The politics of Katrina

[aphistis]

Yes, indeed. If that's not a recipe for disaster then I don't know what is.

Let's spend taxpayer dollars to rebuild a city that is below sea-level.

Problem is, it's not that simple. NO was the nation's 5th-largest port, and you can't rebuild an entryway of that size just anywhere you please. You have to build it where logistics will permit, and elevation notwithstanding, NO is one of those places. Personally, I'd rather have spent $5 billion once to make sure the place can withstand a storm like this, than lose however many billions per year in lost revenue now that it's a near-total loss.

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[five05]

I am a first year dental student and the things I've been hearing over the past few days, both in my class and on this forum, shock me. As future health care providers, should we not have at least some level of empathy? I'm learning there are two types of dental students/dentists. One that is in this field because they really do care about people and feel this is a good way to improve the lives of others, and another that is in it because it is a lucrative field with good working hours. Isn't that honestly the main difference between (for lack of better terms) Liberals and Conservatives? Liberals put the concerns of others above themselves, whereas Conservatives always put themselves first. There comes a time when we have to look through all the BS and get to the facts. The conservative party, President Bush's party is the party of fear, oppression, war, and yes, racism. Many will deny this, but maybe its time for some of you on the right to sit down and do some serious soul-searching. Can you honestly say that you wouldn't have a different opinion on this subject if the majority of people in NO were white? It saddens me that in the year 2005 we still have so much ignorance, and this forum is for supposedly educated people. I guess my point here is that we all come from very diverse backgrounds, and I just wish that some of you would try to be a little more understanding of other peoples' situations, and a little less judgmental.

One more thing, tx oms, how are we to believe that you are a compassionate person when you sign all of your posts with a misogynistic joke?

 

[UTDental]

If Hurricane Katrina isn't a wake up call for welfare reform, I don't know what is.

 

[bwa102]

If Hurricane Katrina isn't a wake up call for welfare reform, I don't know what is.

Agreed
At the risk of adding fuel to an already misguided political fire fight, the race issue here seems to me completely off target. To believe that the government intentionally withheld resources because of some purported conservative racism, the soul evidence being the disproportionate population of blacks that were victimized by the tragedy, whole heartedly ignores the real issue... namely, what causes such a large portion of the population of New Orleans to live in abject poverty? Lack of education, opportunity, hope... there are so many more issues here that deal with an America which ignores or hasn't figure out how to help those in need no matter the race. Perhaps the federal emergency response should have been faster, but does it bother no one else that fully 27% of the population lived below the federal poverty line and couldn't evacuate before the hurricane hit? Im not saying racism doesn't exist, but the next California earthquake it will be hispanics, and the next draught in Iowa it will be whites. The singular issue is our systematic failure to help those who don't have the means to help themselves, whether they be black, white, asian, or hispanic.

 

[grmaster1]

The singular issue is our systematic failure to help those who don't have the means to help themselves, whether they be black, white, asian, or hispanic.

Look this definition up:

A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy
and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress
toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the
people.

And, then, we'll talk...



Unfortunately or fortunately, we live in capitalism, which echoes the real human nature--every man for himself...

And what's with the colors--white, black, yellow, brown or red?

We are Americans first!

 

[dWiz]

I am a first year dental student and the things I've been hearing over the past few days, both in my class and on this forum, shock me. As future health care providers, should we not have at least some level of empathy? I'm learning there are two types of dental students/dentists. One that is in this field because they really do care about people and feel this is a good way to improve the lives of others, and another that is in it because it is a lucrative field with good working hours. Isn't that honestly the main difference between (for lack of better terms) Liberals and Conservatives? Liberals put the concerns of others above themselves, whereas Conservatives always put themselves first. There comes a time when we have to look through all the BS and get to the facts. The conservative party, President Bush's party is the party of fear, oppression, war, and yes, racism. Many will deny this, but maybe its time for some of you on the right to sit down and do some serious soul-searching. Can you honestly say that you wouldn't have a different opinion on this subject if the majority of people in NO were white? It saddens me that in the year 2005 we still have so much ignorance, and this forum is for supposedly educated people. I guess my point here is that we all come from very diverse backgrounds, and I just wish that some of you would try to be a little more understanding of other peoples' situations, and a little less judgmental.

