Student Loan Crisis Picking Up Steam

[mercaptovizadeh]

al;so, I just wanted to say that my husband and I have ~120K in private loans between us and their current average interest rate is 4.75%. I know it isn't fixed, but compared to my 8.5% Grad Plus, the principal is staying much steadier while we are in school.

Consolidate those as fast as you can. My sister had some privates that were not fixed. It started at 4.5% and ended at 9% and was only going up. In the end, her principal went from 75K to 83K (they were underestimating interest and applying any excess to the principal). She consolidated to 8.3% as soon as she found someone who would do it.

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[Ttan]

Its all about post med school bankruptcy declarations.... ohhhh yeeeeaaaahhhhh

 

[Mistress S]

Its all about post med school bankruptcy declarations.... ohhhh yeeeeaaaahhhhh

Um, haven't you been reading this thread (or any information about student loans in general)? They are extremely difficult to discharge in bankruptcy. The courts apply a different standard to student loan debt in which you must prove that repaying your debt would cause "undue hardship." Otherwise most of the people described on that forum, and many of us no doubt, might consider taking that way out.

 

[medicinesux]

[YOUTUBE]pj5CcYSAjq8[/YOUTUBE]

skip the intro and start at 0:45. See, even Suze agrees with me. Momentum is building.

 

[medicinesux]

Saw this posted today on the above mentioned facebook group-

"I have a BA in Psychology (a supposedly 'diverse' degree that would allow many options after graduation) that gave me around $30K in debt. I actually got a decent-paying job managing a restaurant but was laid off. So what did I do, to compensate from having a salary to having nothing? I'm a stripper now. And I'm the most educated person in the ****ing building. And even though I take my clothes off for a living now, I still can barely pay my 3 student loans, car payment, insurance, credit card bills and phone bill. I live at home b/c I can't afford another bill right now. Awesome."

 

[pgg]

Saw this posted today on the above mentioned facebook group-

"I have a BA in Psychology (a supposedly 'diverse' degree that would allow many options after graduation) that gave me around $30K in debt. I actually got a decent-paying job managing a restaurant but was laid off. So what did I do, to compensate from having a salary to having nothing? I'm a stripper now. And I'm the most educated person in the ****ing building. And even though I take my clothes off for a living now, I still can barely pay my 3 student loans, car payment, insurance, credit card bills and phone bill. I live at home b/c I can't afford another bill right now. Awesome."

C'mon man, the problem here isn't the oppressive student loans, it's the fact that she was laid off and is unemployed. $30K at 8% over 15 years is under $300/month. Absolutely, totally, completely manageable debt.

She's unemployed, not the victim of predatory lending or even bad judgment.

 

[medicinesux]

C'mon man, the problem here isn't the oppressive student loans, it's the fact that she was laid off and is unemployed. $30K at 8% over 15 years is under $300/month. Absolutely, totally, completely manageable debt.

She's unemployed, not the victim of predatory lending or even bad judgment.

Perhaps her debtload is on the lower end, but to say that her debt is "absolutely, totally, completely manageable" is farcical. If so, then why did this college educated woman resort to stripping? Because she thought it would be a lot of fun? It is not like she is banking six figures here either like yourself. With the economy in the toilet and six people competing for every single job in the marketplace right now, we are looking at a serious onslaught of student loan defaults. Banks were willing to do whatever it took to get naive 18-19 year olds to sign that promissory note so they could have access to a lifetime's worth of income streams. As I've said before, student loans have the potential to inflict unimaginable mental anguish as they follow you to the grave and even beyond. Check out this video of Sallie Mae hunting down their money from this mom's dead son.

[YOUTUBE]_RSqTlfknmI[/YOUTUBE]

This behavior is beyond predatory, it is outright evil.

 

[slight365]

The only way to collapse the system is to let it collapse. I'm surprised people are even outraged of the commercialisation of something that is essential and good for society.

