Surgical Sales Rep Accepted into SGU, Wanting a Psych or Family Medicine Residency- is SGU Right?

[deleted480308]

Unless you have money to burn don't bother applying this year, get the mcat up and kill the app next year. i'd also recommend shadowing a DO for about 20hrs and add DO schools to your app process

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Skip Intro]

I don't want to jump into something and not get the respect I deserve

Then, bottom line, I would suggest at this point in time avoiding medicine altogether.

-Skip

 

[truckboat]

Skip, avoiding it altogether??

Explain.


Sb247- I've shadowed DO doctors over 200+ hours

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Skip, avoiding it altogether??

Explain.


Sb247- I've shadowed DO doctors over 200+ hours

For many DO schools, you will need a letter from a DO.

 

[deleted480308]

Skip, avoiding it altogether??

Explain.


Sb247- I've shadowed DO doctors over 200+ hours

if you want to be a doctor for respect, it's not worth it

if you want to be a doctor to be a doctor, do it

 

[deleted480308]

Sb247- I've shadowed DO doctors over 200+ hours

wait.......you shadowed DOs for over 5 full time weeks and didn't apply DO? you have some serious lack of tactical proficiency sir/ma'am...you need to start thinking through things a bit more

 

[UBC2014]

I really don't have a problem with the quality of training SGU provides. I felt the school did it's best to teach kids, and not fail people out. I went in with a 24O(11VR,7BS,6PS) in 2012. Graduated within 4 years, but didn't match Psychiatry this year if you read the links I posted. Rotations were at solid places with residency training programs. There was no hassle in setting stuff up. School basic science was solid, nothing too extreme. If you are doing poorly you know early on so you can correct your mistakes, or seek help.

The real issue though is as you will notice is the huge stigma coming from the Caribbeans. Simply noted, you are at a huge uphill battle. For every story you hear about the Canadian with 205-220 J1 visa matching, there is going to be more stories about them not matching. Then you are going to hear about the 220's-230's US Citizen not matching, if you read the ones I posted about Psychiatry (IE me and my classmates). I also know some that applied to Peds and not matching with similar scores this year.

I'll be honest. I came from government housing, and didn't know too much about entering medical schools when I started. DO's weren't as well known compared to as of right now (they are even merging AOA and ACGME spots). I didn't even know about URM status for AAMC. So I ended up at SGU, since I knew some doctors I shadowed from SGU. The one thing I notice though is the stigma of being from Caribbeans is worse though compared to when I was growing up. Trust me, I seen the stares when people know you live in government housing or when you use food stamps (when they were colorful, before this beautiful EBT business). People will treat you negatively and just associate you with all sorts of vile stuff worse then what I grew up with.

I just don't know why, sometimes when I get on SDN I feel less the human, by the type of speech people give about IMGs. I can understand why they might have problems with how some of the schools are, or the for-profit business practices, but you are just simply treated really bad here and in real life sometimes. Maybe I am sensitive to this stuff, and that's why I avoid this forum mostly. But I recommend against going to SGU or any other Caribbean schools base on that discrimination and feeling. You aren't in it yet, haven't been in rotations, or applied for ERAS yet. But when you are, you realize that the stigma is real, and the venom that you get for being an IMG is just a horrible feeling.

Curious, were you Canadian?

The fact that I can easily pull a list of 30+ Canadians matching FM and IM from SGU/Ross with scores in that range, is not just a fluke, it should be at least somewhat compelling data that if you apply broadly across the US for FM, you will more likely than not get a spot somewhere. The Canadians who applied FM and didn't match, mostly had step 1 failures, or in most cases simply did not apply broadly enough + not to the RIGHT places. You should always be applying to majority of places that have taken IMGs in the past. Program never took a carrib grad in last 5 years? probably not going to be the first. Throw it in sure, but don't expect much. Also, most people had the best luck with programs they did electives in. Strategically picking electives at carrib friendly places is key. Michigan, NY, NJ, Oklahoma, etc etc.

Im sorry you didn't match, but you could have backed up FM if you wanted to ensure you got a spot. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and no way of knowing that psychiatry wouldve been so competitive. Also very fair if you have no interest in FM and would strongly prefer Psych over nothing too.

Just providing an overall picture. I am generally VERY AGAINST IMG medical schools, but it really is not all doom and gloom for those who are actually decent students but were unlucky getting into a stateside school.

OP clearly isn't that person though, they need to prove to themself that they can succeed, and first step is getting a decent MCAT score that would actually make them competitive for a US school. If they do this, then they can go down to SGU with less worry, as long as they keep expectations really low.

 

[UBC2014]

Graduates from every new US medical school will sop up hundreds of positions that IMG's were lucky enough to get this year.

To be fair, I keep reading this but the data simply doesn't support it thus far. Year over year, there's been increasing spots. Definitely some IMGs will get pushed out, but SGU/Ross wouldn't be running their business model if they couldn't get people into residency haha./

 

[gyngyn]

To be fair, I keep reading this but the data simply doesn't support it thus far. Year over year, there's been increasing spots. Definitely some IMGs will get pushed out, but SGU/Ross wouldn't be running their business model if they couldn't get people into residency haha./

It takes 4 years to graduate the first class.
If you add how many DO and MD schools have just opened with the ones that are just starting to graduate their first classes, the difference (nearly a thousand grads) will become evident well before OP graduates from SGU. By that time this discussion will be moot.

 

[UBC2014]

It takes 4 years to graduate the first class.
If you add how many DO and MD schools have just opened with the ones that are just starting to graduate their first classes, the difference (nearly a thousand grads) will become evident well before OP graduates from SGU. By that time this discussion will be moot.

