The 2015 US & Canadian Residency Placements for Atlantic Bridge

[glensfalls]

The below link lists the Atlantic Bridge Program's 2015 US & Canadian Residency Placements.

Note the 6 orthopedic placements, 4 neurology, and others out of 111 placements.... pretty impressive

2015/http://www.atlanticbridge.com/medicine/residency/placements/placements-2015/

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[deleted212936]

Is there a matchlist broken down by each school?

 

[torontopharm]

Did any US/Canadian students (or other non-eu foreign students) get their internships in Ireland?

 

[Medstart108]

The below link lists the Atlantic Bridge Program's 2015 US & Canadian Residency Placements.

Note the 6 orthopedic placements, 4 neurology, and others out of 111 placements.... pretty impressive

2015/http://www.atlanticbridge.com/medicine/residency/placements/placements-2015/

I just have to mention that orthopedics actually isn't very competitive in Canada due to low pay and a very large oversupply of doctors. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...ns-face-flat-lining-job-market/article568544/

 

[PhysioMD]

I know I should probably do more research of my own into this, but does living in the UK/Ireland for the 4 or 5 years of med school somehow count towards obtaining a European passport?

 

[Medstart108]

I know I should probably do more research of my own into this, but does living in the UK/Ireland for the 4 or 5 years of med school somehow count towards obtaining a European passport?

It depends on UK vs Ireland. I don't know Ireland but for the UK it doesn't but at the same time you are put on the pathway once you secure a residency spot, which you can only do so if you graduated from a UK medical school.

 

[deleted158872]

Is there a matchlist broken down by each school?

http://nimsa.ca/wp-content/uploads/Match-Talk-2015.pdf

 

[PhysioMD]

Thank you for that link above!

I have a couple of general questions.
As an IMG studying in Ireland, does that basically kill your chances of matching to a top tier hospital network for residency? Say Mass General in Boston? Or UCSF for neurology?

As an IMG have people been able to do electives at top institutions? Say again something with Harvard, or UCSF or Stanford or Mayo Clinic?

I'm getting the impression like it will be extremely hard to get an elective at a more "famous" hospital network even if you are the top student in your class.

 

[PhysioMD]

I also wanted to know, say you don't match but obtain a European Passport - what are the chances of getting into intern year in Ireland or doing residency in the UK? Have people done that?

 

[NevadaNuc]

The below link lists the Atlantic Bridge Program's 2015 US & Canadian Residency Placements.

Note the 6 orthopedic placements, 4 neurology, and others out of 111 placements.... pretty impressive

2015/http://www.atlanticbridge.com/medicine/residency/placements/placements-2015/

Does anyone know how competitive US pathology residencies are coming from an Irish school?

 

[torontopharm]

I also wanted to know, say you don't match but obtain a European Passport - what are the chances of getting into intern year in Ireland or doing residency in the UK? Have people done that?

If you obtain your EU citizenship before you graduate you'll be treated the same as a EU citizen.
But don't go in with the mindset "I'll just marry and get a citizenship before i graduate". I'm not saying you are, but just in case i thought i'd pass along the info. Ireland wants you married for 3 years + living there 1 year (excluding student visa years) before even applying for citizenship. UK expects you to stay in UK for 3-4 years as well before applying for citizenship. If you want somewhat of a "guarantee" of becoming a doctor, go to UK.

 

[Medstart108]

Thank you for that link above!

I have a couple of general questions.
As an IMG studying in Ireland, does that basically kill your chances of matching to a top tier hospital network for residency? Say Mass General in Boston? Or UCSF for neurology?

As an IMG have people been able to do electives at top institutions? Say again something with Harvard, or UCSF or Stanford or Mayo Clinic?

I'm getting the impression like it will be extremely hard to get an elective at a more "famous" hospital network even if you are the top student in your class.

People do match into top tier hospitals but its usually one or two people and its difficult to tell if they were just stellar or they had connections. You can definitely do electives at top institutions, I've known people who've done them. With that being said, i don't believe its necessarily difficult to do an elective at a top institution its just hard to match.

 

[PhysioMD]

http://nimsa.ca/wp-content/uploads/Match-Talk-2015.pdf

Maruko did you study in Ireland?

 

[deleted158872]

Maruko did you study in Ireland?

No, i didn't. I applied for 2016 entrance.

 

[gianniboy]

http://nimsa.ca/wp-content/uploads/Match-Talk-2015.pdf

How accurate is this? I can't imagine Trinity going from a ~90% matching rate in 2014 to a ~30% rate in 2015. Also there are some of the numbers on the site that just don't add up.