The big corporations got bailouts, but again, the people doing something that is good for society and puts a ****load of money into it, get screwed.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Perhaps her debtload is on the lower end, but to say that her debt is "absolutely, totally, completely manageable" is farcical. If so, then why did this college educated woman resort to stripping? Because she thought it would be a lot of fun? It is not like she is banking six figures here either like yourself. With the economy in the toilet and six people competing for every single job in the marketplace right now, we are looking at a serious onslaught of student loan defaults. Banks were willing to do whatever it took to get naive 18-19 year olds to sign that promissory note so they could have access to a lifetime's worth of income streams. As I've said before, student loans have the potential to inflict unimaginable mental anguish as they follow you to the grave and even beyond. Check out this video of Sallie Mae hunting down their money from this mom's dead son.

[YOUTUBE]_RSqTlfknmI[/YOUTUBE]

This behavior is beyond predatory, it is outright evil.

I saw the video. The lady doesn't seem as angry as I get watching it. She's amazingly calm considering the gall of this filth. These loansharks are scum.

 

[blanche]

I saw the video. The lady doesn't seem as angry as I get watching it. She's amazingly calm considering the gall of this filth. These loansharks are scum.

i'm not surprised at all. i've spent HOURS on the phone with the slime de'sallie mae. they always do that crap--tell you that they don't have to give you identifying information and then go ahead and hurl insults and attitude. this is when i've called to try to rectify their messups, mind you...

 

[medicinesux]

Over the past week, I have made numerous postings about the emerging student loan crisis. I was prompted to focus in on this issue after hearing of a contest here on SDN to see who would have the highest debt after graduating from med school. Needless to say I was horrified. After awarding Tufts Medical School the prize for having the highest tuition and fees in the nation, a lot of discussion erupted over this.
I was contacted by Ms. C. Cryn Johannsen, the Promotional Writer and Director of Marketing for the Forgive Student Loan Debt Movement (founded by Robert Applebaum whose facebook group now has over 232,000 members and climbing as of this writing). I get many emails from colleagues venting their frustration over the state of healthcare who ask how they can help but often feel powerless. Here is one recent particular message, “For one thing, what can any resident do about tuition costs? We paid our tuitions and moved on. We made the decisions, good or bad, to attend expensive med schools over state schools 5 years ago. What good is posting about tuition costs going to do for us NOW? We made our beds already and now have to live with the consequences.”
Regarding the student loan issue, I too had similar feelings. However, with the passage of IBR as a part of the College Cost and Reduction Act of 2007 and the introduction of a new president a glimmer of hope appeared. With student loans ballooning out of control more must be done. The massive debt loads are only fueling the fire to the rising cost of healthcare in this country. The president has asked for ideas from the public in how to better control costs in healthcare…Obama are you listening?
Your voices are being heard and I strongly believe that change can and will happen. I strongly encourage everyone to show their support of this grassroots movement by chipping in a mere $5 (which will be less than your nearly useless AMSA dues but will actually mean something) to buy a bumper sticker. Though I would’ve preferred my bumper sticker to read, “My other house is my student loans”, I eagerly await for mine in the mail. Now at least everyone will understand why a new attending is still driving around in a clunker. Though you may not agree with forgiving student loans and prefer paying every dollar back with loan shark interest rates, this will at least heighten the awareness of this serious issue facing so many of us.

 

[QofQuimica]

This week over on the nontrad forum they are having a contest. Can anyone top this guy's 510K projected debt?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=670029

Can someone please go over and knock some sense into some of these delusional premeds. Medicinesux has somehow developed a headache and needs to go to bed!

This user is an extreme example and not the norm for premeds in general, never mind nontrads. Nearly everyone on that forum has had some time out in the real world; some have even put away significant sums of money and can afford to finance much of their med school education out of pocket. The fact that she (not he!) felt the need to even post that thread testifies to her uncomfortable awareness that her debt load is extreme.

It's interesting to see how people make financial decisions in general, not just about student debt. People's debt situation is about much more than choosing postsecondary schools: there often seems to be a notion that "more expensive" means "better" in various arenas of people's lives: cars, vacations, clothes, bottled water, and so on. In other words, the taking on of exorbitant postsecondary school debt is part of a general pattern of spending in many (probably most) people's lives.