I agree completely, but the same could have been said 4 years ago as well when other USMD USDO schools opened up, but spots have slowly risen as well. This is outside of the "all-in" policy as well.

Not trying to say "Go SGU" just adding a bit of devils advocate to the doom-and-gloom scenarios about residency spots.

 

[gyngyn]

I agree completely, but the same could have been said 4 years ago as well when other USMD USDO schools opened up, but spots have slowly risen as well. This is outside of the "all-in" policy as well.

Not trying to say "Go SGU" just adding a bit of devils advocate to the doom-and-gloom scenarios about residency spots.

The fruit has just begun to ripen!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I agree with the timeline above. Take this year to pull your application together. Make sure you have good LOR's. If you can get one that describes your interpersonal skills from your device work, that would be great. Focus on the MCAT and improve your score. Then apply next year to US MD, US DO, and to SGU again. If you only get into SGU, then you can make the decision about what to do.

 

[truckboat]

To skip & sb .... It's not about needing the respect. What I meant by that comment is that if I go thru the medical school motions. Obtain excellent scores on step 1 & 2 then get zero respect and no residency. Then all that hard work did not pay off. If I fall head over heels in love with Ortho or NEurosurgery- I won't be able to follow that passion at SGU. And it's very possible I'd want to do either of those specialties with my background.

To the poster who said the quote, "life is too short to not be able to pick your own destiny." That spoke to me. That was the straw the broke the camels back. I do not want to be discriminated against. I do not want a ******ed uphill battle that lands me in a **** program in the middle of nowhere. I want to be trained by the best, I want to be able to heal my patients in every way possible.

"To be the best you must go to the source of the best" - Dr Richard Bandler

At SGU I can get an MD, that's about it- then I'll be fighting for my damn life to get a family or psych residency. But what if I change my mind? As most do... Then I'm ****ED for the rest of my life... I'm one of those miserable doctors that can't stop complaining.

Over the weekend I brought this up to my brother (accepted into SGU with me this year) he fought it at first. He has no job to fall back on (he's 22, I am 30). But this morning I woke up to a text from him and my dad... My research sparked them to do their own research.....

Our general consensus-- "damnit... This probably isn't the right thing to do"

Sb, yes I've followed DO's for years now. Worked side by side. I didn't apply to their program because I was told by my mentor (a DO) that obtaining an Ortho residency is much easier as an MD... Maybe he's wrong. But that's why I didn't spend my money and more importantly my time, on it.

My thoughts.... Do not accept SGU invitation, retake MCAT & apply this October. This year I will be applying widely. I'm finishing up a biochem course right now & will take this god awful 80% biochemistry MCAT in early September. I'm postponing. I'm putting the fact that I declined SGU on my resume and the reasons why I did it.

 

[truckboat]

UBC, I am American living in Oklahoma City,

 

[deleted480308]

By the time the matches merge I agree with your mentor that ortho is easier as a MD....but only a US MD.

But ortho is one of the most cartoonish of specialties in terms of competition. I'd worry about getting into a school that almost guarantees a residency match in something. Which is basically any US school.

 

[ArsèneLupin]

My thoughts.... Do not accept SGU invitation, retake MCAT & apply this October. This year I will be applying widely. I'm finishing up a biochem course right now & will take this god awful 80% biochemistry MCAT in early September. I'm postponing. I'm putting the fact that I declined SGU on my resume and the reasons why I did it.

1. Applying in october puts you at a disadvantage for this cycle. Why, its late. Schools have had since essentially June to review apps. You could try applying now to DO schools with your current stats and stuff on your application but even a 492 will get you screened out of most if not all places. To put it into perspective thats around an old MCAT score of 18-20. The reality of the matter is you have to retake the MCAT to survive a shot at an acceptance. You did great during school and did the hard part, the GPA. Once a GPA is wrecked its hard to come back from, you covered your bases there. The MCAT is the "easy part" because its something you can change easier than GPA

2. Don't put you declined SGU on a resume. It doesnt further your resume at all.

OSU and OU would be what you should shoot for for in state. OSU being a DO schools is more within reach.

 

[UBC2014]

To skip & sb .... It's not about needing the respect. What I meant by that comment is that if I go thru the medical school motions. Obtain excellent scores on step 1 & 2 then get zero respect and no residency. Then all that hard work did not pay off. If I fall head over heels in love with Ortho or NEurosurgery- I won't be able to follow that passion at SGU. And it's very possible I'd want to do either of those specialties with my background.

To the poster who said the quote, "life is too short to not be able to pick your own destiny." That spoke to me. That was the straw the broke the camels back. I do not want to be discriminated against. I do not want a ******ed uphill battle that lands me in a **** program in the middle of nowhere. I want to be trained by the best, I want to be able to heal my patients in every way possible.

"To be the best you must go to the source of the best" - Dr Richard Bandler

At SGU I can get an MD, that's about it- then I'll be fighting for my damn life to get a family or psych residency. But what if I change my mind? As most do... Then I'm ****ED for the rest of my life... I'm one of those miserable doctors that can't stop complaining.

Over the weekend I brought this up to my brother (accepted into SGU with me this year) he fought it at first. He has no job to fall back on (he's 22, I am 30). But this morning I woke up to a text from him and my dad... My research sparked them to do their own research.....

Our general consensus-- "damnit... This probably isn't the right thing to do"

Sb, yes I've followed DO's for years now. Worked side by side. I didn't apply to their program because I was told by my mentor (a DO) that obtaining an Ortho residency is much easier as an MD... Maybe he's wrong. But that's why I didn't spend my money and more importantly my time, on it.

