The HIRING FREEZE!!!

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
B

blueclassring

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Messages
540
Reaction score
14
Part of the Southwest are undergoing hiring freezes in pharmacy due to the economy. What's going on in your part of the country???
Members don't see this ad.
 
which part of the southwest?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
blueclassring said:
Part of the Southwest are undergoing hiring freezes in pharmacy due to the economy. What's going on in your part of the country???
Click to expand...


Admissions are down, people are losing insurance, cant affored elective surgeries, cant afford prescription medications....what do you expect. OF course hospitals and businesses are going to tighten their belts and try and get by with as little as possible. I have been at hospitals that were on hiring freezes before the bad economy. It happens. My current hospital was on a freeze, and now we are hiring people again. Just hired 3 new pharmacists recently.
 
I was just at a hosptal where the entire hospital took a 10% reduction in hours for hourly employees and 10% reduction in salaries for salaried folks..

I usually don't agree with this type of practice...but times are tough.
 
ItsOverZyvox said:
I was just at a hosptal where the entire hospital took a 10% reduction in hours for hourly employees and 10% reduction in salaries for salaried folks..

I usually don't agree with this type of practice...but times are tough.
Click to expand...


this is espeicially true at smaller, rural hospitals. I know an OBGY who has been asked to take a pay cut, and increase patient load. She is seroiusly hurting for cash right. Who would of thought that.
 
bigpharmD said:
this is espeicially true at smaller, rural hospitals. I know an OBGY who has been asked to take a pay cut, and increase patient load. She is seroiusly hurting for cash right. Who would of thought that.
Click to expand...

Why would an OBGY be an employee of the hospital???
 
MountainPharmD said:
Wow....another reason to work retail. I just got a raise.
Click to expand...

You do know I don't work for a hospital...

and of course what happens at one hospital means it's across the board.. [/sarcasm]
 
Can anyone please tell me about working as a pharmacist in UCI (University of California in Irvine)? I am interested to know about how friendly the people are there and how it would be to work as a pharmacist in the hospital there. Thanks a bunch.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I can't speak for a region, but the district I am in is Froze for pharmacists, techs are in demand though. Right now the district is so desperate to get hours for the relief pharmacists that they are threatening to not pay-out for unused sick leave/vacation at the end of the year thereby forcing pharmacists to use it.
 
Our district doesn't have enough extra hours for the full time floater pharmacists. And we get calls from other districts looking for hours right now, but we don't have anything open.
 
Same here. Our floaters are not getting enough hours (25 percent less). There is a hiring freeze in our company except for interns, besides that, we also have a waiting list of pharmacists who wants to relocate here. The crappy part is that we signed on 60 new graduates for this year (people who have interned with the company). I have no idea where they are going to be placed.

Economy or not, I have a feeling that this will be the norm. That is why I emphasize that there is no shortage of pharmacists. For new graduates, there might still be a job for them in a few years, but with less (30 instead of 40) hours than we have been seeing. This means they will be making 80k instead of 120k...
 
Last edited:
bigpharmD said:
Admissions are down, people are losing insurance, cant affored elective surgeries, cant afford prescription medications....what do you expect. OF course hospitals and businesses are going to tighten their belts and try and get by with as little as possible. I have been at hospitals that were on hiring freezes before the bad economy. It happens. My current hospital was on a freeze, and now we are hiring people again. Just hired 3 new pharmacists recently.
Click to expand...

Admissions are down--as in pharmacy school admissions?

Economy or not, I have a feeling that this will be the norm. That is why I emphasize that there is no shortage of pharmacists. I think for new graduates, there might still be a job for them in a few years but with 30 hours instead of the 40 hours plus contracts that we have been seeing. That means they might be making 80k instead of 120k...
Click to expand...

I wish you wouldn't say stuff like that. I'm looking at 150 grand in loans when I graduate in 2012--so uh this "feeling" is kinda making me wanna throw up right now. Do you have any facts/stats to back up this claim?
 
timbutt2 said:
Admissions are down--as in pharmacy school admissions?



