Stuck between periodontist and Oral Surgery and job security

[Dentalpeerson]

I'm stuck and in dire need of advice. SDN might not be the place to get it but will try anyways. I was set on OS because I enjoy surgery and I even took the CBSE. Planned on retaking but im still on the fence. The more I looked at OS the more I realized that I really didnt want to do the 4 years, it sounds terrible and that I would be putting myself through this mainly for the money, tbh. I also saw that if I ended up doing OS, I would most likely end up just doing implants and extractions but jaw reconstruction and stuff really doesn't interest me. It's cool but not something I would really be doing consistently. I was recently deeply exposed to perio and I saw that they did implants and extractions and other surgeries that interest me inside of the mouth. And it doesn't require a balls to the wall residency like OS. However, the point where I am stuck is job security as a periodontist. How is the job market for perio? I am worried that if I become a periodontist I will have a hard time making good money. If I become and oral surgeon I know for a fact that I will always have a job. The scope of OS is so large that there is always something I can do if the bread and butter get taken over. I know money isn't everything but I def want to make good money lol. Hoping that some periodontists, OS, or any residents have any input for me!! Would really appreciate it.

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[luisfigo]

Honestly I would feel that any non oral surgery office wouldn't care whether you were a perio or oral surgeon, they're not looking for someone to be on rotation in the hospital nor anyone who really does much work outside of thirds, ext's, and titanium. So basically just apply to any office with a job description that matches your skills whether it says oral surgeon or periodontist.

 

[AfterEffects]

While it is true that many periodontists place implants, do not forget that their scope also includes the treatment of periodontal disease (SRPs, deep cleanings, crown lengthening, pocket reductions, gum grafts, etc.). Look at perio and OS as being on a continuum of complexity in terms of implant procedures. At least at my program, perio takes many of the simple, less complex procedures (simple implants, small bone grafts). OS handles the larger reconstructions (zygomas, retreatments, autologous grafts, ASA 3+ patients). Of course in private practice there is significant overlap with the mid-level complexity and both are very much qualified, but perio will not be doing a hip, cranial bone harvest, etc. OS can do everything perio can do + much more. Perio does not do much exodontia compared to OS and referrals may be hard to come by for this as a periodontist. If you aren't interested in the "+ much more" portion of OS, then I agree that perio may be better suited for you.

None of this matters if you don't have a competitive CBSE score.

 

[bergus95]

Only other addition is sedation.

 

[deleted1082923]

Only other addition is sedation.

Sedation is actually a huge part of OMFS. It actually makes up a considerable chunk of the revenue that oral surgery practices bring in. You won’t be able to do IV sedations with propofol as a periodontist.

Periodontists may get a good number of referrals for implants but when it comes to extractions, OMFS are usually the ones who get those referrals.

Ultimately you’ll probably make more and have more job opportunities and stability as an OMFS, but you have to go through rigorous training and need to actually match (which involves getting a high CBSE, which is easier said than done). OMFS is becoming more competitive every year, for the reasons stated above.

 

[schmoob]

Just echoing what others are saying. Both are great careers and “future proof.” I send all my implants to Perio, especially anterior. More patients need extractions than implants so I keep my OS’s schedule very full with those. She makes great money with extractions plus sedation and grafting.
If I have a patient that needs a tough extraction but doesn’t want sedation, I’ll send them to Perio as long as it isn’t a full bony horizontally impacted 3rd sitting on the IAN. They will extract and likely graft the area.
I spread the love and the patients and specialists stay happy.

 

[yappy]

I think you can be successful in either specialty. What determines your success will be you, not the specialty. I say do the specialty that you enjoy most.

 

[Dentalpeerson]

Honestly I would feel that any non oral surgery office wouldn't care whether you were a perio or oral surgeon, they're not looking for someone to be on rotation in the hospital nor anyone who really does much work outside of thirds, ext's, and titanium. So basically just apply to any office with a job description that matches your skills whether it says oral surgeon or periodontist.