My thoughts.... Do not accept SGU invitation, retake MCAT & apply this October. This year I will be applying widely. I'm finishing up a biochem course right now & will take this god awful 80% biochemistry MCAT in early September. I'm postponing. I'm putting the fact that I declined SGU on my resume and the reasons why I did it.

Sure. You're talking in a lot of circles, first you say you want to do psychiatry etc, then you say you don't apply to DO schools because of not being as easy for ortho - why does that matter if you don't want to do ortho?

You need to sit down and figure out what you want first and foremost and plan.

 

[Mikkus]

OP, retaking the MCAT sounds like a great strategy. I would advise you give yourself at least another full cycle of US/DO applications before you commit to SGU.
If you get to that step and do not have an acceptance, I would recommend going down to the island to see what life would be like. Many established/older students could not adjust to the island, and left within the first week. It is a different life on the rock, especially if you have already acclimated to living in the states.

As far as an ortho residency, I would much rather be applying as a DO than a carib. Unless you have connections or outstanding scores, your app will be screened before anyone even opens the documents.
Good luck! And along with Thx I can answer any other questions about sgu if you have them.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

To skip & sb .... It's not about needing the respect. What I meant by that comment is that if I go thru the medical school motions. Obtain excellent scores on step 1 & 2 then get zero respect and no residency. Then all that hard work did not pay off. If I fall head over heels in love with Ortho or NEurosurgery- I won't be able to follow that passion at SGU. And it's very possible I'd want to do either of those specialties with my background.

To the poster who said the quote, "life is too short to not be able to pick your own destiny." That spoke to me. That was the straw the broke the camels back. I do not want to be discriminated against. I do not want a ******ed uphill battle that lands me in a **** program in the middle of nowhere. I want to be trained by the best, I want to be able to heal my patients in every way possible.

"To be the best you must go to the source of the best" - Dr Richard Bandler

At SGU I can get an MD, that's about it- then I'll be fighting for my damn life to get a family or psych residency. But what if I change my mind? As most do... Then I'm ****ED for the rest of my life... I'm one of those miserable doctors that can't stop complaining.

Over the weekend I brought this up to my brother (accepted into SGU with me this year) he fought it at first. He has no job to fall back on (he's 22, I am 30). But this morning I woke up to a text from him and my dad... My research sparked them to do their own research.....

Our general consensus-- "damnit... This probably isn't the right thing to do"

Sb, yes I've followed DO's for years now. Worked side by side. I didn't apply to their program because I was told by my mentor (a DO) that obtaining an Ortho residency is much easier as an MD... Maybe he's wrong. But that's why I didn't spend my money and more importantly my time, on it.

My thoughts.... Do not accept SGU invitation, retake MCAT & apply this October. This year I will be applying widely. I'm finishing up a biochem course right now & will take this god awful 80% biochemistry MCAT in early September. I'm postponing. I'm putting the fact that I declined SGU on my resume and the reasons why I did it.

DOs have some good ortho training programs...

 

[edgerock24]

To skip & sb .... It's not about needing the respect. What I meant by that comment is that if I go thru the medical school motions. Obtain excellent scores on step 1 & 2 then get zero respect and no residency. Then all that hard work did not pay off. If I fall head over heels in love with Ortho or NEurosurgery- I won't be able to follow that passion at SGU. And it's very possible I'd want to do either of those specialties with my background.

To the poster who said the quote, "life is too short to not be able to pick your own destiny." That spoke to me. That was the straw the broke the camels back. I do not want to be discriminated against. I do not want a ******ed uphill battle that lands me in a **** program in the middle of nowhere. I want to be trained by the best, I want to be able to heal my patients in every way possible.

"To be the best you must go to the source of the best" - Dr Richard Bandler

At SGU I can get an MD, that's about it- then I'll be fighting for my damn life to get a family or psych residency. But what if I change my mind? As most do... Then I'm ****ED for the rest of my life... I'm one of those miserable doctors that can't stop complaining.

Over the weekend I brought this up to my brother (accepted into SGU with me this year) he fought it at first. He has no job to fall back on (he's 22, I am 30). But this morning I woke up to a text from him and my dad... My research sparked them to do their own research.....

Our general consensus-- "damnit... This probably isn't the right thing to do"

Sb, yes I've followed DO's for years now. Worked side by side. I didn't apply to their program because I was told by my mentor (a DO) that obtaining an Ortho residency is much easier as an MD... Maybe he's wrong. But that's why I didn't spend my money and more importantly my time, on it.

My thoughts.... Do not accept SGU invitation, retake MCAT & apply this October. This year I will be applying widely. I'm finishing up a biochem course right now & will take this god awful 80% biochemistry MCAT in early September. I'm postponing. I'm putting the fact that I declined SGU on my resume and the reasons why I did it.

No offense, but you sound incredibly eccentric and you come off as if you're living in fantasy land.

Applying in October would most likely be a waste of money. This is way too late.

I recommend you do your own research via these forums and come back down to earth. You need to learn, for yourself, about the admissions process (as well as how to properly prepare for the MCAT).

You can get into medical school, no question. But you need a solid, realistic plan for yourself before you move forward.

 

[truckboat]

Sure. You're talking in a lot of circles, first you say you want to do psychiatry etc, then you say you don't apply to DO schools because of not being as easy for ortho - why does that matter if you don't want to do ortho?

You need to sit down and figure out what you want first and foremost and plan.

I want to get my hands dirty. I need hands on in each subject to decide. My plan is to get in, once I am in I will determine which specialty I will choose. The purpose of this post is that I want to do psych or family.... Since learning SO MUCH from everyone, I realize my true passion is Everything.. I've seen all the specialties but I need to implant myself into a specialty to be completely sure of what I want.