I wish you wouldn't say stuff like that. I'm looking at 150 grand in loans when I graduate in 2012--so uh this "feeling" is kinda making me wanna throw up right now. Do you have any facts/stats to back up this claim?
Click to expand...

the whole idea of a long term surplus of pharmacists is ridiculous

I recommend looking for some articles from reputable sources on google or news sites and taking all the evidence into consideration for yourself. I agree, there are way too many doom and gloom posters on here. It seems like there are a lot, but if you look closely, you'll notice it's always the same two or three people, and most of them are either bitter about not being able to find an "awesome" job in a location like NYC or orange county.

The facts are that prescriptions are going up at such a rapid rate, and the elderly population is going up at such a rapid rate, that there is never going to be an end to the demand for pharmacists. Not to mention the fact that there is going to be a general shortage of all skilled labor when the baby boomers retire, this will also hit pharmacists in particular, as the economic incentives for people to go into the field have been slow to catch up to the impending shortage (ie, a lot of pharmacists are old). What about the fact that the field is more and more filled with women ?? (whereas before it was almost all men), many of whom are ultimately looking only for part time work. very few of the pharmacy students and newly graduated pharmacists in my circle of friends are intending on working full time for their careers, believe it or not.

The fact is also that there *are* jobs available in Los Angeles and New York City.

I for one think it's absurd that people are acting like the world is ending -- we're in the midst of the worst set of layoffs and downsizing in corporate history since the 1930s, and people are complaining because there are only a few thousand job openings for them to make 6 figures?? What the hell?

But take my words with a grain of salt. I enjoy working in retail and plan to work there until i die. I also will have 180k of loans when all is said and done.
 
Last edited:
Ross434 said:
the whole idea of a surplus of pharmacists is ridiculous

I recommend looking for some articles from reputable sources on google or news sites and taking all the evidence into consideration for yourself. I agree, there are way too many doom and gloom posters on here. It seems like there are a lot, but if you look closely, you'll notice it's always the same two or three people, and most of them are either bitter about not being able to find an "awesome" job in a location like NYC or orange county.

The facts are that prescriptions are going up at such a rapid rate, and the elderly population is going up at such a rapid rate, that there is never going to be an end to the demand for pharmacists. Not to mention the fact that there is going to be a general shortage of all skilled labor when the baby boomers retire, this will also hit pharmacists in particular, as the economic incentives for people to go into the field have been slow to catch up to the impending shortage (ie, a lot of pharmacists are old).

The fact is also that there *are* jobs available in Los Angeles and New York City.

I for one think it's absurd that people are acting like the world is ending -- we're in the midst of the worst set of layoffs and downsizing in corporate history since the 1930s, and people are complaining because there are only a few thousand job openings for them to make 6 figures?? What the hell?

But take my words with a grain of salt. I enjoy working in retail and plan to work there until i die. I also will have 180k of loans when all is said and done.
Click to expand...

News and reputable should be def be taken as a grain-of-salt. News is essentially gossip - To be honest - I trust the reports of the people on this forum a lot more than the media.

When I hear of freezes in WV, NJ, Boston, Cali - then you start to believe that the highly populated areas with pharmacy schools a plenty are no longer high demand ares. There are still plenty of jobs out there - but the demand is certainly changing in light of this economic downturn.
 
aboveliquidice said:
News and reputable should be def be taken as a grain-of-salt. News is essentially gossip - To be honest - I trust the reports of the people on this forum a lot more than the media.

When I hear of freezes in WV, NJ, Boston, Cali - then you start to believe that the highly populated areas with pharmacy schools a plenty are no longer high demand ares. There are still plenty of jobs out there - but the demand is certainly changing in light of this economic downturn.
Click to expand...

I was referring more to the academic papers out there by pharmds and phds who know their way around the profession and or labor markets. I agree however it is wise to question the media thoroughly and often.
 
Ross434 said:
I was referring more to the academic papers out there by pharmds and phds who know their way around the profession
Click to expand...


:smuggrin::smuggrin:

You can't be serious.. PharmDs and PhDs in the academia and or who produce those academic journals are furthest removed from the reality of real practice of pharmacy and current market situation.
 