Thanks for the advice, great idea. Is this something that you've seen ppl do?

 

[Dentalpeerson]

Sedation is actually a huge part of OMFS. It actually makes up a considerable chunk of the revenue that oral surgery practices bring in. You won’t be able to do IV sedations with propofol as a periodontist.

Periodontists may get a good number of referrals for implants but when it comes to extractions, OMFS are usually the ones who get those referrals.

Ultimately you’ll probably make more and have more job opportunities and stability as an OMFS, but you have to go through rigorous training and need to actually match (which involves getting a high CBSE, which is easier said than done). OMFS is becoming more competitive every year, for the reasons stated above.

Many perio programs that I've looked at have IV sedation listed as part of the training. Is that a different type of sedation than what you're talking about?

 

[Sublimazing]

your original post really sounds like you’re geared for perio. i see no reason perio would have worse job security. i think you will be miserable if you do OS.

 

[Eli Manning]

Many perio programs that I've looked at have IV sedation listed as part of the training. Is that a different type of sedation than what you're talking about?

Perio residency does not train you in general anesthesia. So you are limited in the types of anesthetic medications you will use and are also limited in the level of anesthesia experience and confidence in performing in office sedation compared to an oral surgeon.

I agree with Sublimazing. If you are already saying you do not want to go through the OS residency then you should do perio. The residency is A LOT of work and stress that is not worth your time if you know you will be miserable.

 

[Roto Picante]

There is one full time periodontist in all of Alaska. How is that for job security?

 

[ThirdMolarz]

Just echoing what others are saying. Both are great careers and “future proof.” I send all my implants to Perio, especially anterior. More patients need extractions than implants so I keep my OS’s schedule very full with those. She makes great money with extractions plus sedation and grafting.
If I have a patient that needs a tough extraction but doesn’t want sedation, I’ll send them to Perio as long as it isn’t a full bony horizontally impacted 3rd sitting on the IAN. They will extract and likely graft the area.
I spread the love and the patients and specialists stay happy.

Wondering why not keep EXT’s and implants in house?

 

[schmoob]

Wondering why not keep EXT’s and implants in house?

I do. They are traveling specialists that come to my office.

 

[DomDom3790]

I'm stuck and in dire need of advice. SDN might not be the place to get it but will try anyways. I was set on OS because I enjoy surgery and I even took the CBSE. Planned on retaking but im still on the fence. The more I looked at OS the more I realized that I really didnt want to do the 4 years, it sounds terrible and that I would be putting myself through this mainly for the money, tbh. I also saw that if I ended up doing OS, I would most likely end up just doing implants and extractions but jaw reconstruction and stuff really doesn't interest me. It's cool but not something I would really be doing consistently. I was recently deeply exposed to perio and I saw that they did implants and extractions and other surgeries that interest me inside of the mouth. And it doesn't require a balls to the wall residency like OS. However, the point where I am stuck is job security as a periodontist. How is the job market for perio? I am worried that if I become a periodontist I will have a hard time making good money. If I become and oral surgeon I know for a fact that I will always have a job. The scope of OS is so large that there is always something I can do if the bread and butter get taken over. I know money isn't everything but I def want to make good money lol. Hoping that some periodontists, OS, or any residents have any input for me!! Would really appreciate it.

I originally was in perio, 3 months at a solid school. Hated my life. Dropped out, now in omfs residency. That’s my history.

So I feel I can give you some perspective of both, but you may not like my answer. I honestly think you are looking at this the wrong way, but that’s just an opinion( and opinions are like dinguses, everyone has one). While on average omfs makes more money, they both will give you a great life financially (at least for me). But in my opinion, you’re comparing apples to oranges (especially if considering a six year route). While there is overlap, you could make the same argument for a general dentist, as they also are fully able to place implants and extract teeth. If you’re choosing specialty based on job security, you’re risking happiness in my opinion. I wanted something more broad, with more medicine, more OR time, more comprehensive, that’s why perio wasn’t working for me. It’s not an easy specialty by any means, but it didn’t focus on what I thought was more interesting. Omfs is hard, tiring and time consuming. I wouldn’t tell anyone looking for just money or job security to go into it, because the most passionate should strive towards It as it requires motivated individuals to make it through, enjoy and actually add to the field itself.