One more thing, tx oms, how are we to believe that you are a compassionate person when you sign all of your posts with a misogynistic joke?

my feelings exactly.....most of the ppl on these forums do lack compassion or seem to show no compassion and there "IN" dental school....and when i'm filling out forms and there asking questions like "what have u done to help the less fortunate" ,"what activities do you do to help your community"etc, what the hell does that matter? Some of these students are probably even on the admission commitees and there making sarcastic comments trying to be funny.....it probably wouldn't be that funny if it was them and their families in a similar situation

 

[ItsGavinC]

The conservative party, President Bush's party is the party of fear, oppression, war, and yes, racism. Many will deny this, but maybe its time for some of you on the right to sit down and do some serious soul-searching. Can you honestly say that you wouldn't have a different opinion on this subject if the majority of people in NO were white?

I don't know what others will say, but I can honestly say that yes, my opinion would be no different. To be honest, I'm not sure what race has to do with this at all.

I called Biloxi, MS home for many years (my father was stationed at the Air Force base there). I loved New Orleans. Some of my fondest memories from that period in my life (late junior high/early high school) are of the Gulf and it's associated cities.

MY viewpoints on this have nothing to do with race. In my opinion, anybody who makes this out to be a racial issue is taking a terrible situation and twisting it to conform to their own political needs. I don't see anything racial about it. I don't see black people looting and white people "finding" food. I simply see people affected by a terrible tragedy.

 

[ItsGavinC]

atleast bill clinton didn't kill anyone because of stupidity, like your fellow texan "W".

Wow, huge strokes from a broad brush. I'm curious how stupidity has killed anybody, in this situation.

 

[dWiz]

Bush is being criticized for a delayed response to a huge disaster that cost many lives. If racism cannot explain this, then it is quite obvious that the only explanation is how completely incompetent bush is. He is not up to the job of being President. He cannot keep Americans safe. Anyone who voted for him last November because of national security was duped. In fact, they are much less safe.

 

[psiyung]

Bush is being criticized for a delayed response to a huge disaster that cost many lives. If racism cannot explain this, then it is quite obvious that the only explanation is how completely incompetent bush is. He is not up to the job of being President. He cannot keep Americans safe. Anyone who voted for him last November because of national security was duped. In fact, they are much less safe.

Why are you turning this into a national security issue, and how would Kerry (given the situation in Iraq) be any different regarding this irrelevent matter than Bush?

 

[five05]

To be honest, I'm not sure what race has to do with this at all.

MY viewpoints on this have nothing to do with race. In my opinion, anybody who makes this out to be a racial issue is taking a terrible situation and twisting it to conform to their own political needs. I don't see anything racial about it. I don't see black people looting and white people "finding" food. I simply see people affected by a terrible tragedy.

The reason I came here to say something about this is I kept finding myself in conversations with other dental students about this tragedy. And the thing I kept hearing back from many of my "colleagues" which has been echoed on this board is that on one hand this is a terrible tragedy and they all feel sorry for the people of NO. However on the other hand, what has happened to them is somehow their fault for not leaving, and besides look at how they're all behaving...like a bunch of animals. Now when I hear things like this from so-called intelligent people, it makes me really concerned about the future of our country. Anyone with any sense would know that it was nearly impossible for many of the people of NO to get out of there in time. Whether it be based on lack of money, transportation, health, or just not wanting to leave other family members behind.

Now you want to talk about what President Bush (and the rest of the government) could have done to help? Why not send every bus they could get their hands on to New Orleans BEFORE the hurricane hit, instead of waiting until it was too late, and the roads were all flooded. Also, maybe it wasn't such a great idea to cut the budget for upgrading and maintaining the levees in a city that solely depends on their integrity. The President can claim all he wants that we could have never expected the levees to break, however, when you are told by the experts that they can only withstand a category 3 hurricane, and logic would tell us that eventually a category four or five is going to hit the area AND you cut the funding for making the levees stronger, then WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?

One more point back to the racial thing, and then I'll stop. The Rev. Jesse Jackson was on t.v. the other day, and however you may feel about him he made a point that I feel is very true. He stated (and I'm paraphrasing) that throughout history our country has had a high tolerance for black pain. From the beginning of slavery, to Jim Crow south to people getting hosed and dogs stuck on them during the struggle for civil rights, white Americans as a whole have tolerated a lot of really horrible acts perpetrated on black Americans. Now many of you may be quick to disagree with this, saying that all that was in the past and things are different now, but are they really? Look at the painfully high numbers of African-Americans that are murdered every day and no one seems to care, as long as, "its not in my neighborhood." It's easy for many white Americans to see all of those poor, black faces and feel just a little bit unattached from their suffering. This is what I've experienced in my dental class, and on this forum, and I feel like that is a real shame.