Also, when it comes to these kinds of decisions, many people are not willing to walk away when the odds are grossly unfavorable. The truth is that none of us absolutely needs to be a physician. There are many other jobs out there that cater to a love of science, allow you to help people, and would provide a reasonable income without breaking the bank to get there. But somehow, many people get stuck in this headspace that nothing short of being a physician will do, a viewpoint which has always somewhat bemused me. Had I been in the position of the user who started that thread (i.e., already in six figure debt and only accepted to one expensive private school with full loans), I would have simply not gone to medical school: definitely not that year, and possibly not ever. I realize that basing my decision about whether to matriculate in medical school in large part based on financial feasibility would be unacceptable to many people, and I will be the first one to acknowledge that my spending habits make me relatively eccentric. But for me, avoiding that kind of debt matters so much that I would rather have never gone to medical school than to be a physician in her unfortunate position.

 

[Sneezing]

This user is an extreme example and not the norm for premeds in general, never mind nontrads. Nearly everyone on that forum has had some time out in the real world; some have even put away significant sums of money and can afford to finance much of their med school education out of pocket. The fact that she (not he!) felt the need to even post that thread testifies to her uncomfortable awareness that her debt load is extreme.

It's interesting to see how people make financial decisions in general, not just about student debt. People's debt situation is about much more than choosing postsecondary schools: there often seems to be a notion that "more expensive" means "better" in various arenas of people's lives: cars, vacations, clothes, bottled water, and so on. In other words, the taking on of exorbitant postsecondary school debt is part of a general pattern of spending in many (probably most) people's lives.

Also, when it comes to these kinds of decisions, many people are not willing to walk away when the odds are grossly unfavorable. The truth is that none of us absolutely needs to be a physician. There are many other jobs out there that cater to a love of science, allow you to help people, and would provide a reasonable income without breaking the bank to get there. But somehow, many people get stuck in this headspace that nothing short of being a physician will do, a viewpoint which has always somewhat bemused me. Had I been in the position of the user who started that thread (i.e., already in six figure debt and only accepted to one expensive private school with full loans), I would have simply not gone to medical school: definitely not that year, and possibly not ever. I realize that basing my decision about whether to matriculate in medical school in large part based on financial feasibility would be unacceptable to many people, and I will be the first one to acknowledge that my spending habits make me relatively eccentric. But for me, avoiding that kind of debt matters so much that I would rather have never gone to medical school than to be a physician in her unfortunate position.

Exactly. The problem isn't the student loan industry. The problem is an individual who doesn't plan and take responsibility for their actions.

The days of going to college just to find yourself with out any idea of what you will do afterwards are over. There isn't room for such ineffeciency in the economy or in a person's pocket book. It makes no sense to take out a large amount of loans for a degree that has minimal chances of paying it back. Right now, medicine is still capable of paying back the 200-250K amount in the lowest paid specialty. I'm not worried. But this is the cusp of how high it can go. As it pushes higher people will need to be more cautious in their school/living/specialty choices.

The system doesn't need to collapse or forgive people's loans. What we need are more dumb*****e$ who don't know how to manage money create a nice warning story for the rest of us to think before we leap. This isn't rocket science.

 

[slight365]

The problem aren't even the students. It's the universities and the business-like structure of the educational system, which, on an increasing basis, favors the wealthy and will progress the country towards a bigger division between rich and poor.

 

[medicinesux]

The problem aren't even the students. It's the universities and the business-like structure of the educational system, which, on an increasing basis, favors the wealthy and will progress the country towards a bigger division between rich and poor.

WORD

 

[Sneezing]

Doubtful. As it is right now, only 60-70% of people who attempt college will graduate with a degree. All the current system will do is make people more goal oriented and quite certain of their objectives. There will be less major changes.

The problem is our whole country spends too much. The government. The businesses. And even the people.

We need a cultural change to be mindful of our money and as long as there are bailouts people will never learn.

 

[medcourses09]

My wife and I graduating with $60k of undergradaute debt (combined between the both of us). I moved back in with my parents while working two full-time jobs to get 50% of it paid off. My wife put 100% of her income to paying back the other 50%. We lived off my second full-time income. We had it paid off in 15 months. Now, the lifestyle we lived during this time (only having time to cuddle on the weekends) is not what you go to college for.