Last edited:
ItsOverZyvox said:
:smuggrin::smuggrin:

You can't be serious.. PharmDs and PhDs in the academia and or who produce those academic journals are furthest removed from the reality of real practice of pharmacy and current market situation.
Click to expand...


Yeah their pay check relies on you. They will be the first to tell you about a shortage.
 
ItsOverZyvox said:
:smuggrin::smuggrin:

You can't be serious.. PharmDs and PhDs in the academia and or who produce those academic journals are furthest removed from the reality of real practice of pharmacy and current market situation.
Click to expand...
Seconded, thirded, and so on. Another problem with academic research is that it is outdated by the time it's published, and also it always looks backwards, even if they try to look forward... They look at past trends, and often ignore the upcoming shocks.

I like to remind my students that the only thing protecting pharmacists' jobs and salaries is a flimsy little law that says that every prescription must be checked by a pharmacist and dispensed in a presence of a pharmacist. Take that law down (and there are some scenarios as to why that could happen, though I think it is highly unlikely in the near term) - and you have thousands of pharmacists out of jobs, and the salaries going significantly down. That helps put things in perspective, that future, while it isn't doom and gloom, is not necessariliy rosy, and it's always better to be prepared for the worst-case scenario.
 
Hels2007 said:
Seconded, thirded, and so on. Another problem with academic research is that it is outdated by the time it's published, and also it always looks backwards, even if they try to look forward... They look at past trends, and often ignore the upcoming shocks.

I like to remind my students that the only thing protecting pharmacists' jobs and salaries is a flimsy little law that says that every prescription must be checked by a pharmacist and dispensed in a presence of a pharmacist. Take that law down (and there are some scenarios as to why that could happen, though I think it is highly unlikely in the near term) - and you have thousands of pharmacists out of jobs, and the salaries going significantly down. That helps put things in perspective, that future, while it isn't doom and gloom, is not necessariliy rosy, and it's always better to be prepared for the worst-case scenario.
Click to expand...

That will never happen. There will always be checks and balances. That would be such a major undertaking. WE will have prescribing rights before that happens.
 
Ross434 said:
the whole idea of a long term surplus of pharmacists is ridiculous

I recommend looking for some articles from reputable sources on google or news sites and taking all the evidence into consideration for yourself. I agree, there are way too many doom and gloom posters on here. It seems like there are a lot, but if you look closely, you'll notice it's always the same two or three people, and most of them are either bitter about not being able to find an "awesome" job in a location like NYC or orange county.

The facts are that prescriptions are going up at such a rapid rate, and the elderly population is going up at such a rapid rate, that there is never going to be an end to the demand for pharmacists. Not to mention the fact that there is going to be a general shortage of all skilled labor when the baby boomers retire, this will also hit pharmacists in particular, as the economic incentives for people to go into the field have been slow to catch up to the impending shortage (ie, a lot of pharmacists are old). What about the fact that the field is more and more filled with women ?? (whereas before it was almost all men), many of whom are ultimately looking only for part time work. very few of the pharmacy students and newly graduated pharmacists in my circle of friends are intending on working full time for their careers, believe it or not.

The fact is also that there *are* jobs available in Los Angeles and New York City.

I for one think it's absurd that people are acting like the world is ending -- we're in the midst of the worst set of layoffs and downsizing in corporate history since the 1930s, and people are complaining because there are only a few thousand job openings for them to make 6 figures?? What the hell?

But take my words with a grain of salt. I enjoy working in retail and plan to work there until i die. I also will have 180k of loans when all is said and done.
Click to expand...

Young Ross,

This isn't a gloom and doom. The points you make are legit.. female dominated profession, aging boomers etc. However, there are reasons why everyone, not just pharmacists should be concerned.