So I think you need to really ask yourself what do you like, and not what’s going in your pocket. I’ve known plenty of periodontist who are killing it, so why worry about the money part? The question is are you ok learning massive amounts of information that may be outside your speciality, taking call and losing a lot of sleep, standing in the OR from 1-12 hours, and spending 4-6 years of your life in school. If you enjoy it, this shouldn’t cause any concern and your decision should be relatively simple. I apologize for grammar and spelling errors, did this on my phone

 

[NativeOMFS]

There is one full time periodontist in all of Alaska. How is that for job security?

Shout out to Tommy in Anchorage!! Miss you buddy

 

[PerioDont]

I originally was in perio, 3 months at a solid school. Hated my life. Dropped out, now in omfs residency. That’s my history.

So I feel I can give you some perspective of both, but you may not like my answer. I honestly think you are looking at this the wrong way, but that’s just an opinion( and opinions are like dinguses, everyone has one). While on average omfs makes more money, they both will give you a great life financially (at least for me). But in my opinion, you’re comparing apples to oranges (especially if considering a six year route). While there is overlap, you could make the same argument for a general dentist, as they also are fully able to place implants and extract teeth. If you’re choosing specialty based on job security, you’re risking happiness in my opinion. I wanted something more broad, with more medicine, more OR time, more comprehensive, that’s why perio wasn’t working for me. It’s not an easy specialty by any means, but it didn’t focus on what I thought was more interesting. Omfs is hard, tiring and time consuming. I wouldn’t tell anyone looking for just money or job security to go into it, because the most passionate should strive towards It as it requires motivated individuals to make it through, enjoy and actually add to the field itself.

So I think you need to really ask yourself what do you like, and not what’s going in your pocket. I’ve known plenty of periodontist who are killing it, so why worry about the money part? The question is are you ok learning massive amounts of information that may be outside your speciality, taking call and losing a lot of sleep, standing in the OR from 1-12 hours, and spending 4-6 years of your life in school. If you enjoy it, this shouldn’t cause any concern and your decision should be relatively simple. I apologize for grammar and spelling errors, did this on my phone

just wondering how did the OMFS residency react to you having dropped out?

did you have to do multiple intern years? I would think dropping out of one residency is a huge red flag for another.

 

[luisfigo]

I originally was in perio, 3 months at a solid school. Hated my life. Dropped out, now in omfs residency. That’s my history.

So I feel I can give you some perspective of both, but you may not like my answer. I honestly think you are looking at this the wrong way, but that’s just an opinion( and opinions are like dinguses, everyone has one). While on average omfs makes more money, they both will give you a great life financially (at least for me). But in my opinion, you’re comparing apples to oranges (especially if considering a six year route). While there is overlap, you could make the same argument for a general dentist, as they also are fully able to place implants and extract teeth. If you’re choosing specialty based on job security, you’re risking happiness in my opinion. I wanted something more broad, with more medicine, more OR time, more comprehensive, that’s why perio wasn’t working for me. It’s not an easy specialty by any means, but it didn’t focus on what I thought was more interesting. Omfs is hard, tiring and time consuming. I wouldn’t tell anyone looking for just money or job security to go into it, because the most passionate should strive towards It as it requires motivated individuals to make it through, enjoy and actually add to the field itself.