 

[Medstart108]

How accurate is this? I can't imagine Trinity going from a ~90% matching rate in 2014 to a ~30% rate in 2015. Also there are some of the numbers on the site that just don't add up.

It is probably pretty accurate. Match rates can really vary since it depends on the cohort that year. Especially when you consider that TCD only had 11 student apply to Canada.

 

[gianniboy]

It is probably pretty accurate. Match rates can really vary since it depends on the cohort that year. Especially when you consider that TCD only had 11 student apply to Canada.

Thanks, I just wanted to be sure. Do you by any chance know what Residency is like in Ireland? I have dual Canadian and EU citizenship so if I were to go there I could match in Ireland fairly easily. I've just been hearing a lot of mixed reviews regarding the quality.

 

[Medstart108]

Thanks, I just wanted to be sure. Do you by any chance know what Residency is like in Ireland? I have dual Canadian and EU citizenship so if I were to go there I could match in Ireland fairly easily. I've just been hearing a lot of mixed reviews regarding the quality.

I wouldn't be able to comment but I would say views are pretty mixed. Lots of irish grads not happy with their own system and looking abroad. Ireland at the end of the day is not a very large country and some highly tertiary services are sent over to the UK.

 

[RCSI student]

Thanks, I just wanted to be sure. Do you by any chance know what Residency is like in Ireland? I have dual Canadian and EU citizenship so if I were to go there I could match in Ireland fairly easily. I've just been hearing a lot of mixed reviews regarding the quality.

Residency in Ireland is very different from North America. In general, it will take you a few years longer to complete an Irish residency (5 years for GP compared to 2 in Canada or 3 in the United States for example.) than a North American one in the same field. What a lot of dual citizens consider is only doing the intern year in Ireland because this will give you a medical registration number (MRN) that will open doors to the rest of Europe and Australia should you be interested in that. Additionally, you can also apply directly to the UK after Irish medical school if you have eu citizenship.

The general consensus in my class regarding North Americans with eu citizenship was to apply mainly to Canada and/or the United States and then to Ireland as a back up. Even if some of them aren't a big fan of the post-med school training system here, its a year of maintaining clinical skills plus a year of income.

 

[gianniboy]

The general consensus in my class regarding North Americans with eu citizenship was to apply mainly to Canada and/or the United States and then to Ireland as a back up. Even if some of them aren't a big fan of the post-med school training system here, its a year of maintaining clinical skills plus a year of income.

Thanks for your reply. What was the biggest factor for them primarily choosing North America over Ireland/UK? Was it solely because residency is longer, or because the quality of training is better in NA?

 

[RCSI student]

Thanks for your reply. What was the biggest factor for them primarily choosing North America over Ireland/UK? Was it solely because residency is longer, or because the quality of training is better in NA?

More often than not the location of family and friends is what pulls people in either direction. After 4 to 6 years most North Americans are ready to go home. You can't really make a blanket generalisation of quality of training for an entire country. There are excellent training schemes in Ireland and some pretty poor ones as well (same is true for North America!). Longer residency may deter a few people however.

 

[deleted718115]

Residency in Ireland is very different from North America. In general, it will take you a few years longer to complete an Irish residency (5 years for GP compared to 2 in Canada or 3 in the United States for example.) than a North American one in the same field. What a lot of dual citizens consider is only doing the intern year in Ireland because this will give you a medical registration number (MRN) that will open doors to the rest of Europe and Australia should you be interested in that. Additionally, you can also apply directly to the UK after Irish medical school if you have eu citizenship.

The general consensus in my class regarding North Americans with eu citizenship was to apply mainly to Canada and/or the United States and then to Ireland as a back up. Even if some of them aren't a big fan of the post-med school training system here, its a year of maintaining clinical skills plus a year of income.

How hard is it for a non-EU to get Irish internship? After the internship, are they then considered on the same level as EU citizens?

 

[RCSI student]

How hard is it for a non-EU to get Irish internship? After the internship, are they then considered on the same level as EU citizens?

It is very difficult for non-EU to get an Irish internship. They restructured the priority for internship spots this year: priority is given to CAO applicants (Irish students who did their high school / undergrad in Ireland), EU non-CAO (anyone with EU passport that has applied to Irish medical school from abroad), Non-EU and non-CAO (everyone else). Last year I believe roughly 20 non-EU / non-CAO students were able to get a spot in the whole country. Within each category the ranking is determined by class centile rank. If you don't have EU citizenship then I would assume the obtaining an intern spot would be a dubious prospect at best unless you happen to be at the top of your class.