 

[aphistis]

Bush is being criticized for a delayed response to a huge disaster that cost many lives. If racism cannot explain this, then it is quite obvious that the only explanation is how completely incompetent bush is. He is not up to the job of being President. He cannot keep Americans safe. Anyone who voted for him last November because of national security was duped. In fact, they are much less safe.

Quite obvious to you, maybe. You're creating an artificial either/or, which is a major (and basic) logic flaw.

 

[aphistis]

Anyone with any sense would know that it was nearly impossible for many of the people of NO to get out of there in time. Whether it be based on lack of money, transportation, health, or just not wanting to leave other family members behind.

Now you want to talk about what President Bush (and the rest of the government) could have done to help? Why not send every bus they could get their hands on to New Orleans BEFORE the hurricane hit, instead of waiting until it was too late, and the roads were all flooded.

To borrow from another SDNer, "They didn't evacuate b/c no one from congress knocked on their door with a bouquet of flowers and an invitation for a free ride out." Buses wouldn't have done any good unless people had boarded them.

Also, maybe it wasn't such a great idea to cut the budget for upgrading and maintaining the levees in a city that solely depends on their integrity. The President can claim all he wants that we could have never expected the levees to break, however, when you are told by the experts that they can only withstand a category 3 hurricane, and logic would tell us that eventually a category four or five is going to hit the area AND you cut the funding for making the levees stronger, then WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?

OK, but what *you're* ignoring is that Bush didn't build the faulty levees, nor is he the only president under which they haven't been fixed. Either other presidents refused funding the same way as Bush, or they granted the funding and NO city officials squandered it on other expenses. Sorry we keep interrupting the hate-fest; but your arguments, if you'll pardon the expression, aren't holding water.

 

[five05]

To borrow from another SDNer, "They didn't evacuate b/c no one from congress knocked on their door with a bouquet of flowers and an invitation for a free ride out." Buses wouldn't have done any good unless people had boarded them.

I'm sorry, but that’s a really absurd thing to say.

OK, but what *you're* ignoring is that Bush didn't build the faulty levees, nor is he the only president under which they haven't been fixed. Either other presidents refused funding the same way as Bush, or they granted the funding and NO city officials squandered it on other expenses. Sorry we keep interrupting the hate-fest; but your arguments, if you'll pardon the expression, aren't holding water.

As far as that one goes, once again I apologize, however you're completely wrong about this. Maybe this article from the Penisto Rewiew will shed some light on the situation for you:

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2005/08/31/bush-diverted-levee-building-funds-to-iraq

The point is that President Bush could have done something here and chose not to. If that doesn’t demonstrate responsibility specifically pointed at him, I'm not sure what does.

 

[jreth]

Isn't that honestly the main difference between (for lack of better terms) Liberals and Conservatives? Liberals put the concerns of others above themselves, whereas Conservatives always put themselves first.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1222/p15s01-ussc.htm

Dont fall into that trap, 505! I like analogies myself. You would scoff at my idea to go into Yosemite and feed ALL the deer from my car. When I remind you that a blizzard is comming next week and that most won't make it through, you correct me by saying that "you are taking away their natural incentive to survive!"

I hate to cross-reference animals to humans, but on a macro-scale, that's what Liberals like to do! They love to give. Worse, it's usually other people's money!

505, go back and read the failure of welfare-reform. . . . oh wait, that was a success!! why? because you MADE people accountable and made them survive on their own. If you disagree, then I don't know what to say??

The conservative party, President Bush's party is the party of fear, oppression, war, and yes, racism. Many will deny this, but maybe its time for some of you on the right to sit down and do some serious soul-searching.

What a tired statement. You go to the next Iraqi congressional session and report back after.

It saddens me that in the year 2005 we still have so much ignorance

agreed. can you give me your opinion on the economic principles of price-gouging during natural disasters? $10 to your favorite charity if you get it right!