 

[pgg]

Perhaps her debtload is on the lower end, but to say that her debt is "absolutely, totally, completely manageable" is farcical.

$300/month is manageable debt for a college graduate, even ones with silly artsy degrees. Her payment was probably less than $300/month since my math was conservative and assumed a relatively high interest rate and short repayment period. Make it 6% and 30 years and it's $180/month.

But you've got to be employed. Again, this particular case you've presented is a problem with the economy and the fact that she was unemployed, not the source of her debt. Come on, stay focused on actual problems here.

If so, then why did this college educated woman resort to stripping?

Because she was unemployed?

Because she thought it would be a lot of fun?

Mabye the air conditioning was broken.

Check out this video of Sallie Mae hunting down their money from this mom's dead son.

Nah, I'm not interested in chasing around your moving goalposts.

 

[LADoc00]

I was saying this since 92. All we needed was a major financial blow up to send the whole system over the edge.
Student loans are the big white elephant pretty much no one is talking about.

We are looking at mass defaults on student debt.
Mass closures of private universities as students flock to cheaper alternatives.
Mass collapses of some graduate programs.
General pandemodium for all the greedy universities that somehow think charging 50 grand/year for "education" is fair market...

 

[ChiDO]

I finally understand why so many pre-meds could care less about our "worry about debt message when picking medical school." Look at this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=673633

Over half of the pre-meds have $0 debt. Lucky them!

 

[slight365]

I've got to be honest in saying that while it wouldn't have been so personally fulfilling, had I gone into sanitation, transit, law enforcement, or anything else with a 20 year retirement, I'd be just a few short years away from retirement before 40, then onto either a part, or full-time job elsewhere, and then some savings, more money, great benefits, etc.

Regardless, yes, the loan companies are lending to make money, but there is a significant amount of exploitation, as we're groomed towards higher education, and then when we try to get that higher education, we're hit with the realities of debt to attain those levels.

 

[Doowai]

"My husband went to Chiropractic school and acquired a huge amount in student loans...approx $270,000. He has been out of school for almost 4 years now and has been unsuccessful at passing his National Boards. His loans are now coming into repayment and he is by far making the money of a Chiropractor to pay the loans. Some are federal loans, which I know HE HAS TO PAY, but some are private loans. Does anyone know what he can do so he can postpone re-payments? I know he has deferred then as long as he can...and he tried to file for forbearance, but since his Father is a co-signer on the loans, they were not approved. PLEASE HELP US!!!!!" Thanks.

Wow, what is Chiropractic tuition these days? When I went to chiro school it was ~$1700 my first trimester and by my 4th trimester it was $3000 (so about $9K a year for tuition, and then there was books , instruments blah blah blah). I was $67 K in debt when I graduated - I lived cheap. Even then it took me years to pay off the debt - my wife and I shared a car for 4 years (Ford Tempo) just to keep expenses down so we could pay that stupid debt off fast.

I was lucky to graduate medical school with no debt, via selling a business. Sorry to hear about that. And sorry for his dad - that has to put some strain on their relationship. When my dad died this summer I was soooooo glad there was no unfinished business. No hard feelings, nothing left unsaid. As I watched him pass, there was no woulda shoulda coulda's.

 

[Substance]

Universities have lost their true purpose.

In the past, only the best and brightest would even be considered for university attendance. Such a place of complex discussion and theorization was not tolerant of accepting those with below average intelligence and work ethic.

In ancient Greece, the brilliant who were accepted to university all took the same bachleor's degree, and all learned the same things: rhetoric, logic, and oratory. Only then were they permitted to expand their interests to other fields. It was a rigorous intellectual journey that only the intelligent could manage.

Now, everyone, smart or dumb, and with a bit of cash can go to university. It's not the learning that universities are offering now, its the degree. A piece of paper that, once procured, makes you "more marketable." Class sizes of thousands and offering rote-memorization and standardization of curricula to students, many of whom cannot add two plus two, does not offer anything of tangible benefit to the students or to society. In fact, it cheapens the process for those who are capable of performing exceptionally. Should not the intelligent be more valued in society?

