Switching phd programs

[deleted968413]

Hi all. I'm in my third year in a scientist-practitioner clinical program. I am burnt out on research and want to focus on clinical work. The way the program is structured I am likely looking at 5 more years to complete the degree. With research obligations ramping up I'm desperately wanting a change. Between the burnout and some health issues I've had some performance problems over the last 6 months as well.

I have my M.S in psychology since I completed my master's thesis and around 200 clinical hours. I looked at lmhc programs however the one's I've contacted will only let me transfer a few credits and no clinical hours. I dislike the idea of leaving a phd program with a full tuition waiver/stipend for a 2 year master's which will require student loans.

I think a better option could be a psyd and counseling psychology program. The bulk of my 55 credit hours and MS will likely transfer which is a huge plus. I would likely just have a dissertation and possible comps/quals, which I'm confident I could complete. As an applicant I would have my M.S, clinical experience, 95%tile gre scores, 3 papers, 3 years at a competitive r1 program. Two of my letters of rec will be mixed as the burnout has impacted my research and clinical performance but the third from my post-bac job was stellar. The performance issues could likely be framed as health related (I have a document neurological condition which flared up) but it would likely raise a red flag. As such, I would probably aim for less competitive programs which I think would be a better fit anyway. I'm curious if anyone can speak to making that switch and how my application might be received. I have met one other person who switched phd programs (social psych to clinical) so I know it's possible.

Thanks for your input.

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[erg923]

8 years (7 + 1)? seems awfully long to complete program requirements. I know it happens, but though that that amount of time was likely due to student choice(s) rather than the quickest it could be done. You are in your 3rd year, you sure you wont be able to apply for internship in another 2 years or so?

 

[WisNeuro]

Credit transfers generally don't work out like most students think. Chances are you'd have to retake some classes. If you're lucky, you'd be looking at 3 years to completion after transfer, but likely 4. I would do my best to work with my advisor and see if I could reduce my research requirements to finishing the dissertation and focusing the rest of your energies on clinical work in your current program.

 

[foreverbull]

I would also like to know why 5 more years when you would be at the halfway point in most programs. This info is important when considering your future options and/or barriers to graduating.

 

[deleted968413]

8 years (7 + 1)? seems awfully long to complete program requirements. I know it happens, but though that that amount of time was likely due to student choice(s) rather than the quickest it could be done. You are in your 3rd year, you sure you wont be able to apply for internship in another 2 years or so?

I would say it is possible for me to finish in 7, but unlikely for a few reasons: external practicum won't happen until year 5, next two years there's a solid 30hr/week research load (mostly during business hours so clinical hours are hard to obtain), and perhaps most importantly I have concerns about my health holding up with consistent 60-70 hour work weeks. The program's mean completion time is something like 7.2 so it's not atypical for us.

Credit transfers generally don't work out like most students think. Chances are you'd have to retake some classes. If you're lucky, you'd be looking at 3 years to completion after transfer, but likely 4. I would do my best to work with my advisor and see if I could reduce my research requirements to finishing the dissertation and focusing the rest of your energies on clinical work in your current program.

I would be fine with retaking some, 4 years with a less rigorous research load actually sounds great! As for your second point I actually did have that conversation with my advisor and our director. I was told I would have to forfeit my fellowship which could also impact my tuition waiver and securing another funding source was not guaranteed. My advisor heavily implied I might need to switch advisors as she needs people willing to work on her grants.

Thank you all for your help!

 

[foreverbull]

I would say it is possible for me to finish in 7, but unlikely for a few reasons: external practicum won't happen until year 5, next two years there's a solid 30hr/week research load (mostly during business hours so clinical hours are hard to obtain), and perhaps most importantly I have concerns about my health holding up with consistent 60-70 hour work weeks. The program's mean completion time is something like 7.2 so it's not atypical for us.