 

[Jloyay]

I'm at UCC now and in the graduating class for Canada this year 12 applied and 9 matched.

 

[t0ny]

I'm at UCC now and in the graduating class for Canada this year 12 applied and 9 matched.

Good glad to see some match stats for CARMS this year. Been trying to get some stats but haven't found anything

 

[RCSI student]

Good glad to see some match stats for CARMS this year. Been trying to get some stats but haven't found anything

I'll post the RCSI match results for Canada and the U.S. once we have all the numbers. It does appear to be a strong year though!

 

[deleted158872]

@RCSI student: From what i've heard, one has to do American electives to get a shot at American residency. i've also heard that getting elective spots is no guarantee and it's based on your grades. is that right? please tell me more about elective process at RCSI and whether most students who want one got one. thanks

 

[torontopharm]

It is very difficult for non-EU to get an Irish internship. They restructured the priority for internship spots this year: priority is given to CAO applicants (Irish students who did their high school / undergrad in Ireland), EU non-CAO (anyone with EU passport that has applied to Irish medical school from abroad), Non-EU and non-CAO (everyone else). Last year I believe roughly 20 non-EU / non-CAO students were able to get a spot in the whole country. Within each category the ranking is determined by class centile rank. If you don't have EU citizenship then I would assume the obtaining an intern spot would be a dubious prospect at best unless you happen to be at the top of your class.

In that case, it seems like like a really risky route if you're a non-EU applicant...considering the expenses involved.
All this time i thought people are applying to Irish schools because you sort of have a "backup" in case you don't match back here.

 

[popeyespinach]

In that case, it seems like like a really risky route if you're a non-EU applicant...considering the expenses involved.
All this time i thought people are applying to Irish schools because you sort of have a "backup" in case you don't match back here.

I think that's why when people are applying to med schools, SDN members and pretty much everyone else who has gone through the process suggests prioritizing the options in the following rank (if the applicant wants to practice in North America):
1. US/Canada MD
2. US DO
3. Ireland MBBS (for having most FMG match through CaRMS)/Israel MD (for having most FMG match through NRMP)
4a. Australia MBBS
4b. Caribbean

That being said, if someone who does want to pursue medicine but US/Canada MD is not a possibility due to the strength of application, and if they are against the option of US DO (simply because they think there'll be some sort of stigma), it's not unreasonable for them to want to pursue a costly degree in medicine outside of North America. I am not experienced in the application process but I have read extensively on US DO, and honestly, had I written the MCAT prior to my application and finished the prerequisite course work, I would definitely have applied to US DO. People need to look at the match rates and match lists for DO schools. US DO have been represented in every specialty and most schools have over a 90% match rate in the first round due to the fact that US DO can apply to both MD and DO residencies.

 

[deleted158872]

I think that's why when people are applying to med schools, SDN members and pretty much everyone else who has gone through the process suggests prioritizing the options in the following rank (if the applicant wants to practice in North America):
1. US/Canada MD
2. US DO
3. Ireland MBBS (for having most FMG match through CaRMS)/Israel MD (for having most FMG match through NRMP)
4a. Australia MBBS
4b. Caribbean

That being said, if someone who does want to pursue medicine but US/Canada MD is not a possibility due to the strength of application, and if they are against the option of US DO (simply because they think there'll be some sort of stigma), it's not unreasonable for them to want to pursue a costly degree in medicine outside of North America. I am not experienced in the application process but I have read extensively on US DO, and honestly, had I written the MCAT prior to my application and finished the prerequisite course work, I would definitely have applied to US DO. People need to look at the match rates and match lists for DO schools. US DO have been represented in every specialty and most schools have over a 90% match rate in the first round due to the fact that US DO can apply to both MD and DO residencies.

1/ Australia medical degree is MD now.

2/ Ireland is better than Australia for Canadians.
however, for Americans, Australia's Ochsner program is better than Ireland, because it affords you 2 years of rotations in the US. in Ireland, you'll have to compete for limited elective US rotations which are by no means guaranteed, and the most you can do is 2 months. as more and more residencies require USCE, Ochsner is the better choice IMO.

 

[popeyespinach]

1/ Australia medical degree is MD now.

2/ Ireland is better than Australia for Canadians.
however, for Americans, Australia's Ochsner program is better than Ireland, because it affords you 2 years of rotations in the US. in Ireland, you'll have to compete for limited elective US rotations which are by no means guaranteed, and the most you can do is 2 months. as more and more residencies require USCE, Ochsner is the better choice IMO.

