PhD programs and research?

[Epak333]

Hiiii,

I am curious to know if there are any clinical psych PhD programs with less of an emphasis on research (i.e., still have to do research but not to the extent of other programs). I am guessing maybe the ones with higher acceptance rates? I have 1.5 years of experience as an RA in a psych research lab, not sure if this is sufficient for any PhD. I have only looked into PsyD programs, so any info about PhD programs would be great! I am not the biggest fan of research but I'll do it for grad school if I have to, just hoping there are some programs that are not as extreme with research. Also, I am interested in forensics if that makes any difference.

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[AcronymAllergy]

I'd probably start with the Insider's Guide and go from there. It likely has the most comprehensive ratings of programs based on their research vs. clinical focus (or at least it did the last time I looked at it).

As an aside, although you don't need to be highly productive in research to be involved in forensics, you will need to be very familiar with the process of critically evaluating research (and IMO, the best way to gain that skill is to do research). The same could be said for most areas of psychology, but the stakes and pressure in forensics can be particularly high (although it also may depend on what kind of forensic work we're talking about).

 

[ClinicalABA]

While there are likely between program differences, it going to very within programs probably just as much. Within a clinical psych mentor-model program, it's your specific faculty mentor who primarily oversees your research. My mentor was later careeer, TD, fully tenured. There were a few of us in her lab (in this context, lab=group of student with same mentor plus that mentor, rather than a place where science is done in white coats). We had to our required research (thesis and dissertation), but these were not part of any of her active projects, though all at least loosely related to her area of research I was funded as her RA, and the research that I was paid for was largely preparing book chapters and review article. My own projects were done with community based samples, and there were weeks when I did not actively engage with my subjects. Other mentors had more active projects working with college student subjects or community members who came in to the designated physical space "labs" in the psych building. Their students were more regularly involved in research activities, with designated times to work in the lab each week.

TLDR- when looking at clinical phd programs, you need to consider both between-program and within-program differences. Research activity is often overseen/dictated by the mentor and what they have going on.

 

[summerbabe]

Second the advice to start with Insider’s Guide to build a large list and then the advice to look into specific mentors.

And I 100% agree with the sentiment about within program differences. In my program, some faculty were super research focused (and thus their students did a lot of research) but others were only moderately focused (e.g., engaged in research but way less pressure to publish/present).

For mentorship model programs (which is the norm in funded PhDs), as you identify specific PIs who might be of interest, check out their Google Scholar stats.

If somebody has published a bunch in the last couple of years and are highly cited, they will likely be looking to accept students who are also research workhorses. Stay away from them because you’re a) probably a poor fit from their perspective and might be throwing away the application fee and b) you probably won’t enjoy their mentorship if you got an offer.

Lastly, make sure to also check out counseling psych PhDs. My program was a research-heavy, funded counseling psych PhD but my impression is that our research expectations were higher than average and more aligned with typical funded PhD clinical psych program expectations. But other programs will offer a different mix.

 

[Epak333]

I'd probably start with the Insider's Guide and go from there. It likely has the most comprehensive ratings of programs based on their research vs. clinical focus (or at least it did the last time I looked at it).

As an aside, although you don't need to be highly productive in research to be involved in forensics, you will need to be very familiar with the process of critically evaluating research (and IMO, the best way to gain that skill is to do research). The same could be said for most areas of psychology, but the stakes and pressure in forensics can be particularly high (although it also may depend on what kind of forensic work we're talking about).

I'll look into the Insider's Guide, thanks! And yes I would agree that research is necessary for any field of psychology. I'm not particularly the biggest fan of research, but I can suck it up for a few years in grad school. Either way, it will give me the skills I need to become a good psychologist. It seems research is dependent on the program and even dependent on certain faculty within a given program.

 

[Epak333]

While there are likely between program differences, it going to very within programs probably just as much. Within a clinical psych mentor-model program, it's your specific faculty mentor who primarily oversees your research. My mentor was later careeer, TD, fully tenured. There were a few of us in her lab (in this context, lab=group of student with same mentor plus that mentor, rather than a place where science is done in white coats). We had to our required research (thesis and dissertation), but these were not part of any of her active projects, though all at least loosely related to her area of research I was funded as her RA, and the research that I was paid for was largely preparing book chapters and review article. My own projects were done with community based samples, and there were weeks when I did not actively engage with my subjects. Other mentors had more active projects working with college student subjects or community members who came in to the designated physical space "labs" in the psych building. Their students were more regularly involved in research activities, with designated times to work in the lab each week.

TLDR- when looking at clinical phd programs, you need to consider both between-program and within-program differences. Research activity is often overseen/dictated by the mentor and what they have going on.

Makes sense! I am in a research lab currently as an undergrad RA and the studies we do are more active in running participants, not based on data that's already there. I enjoy the data input/coding, article reviews, and nuances of looking at/utilizing already existing datasets. It's just the research where you are actively running participants in a study, getting funding, getting IRB approval, and jumping through lots of hoops that I don't particularly enjoy. Especially when mentors are super specific in how you run participants and one small thing can "ruin" the study. It sounds like your mentor is the type that I would enjoy working with! But, I see it is not only a program to program basis but also dependent on different faculty within a program. Thanks for your help!