So I think you need to really ask yourself what do you like, and not what’s going in your pocket. I’ve known plenty of periodontist who are killing it, so why worry about the money part? The question is are you ok learning massive amounts of information that may be outside your speciality, taking call and losing a lot of sleep, standing in the OR from 1-12 hours, and spending 4-6 years of your life in school. If you enjoy it, this shouldn’t cause any concern and your decision should be relatively simple. I apologize for grammar and spelling errors, did this on my phone

This guy probably wowed them with his muscles and ended up some place like San Antonio where they're desperate for anybody

 

[Roto Picante]

Shout out to Tommy in Anchorage!! Miss you buddy

He works for the native hospital and isn't available for referrals from the rest of us.

 

[D1Bound]

This guy probably wowed them with his muscles and ended up some place like San Antonio where they're desperate for anybody

Lol why the joke about San Antonio? Does no one want to work there?

 

[AfterEffects]

Lol why the joke about San Antonio? Does no one want to work there?

The sarcasm seems to have been missed. Likely two friends giving each other slack. Many of us on SDN know each other IRL as we met during the interview season back when COVID/virtual interviews wasn't a thing. San Antonio is a great program.

 

[ThirdMolarz]

The sarcasm seems to have been missed. Likely two friends giving each other slack. Many of us on SDN know each other IRL as we met during the interview season back when COVID/virtual interviews wasn't a thing. San Antonio is a great program.

I miss that. Glad to have met people on externships this year

 

[DomDom3790]

just wondering how did the OMFS residency react to you having dropped out?

did you have to do multiple intern years? I would think dropping out of one residency is a huge red flag for another.

I honestly thought it would be a problem too. Fortunately I was top in my class and did well on my CBSE. I still ended up doing an intern year because I needed to see if this was really the move I wanted to do. Plus I had no externships and wanted some way to prove to another program I wanted this. So I did one year at Texas a&m (which is where figo probably knew me from) before going to San Antonio for my residency

 

[SilkyJ]

just wondering how did the OMFS residency react to you having dropped out?

did you have to do multiple intern years? I would think dropping out of one residency is a huge red flag for another.

I would think that one of the few exceptions to this would be dropping out of Perio to apply to OMFS. You have to remember that a large portion of the OMFS world treats Perio with a lot of derision.

I actually don’t think it would go over poorly at most OMFS programs to explain your decision to drop out by simply saying “I couldn’t stand being in the Perio world”.

 

[luisfigo]

I honestly thought it would be a problem too. Fortunately I was top in my class and did well on my CBSE. I still ended up doing an intern year because I needed to see if this was really the move I wanted to do. Plus I had no externships and wanted some way to prove to another program I wanted this. So I did one year at Texas a&m (which is where figo probably knew me from) before going to San Antonio for my residency

Well we enjoyed him so much we def wanted him to stay in Texas

 

[periopocket]

Im a practicing periodontist. I completed my first year in practice this past year and made as much as the average OMFS salary according to the ADA.

I am very heavy in oral surgery. In fact, I work for an OMFS a few days a month, who owns multiple practices and no longer does clinical work, and he finally started directing much of the exodontia my way after gaining his trust.

I do not do IV sedation or chase after horizontally impacted wisdom teeth sitting on the nerve.

3 vs. 4 years is a drop in the bucket. Perio residency sucked. Reading literature all day is such a drag.

I prob would of preferred spending more time clinical and less time reading about non-sense.

I enjoy OS way more than perio to be honest. Perio is extremely tedious, OS is straight forward for the most part (75%); extract the tooth, place the implant.

With all that said, if I could do it over again, I would of definitely went for the 4 year omfs (NOT THE 6).

Ask yourself the question: would you rather be doing soft tissue grafts or do full mouth exodontia and impacted wizzies?

 

[periopocket]

Im a practicing periodontist. I just completed my first year in practice and made as much as the average OMFS salary according to the ADA.

I am very heavy in oral surgery. In fact, I work for an OMFS a few days a month, who owns multiple practices and no longer does clinical work, and he finally started directing much of the exodontia my way after gaining his trust.

I do not do IV sedation or chase after horizontally impacted wisdom teeth sitting on the nerve. These go to OMFS.