I just wish that some of you would try to be a little more understanding of other peoples' situations,

and I hope you can understand that conservatives (not all of course) have compassion just like you . . . just sometimes it takes different forms!

cheers, good luck,

JR

 

[puncho]

Bush is being criticized for a delayed response to a huge disaster that cost many lives. If racism cannot explain this, then it is quite obvious that the only explanation is how completely incompetent bush is. He is not up to the job of being President. He cannot keep Americans safe. Anyone who voted for him last November because of national security was duped. In fact, they are much less safe.

I suggest you read my posts on page 2 before criticizing Bush again. You're placing the blame on Bush, and tho I agree he has some blame, most of it lies within the Louisiana state government.

BTW, I am no fan of Bush myself, but I do try to logically think things out before throwing accusations around (which you seem to be doing).

edit: five, about the buses thing, please read my posts too. Bush called for a evacuation before the storm hit, Nagin didn't order one until it was much too late.

 

[five05]

Jreth:

Welfare-reform a success?
The problem with Liberals is they like to give?
Let the deer die?

Sounds like Social Darwinism to me...

 

[ItsGavinC]

Bush is being criticized for a delayed response to a huge disaster that cost many lives. If racism cannot explain this, then it is quite obvious that the only explanation is how completely incompetent bush is.

So to explain the situation, you're giving us only two options to choose from. How convenient.

It probably comes to a shock to you that the President of the United States doesn't make disaster plans for states or cities. Why do you think there are elected local officials?

I appreciate how you've completely ignored those who are actually in charge of the situation and shoveled the blame to those that go against your politics. Nothing would have been any different if somebody else had been in office. The elected officials in LA and New Orleans would have still had no idea how to handle a natural disaster of this magnitude.

 

[aphistis]

I'm sorry, but that’s a really absurd thing to say.




As far as that one goes, once again I apologize, however you're completely wrong about this. Maybe this article from the Penisto Rewiew will shed some light on the situation for you:

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2005/08/31/bush-diverted-levee-building-funds-to-iraq

The point is that President Bush could have done something here and chose not to. If that doesn’t demonstrate responsibility specifically pointed at him, I'm not sure what does.

That article is so heavily biased & distorted that I'd have to monopolize the thread taking it apart. Once upon a time I'd have been happy to, but that's not my place anymore. If you don't see its numerous flaws...well, happy reading.

 

[aphistis]

As an additional thought, this is a time for everyone who supported John Kerry last fall to get down on your knees and thank God he didn't win. To borrow from a blog comment I made to a friend, "had Kerry won, his administration would be too new to have made the major changes that could've prevented this, and this could become the defining event of a failed Presidency. As it is, you've got something else you can blame Bush for."

 

[ItsGavinC]

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2005/08/31/bush-diverted-levee-building-funds-to-iraq

The point is that President Bush could have done something here and chose not to. If that doesn’t demonstrate responsibility specifically pointed at him, I'm not sure what does.

'

First, nice source. I can pull out sources that say the exact opposite. Internet blogs are everywhere. That doesn't make them legitimate. That blog calls itself a "liberal news and opinion site" (http://www.pensitoreview.com/category/about-us/).

Geez, I wonder if we'll get liberal news and opinions from them. I wonder.

But now we're comparing apples to oranges. You and your fellow anti-Bu****es are claiming he's responsible for deaths due to poor response *following* the tragedy, and you are also claiming he's responsible for deaths *prior* to the tragedy actually occuring. Neither of those arguments hold any value in a logical debate.

Bush isn't responsible for New Orleans. He isn't the mayor. He isn't the chief of police. He isn't the NO Homeland Security Director. He isn't the Governor. He isn't the Lt. Governer. He isn't the head of the Lousiana FEMA division. Bush doesn't create evacuation plans. He's the chain of command when all local and regional methods have failed.

 

[jreth]

Jreth:

Welfare-reform a success?
The problem with Liberals is they like to give?
Let the deer die?

Sounds like Social Darwinism to me...

did you miss the entire point? i hate to get combative here, but you're missing the ship here!

my post had a point . . . and I'll add another $10 to my original $10 if you can just summarize what I actually said. To quote Dennis Prager: "I prefer CLARITY to AGREEMENT" . . .

JR

BTW: are you saying it's poor policy to not feed deer from your car?