I need rotations to decide. Once I decide I will choose and follow my passion.. I have evolved over the weekend, with everyone's help on the forum . taking away lessons From everyone.

Thank you all. I was a bit confused. .. I was emotional about getting into medical school. I have been accepted and that is a great emotional experience to achieve that goal.

I came here to get the facts on what happens after life with SGU.

Now, I know I want the choice to do whatever I want. And if I go to Carib school, I am limited. I do not want to be limited. I appreciate all of your input and thank you for your generosity. I can tell we would get along in person.

SB thank you for your input. If Ortho is cartoonish, I cannot wait to one day experience it. I appreciate all value you have given.

Arsene, thankyou for your help as well.

Southern surgeon, that is correct. Thank you for clarifying this to everyone

UBC thank you for your input throughout the weekend. I have a very detailed plan, and it involves the need to have no limitations. Caribbean will limit me, therefore it is most likely not for me. Re-read my introduction post. I believe it sums up my plan and what I am shooting for pretty clearly. I want to get into school then explore all of my options without being treated like a second rate citizen. This site has a tendency to do that when regarding foreign schools.

Mikkus thank you I agree.

Thoracic guy- I would 100% go into a DO Ortho program. The surgeons I work with are all in it or running it. It looks extremely fun and a very good environment to learn from excellent teachers. I'd be honored to be accepted into a DO Ortho program.


Edge rock- no offense taken. I am quite passionate about becoming a physician and sometimes that may come off as eccentric thru text. Emotion is tough to convey on a message board. As to your comment about coming down to earth and learning about admission processes etc. I have done all of this and understand the situation 100% clear. Clear enough to be accepted into a medical school and rejected from 5. I was not told by the admissions boards that getting an application in early is the best thing for you, they said anytime is okay (although I had a suspicion this wasn't the case).. I was misled last year and now I know the truth.

If you read my initial post I have a very solid realistic plan about my future. I am prepared to specialize in a variety of things. I am not fixated on at specialty yet, rather I am fixated on all of them right now. I would be happy with a resiedency in anything, but I want to go thru the motions of each first. I want to learn what it's like to be the doctor in each situation - then make my dicision. I am just as happy with family practice, with internal med, with surg, with psych, etc. I love each field. I need to see which matches better with my lifestyle. You have misunderstood me and I'd like to apologize to anyone who also has misunderstood me. All of my posting has been said with unconditional love, respect and extreme appreciation.

Thank you to everyone who mentioned I need to apply early instead of in October. I didn't realize that is as much of a big deal as it is. One of those things that I needed to be slapped in the face with.
This forum has led me in a great direction. Thank you all.

If anyone wants to post negativity, please just leave. Completely unnecessary.

I added more information to my initial post.. The first post on this thread. Hopefully this helps anyone to understand me better. As I am a very humble person that knows what he wants.

 

[truckboat]

Just to clarify one point...

While many institutions have instituted a "zero pharma" policy, I don't know of many institutions that have gone to such extremes for device reps.

Ortho and vascular device reps are actually really essential. Yes, they are salesmen, but they know all the ins and outs of the products. It's not just a matter of a surgeon being "unfamiliar" with equipment. It's very specific - knowing screw lengths and sizes, different combinations. For vascular the various endografts come in myriad combinations. The reps really do help out. I've similarly to the OP seen many situations where a surgeon won't proceed without the rep available.

Thanks for pointing this out SouthernSurgeon,
I have worked in total joints for the past 11 years with some truly incredible surgeons.

 

[truckboat]

Bottom line- at SGU I'm limited .. Even if I have good USMLE scores.

In any American school, those limits are lifted.

 

[jih]

By the way you shouldn't get excited about an SGU acceptance. They take anyone with enough money (or loans).

Sent from my SM-G925V using SDN mobile

 

[truckboat]

Everyone is in agreement that I shouldn't turn in an application this week & put that I am retaking the MCAT at the end of the summer?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Everyone is in agreement that I shouldn't turn in an application this week & put that I am retaking the MCAT at the end of the summer?

Apply when you have a good application. That may mean waiting another year or two. You don't want to be a reapplicant if you can avoid it.

 

[truckboat]

From the SGU rep:

"We only have 12 students to one cadaver maximum."

So it's not 20-25 per cadaver, only 12 Max. That still sounds like it would be a cluster F to get into position to see it properly.

I'll be speaking with the dean this week and will report back. Currently making a list of questions for him.

 

[truckboat]

By the way you shouldn't get excited about an SGU acceptance. They take anyone with enough money (or loans).

Sent from my SM-G925V using SDN mobile

I have to respectfully disagree with you. Please refrain from posting in this thread in the future. Thank you-

 

[Mikkus]

From the SGU rep:

"We only have 12 students to one cadaver maximum."

So it's not 20-25 per cadaver, only 12 Max. That still sounds like it would be a cluster F to get into position to see it properly.

I'll be speaking with the dean this week and will report back. Currently making a list of questions for him.

It might be 6-12 a cadaver.... But ours were quite a few years old. And past their prime.

 

[truckboat]

It might be 6-12 a cadaver.... But ours were quite a few years old. And past their prime.

Regardless... I had a class in undergrad where it was 2 cadavers for 25 people- and that was a $h*tshow of a situation trying to get your head in between people to see anything.

Also, I know from my USA medical students, they are 3-4 per cadaver maximum. They have their one cadaver for the entire semester.

I'm still not sold on my SGU acceptance and still may go. But my probability of going has dropped significantly.