I hope this bubble bursts - soon. Universities should go back to being places of complexity, not of stupidity. They should be extremely exclusive.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Wow, what is Chiropractic tuition these days? When I went to chiro school it was ~$1700 my first trimester and by my 4th trimester it was $3000 (so about $9K a year for tuition, and then there was books , instruments blah blah blah). I was $67 K in debt when I graduated - I lived cheap. Even then it took me years to pay off the debt - my wife and I shared a car for 4 years (Ford Tempo) just to keep expenses down so we could pay that stupid debt off fast.

I was lucky to graduate medical school with no debt, via selling a business. Sorry to hear about that. And sorry for his dad - that has to put some strain on their relationship. When my dad died this summer I was soooooo glad there was no unfinished business. No hard feelings, nothing left unsaid. As I watched him pass, there was no woulda shoulda coulda's.

Holy handgrenades batman! Doowai is back! Last post was March....

 

[Sneezing]

Universities have lost their true purpose.

In the past, only the best and brightest would even be considered for university attendance. Such a place of complex discussion and theorization was not tolerant of accepting those with below average intelligence and work ethic.

In ancient Greece, the brilliant who were accepted to university all took the same bachleor's degree, and all learned the same things: rhetoric, logic, and oratory. Only then were they permitted to expand their interests to other fields. It was a rigorous intellectual journey that only the intelligent could manage.

Now, everyone, smart or dumb, and with a bit of cash can go to university. It's not the learning that universities are offering now, its the degree. A piece of paper that, once procured, makes you "more marketable." Class sizes of thousands and offering rote-memorization and standardization of curricula to students, many of whom cannot add two plus two, does not offer anything of tangible benefit to the students or to society. In fact, it cheapens the process for those who are capable of performing exceptionally. Should not the intelligent be more valued in society?

I hope this bubble bursts - soon. Universities should go back to being places of complexity, not of stupidity. They should be extremely exclusive.

Good. I'm glad universities lost their true purpose. Considering your measure of true purpose is a degree that involved rhetoric, logic, oratory. They didn't have much understanding beyond that. So what were they doing with those degrees? Flapping their gums and nothing more.

You make no sense. In one instance you are critical that they had a standard degree for all, and then you criticize that we have standardized exams and curriculum in some places.

We also have a greater fund of knowledge. We can't learn it all. We need to have division of knowledge and specialization. With that specialization will come deficits that are basic and simple to others.

And finally, so what? Who cares if we are training people and giving degrees to those who aren't that bright? I'm quite certain they are learning something. And even if they aren't, it doesn't change the fact they will quickly lose their job. I would rather err on the side of training too many people than training too few and having potential wasted.

As for fostering creativity, college will never have a monopoly on that. It is well known that it isn't the smartest or brightest in highschool who make the most entrepenurial advancements, because they are less accepting of risk. Those who are a ring below them have enough intelligence AND the kahoonas to RISK making change. College will never capture all of these people.

You must have spent too much time in college.

 

[Sneezing]

One reason many universities are charging more is the same reason health insurance is going up. In other words, Covering your ***** from lawyers. It costs money to keep lawyers away...

-Mandated student health insurance
-Increased security personnel
-insurance for drunken accidents
-greater housing costs because the buildings are more expensive due to building restrictions
-more buildings. Many universities get funds every year that must be spent on buildings otherwise the money is lost. More buildings means more upkeep, more personnel, and more insurance.

 

[pgg]

In ancient Greece, the brilliant who were accepted to university all took the same bachleor's degree, and all learned the same things: rhetoric, logic, and oratory. Only then were they permitted to expand their interests to other fields. It was a rigorous intellectual journey that only the intelligent could manage.

If those brilliant minds had the luxury and opportunity of a US public school primary and secondary education, they wouldn't have needed to waste their university years on rhetoric, logic, and oratory.

They could've split their time between their actual academic interests and drunken debauchery, the way we modern brilliant minds did.

