department to identify and improve obsolete processes and procedures.

A little more background:
I received my BS in physiology in 2017 with a cGPA of 3.0, and then went on to get a MS in toxicology, which I completed in August of 2018 with a 3.98 and honors. I have a subpar MCAT score of 498 and I am sitting again in May for that. I have an excess of quality LORs, literally hundreds of hours of shadowing and volunteering. Since I graduated high school, I have had to work 40+ hours a week to support myself and help pay for school. I feel like this can somewhat forgive the poor undergraduate performance. I did quit work to get my MS, which was only a possibility because I have a wonderful supportive wife who worked hard and was willing to sacrifice our lifestyle to help me get through that degree.

My question is, how do you explain how working through school has helped you have unique experiences in such few characters, and how do I "reflect" on my current employment to show how much it has helped me grow? I was dead-set against a career in internal medicine until I began this job and starting working and rounding with the docs. I just want to draw an unforgettable picture for ADCOMs. Any suggestions?

Ahh sorry I was MIA over the summer and didn’t see your post until now. I’m guessing you submitted your primary already?



Also thought I’d bump this post now as interview season is starting to ramp up. The primary/secondary blurb likely won’t be too relevant anymore, but the other stuff might be helpful. Good luck with the application cycle everyone!

 

[Run Long And Perspire]

Ahh sorry I was MIA over the summer and didn’t see your post until now. I’m guessing you submitted your primary already?



Also thought I’d bump this post now as interview season is starting to ramp up. The primary/secondary blurb likely won’t be too relevant anymore, but the other stuff might be helpful. Good luck with the application cycle everyone!

Hey, I appreciate the follow-up. Yes, you’re correct. I have submitted all of my applications. I have one interview invite so far, hoping for more. Only time will tell!