  • We're heading into the economic depression worse than the great depression of 1929 and the recovery will be a long term.. 2020+
  • The economic boom rides the wave of series of bubbles, stock market, real estate, and commodities. Unfortunately..all those 3 bubbles converged and peaked at the same time and if you profitted from it, good for you. But if not, they're in the process of bursting right now and this trend will likely to continue until 2012 to 2013. Some predict Dow will go below 4,000 and real estate value to decline additional 40 to 50%.. good time to buy in 4 years.
  • Two major contributing factors to economic boom are demographics and technololgy.. this is especially important to pharmacy because technology dictates how we service our demographics. Major players in the pharmacy retail industry aren't messing around. You are going to see them get mean and lean in upcoming years. They're preparing to provide more service with less labor cost. And they will look to technology to accomplish this.. ie, mail order facility where 1 pharmacist cranking out thousands of verifications per day.
Just 10 years ago, there were about 70 pharmacy schools...now we have around 100 with more openings. Let me tell you about early to mid 90's. There weren't very many pharmacy jobs. We never heard of "sign on bonus" when I was coming out of pharmacy school. In 1995, the major retail player for our region was Savon Pharmacy. They took 13 from our class... Long's took about 5... Navy took 1 of us.. I think Walmart took 2 of us. On our graduation day, majority of my class didn't have a job lined up. 50 of us went into residency... many of them because there really weren't very many jobs and in order to get a hospital job, residency was almost required.

Then in 1996, Walgreens announced the expansion. And Pharmacy rode the Wag's expansion boom. This is what caused the pharmacist shortage.
The reason for this was for Wags to get into real estate market and to service upcoming baby boomer's prescription boom.

This is why it's important to studey and evaluate what Wags, CVS, and the big players are doing. They will cut labor cost. And the biggest labor cost? Pharmacist. And there is no doubt about it..hiring freeze is occuring everywhere I see. I'm seeing pharmacists float a lot more than before. I'm seeing floaters losing hours.

Now, how's Walgreen's expansion plan for the future? Will it keep the same pace as before? Even then, with additional PharmDs cranking out from 100+ schools, it's not realistic to expect the shortage of pharmacist will persist.

Here are counterpoints:

  • Boomers will take more drugs but many of those are maintenance drugs which will be filled by central fill station...and Boomer's script count peak will occur when they start to die off... and there will be less demand for prescriptions.
  • Female pharmacists only want part time work? You'd hope so...but if they're taking about $120,000+ student loans, I think they'll be working full time for a while.
My point? Watch Wags and CVS closely for their future plans. The pharmacist shortage as we knew is over.
 
Ross434 said:
I was referring more to the academic papers out there by pharmds and phds who know their way around the profession and or labor markets. I agree however it is wise to question the media thoroughly and often.
Click to expand...

Yes, the people who havent practiced pharmacy for a while. As a phd would know what the job market is like for a pharmD.

You are literally hearing it from people who have just graduated and came into the job market. We are not talking about the future. We are talking about right now.

Everything that we said has already happened and relates to the present scenario. Just look at monster.com or rx career center. There is almost no openings for new pharmacists position except by health professional staffing agencies for NYC area.
 
ItsOverZyvox said:
Young Ross,

This isn't a gloom and doom. The points you make are legit.. female dominated profession, aging boomers etc. However, there are reasons why everyone, not just pharmacists should be concerned.

  • We're heading into the economic depression worse than the great depression of 1929 and the recovery will be a long term.. 2020+
  • The economic boom rides the wave of series of bubbles, stock market, real estate, and commodities. Unfortunately..all those 3 bubbles converged and peaked at the same time and if you profitted from it, good for you. But if not, they're in the process of bursting right now and this trend will likely to continue until 2012 to 2013. Some predict Dow will go below 4,000 and real estate value to decline additional 40 to 50%.. good time to buy in 4 years.
  • Two major contributing factors to economic boom are demographics and technololgy.. this is especially important to pharmacy because technology dictates how we service our demographics. Major players in the pharmacy retail industry aren't messing around. You are going to see them get mean and lean in upcoming years. They're preparing to provide more service with less labor cost. And they will look to technology to accomplish this.. ie, mail order facility where 1 pharmacist cranking out thousands of verifications per day.
Just 10 years ago, there were about 70 pharmacy schools...now we have around 100 with more openings. Let me tell you about early to mid 90's. There weren't very many pharmacy jobs. We never heard of "sign on bonus" when I was coming out of pharmacy school. In 1995, the major retail player for our region was Savon Pharmacy. They took 13 from our class... Long's took about 5... Navy took 1 of us.. I think Walmart took 2 of us. On our graduation day, majority of my class didn't have a job lined up. 50 of us went into residency... many of them because there really weren't very many jobs and in order to get a hospital job, residency was almost required.