 

[notinkansas]

ry_90923.pdf[/URL]

The Obama Administration is pushing for the creation of a new Consumer Financial Protection Agency (CFPA), which would protect consumers from risky financial products and services, including private student loans. A strong CFPA could help protect private loan borrowers from deceptive marketing and unfair loan terms and treatment.

”[/B].[/SIZE]

Oh, yes, the government will save us!!! (gag).

Sorry, you're not going to get much sympathy from me. You created your situation. You're going to have to live with it now. You'll have to leave cheap and drive beater cars and pay most of your money to the student loan people. The party is over. For a lot of people.

I have about $250K in student loan debt from a master's degree/MD. I'm working a position I don't like just to survive. Most of my debt, is goverment backed student loan debt, so I've been able to defer while I address the private debt. Still, even the government debt is like the Terminator....it will relentlessly come after you no matter what. I had an issue during residency in which they refused to grant deferral and came after me...it sucked. I dealt with it. I survived.

 

[medicinesux]

From today's NY Times, "23 College Presidents made more than 1 million dollars" including those of the highly esteemed Suffolk University and University of Tulsa:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/education/02college.html?_r=1

Also of interesting note, the avg salary of a private college president increased 5.5% in the most recent year over year whereas millions got pink slips. Good to know that our govt fully funds the higher education cartel in this country by supplying an endless stream of funding via plentiful ever increasing student loans. Sounds eerily similar to that of the shady mortgage loan officer writing a million dollar jumbo loan to that fast food dishwasher so he can move into that McMansion.

[YOUTUBE]AIcfMMVcYZg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[dotdash]

That video clip argument is silly. Basically he is saying: there were no guaranteed student loans in 1810 and there are now; Yale cost $33 a year in 1810 and $36,500 now -- ergo, the presence of guaranteed student loans caused Yale's tuition to go up. As if everything else was exactly the same between now and 1810. NOT a gifted thinker.

Guaranteed student loans are partially driven by the (worthwhile) desire for everyone to be able to go to college. Without a loan, most students could not afford college tuition. Where only the wealthy can go to college, it creates a self-perpetuating class system.

These days, colleges compete with each other on the basis of extremely expensive physical plants: new science buildings, student dorms with all single rooms, state-of-the-art gyms and practice fields -- these are incredibly expensive offerings. And kids go to the colleges that have them. So market preferences themselves are driving college tuitions up. If everyone was happy with what Yale offered in 1810 -- no residences, a few dissolute Latin teachers, and a library of 30 books -- then tuitions would still be low.

It's not so easy to figure out what the right answer is.

 

[pgg]

From today's NY Times, "23 College Presidents made more than 1 million dollars" including those of the highly esteemed Suffolk University and University of Tulsa:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/education/02college.html?_r=1

Also of interesting note, the avg salary of a private college president increased 5.5% in the most recent year over year whereas millions got pink slips. Good to know that our govt fully funds the higher education cartel in this country by supplying an endless stream of funding via plentiful ever increasing student loans. Sounds eerily similar to that of the shady mortgage loan officer writing a million dollar jumbo loan to that fast food dishwasher so he can move into that McMansion.

The highest paid college president earns $1,598,247 per that article at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, which has about 7500 students.

If you fired and didn't replace her, you could distribute her salary in whatever charitable, pinko-commie socialist way you like ... a whopping $200 per student. And this is an extreme case - the median salary was $627,750, less at public institutions (which are themselves cheaper).

College president salaries have little to do with the cost of education and since their salaries aren't based on a per-student commission, your analogy to dishonest realtors and mortgage brokers making bad loans for quick personal profits (to the tune of 5-10% in closing costs) is just nauseatingly poor. What's more, college presidents haven't run their sector of the economy into the ground - universities in the United States, even the University of Tulsa, offer an education on par with 1st-world universities anywhere else, and the argument that high pay is needed to attract and retain leadership talent can't just be laughed away like this is the banking industry.

Your outrage is misplaced.

 

[medicinesux]

The highest paid college president earns $1,598,247 per that article at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, which has about 7500 students.