Here is the email I sent to my SGU rep..

But before I copy & paste it- I want everyone to know that this rep who has been helping me is an absolute angel of a human. She is kind respectful and honest. I have tons of respect for her work ethic and I appreciate her for all her hard work and promptness. That being said, you be the judge of this chat. (I will be talking to the dean of the school this week about the curriculum and the changes they have made to it {they've gone to a systems based approach this term})

My initial email:

Hi,

Hope your weekend is going well.. I have been doing a lot of research on SGU... There is a general consensus in the online community that the amount of students who attend wildly outweigh the amount of instructors present...

for example, I have read that 20-25 students will be assigned to one cadaver, fighting over who gets to see what is being discussed. And that this only happens once a week. Opposed to other medical colleges accepting around 120 students (opposed to SGU's 700+) .. And it makes sense from a business perspective.

I am very concerned that the quality of education I receive may be completely flawed (the more I research how many people drop out or fail out.. Rumor has it, SGU is counting on people like me to fail out) and I would like to talk to someone that can explain the curriculum to me in detail. I cannot waste years of my life, go into hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt & then not get the education I deserve. I am just looking for answers, no disrespect at all.

Plus the housing situation is quite off-putting and may require me to decline the acceptance. For the amount of money paid, living in a small room with another person, is just not okay for a 30 year old man haha, (i'm sure you understand).

Can you provide me the contact information of someone I can talk to about this issue?

The response from the SGU rep:

Good Morning TruckBoat,

I am so sorry to here that you are thinking of not coming. =(
I am not sure where you heard there is 20-25 students per cadaver because that is not true at all, the max is 12 students and they are done at sporadic times not all at once and there is open labs where you can go and look at them at any time.
Have you spoken to any of our current students about there experiences at SGU? Also have you spoken to any of our graduates? I understand your frustration with the rooming but our reasoning for keeping you on the campus for only one term is to make sure you get acquainted with the campus and have all amenities available to you.
Please do remember there are students out there who did fail out because they did not want to try, but do remember we have many successful graduates who have their own practices and are doing very competitive residencies.
No other medical school in the WORLD provides more new doctors to the US healthcare system. Over 850 US residencies in 2016.
We placed you in the AEP program to help assist with anything you need while in the MD program and we want you to succeed.
I have forwarded your email to our associate Dean Ryan to address your questions and concerns further.
Just remember the MD program is very hard no matter where you attend but we will help you make your dream of becoming a doctor come true.

Sincerely,

SGU Rep

-----
This rep is such a nice person and has given me completely accurate and true information up to this point. Due to some of the attitudes on the forum, I'm curious what they are paid todo... I'd like to know the training program for the representatives and their compensation. For example, do they get paid on how many of the students they mentor get accepted? Would love some feedback on this email exchange and I will post my chat with the dean after we talk.

Thank you all.

 

[raizen91]

SGU student here, just so people are not misinformed it is typically about 4-5 students per cadaver during lab time. Additionally, you can come whenever you want throughout the week/weekend during lab open hours to review material, or many students also book time with a professor for 1 on 1 sessions. Some advice for SGU...I have enjoyed it very much so far and I finished my first term with a cumulative GPA close to 100. It was tons of material but that being said, clearly it is doable. My recommendation is that if you struggled in undegrad don't think you will come here and do well...chance are you will likely be part of the group that doesn't make it through. Most of those people have been weeded out of my class. That being said, most of my friend did very well. Essentially if you are a hard worker and actually capable you will make it through and will ultimately have a great shot at residencies. If you are part of the minor group who we see writing these blogs about their "terrible" experiences at SGU and them getting kicked out...you likely did not deserve to make the cut anyways. You are either cut to make it or not, simple as that. I highly recommend not taking the blogs seriously of people who were kicked out...I laughed reading most of them. These students were either not capable or did not put in the effort to have success in medical school or as a physician. SGU is a great school and will pay off...if you are honest and put in the work.

 

[truckboat]

SGU is very prompt to respond, By the way. They have excellent customer service.

 

[truckboat]

SGU student here, just so people are not misinformed it is typically about 4-5 students per cadaver during lab time. Additionally, you can come whenever you want throughout the week/weekend during lab open hours to review material, or many students also book time with a professor for 1 on 1 sessions. Some advice for SGU...I have enjoyed it very much so far and I finished my first term with a cumulative GPA close to 100. It was tons of material but that being said, clearly it is doable. My recommendation is that if you struggled in undegrad don't think you will come here and do well...chance are you will likely be part of the group that doesn't make it through. Most of those people have been weeded out of my class. That being said, most of my friend did very well. Essentially if you are a hard worker and actually capable you will make it through and will ultimately have a great shot at residencies. If you are part of the minor group who we see writing these blogs about their "terrible" experiences at SGU and them getting kicked out...you likely did not deserve to make the cut anyways. You are either cut to make it or not, simple as that. I highly recommend not taking the blogs seriously of people who were kicked out...I laughed reading most of them. These students were either not capable or did not put in the effort to have success in medical school or as a physician. SGU is a great school and will pay off...if you are honest and put in the work.

Thank you so much for your input!
I appreciate it, coming from an SGU student.
Congrats on getting through your first term! Serious props buddy!

Thank you also for the information on the labs.
It's' not so much the failing out part I'm worried about...

The most concerning thing to me is not getting a residency...
And not just, not getting the residency of my choice- but not getting a residency at all.

Raizen91 what are you thoughts on this topic?
I know you haven't went thru match yet, but I'm sure you have some input on it.
What specialty are you looking into?
What were your stats, GPA, MCAT, etc.