 

[dWiz]

'

Bush isn't responsible for New Orleans. He isn't the mayor. He isn't the chief of police. He isn't the NO Homeland Security Director. He isn't the Governor. He isn't the Lt. Governer. He isn't the head of the Lousiana FEMA division. Bush doesn't create evacuation plans.

yeah, he's pretty much nothing,,,,

[edited by aphistis]

 

[adamlc18]

I am tired of hearing how people think this is Bush's fault when the state government is responsible for these matters first. I pulled the following of off this thread http://www.dentaltown.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=55152&sessionID={DFE71B9F-60E0-43DB-A458-8B41F23F30AA} on Dentaltown.

§ 5170. PROCEDURE FOR DECLARATION {Sec. 401}

All requests for a declaration by the President that a major disaster exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State.

http://www.fema.gov/library/stafact.shtm#sec401
It was only AFTER George Bush called and urged evacuation of New Orleans did Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin act. This was last Saturday. He cared more for the people of New Orleans than they did.

"Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding."

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louis...s-18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana

No one mobilized the school and NORTA buses to evcauate the poor. That was the DIRECT responsibility of the Mayor of New Orleans and Governor of Louisiana.

The levees broke on Tuesday and the rest is history. Evacuation of the Superdome should have begun the moment the levees broke. Neither the Mayor nor the Governor responded properly.

 

[puncho]

I agree adam, and I posted likewise (I don't think dwiz or five05 read it tho).

I think DWiz hasn't read enough and is just blindly accusing bush. That was my first gut response as well, but as I read further into the problem, I realized that much of the blame should be put elsewhere.

 

[smkoepke]

To borrow from another SDNer, "They didn't evacuate b/c no one from congress knocked on their door with a bouquet of flowers and an invitation for a free ride out." Buses wouldn't have done any good unless people had boarded them.



OK, but what *you're* ignoring is that Bush didn't build the faulty levees, nor is he the only president under which they haven't been fixed. Either other presidents refused funding the same way as Bush, or they granted the funding and NO city officials squandered it on other expenses. Sorry we keep interrupting the hate-fest; but your arguments, if you'll pardon the expression, aren't holding water.

sorry, but her argument about the levees does hold water. Bush has been in office for 5 years now and the responsibility for any maintenance issues should have been addressed by now from his administration. If Clinton were in office when the hurrican hit or Kerry, it would be their fault for not taking care of it. This is kind of like when a new CEO takes over at a company and knows that there are unsafe working conditions within his/her organization, it then becomes that leaders responsibility to take action. Failure to do so and the liability lies with the person in charge at the time. Having said that, some blame does fall upon the local government, however in my view Bush and FEMA were so woefully unprepared and negligent that it becomes hard not to want to blame them completely. What the heck was the purpose of pouring all that money into "homeland security" and FEMA anyway if they are just going to try to pass the buck after the s##t hits the fan?

 

[Firm]

AP issued a statement confirming that the photographer Dave Martin saw them loot.

The second picture, zoomed out, contains many other people (black and white) with food items floating next to them, which is how they justify the use of "finding."

Do you really believe the BS that you type? If it's not yours it's not yours. Who cares if some people want t.v.'s or nike's, it's not like those companies (walmart,etc.)were going to be able to sell that stuff anyway, or that those people will be able to leave N.O. with it. Let them have it, it's just material things.

 

[aphistis]

sorry, but her argument about the levees does hold water. Bush has been in office for 5 years now and the responsibility for any maintenance issues should have been addressed by now from his administration. If Clinton were in office when the hurrican hit or Kerry, it would be their fault for not taking care of it. This is kind of like when a new CEO takes over at a company and knows that there are unsafe working conditions within his/her organization, it then becomes that leaders responsibility to take action. Failure to do so and the liability lies with the person in charge at the time. Having said that, some blame does fall upon the local government, however in my view Bush and FEMA were so woefully unprepared and negligent that it becomes hard not to want to blame them completely. What the heck was the purpose of pouring all that money into "homeland security" and FEMA anyway if they are just going to try to pass the buck after the s##t hits the fan?

In that case, I blame Abraham Lincoln for the Civil War, Woodrow Wilson for the sinking of the Lusitania and subsequent US involvement in WWI, FDR for the Great Depression, Ronald Reagan for the Challenger explosion, and Bill Clinton for the Columbine school shooting.

 

[Jaws]

The conservative party, President Bush's party is the party of fear, oppression, war, and yes, racism.