Then in 1996, Walgreens announced the expansion. And Pharmacy rode the Wag's expansion boom. This is what caused the pharmacist shortage.
The reason for this was for Wags to get into real estate market and to service upcoming baby boomer's prescription boom.

This is why it's important to studey and evaluate what Wags, CVS, and the big players are doing. They will cut labor cost. And the biggest labor cost? Pharmacist. And there is no doubt about it..hiring freeze is occuring everywhere I see. I'm seeing pharmacists float a lot more than before. I'm seeing floaters losing hours.

Now, how's Walgreen's expansion plan for the future? Will it keep the same pace as before? Even then, with additional PharmDs cranking out from 100+ schools, it's not realistic to expect the shortage of pharmacist will persist.

Here are counterpoints:

  • Boomers will take more drugs but many of those are maintenance drugs which will be filled by central fill station...and Boomer's script count peak will occur when they start to die off... and there will be less demand for prescriptions.
  • Female pharmacists only want part time work? You'd hope so...but if they're taking about $120,000+ student loans, I think they'll be working full time for a while.
My point? Watch Wags and CVS closely for their future plans. The pharmacist shortage as we knew is over.
Click to expand...


We should all go to PA school now!
 
bigpharmD said:
That will never happen. There will always be checks and balances. That would be such a major undertaking. WE will have prescribing rights before that happens.
Click to expand...
And how many pharmacists are needed, even with prescribing rights, if that does happen? It all depends on how much economics and healthcare costs play out... as I said, I don't believe in that happening tomorrow, or in two years, but role of the pharmacist is going to change in the next 30 years, and I very much doubt the number of pharmacist jobs will keep expanding like it has been for the last decade. I think it will shrink before today's students will be ready to retire.

And I wouldn't bargain on prescribing rights that much. How is being able to extend/adjust someone's blood pressure pills going to affect pharmacy? I don't see a dramatic demand for pharmacists as a resul of such provision. And I don't see pharmacists giving a very broad authority, since we are not trained to diagnose, and without it, prescribing rights are of limited use.
 
bigpharmD said:
We should all go to PA school now!
Click to expand...

mmmm, no. In economic condition like this, residency trained and/or clincal/staff pharmacists are too valuable to healthcare organizations.

It's all about streamlining the pharmacy practice to reduct cost.

If you know how to do it...then you'll always have a job. A good job.
 
ItsOverZyvox said:
mmmm, no. In economic condition like this, residency trained and/or clincal/staff pharmacists are too valuable to healthcare organizations.

It's all about streamlining the pharmacy practice to reduct cost.

If you know how to do it...then you'll always have a job. A good job.
Click to expand...


I want to point out that the Pharmd threads are not the only ones that are gloom and doom. Even the gas MDs are talking about this with elective surgeries dramatically dropping. DDS are worried about the pending take over from hygenists. Family practice docs are taking it from every direction. Like zyvox said, we are in uncharted territory in terms of economics right now.
 
Hels2007 said:
Which is why I have skills that are transferable to many other industries/job functions, and can live and work in many different countries. :smuggrin: That expands one's options exponentially. :D
Click to expand...

show off...
 
I'm certainly not a doom and gloom kind of person. I'm just giving you the news from reliable sources.

Several major hospitals in the Phoenix metropolitan area are cutting back on pharmacists hours.(80 hrs to 72 hours) It doesn't look too good for us graduating folks.... The word is out; I keep hearing about hiring freezes in this area because of the saturation in job positions.

Take this with a grain of salt; this hiring phenomenon may be limited to the Phoenix, Arizona.

yeah, I've been on Monster too. The pickins are getting pretty thin. 4 years ago, there were tons of jobs.