If you fired and didn't replace her, you could distribute her salary in whatever charitable, pinko-commie socialist way you like ... a whopping $200 per student. And this is an extreme case - the median salary was $627,750, less at public institutions (which are themselves cheaper).

College president salaries have little to do with the cost of education and since their salaries aren't based on a per-student commission, your analogy to dishonest realtors and mortgage brokers making bad loans for quick personal profits (to the tune of 5-10% in closing costs) is just nauseatingly poor. What's more, college presidents haven't run their sector of the economy into the ground - universities in the United States, even the University of Tulsa, offer an education on par with 1st-world universities anywhere else, and the argument that high pay is needed to attract and retain leadership talent can't just be laughed away like this is the banking industry.

Your outrage is misplaced.

I vehemently disagree. My outrage is appropriately targeted. When the president of the University of Tulsa makes four times as much as the President of the most powerful nation on the face of the earth (at least for now), something is seriously out of kilter. $200 per student is a lot, if you ask me, when you consider this is per JUST ONE administrator spread over 8000 students. Imagine if the govt reimbursed you this much for every patient you saw in a year? That is an F Load of money. So don't trivialize the amount by dividing it to some seemingly small number because it is NOT. Throw in a couple more deans and countless other college bureaucrats and you are in the thousands in no time. To deny that access to easy cash has not added fuel to rising tuition costs (hence my real estate comparison which you erroneously interpreted to support your commission based fallacy) is "nauseatingly naive" IMO.

 

[smq123]

Seeing as the thread is evolving more into a general discussion of college/university costs, moving to Financial Aid.

 

[dragonfly99]

I think that there is no doubt that the availability of large amounts of gov't backed student loans has driven up college tuition. If students didn't have access to high amounts of Stafford loans, you wouldn't see tuitions, particularly at private colleges, keep rising at rates greater than inflation. I also agree this is a complex issue in the sense that I couldn't support just doing away with gov't backed student loans; I don't think we want to go back to a pre World War II type situation where only families with money could send their kids to college. Both my grandfathers didn't have the opportunity to go to college because they came from poor families. One of them definitely regretted it his entire life, even though he ended up as a respected bank employee in our community. He was very very smart and would have been a great bank president, business major, accountant, or something similar. I think the question is how do we guarantee some sort of access to higher education without encouraging colleges to spend like drunken sailors?

I do think the public is partly at fault simply because students are still picking colleges based on the ones with the most fancy buildings, etc. rather than based on what goes on in the classrooms. I don't think loan forgiveness is the way to fix this - at least not large scale loan forgiveness, though it may be necessary for some. Part of this is the results of people's bad choices...some felt entitled to borrow money for multiple bachelor's degress, then professional degrees, etc. Sooner or later you gotta pay the piper. However, the case of med school and some other grad schools, you have not so many choices sometimes...if you're only accepted to one or two private schools that are very expensive, then you have to choose to pay or not be a doctor. I do think the 6.8% or so student loan interest seems excessive and it seems like the banks could make money on these while still charging a lower rate, like 4-5%. I'd be curious to hear what someone from the financial industry think?

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Hi,

What will we do? There is no way we can pay, we don't make 7,000$ a month. Also, I am willing to pay with 50% or even 70% of our income as long as we have food, shelter, and medical care.

Please give me any advise you can think of.

Karla

You said that Canada allows you to discharge student loans after 7 years of bankruptcy. Are you Canadian? Why not just move back to Canada and declare bankruptcy. Sounds like a good option for you if that works out. The US will have a health care system like Canada soon enough anyhow.