I believe UQ Ochsner is the only MD program. I definitely know USyd is still MBBS. And yeah, unfortunately UQ Ochsner doesn't allow Canadians to apply if I recall correctly? I mean I'd rather Ireland than Australia because I would want more chance of coming back to Canada than matching in the US.

 

[torontopharm]

I think that's why when people are applying to med schools, SDN members and pretty much everyone else who has gone through the process suggests prioritizing the options in the following rank (if the applicant wants to practice in North America):
1. US/Canada MD
2. US DO
3. Ireland MBBS (for having most FMG match through CaRMS)/Israel MD (for having most FMG match through NRMP)
4a. Australia MBBS
4b. Caribbean

That being said, if someone who does want to pursue medicine but US/Canada MD is not a possibility due to the strength of application, and if they are against the option of US DO (simply because they think there'll be some sort of stigma), it's not unreasonable for them to want to pursue a costly degree in medicine outside of North America. I am not experienced in the application process but I have read extensively on US DO, and honestly, had I written the MCAT prior to my application and finished the prerequisite course work, I would definitely have applied to US DO. People need to look at the match rates and match lists for DO schools. US DO have been represented in every specialty and most schools have over a 90% match rate in the first round due to the fact that US DO can apply to both MD and DO residencies.

I agree with all of that.
It was just interesting to me since Ireland has long been thought of as a great option because non-EU citizens were still able to squeeze in for Irish internships if they wanted to. I've had friends that took the Ireland route because they were "just gonna get an Irish internship if i can't match back". It seems like this is no longer an option.

 

[DoctorS84]

USyd is MD.

 

[popeyespinach]

USyd is MD.

Weird. I swear when I checked it, it was MBBS. Nonetheless thanks for letting me know

 

[UBC2014]

MD...MBBS...doesn't matter at all. MBBS simply just get called MDs upon their return to N/A

 

[RCSI student]

@RCSI student: From what i've heard, one has to do American electives to get a shot at American residency. i've also heard that getting elective spots is no guarantee and it's based on your grades. is that right? please tell me more about elective process at RCSI and whether most students who want one got one. thanks

Electives are predominantly arranged by us outside of RCSI. A few students are given 1 month as a collaborative elective which is based on grades but, not everyone gets one. The majority of people are able to arrange electives without too much trouble (I had to harass a few admin people).

 

[RCSI student]

In that case, it seems like like a really risky route if you're a non-EU applicant...considering the expenses involved.
All this time i thought people are applying to Irish schools because you sort of have a "backup" in case you don't match back here.

The two and three year match rate for all Irish schools (except for maybe Trinity) approaches 100%, the majority of people match out of their final year and the ones who don't almost certainly match the following year. EU citizenship does provide a nice backup as the current Irish policy is to guarantee all EU citizens an intern spot (if there aren't enough, they are required to make more).

 

[deleted718115]

Electives are predominantly arranged by us outside of RCSI. A few students are given 1 month as a collaborative elective which is based on grades but, not everyone gets one. The majority of people are able to arrange electives without too much trouble (I had to harass a few admin people).

Do you have to pay extra tuition for elective spots, as most US rotation programs charge a fee for IMGs to do electives there?

 

[deleted718115]

Electives are predominantly arranged by us outside of RCSI. A few students are given 1 month as a collaborative elective which is based on grades but, not everyone gets one. The majority of people are able to arrange electives without too much trouble (I had to harass a few admin people).

Are all electives based on grades or just these collaborative ones?

 

[RCSI student]

Do you have to pay extra tuition for elective spots, as most US rotation programs charge a fee for IMGs to do electives there?

Cost depends on the program and can range from completely free to 4000 dollars (Harvard). I got 2 of my 3 electives by simply calling programs and sending them my USMLE scores and maybe a personal statement. Only the collaborative ones are based on grades, most american programs don't care about your school grades as USMLE scores are a far more important factor. Additionally, the grading system in Ireland (and for most of Europe) is completely different than Canada and the United States (70% is a first class honours and anything above a 75% doesn't really exist outside of maybe the top 3 people in the class). At RCSI your grades during your first two years don't really mean much unless your are trying to medal in a certain subject (they don't count towards your final degree or your centile score which gets released to North American programs during the application season).

 

[PhysioMD]

I'm curious about the grading and if you can elaborate. I've heard numerous times that 75% is like an A+.
Is this because of a different scale they use or are the tests really that difficult to ensure nobody scores near 75%+.