I would be fine with retaking some, 4 years with a less rigorous research load actually sounds great! As for your second point I actually did have that conversation with my advisor and our director. I was told I would have to forfeit my fellowship which could also impact my tuition waiver and securing another funding source was not guaranteed. My advisor heavily implied I might need to switch advisors as she needs people willing to work on her grants.

Thank you all for your help!

Wow, this scientist-practitioner program sounds like it’s a scientist program with a dash of clinical practice and geared toward research-track folks only. I would imagine it’s set up quite differently than most clinical programs since most programs set you up for 50/50 balance and completion in 4-6 years instead of focusing much more on research with a longer years requirement. Did you know this going in?

And no external practica until year five! I see why you’re wanting to cut your losses and move on. The tricky part is that you will lose some credits and other programs will want to know why you chose a program that wasn’t a good fit for you. I would suggest asking folks in here how to frame this to others.

If you are worried about your letter writers, I would make sure to pick faculty who think highly of you. Are there faculty in your current program who could provide strong letters? If not, that could also be a red flag to another program.

Are you sure you wouldn’t want to apply to other counseling or clinical Ph.D. Programs? I knocked a year off my doctoral program with my master’s credits, and it seems like it would be a shame to switch to Psy.D. When you have a strong research background going in. Having said that, some Psy.D. programs can be finished in as little as 4 years without transfer credits (although I don’t know how common that is).

 

[deleted968413]

It was one of the more research heavy programs I applied to, the fellowship and research fit was really hard to turn down. In retrospect it was probably not the best decision.

As for letters, I'll have a great one from my previous research job. From my current program my advisor will give me an average letter with performance caveats. I spent the majority of time with them so the best I could do for a third would be a supervisor who would have similar caveats. It will be a weakness in my application, hence feeling like a less competitive counseling psych or PsyD program would be a better fit. I don't have a strong preference between those, either would allow me to practice clinically. I've enjoyed an integrative approach so I could be flexible in terms of the program's orientation as well.

 

[futureapppsy2]

A counseling psych program isn't inherently less competitive in terms of admissions or even as clinically-focused as you may assume. Counseling psych programs pretty much run along the same research-clinical spectrum as clinical psych programs, with maybe a *slightly* less research-heavy "top out" at the one extreme (even that's debatable, though). Much like clinical programs, a strong focus of the application process will be on research and research fit.

I do know someone who transferred programs (university-based clinical psych PhD to another university-based clinical psych PhD) after 2 years, wanting a more research-heavy program and more stable/better funding. She applied to, I think, four programs, interviewed at two, and got into one, with great recs and good research (2-3 publications). FWIW, she still took 5 years at the second program, and so didn't really save any time there. I think the mediocre recs may be really hard to overcome in your case, unfortunately.

Edit: Also, don't go to an unfunded PhD/PsyD program of any type.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Sounds like you are in a tough spot. I urge you not to leave your program. Transferring to any other doctoral program may be very difficult (I am excluding the exploitative schools) because you will set off a big red flag. Also, it is too far into the application cycle, you wont be starting till 2020.

I think your best option is to continue talking with your DCT and try to work out the problems. If you are not interested in doing the research, you shouldn't be doing it. It is apparent that your funding is tied to the fellowship but perhaps other options may be available. Your mentor doesn't sound receptive but the DCT may be with more discussion. Its a bad set up if the program is going to squeeze you and make you do work that you don't want .

What you need to do is get your scholarly work done, complete classes, get clinical training, and get out. You are not required to do anything more.

How may classes do you have left to take after this year? A loan for this program may be a better option than taking out 2 years of loans for a masters program.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

hence feeling like a less competitive counseling psych or PsyD program would be a better fit.

Just want to highlight that any program providing tuition remission and stipend is not going to be less competitive for you due to your current situation. Taking on debt from a new program doesn't seem like a better option compared to taking on debt at your current program.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Transitioning to a balanced program could work, but the timing isn’t ideal and you likely won’t save much if any time overall. Tough situation to be sure.

 

[erg923]

I am little confused and concerned about a clinical program with a minimum time of completion of 8 years. This seems ridiculous.