3 vs. 4 years is a drop in the bucket. Perio residency sucked. Reading literature all day is such a drag.

I prob would of preferred spending more time clinical and less time reading about non-sense.

I enjoy OS way more than perio to be honest. Perio is extremely tedious, OS is straight forward for the most part (75%); extract the tooth, place the implant.

With all that said, if I could do it over again, I would of definitely went for the 4 year omfs (NOT THE 6).

Ask yourself the question: would you rather be doing soft tissue grafts or do full mouth exodontia and impacted wizzies?

 

[DomDom3790]

Im a practicing periodontist. I just completed my first year in practice and made as much as the average OMFS salary according to the ADA.

I am very heavy in oral surgery. In fact, I work for an OMFS a few days a month, who owns multiple practices and no longer does clinical work, and he finally started directing much of the exodontia my way after gaining his trust.

I do not do IV sedation or chase after horizontally impacted wisdom teeth sitting on the nerve. These go to OMFS.

3 vs. 4 years is a drop in the bucket. Perio residency sucked. Reading literature all day is such a drag.

I prob would of preferred spending more time clinical and less time reading about non-sense.

I enjoy OS way more than perio to be honest. Perio is extremely tedious, OS is straight forward for the most part (75%); extract the tooth, place the implant.

With all that said, if I could do it over again, I would of definitely went for the 4 year omfs (NOT THE 6).

Ask yourself the question: would you rather be doing soft tissue grafts or do full mouth exodontia and impacted wizzies?

No offense man, but this is partially false. I’m not going to say that most OMFS people go out and just extract teeth and place implants, because I don’t know the actually number and that’s where the money is… but that’s just a small bit of the scope of what is actually done in that speciality. I feel like it’s a bit of a waste to just go into this specialty and only do that… I mean what you are calling oral surgery literally any one in our field can do…

Financially speaking,

Im a practicing periodontist. I just completed my first year in practice and made as much as the average OMFS salary according to the ADA.

I am very heavy in oral surgery. In fact, I work for an OMFS a few days a month, who owns multiple practices and no longer does clinical work, and he finally started directing much of the exodontia my way after gaining his trust.

I do not do IV sedation or chase after horizontally impacted wisdom teeth sitting on the nerve. These go to OMFS.

3 vs. 4 years is a drop in the bucket. Perio residency sucked. Reading literature all day is such a drag.

I prob would of preferred spending more time clinical and less time reading about non-sense.

I enjoy OS way more than perio to be honest. Perio is extremely tedious, OS is straight forward for the most part (75%); extract the tooth, place the implant.

With all that said, if I could do it over again, I would of definitely went for the 4 year omfs (NOT THE 6).

Ask yourself the question: would you rather be doing soft tissue grafts or do full mouth exodontia and impacted wizzies?

Im gonna reply to this because I feel you are inaccurate in your description of our speciality.

1) With regards to money, on average OMFS make more per quarter on gross billing (about 400,000 K according to ADA, over head expenses were not taking into account here). You may not represent the average, but its unfair to compare outliers, as there are general dentist who probably make more than either of those specialities in some cases.
2) What you are calling oral surgery and what an oral surgeon is trained to do and does are very different. I am not too naive and realize that most OMFS probably mainly do exodontia and implants as its the most efficient mode of making money, but that is certainly undermining what oral surgery is as a speciality and what they are trained to be able to do. Not to mention, exodontia and implant placement are no longer a specialty service, except in the most challenging situations, and thus is unfair to label these procedures as such.
3) The only difference between a 6 yr and 4 yr omfs is medical school, that is all. So whether you wanted to do 4 or 6, you would still have been trained beyond "wizzies and full mouth exodontia". So I would not steer someone towards the 4 yr path because its shorter on paper, as the surgical training is essentially the same. Now I can't speak for all residences because some programs are more teeth and titanium related, but again, why go through all this training for that?
4) Side point: IV sedation (and the use of anesthetics like propofol, ketamine, etomidate, etc...) is a huge asset to the field of OMFS and our patients. But more importantly than being able to use these IV medications, its being trained how to manage our patients airway and other related anesthesia factors to ensure patient comfort and safety.