I struggled with biochemistry. I feel I need to retake it. What is your brutal honest opinion of that? And everyone's brutal honest opinion as well.

(I know that's a ridiculous question lol, but it's something I started worrying about as soon as I was accepted).

Biochem is hard for me to wrap my head around and I'm curious what level of knowledge you need of biochem goin into medical school? .. Is the biochem curriculum set in the foundation that you should know it like the back of your hand & they are adding onto it, or do they teach you medical biochem in a different way than normal biochem ( I have heard arguments for both ).

 

[raizen91]

Thank you so much for your input!
I appreciate it, coming from an SGU student.
Congrats on getting through your first term! Serious props buddy!

Thank you also for the information on the labs.
It's' not so much the failing out part I'm worried about...

The most concerning thing to me is not getting a residency...
And not just, not getting the residency of my choice- but not getting a residency at all.

Raizen91 what are you thoughts on this topic?
I know you haven't went thru match yet, but I'm sure you have some input on it.
What specialty are you looking into?
What were your stats, GPA, MCAT, etc.

I struggled with biochemistry. I feel I need to retake it. What is your brutal honest opinion of that? And everyone's brutal honest opinion as well.

(I know that's a ridiculous question lol, but it's something I started worrying about as soon as I was accepted).

Biochem is hard for me to wrap my head around and I'm curious what level of knowledge you need of biochem goin into medical school? .. Is the biochem curriculum set in the foundation that you should know it like the back of your hand & they are adding onto it, or do they teach you medical biochem in a different way than normal biochem ( I have heard arguments for both ).

I am a Canadian student, I have an undergraduate degree and Masters. I received interviews in Canada but was repeatedly waitlisted. I had a high GPA..3.97/4.00 and my MCAT was 30...verbal was 9 which hindered me for many Canadian schools. I also did not have some of the needed prerequisites for American schools and since I had already finished my undergrad and Masters and was waitlisted several times I wanted to get started. I am not sure where you are from but I have several Canadian friends at SGU and Canadians are typically at the top of their class...this in combination with their hospital affiliations made me choose SGU. I am not an idiot regarding the matching process for international students, and while I have not chosen what I want to go into I will be smart with me choice for sure as it is much easier for SGU students to match in certain residencies. I had lots of biochemistry experience before school and got 100 in first term biochem at SGU however MANY students struggled. It is extremely dense content wise in first term and if you do not constantly review you will fail the class. All depends how much work you put in. I worked hard and was at the top of my class...but you have to be ready to put in the hours...that's honestly the most important thing.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

From the SGU rep:

"We only have 12 students to one cadaver maximum."

So it's not 20-25 per cadaver, only 12 Max. That still sounds like it would be a cluster F to get into position to see it properly.

I'll be speaking with the dean this week and will report back. Currently making a list of questions for him.

Take everything the dean says with a grain of salt. It's his job to get you there. If he fudges on the truth and you go, you don't really have any recourse except to quit. And once you have matriculated there, you have to report that to every US med school you want to go to and basically will find the doors mostly shut closed. I urge you to work on your application, improve your MCAT, and give it at least two cycles. If you still don't get in, then if you are still open to it and fully aware of all of the risks, go for SGU.

 

[BarcaBest23]

this thread is way too long. Trucker, you need to get off these internet forums and start studying for the MCAT now. Reading these posts and posting yourself takes time you could be using to study. Get it done, stop procrastinating, and start studying. Also the fact that you applied to only 5 schools is evident that you did not do adequate research on how to apply effectively for medical school, another thing for you to research and spend your time on

 

[truckboat]

this thread is way too long. Trucker, you need to get off these internet forums and start studying for the MCAT now. Reading these posts and posting yourself takes time you could be using to study. Get it done, stop procrastinating, and start studying. Also the fact that you applied to only 5 schools is evident that you did not do adequate research on how to apply effectively for medical school, another thing for you to research and spend your time on

No need for this negativity, I've been on here for 4 days. Please respectfully go away.

 

[thxleave]

truckboat, I understand you want a thorough explanation. It really seems like you want a crystal ball instead, to determine if you are going to graduate and get the residency of your choice with SGU. Funny thing is I know someone with your background. Sales rep in medical devices, that didn't just want to sell items that help people, but want to help people himself. He didn't match this year. Going to the Caribbeans alone will set you back for the match. I'll reiterate, I didn't had issues with the education overall. Classes were tough, office hours were available, tutoring was available, and there were multiple resources to do well in your classes. Rotations were fine, since I rotated with US MD/DO in all my places; I didn't had trouble organizing rotations. Taking the USMLE wasn't a daunting task, since my education prepared me for it (except for my Step 2CK dropping to around 225-230 range).

The issue is when it comes to residency application time. You can tell the tone towards SGU from people that are in basic science/MS3 compared to MS4/Graduates. Once you apply for residency you realize the tremendous uphill battle for the match.