Another resource for you California folks is caljobs.ca.gov. Plenty of county jobs but in remote areas. Some areas of Los Angeles have openings though.
 
SpirivaSunrise said:
1994 in Mexico. Imagine waking up and value of currency has gone from 4:1 (pesos:USD) to 7.2:1 in the span of one week.
Click to expand...


Then how come it wasn't cheap for me to go to Cancun in 1996?
 
All economic expansions have to come to an end at one time or another; WAGs and CVS are no longer expanding as I see due to the economy. An increase of pharmacy jobs will not continue forever. Whether there will be a decline in jobs or not is open to debate, but I'm certain that it will end one day.

Ours is the only profession that loves destroying itself.
 
Ross434 said:
are most of these jobs just nonexistant or what??

http://pharmacyjobs.rxcareercenter.com/new_jersey_Pharmacy_Jobs.cfm
Click to expand...

A lot of those jobs are duplicates posted by ABPS...heck some of those jobs I'm really familiar with and it's posted at least twice...but the position has been filled. 74 jobs for the state of NJ and many of those are duplicates. Just in 2008, we closed 3 hospital pharmacies with over 40 hospital pharmacists laid off... I assume most of them were able to find jobs.. yet we have a full load of Rutgers grads coming out this summer, right?
 
Ross434 said:
are most of these jobs just nonexistant or what??

http://pharmacyjobs.rxcareercenter.com/new_jersey_Pharmacy_Jobs.cfm
Click to expand...

Like I said, find me a job on rx career center that is NOT by a staffing agency. Most of the jobs there ARE non existant. They are repeats by the same staffing companies that have been posting it for weeks, months, and even years. The rest are all in rural areas where you have massive farmlands and commute is 2 hours +.

Shortage is when prime locations cant get filled. Prime locations are filled so hence shortage is over. Market balance is when all demand meets supply. We are at that stage now (hence no sign on bonus). The question is where will the trend be if more new recruits are coming in than people are retiring and jobs are being created.
 
I'm pretty sure this is more economy than the jobs just not being there intrinsically. When the economy picks up around 2011, I predict that there will be shortages everywhere again because of the conservative employing strategies employed today as everyone starts to reup the staff level.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
I'm pretty sure this is more economy than the jobs just not being there intrinsically. When the economy picks up around 2011, I predict that there will be shortages everywhere again because of the conservative employing strategies employed today as everyone starts to reup the staff level.
Click to expand...

2013 is when economy starts to rise... and creates another bubble around 2023.. According to Harry Dent.. Yeah I know, he's been wrong before..predicting the DOW to hit 40,000. Yet, he's been right more often than others.
 
ItsOverZyvox said:
2013 is when economy starts to rise... and creates another bubble around 2023.. According to Harry Dent.. Yeah I know, he's been wrong before..predicting the DOW to hit 40,000. Yet, he's been right more often than others.
Click to expand...

lol that guy is an idiot, the 40k DOW figure should be enough by itself to discredit him from speaking publicly about the economy ever again.
 
meister said:
lol that guy is an idiot, the 40k DOW figure should be enough by itself to discredit him from speaking publicly about the economy ever again.
Click to expand...

He overestimated the spending power of the boomers and enthusiasm of the market. But there is a lot of truth in what he says. I firmly believe the real estate collapse he's predicting. Because that's what I've been saying all along..and that is the real estate market will readjust to pre-bubble market value.

I don't think an idiot graduates first in his class then gets an Harvard MBA.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

A
CVS plans massive hiring surge
2
Replies
70
Views
7K
VA77
VA77
R
Hired sight unseen
Replies
32
Views
4K
BidingMyTime
BidingMyTime
S
Recruiters/Hiring agency?
Replies
19
Views
2K
alpha12
A
mentos
2021 new hire overnight pharmacist salaries
Replies
39
Views
7K
Sparda29
Sparda29
Xenophylia
  • Locked
UBER now only hiring pharmacists with PGY2 or higher!!!!
Replies
11
Views
1K
gyngyn
gyngyn
Top