My short time in perio relative to OMFS tells a much greater story than you are offering. I dont think youre providing the whole picture and sort dumbing down our profession. From a financial standpoint I would never tell someone to go into this field. It takes time, a lot of it, and dentistry as a whole has the potential to make good money without putting in all those extra years of school (and taking out more loans). You should have some amount of curiosity outside of just extracting teeth and placing implants if considering OMFS. Or, at least, know your options and do your due diligence in understanding what youre getting yourself into.

 

[periopocket]

No offense man, but this is partially false. I’m not going to say that most OMFS people go out and just extract teeth and place implants, because I don’t know the actually number and that’s where the money is… but that’s just a small bit of the scope of what is actually done in that speciality. I feel like it’s a bit of a waste to just go into this specialty and only do that… I mean what you are calling oral surgery literally any one in our field can do…

Financially speaking,

Im gonna reply to this because I feel you are inaccurate in your description of our speciality.

1) With regards to money, on average OMFS make more per quarter on gross billing (about 400,000 K according to ADA, over head expenses were not taking into account here). You may not represent the average, but its unfair to compare outliers, as there are general dentist who probably make more than either of those specialities in some cases.
2) What you are calling oral surgery and what an oral surgeon is trained to do and does are very different. I am not too naive and realize that most OMFS probably mainly do exodontia and implants as its the most efficient mode of making money, but that is certainly undermining what oral surgery is as a speciality and what they are trained to be able to do. Not to mention, exodontia and implant placement are no longer a specialty service, except in the most challenging situations, and thus is unfair to label these procedures as such.
3) The only difference between a 6 yr and 4 yr omfs is medical school, that is all. So whether you wanted to do 4 or 6, you would still have been trained beyond "wizzies and full mouth exodontia". So I would not steer someone towards the 4 yr path because its shorter on paper, as the surgical training is essentially the same. Now I can't speak for all residences because some programs are more teeth and titanium related, but again, why go through all this training for that?
4) Side point: IV sedation (and the use of anesthetics like propofol, ketamine, etomidate, etc...) is a huge asset to the field of OMFS and our patients. But more importantly than being able to use these IV medications, its being trained how to manage our patients airway and other related anesthesia factors to ensure patient comfort and safety.

My short time in perio relative to OMFS tells a much greater story than you are offering. I dont think youre providing the whole picture and sort dumbing down our profession. From a financial standpoint I would never tell someone to go into this field. It takes time, a lot of it, and dentistry as a whole has the potential to make good money without putting in all those extra years of school (and taking out more loans). You should have some amount of curiosity outside of just extracting teeth and placing implants if considering OMFS. Or, at least, know your options and do your due diligence in understanding what youre getting yourself into.

Hey brother, no intention of dumbing down your field. Once you are out in private practice, you will get a better idea of what your day in and day out routine is. You will find out what the 75% is and then you can come back and share with us.

People reading this post, you can do well in any field of dentistry. Minimize your debt, minimize the number of years you are sucked into training i.e. 4 vs. 6, take all your extra money and stuff it into the S&P500 And good real estate investments.

Everything else is gravy. All the egos quickly rush away once reality hits.

 

[DomDom3790]

Hey brother, no intention of dumbing down your field. Once you are out in private practice, you will get a better idea of what your day in and day out routine is. You will find out what the 75% is and then you can come back and share with us.

People reading this post, you can do well in any field of dentistry. Minimize your debt, minimize the number of years you are sucked into training i.e. 4 vs. 6, take all your extra money and stuff it into the S&P500 And good real estate investments.

Everything else is gravy. All the egos quickly rush away once reality hits.