1) You are competing against other Caribbean graduates. You have the same amount or decreasing amount of residency spots that look at Caribbean graduates, but there has been a huge expansion of Caribbean schools. In past 4 years, 3 other Caribbean schools received Title IV loans (SABA,MUA, and AUA). UMHS is getting pretty big also (they don't have Title IV loans, but instead advise student to do an online MBA to gather living expense loans). Class sizes are also getting larger, but the match list for these Caribbean schools are at it's peak. 850 people from SGU match this year, but I think 870 matched last year. Shouldn't the numbers go up, not down?
2) It's a crapshoot sometimes. I know people with 190's/220's with 15+ FM interviews (but they applied to 200FM spot) while 200's/220's with 9 interviews after applying to 200FM places. To place that into perspective, you are applying to 10x the amount of places a person that is a US MD/DO will apply to with similar scores. With lower return and match rate. Some will match with significant red flags such as getting kicked out of US MD for DUI and then match into EM after going to SGU. Then there will be people (IE me) with no red flags as I mention that don't match. If you read the link about the not matching into Psychiatry, there are 2 others along with me with (semi-solid) scores. BTW that's just the people that even post on SDN, which is a very small sample size. Think about all the others that don't post here.
3) The cost of failure is high. Right now you have a successful career, but how easy will it be to get the job back if you left? "Hey, I left for 4 years to an off-shore school, failed to get a residency spot to become a doctor, can I have my old job back?"
4) You don't even know what you want. One minute you are talking about wanting FM/Psych, next you are talking about Orthopedics (which is an endeavor of itself for a US MD graduate, I shudder to think about applying for this as a SGU grad). Specialties competitiveness go in cycle. 4 years ago, applying for radiology/anesthesiology was tough as a SGU grad. This year I know people with similar or lower scores get multiple interviews as mine, and match. What you want that is competitive or not competitive now, might not hold true in 4 years (or 5 years if you fail a class like 40% of my classmates).
5) I say apply for NP/PA school if you don't get into a US MD/DO school. With the way their lobbying is going.....You would think they are equivalent to someone with 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 3 years residency....(not that it's true, but most people don't know unless they are in the medical field)

That's really my piece truckboat. I highly recommend you just stop over analyzing this, and just view SGU as a non-option overall. Also do the right thing as an older brother, and stop your little brother from going. The school is pretty friendly with you right now, because you aren't in it. You know what happened when I didn't match? I get a 1 hour PowerPoint lecture about my options (not very informative) . A 5 minute prep talk with my adviser, and that was it. I'm pretty much on my own as of right now. School isn't going to offer much support once you don't match. If you still need more persuasion, please PM me.

 

[raizen91]

truckboat, I understand you want a thorough explanation. It really seems like you want a crystal ball instead, to determine if you are going to graduate and get the residency of your choice with SGU. Funny thing is I know someone with your background. Sales rep in medical devices, that didn't just want to sell items that help people, but want to help people himself. He didn't match this year. Going to the Caribbeans alone will set you back for the match. I'll reiterate, I didn't had issues with the education overall. Classes were tough, office hours were available, tutoring was available, and there were multiple resources to do well in your classes. Rotations were fine, since I rotated with US MD/DO in all my places; I didn't had trouble organizing rotations. Taking the USMLE wasn't a daunting task, since my education prepared me for it (except for my Step 2CK dropping to around 225-230 range).

The issue is when it comes to residency application time. You can tell the tone towards SGU from people that are in basic science/MS3 compared to MS4/Graduates. Once you apply for residency you realize the tremendous uphill battle for the match.

1) You are competing against other Caribbean graduates. You have the same amount or decreasing amount of residency spots that look at Caribbean graduates, but there has been a huge expansion of Caribbean schools. In past 4 years, 3 other Caribbean schools received Title IV loans (SABA,MUA, and AUA). UMHS is getting pretty big also (they don't have Title IV loans, but instead advise student to do an online MBA to gather living expense loans). Class sizes are also getting larger, but the match list for these Caribbean schools are at it's peak. 850 people from SGU match this year, but I think 870 matched last year. Shouldn't the numbers go up, not down?
2) It's a crapshoot sometimes. I know people with 190's/220's with 15+ FM interviews (but they applied to 200FM spot) while 200's/220's with 9 interviews after applying to 200FM places. To place that into perspective, you are applying to 10x the amount of places a person that is a US MD/DO will apply to with similar scores. With lower return and match rate. Some will match with significant red flags such as getting kicked out of US MD for DUI and then match into EM after going to SGU. Then there will be people (IE me) with no red flags as I mention that don't match. If you read the link about the not matching into Psychiatry, there are 2 others along with me with (semi-solid) scores. BTW that's just the people that even post on SDN, which is a very small sample size. Think about all the others that don't post here.
3) The cost of failure is high. Right now you have a successful career, but how easy will it be to get the job back if you left? "Hey, I left for 4 years to an off-shore school, failed to get a residency spot to become a doctor, can I have my old job back?"
4) You don't even know what you want. One minute you are talking about wanting FM/Psych, next you are talking about Orthopedics (which is an endeavor of itself for a US MD graduate, I shudder to think about applying for this as a SGU grad). Specialties competitiveness go in cycle. 4 years ago, applying for radiology/anesthesiology was tough as a SGU grad. This year I know people with similar or lower scores get multiple interviews as mine, and match. What you want that is competitive or not competitive now, might not hold true in 4 years (or 5 years if you fail a class like 40% of my classmates).
5) I say apply for NP/PA school if you don't get into a US MD/DO school. With the way their lobbying is going.....You would think they are equivalent to someone with 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 3 years residency....(not that it's true, but most people don't know unless they are in the medical field)

That's really my piece truckboat. I highly recommend you just stop over analyzing this, and just view SGU as a non-option overall. Also do the right thing as an older brother, and stop your little brother from going. The school is pretty friendly with you right now, because you aren't in it. You know what happened when I didn't match? I get a 1 hour PowerPoint lecture about my options (not very informative) . A 5 minute prep talk with my adviser, and that was it. I'm pretty much on my own as of right now. School isn't going to offer much support once you don't match. If you still need more persuasion, please PM me.

 

[raizen91]

According to the publications of the past two matches on the SGU website, the number of students who matched increased in 2016.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

According to the publications of the past two matches on the SGU website, the number of students who matched increased in 2016.