 

[Epak333]

Second the advice to start with Insider’s Guide to build a large list and then the advice to look into specific mentors.

And I 100% agree with the sentiment about within program differences. In my program, some faculty were super research focused (and thus their students did a lot of research) but others were only moderately focused (e.g., engaged in research but way less pressure to publish/present).

For mentorship model programs (which is the norm in funded PhDs), as you identify specific PIs who might be of interest, check out their Google Scholar stats.

If somebody has published a bunch in the last couple of years and are highly cited, they will likely be looking to accept students who are also research workhorses. Stay away from them because you’re a) probably a poor fit from their perspective and might be throwing away the application fee and b) you probably won’t enjoy their mentorship if you got an offer.

Lastly, make sure to also check out counseling psych PhDs. My program was a research-heavy, funded counseling psych PhD but my impression is that our research expectations were higher than average and more aligned with typical funded PhD clinical psych program expectations. But other programs will offer a different mix.

Thanks for the tips, I didn't even think of looking at who has lots of recent publications! I'll keep all that in mind. Also, I never fully understood what the difference between clinical and counseling is? In what case would you pursue one over the other?

 

[summerbabe]

Also, I never fully understood what the difference between clinical and counseling is? In what case would you pursue one over the other?

It's the same foundational skills (therapy, assessment, research) but sometimes with different points of emphasis. For example, you won't find much qualitative or mixed methods research happening in clinical programs nor would you expect a counseling program to specialize in neuropsych.

Some topics like schizophrenia are almost always researched in clinical psych departments while topics like vocational counseling are almost always researched in a counseling psych department. There are also plenty of topics that are equally covered (like substance abuse interventions).

Very broadly speaking, a counseling psych PhD grad clinician is more likely to train or possibly work in a university counseling center while a clinical psych PhD grad is more likely to work in an academic medical center. But I think those distinctions were more relevant in the past than in the current market.

 

[Epak333]

It's the same foundational skills (therapy, assessment, research) but sometimes with different points of emphasis. For example, you won't find much qualitative or mixed methods research happening in clinical programs nor would you expect a counseling program to specialize in neuropsych.

Some topics like schizophrenia are almost always researched in clinical psych departments while topics like vocational counseling are almost always researched in a counseling psych department. There are also plenty of topics that are equally covered (like substance abuse interventions).

Very broadly speaking, a counseling psych PhD grad clinician is more likely to train or possibly work in a university counseling center while a clinical psych PhD grad is more likely to work in an academic medical center. But I think those distinctions were more relevant in the past than in the current market

Gotcha, thanks for letting me know! Picking/applying to programs is stressing me outttttt

 

[cara susanna]

Look for balanced clinical PhD programs - they do exist! I attended one.

 

[WisNeuro]

Look for balanced clinical PhD programs - they do exist! I attended one.

Likewise, both of mine were R1s, and one was pretty balanced throughout, the other was pretty lab specific in terms of research heaviness.

 

[Epak333]

Likewise, both of mine were R1s, and one was pretty balanced throughout, the other was pretty lab specific in terms of research heaviness.

I have some schools I'm interested that are both R1 and R2, seems like it just varies on a lab to lab basis within the program. Thanks!

 

[smalltownpsych]

Gotcha, thanks for letting me know! Picking/applying to programs is stressing me outttttt

It is stressful! Eventually I went with the program that let me in. What is funny is that the worst program I applied to didn’t accept me so I dodged that bullet. I don‘t think I had the research background to get into the funded programs so that left me with a good but expensive PsyD program. If I had to do it over, I would have out more energy into getting the research experience and applying more broadly geographically to get into a fully funded PhD program. However, we did own a condo that ended up netting us about the same as I paid out and my wife had a good job so in the long run, it all sort of made sense and worked out.

 

[psycho1391]

Hiiii,

I am curious to know if there are any clinical psych PhD programs with less of an emphasis on research (i.e., still have to do research but not to the extent of other programs). I am guessing maybe the ones with higher acceptance rates? I have 1.5 years of experience as an RA in a psych research lab, not sure if this is sufficient for any PhD. I have only looked into PsyD programs, so any info about PhD programs would be great! I am not the biggest fan of research but I'll do it for grad school if I have to, just hoping there are some programs that are not as extreme with research. Also, I am interested in forensics if that makes any difference.

University of Detroit Mercy is PhD with less clinical focus.

 

[Epak333]

It is stressful! Eventually I went with the program that let me in. What is funny is that the worst program I applied to didn’t accept me so I dodged that bullet. I don‘t think I had the research background to get into the funded programs so that left me with a good but expensive PsyD program. If I had to do it over, I would have out more energy into getting the research experience and applying more broadly geographically to get into a fully funded PhD program. However, we did own a condo that ended up netting us about the same as I paid out and my wife had a good job so in the long run, it all sort of made sense and worked out.

I'm glad to hear it worked out! I think I have enough research to maybe get into a PhD program but we'll see. Definitely not the easiest career path lol

 

[Epak333]

University of Detroit Mercy is PhD with less clinical focus.

Thanks!