I see the problem here... for me money isn't the most important factor guiding my career life. I felt that once in dental school, comfort was there knowing finances would never be horrible... but of course this perception is relative and personal. The point im trying to drive across is perhaps too idealistic... to assume that people in our field would be willing to at least take some of their skill set to the public (trauma, orthognathic surgery, TMJ related procedures, craniofacial, benign path, malignant path, etc....)... That extractions and implants are but a part of repertoire rather than everything.

But maybe thats where im to immature to understand. I just knew I left perio because I wanted something more to do than what your saying you do in private practice... and that maybe there are other people looking for that as well. I just figured maybe others should know the scope is broader, and with that they may or may not be interested. One of the smartest guys I knew in dental school was interested in OMFS, but only for the procedures you are talking about above. He decided to not go for it, because he felt he could do these things without the extra time spent in school, and that it was a waste to himself and to the speciality to go in for those reasons alone. From what I understand he is killing it financially and very happy. Thats the only point im trying to make here - I dont recommend you do this speciality if thats all your interested in, its a lot just for that...

And sorry, didn't mean to give off an inflated ego, I just felt your post wasn't complete and unfair to others reading it.

 

[periopocket]

I see the problem here... for me money isn't the most important factor guiding my career life. I felt that once in dental school, comfort was there knowing finances would never be horrible... but of course this perception is relative and personal. The point im trying to drive across is perhaps too idealistic... to assume that people in our field would be willing to at least take some of their skill set to the public (trauma, orthognathic surgery, TMJ related procedures, craniofacial, benign path, malignant path, etc....)... That extractions and implants are but a part of repertoire rather than everything.

But maybe thats where im to immature to understand. I just knew I left perio because I wanted something more to do than what your saying you do in private practice... and that maybe there are other people looking for that as well. I just figured maybe others should know the scope is broader, and with that they may or may not be interested. One of the smartest guys I knew in dental school was interested in OMFS, but only for the procedures you are talking about above. He decided to not go for it, because he felt he could do these things without the extra time spent in school, and that it was a waste to himself and to the speciality to go in for those reasons alone. From what I understand he is killing it financially and very happy. Thats the only point im trying to make here - I dont recommend you do this speciality if thats all your interested in, its a lot just for that...

And sorry, didn't mean to give off an inflated ego, I just felt your post wasn't complete and unfair to others reading it.

Hey brother I only have respect for you. If only more OMFS were like you. Just keep on chugging along. Many of us could not dedicate the number of years you have.

I love helping people via dentistry, but for me, it's really about making a good living and retiring at hopefully a reasonable age.

All the best to you, nothing but respect!

 

[yappy]

My scope and training as a gp is much broader than I practice, but the economics of my practice dictate I practice the way i do. I feel like it is the same with the surgeons i work with. Why is it that oms in training present their specially differently than it really is in practice? Yes, some will be in academics and do hospital based stuff, the same way gpr GPs practicing in a hospital is niche too. However, that is not typical of the field. There are even boutique practices that find an economic niche. But if you look around at the landscape after training it looks a lot like dental alveolar surgery. Why pretend this isn’t the case?

 

[Sublimazing]

Hey brother, no intention of dumbing down your field. Once you are out in private practice, you will get a better idea of what your day in and day out routine is. You will find out what the 75% is and then you can come back and share with us.

People reading this post, you can do well in any field of dentistry. Minimize your debt, minimize the number of years you are sucked into training i.e. 4 vs. 6, take all your extra money and stuff it into the S&P500 And good real estate investments.

Everything else is gravy. All the egos quickly rush away once reality hits.

I’m in private practice. Every tuesday is the OR for an orthognathic case or total joint replacement. But even in the office I’m not limited to simple exodontia by any means. I sedate patients for arthrocentesis, soft and hard tissue biopsies, expose and brackets, uprighting 2nd molars, TAD placement, MRONJ debridements, closing OAFs, torectomies, oral medicinr, treating facial lesions, and trauma call at a hospital.

The 2 other oral surgeons in my office do the same. Every oral surgeon in my town does the same.