 

[medicinesux]

To DrMillisevert,
No I am not Canadian. Though the thought of emigrating to Montreal or Vancouver is rather appealing. Visited Montreal for the first time recently and LOVED it! I sometimes wonder why Canadian cities are consistently in the top 10 best cities to live in the world list whereas USA cities are nowhere to be found??? The sad thing is that not only are student loan debts in the USA the highest in the world, they cannot be discharged while Canada enjoys cheaper tuitions and has consumer bankruptcy protection. Living in a capitalist country, where GREED IS GOOD, we are doubly screwed in this regard. The banks run this country and it sickens me.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

To DrMillisevert,
No I am not Canadian. Though the thought of emigrating to Montreal or Vancouver is rather appealing. Visited Montreal for the first time recently and LOVED it! I sometimes wonder why Canadian cities are consistently in the top 10 best cities to live in the world list whereas USA cities are nowhere to be found??? The sad thing is that not only are student loan debts in the USA the highest in the world, they cannot be discharged while Canada enjoys cheaper tuitions and has consumer bankruptcy protection. Living in a capitalist country, where GREED IS GOOD, we are doubly screwed in this regard. The banks run this country and it sickens me.

So your plan is to move to Canada and consolidate your loans with a Canadian bank and then file for bankruptcy?

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

The sad thing is that not only are student loan debts in the USA the highest in the world, they cannot be discharged while Canada enjoys cheaper tuitions and has consumer bankruptcy protection.

I agree.. government subsidized university education is one of the main reasons (as well as lower crime rates, better public transport, etc) that Canadian cities enjoy a much higher rating than American cities as worlds best cities to live in.

If America doesn't start supporting their students and subsidizing their education.. it seems that Canada may be benefitting from America's brain drain.

 

[medicinesux]

So your plan is to move to Canada and consolidate your loans with a Canadian bank and then file for bankruptcy?

if it were that simple than the population of Canada would double overnight

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

i like the Sweden approach. They pay every cent of higher education including medical schooling even if the student decides to go to another country. If he/she graduates and returns to Sweden to practice, there is no repayment. But if instead decided to practice in another country there is repayment.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

i like the Sweden approach. They pay every cent of higher education including medical schooling even if the student decides to go to another country. If he/she graduates and returns to Sweden to practice, there is no repayment. But if instead decided to practice in another country there is repayment.

Sounds reasonable to me

 

[psych]

I think that there is no doubt that the availability of large amounts of gov't backed student loans has driven up college tuition. If students didn't have access to high amounts of Stafford loans, you wouldn't see tuitions, particularly at private colleges, keep rising at rates greater than inflation. I also agree this is a complex issue in the sense that I couldn't support just doing away with gov't backed student loans; I don't think we want to go back to a pre World War II type situation where only families with money could send their kids to college. Both my grandfathers didn't have the opportunity to go to college because they came from poor families. One of them definitely regretted it his entire life, even though he ended up as a respected bank employee in our community. He was very very smart and would have been a great bank president, business major, accountant, or something similar. I think the question is how do we guarantee some sort of access to higher education without encouraging colleges to spend like drunken sailors?

I do think the public is partly at fault simply because students are still picking colleges based on the ones with the most fancy buildings, etc. rather than based on what goes on in the classrooms. I don't think loan forgiveness is the way to fix this - at least not large scale loan forgiveness, though it may be necessary for some. Part of this is the results of people's bad choices...some felt entitled to borrow money for multiple bachelor's degress, then professional degrees, etc. Sooner or later you gotta pay the piper. However, the case of med school and some other grad schools, you have not so many choices sometimes...if you're only accepted to one or two private schools that are very expensive, then you have to choose to pay or not be a doctor. I do think the 6.8% or so student loan interest seems excessive and it seems like the banks could make money on these while still charging a lower rate, like 4-5%. I'd be curious to hear what someone from the financial industry think?

I've been randomly following this thread because I will have an enormous debt burden when I graduate. Some people are saying they made their bed & now they have to lay in it. When I started my privatef undergrad, I was very naïve about student loans. I knew very little but I remember I wasn't afraid to take out a significant amount of debt because at the time u could consolidate @1, 2, 3, maybe 4%. My biggest issue about the money I owe isn't that I have to pay back what I borrowed, its that ill be paying back a few couple times what I initially borrowed bc of interest rates. Obama if you r listing, bring back the 1-4% consolidation loans, ASAP!

 

[psych]

Sorry about the typos but you get my point.

 

[medicinesux]

You can't make this **** up-

Sallie Mae's advice to someone who can't pay her student loans, "No problem, just back to school and take out some more!"

http://bit.ly/91Qptz