 

[deleted158872]

Cost depends on the program and can range from completely free to 4000 dollars (Harvard). I got 2 of my 3 electives by simply calling programs and sending them my USMLE scores and maybe a personal statement. Only the collaborative ones are based on grades, most american programs don't care about your school grades as USMLE scores are a far more important factor. Additionally, the grading system in Ireland (and for most of Europe) is completely different than Canada and the United States (70% is a first class honours and anything above a 75% doesn't really exist outside of maybe the top 3 people in the class). At RCSI your grades during your first two years don't really mean much unless your are trying to medal in a certain subject (they don't count towards your final degree or your centile score which gets released to North American programs during the application season).

so you do need to pay rotation fees?
what is the difference b/w "collaborative rotations" and others?
if grades don't count towards centile score, then what does?

 

[deleted158872]

The two and three year match rate for all Irish schools (except for maybe Trinity) approaches 100%, the majority of people match out of their final year and the ones who don't almost certainly match the following year. EU citizenship does provide a nice backup as the current Irish policy is to guarantee all EU citizens an intern spot (if there aren't enough, they are required to make more).

Thanks for taking your time answering questions.
could you please give me your honest opinion in response to this post? http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...erican-friends-considering-uk-ireland.899646/

what do you think of RCSI's teaching & curriculum?

 

[RCSI student]

so you do need to pay rotation fees?
what is the difference b/w "collaborative rotations" and others?
if grades don't count towards centile score, then what does?

Again it depends on where you do your rotation, some schools are expensive because they charge you for everything: application fee, tuition fee for duration of rotation, fees for scrubs, access cards etc). One of my rotations I paid $50 dollars as an administrative fee and that was it, another one all included cost me almost $2500.

The only difference between a collaborative rotation is that every year a U.S. or Canadian medical school agrees to take "x" number of students for a rotation as part of an affiliation agreement with the school. Collaborative rotation can be really good as some are located at top notch institutions however; they can also be a hassle as these schools use collaborative students to fill available spots and the student may not get to choose which specialty their rotation is in. In terms of your application to CARMS or ERAS it doesn't matter how you got your elective and schools won't know that one of your clinical electives was given to you by your home school unless you tell them.

I should have been more specific about grades. Your pre-clinical grades don't count towards your overall degree or North American applications. It is only your clinical years (final 2 years) that count towards centile score.

 

[deleted158872]

for the past 3 years, did anyone choose to delay the USMLE or not take the USMLE and stay in Ireland?

 

[RCSI student]

for the past 3 years, did anyone choose to delay the USMLE or not take the USMLE and stay in Ireland?

There are usually a few people who delay the USMLE each year, often for personal reasons.

 

[deleted718115]

I think that's why when people are applying to med schools, SDN members and pretty much everyone else who has gone through the process suggests prioritizing the options in the following rank (if the applicant wants to practice in North America):
1. US/Canada MD
2. US DO
3. Ireland MBBS (for having most FMG match through CaRMS)/Israel MD (for having most FMG match through NRMP)
4a. Australia MBBS
4b. Caribbean

That being said, if someone who does want to pursue medicine but US/Canada MD is not a possibility due to the strength of application, and if they are against the option of US DO (simply because they think there'll be some sort of stigma), it's not unreasonable for them to want to pursue a costly degree in medicine outside of North America. I am not experienced in the application process but I have read extensively on US DO, and honestly, had I written the MCAT prior to my application and finished the prerequisite course work, I would definitely have applied to US DO. People need to look at the match rates and match lists for DO schools. US DO have been represented in every specialty and most schools have over a 90% match rate in the first round due to the fact that US DO can apply to both MD and DO residencies.

Any reasons why you put Ireland above Australia?

 

[Gos81238ia]

Did any US/Canadian students (or other non-eu foreign students) get their internships in Ireland?

Internships in Ireland don't come out until June, but they haven't changed the number of spots. Very few non-EU manage to get internships each year, so its definitely something you shouldn't count on if you are non-EU and studying in Ireland

 

[Gos81238ia]

for the past 3 years, did anyone choose to delay the USMLE or not take the USMLE and stay in Ireland?

Again, you cannot count on staying in Ireland if non-EU. There are a limited number of intern spots in Ireland and non-EU students are considered last. Only a handful get an intern position in Ireland each year just due to limited spots

 

[PhysioMD]

Again: if non-EU you WILL NEVER obtain a spot in Ireland and UK or any other part of Europe. They are very strict about this to protect the employment rights of Europeans. If you are EU but not residing there for the past 3 years, you are bottom of the group for selection of intern spot so you will end up in a small remote location like in family med.

Why would you want to delay USMLE, doing so jeopardizes your U.S. Match