I love hearing how the Republican Party is the “racist party.” This goes against the fact that George W Bush has appointed more women and minorities to Cabinet positions than Bill Clinton did (and, I should mention, without the media “Bru-hah-hah” that Clinton required). Oh, wait…I forgot, when a Democrat does that, they are doing “the right thing,” but when a Republican does that, that are “pandering to the minorities.”

Are there people who are racist in the Republican Party? There are a few, but none in positions of power in today’s government. And before the Democrats begin to throw stones, they should remember that their most senior member of the Senate, Robert Byrd (who, by the way is expected to announce his candidacy for a ninth-term on Wednesday), was a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

Isn’t it ironic that the two African-Americans most likely to be elected President at this time (Colin Powell and Condi Rice) are both members of a party that hates black people? Or isn’t it about time that the left realizes that this is an old attack that is no longer relevant?

Isn't that honestly the main difference between (for lack of better terms) Liberals and Conservatives? Liberals put the concerns of others above themselves, whereas Conservatives always put themselves first.

If this were true, people like Michael Moore, Al Franken and Barbara Streisand would get off of their duffs, come down from their palatial estates and give every cent they own to the poor. This has not happened. In fact, I doubt that you will see many of the major liberal celebrities lifting a finger to help a bunch of people from “Red States.”

On the other hand, it is the states that make up “Bush Country” that are doing the most to help the refugees of this disaster. They have opened their homes to these people, donating to aid agencies and providing care.

 

[jreth]

sorry, but her argument about the levees does hold water. Bush has been in office for 5 years now and the responsibility for any maintenance issues should have been addressed by now from his administration. If Clinton were in office when the hurrican hit or Kerry, it would be their fault for not taking care of it. This is kind of like when a new CEO takes over at a company and knows that there are unsafe working conditions within his/her organization, it then becomes that leaders responsibility to take action. Failure to do so and the liability lies with the person in charge at the time. Having said that, some blame does fall upon the local government, however in my view Bush and FEMA were so woefully unprepared and negligent that it becomes hard not to want to blame them completely. What the heck was the purpose of pouring all that money into "homeland security" and FEMA anyway if they are just going to try to pass the buck after the s##t hits the fan?

argument taken. I think it's fair to look at.

I'm reading an article right now that has my full attention (except to pass it here)

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000129.html

Hope you all enjoy, I think it boils down like he says: 2 races in the world: the good and the bad.

now, where did i put that perio book anyways . . .

JR

 

[dWiz]

It probably comes to a shock to you that the President of the United States doesn't make disaster plans for states or cities. Why do you think there are elected local officials?

when you say that its not bush's responsibility to respond to this situation, I dont think you understand the magnitude of this disaster...its comparable to 9/11 in terms of damage done...and I guess it wasn't the president's job to respond to that, he should've just let the mayor of new york that juliani guy do something to fix the situation right? I mean he's president, he has better things to do, like playing guitar and vacationing in his ranch

 

[jreth]

when you say that its not bush's responsibility to respond to this situation, I dont think you understand the magnitude of this disaster...its comparable to 9/11 in terms of damage done...and I guess it wasn't the president's job to respond to that, he should've just let the mayor of new york that juliani guy do something to fix the situation right? I mean he's president, he has better things to do, like playing guitar and vacationing in his ranch

common Wiz, you cant be serious. i dont think anyone knew what exactly would have happened. if the levies held, then you and i would be cuttin class II's right now!

Can you tell me who was running up the twin tower stair-cases? Bingo, FDNY and NYPD. Not the Feds.

I know you love to put Bush at the head of your bashing list. He probably should bear some explanation of his FEMA dude in this . . . but to lay this at his feet is hard to handle.

Read that article I linked to. Compare Gulliani on 9/11 w/ Niger the other day whimpering and crying to the Feds. Common man, suck it up and get some **** done!! Dont whimper to the cameras. Hell, I don't blame his police force for running when they did . . . their boss was crying on camera!!

 

[ItsGavinC]

Thanks for all the posts. This thread and the other one about Katrina were left open in order to facilitiate some discussion and allow dental students to blow off some steam.

If you'd like to continue the discussion, please visit the Lounge forums, where you'll find a plethora of threads on this subject.

Once again, thanks for all of the differing viewpoints. As always it's nice to see opinions that run the spectrum, and it's nice to know that we're all colleagues.