Class sizes are most likely bigger too. That doesn't mean anything really. You don't know how many are first time applicants and how many are on their second, third, or more times trying to match.

 

[truckboat]

Man what the heck is with people on here chewing someone out for not knowing what specific specialty they want into? .. If you haven't lived it ( gone thru a rotation ) you don't know truly what it's like. Just like people say- most students will change their specialty scope when they go thru rotations.

This forum is very helpful but it can be brutal.

Thx I feel for you man. And your story along with a few others is going to keep me in USA working & apply to med school here.. I need 6-8 more points on the MCAT and I'm a competitive applicant! Not too hard to up each section by 2-3 points. I can do it. And if I can't I'll definitely go the PA route after a few years. I appreciate everyone who helped out. Anyone who chimed in with negative BS can disappear and hopefully be banned.

 

[truckboat]

I am not looking for a crystal ball. I came here looking for opinions and stories from people who've done it and from people who are in the big boy chairs of choosing residents.

This forum can be absolute poison.
BUT, It can also be life saving.

To all of you who helped out, you're great people and I really appreciate your time and energy that went into helping me with my decision.

To anyone who trolled or Seemed rude, I hope everything is okay and I want you to know I still love you.



Peace and love,

-truckboat

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Man what the heck is with people on here chewing someone out for not knowing what specific specialty they want into? .. If you haven't lived it ( gone thru a rotation ) you don't know truly what it's like. Just like people say- most students will change their specialty scope when they go thru rotations.

This forum is very helpful but it can be brutal.

Thx I feel for you man. And your story along with a few others is going to keep me in USA working & apply to med school here.. I need 6-8 more points on the MCAT and I'm a competitive applicant! Not too hard to up each section by 2-3 points. I can do it. And if I can't I'll definitely go the PA route after a few years. I appreciate everyone who helped out. Anyone who chimed in with negative BS can disappear and hopefully be banned.

Hopefully this has helped you. But just be aware, sometimes the truth is painful to hear. Sometimes people word it in ways that are different than you would or that you would like. They have just as much right to post (within the TOS and not in a hateful or attacking manner), so they won't be banned. If someone posts that you don't like, there's always the ignore function. It can make things easier for you, but can also make it harder for people if they just ignore people who's opinions they don't like.

Hard work and effort with a good improvement in your MCAT will open a world of opportunities for you. It's up to you to make that happen. Put the same drive you have as a device rep towards the MCAT and see where life takes you.

 

[truckboat]

Hopefully this has helped you. But just be aware, sometimes the truth is painful to hear. Sometimes people word it in ways that are different than you would or that you would like. They have just as much right to post (within the TOS and not in a hateful or attacking manner), so they won't be banned. If someone posts that you don't like, there's always the ignore function. It can make things easier for you, but can also make it harder for people if they just ignore people who's opinions they don't like.

Hard work and effort with a good improvement in your MCAT will open a world of opportunities for you. It's up to you to make that happen. Put the same drive you have as a device rep towards the MCAT and see where life takes you.

Thoracic guy, I'd like to thank you especially for your help. You and others who put forward the research and the hard facts about what I would be getting myself into- you have saved my life.



I really mean that too.

I can't thank all of you enough.

If I misunderstood people who seemed to be trolling or rude, Then that is my fault. And I apologize for misunderstanding.

But to everyone who put research links, personal stories & hard facts- you saved my life. You saved me from a potentially DEVASTATING outcome that I would have never seen coming.

The truth was hard to hear at first, but once I started investigating I began to appreciate the truth being dished out my way.

I haven't made a full on decision yet.
But I appreciate the facts.

Thank you a million times

 

[truckboat]

Apply when you have a good application. That may mean waiting another year or two. You don't want to be a reapplicant if you can avoid it.

My good friend was rejected from the medical school in our state 3 times in a row & on the 4th try he got in....

So reapplication attempts aren't that bad...... Right?

 

[truckboat]

Hopefully this has helped you. But just be aware, sometimes the truth is painful to hear. Sometimes people word it in ways that are different than you would or that you would like. They have just as much right to post (within the TOS and not in a hateful or attacking manner), so they won't be banned. If someone posts that you don't like, there's always the ignore function.

Thanks for this! I am new to forums altogether & didn't realize I could ignore. It's not that I don't like their opinion, I just feel if you seem to have a rude attitude & seem to have not read the evolution in my thinking throughout the post- there shouldn't be comments like a few people have posted on here.

 

[ArsèneLupin]

My good friend was rejected from the medical school in our state 3 times in a row & on the 4th try he got in....

So reapplication attempts aren't that bad...... Right?

To make any progress as a re applicant you need to show improvement on your application in addition to staying consistent with your activities. Better usually to not have to be a reapplicant

 

[truckboat]

Excellent account from an SGU drop out:

http://www.tameersiddiqui.com/medical-school-at-sgu

 

[raizen91]

Excellent account from an SGU drop out:

http://www.tameersiddiqui.com/medical-school-at-sgu

Read this, the thing is a joke. This guy was not cut out to do well in any medical school. SGU provides you with the necessary tools to succeed and get residency PROVIDED you put in the work. This guy seemingly complained and over-exagerrated every small thing at SGU. I just completed my first term there, and myself and all my friends did very well and the school is great. The people who didn't simply were not cut out to be there in the first place. SGU is a great school if you are honest with yourself with respect to the fact that you need to put in the work to receive very high grades and board scores...if you think you will just show up and it will be handed to you then you will gone after term 1. The vast majority of students who don't make it through are gone by the end of term 1. The help at SGU was great and they had tons of resources, Tameer obviously was not up to the task.