I think the people who don’t do oral surgery think it’s mostly exodontia, but that’s pretty false.

The average oral surgery income was at $540,000 in 2019.

Taking out partial bony teeth under local and saying you do oral surgery is like me taking a probing depth and telling everyone i do periodontics.

 

[periopocket]

I’m in private practice. Every tuesday is the OR for an orthognathic case or total joint replacement. But even in the office I’m not limited to simple exodontia by any means. I sedate patients for arthrocentesis, soft and hard tissue biopsies, expose and brackets, uprighting 2nd molars, TAD placement, MRONJ debridements, closing OAFs, torectomies, oral medicinr, treating facial lesions, and trauma call at a hospital.

The 2 other oral surgeons in my office do the same. Every oral surgeon in my town does the same.

I think the people who don’t do oral surgery think it’s mostly exodontia, but that’s pretty false.

The average oral surgery income was at $540,000 in 2019.

Taking out partial bony teeth under local and saying you do oral surgery is like me taking a probing depth and telling everyone i do periodontics.

All good points you make. Well played Sir! Congrats on all your success!

 

[Sublimazing]

All good points you make. Well played Sir! Congrats on all your success!

Everyday of my life is worse than the day before it. I want that to be very clear.

 

[periopocket]

I see the problem here... for me money isn't the most important factor guiding my career life. I felt that once in dental school, comfort was there knowing finances would never be horrible... but of course this perception is relative and personal. The point im trying to drive across is perhaps too idealistic... to assume that people in our field would be willing to at least take some of their skill set to the public (trauma, orthognathic surgery, TMJ related procedures, craniofacial, benign path, malignant path, etc....)... That extractions and implants are but a part of repertoire rather than everything.

But maybe thats where im to immature to understand. I just knew I left perio because I wanted something more to do than what your saying you do in private practice... and that maybe there are other people looking for that as well. I just figured maybe others should know the scope is broader, and with that they may or may not be interested. One of the smartest guys I knew in dental school was interested in OMFS, but only for the procedures you are talking about above. He decided to not go for it, because he felt he could do these things without the extra time spent in school, and that it was a waste to himself and to the speciality to go in for those reasons alone. From what I understand he is killing it financially and very happy. Thats the only point im trying to make here - I dont recommend you do this speciality if thats all your interested in, its a lot just for that...

And sorry, didn't mean to give off an inflated ego, I just felt your post wasn't complete and unfair to others reading it.

Honestly, after re-reading your post, I don’t find you egotistical at all.

I think your going to be an excellent OMFS, whose going to help a lot of people in need. You went into the field for all the right reasons.

As I admitted earlier, occasionally, I too wish that I had went into a 4 year oms program.

My success, just like anyone’s, came with damn hard work. I worked in over 10 offices and drove an hour+ in all different directions to make that salary year one, I’m on track for more this year.

I just bought my own private practice, I’m working there two days a week and continuing to work at 7+ offices on the side.

An OMS could certainly outdo me without all the additional traveling.

I want to re-iterate, despite having many negative experiences when speaking with some OMS, also with my OMS attending from residency who treated me like **** and never really wanted to take me to the OR, I have nothing but respect.

OMS is a great field.

 

[Contach]

Honestly I would feel that any non oral surgery office wouldn't care whether you were a perio or oral surgeon, they're not looking for someone to be on rotation in the hospital nor anyone who really does much work outside of thirds, ext's, and titanium. So basically just apply to any office with a job description that matches your skills whether it says oral surgeon or periodontist.

Sedation is a huge selling point that most periodontists aren't trained to do.

 

[Eli Manning]

Sedation is a huge selling point that most periodontists aren't trained to do.

This is true. A periodontist has about as much sedation training as a general dentist that does a 60hr weekend course on IV sedation.

 

[Flashes23]

So I can give you my story and what led me to perio.

Long story short, I have been working in a community center/county hospital as a general dentist for years. We do everything from crown/bridge, endo, ext, all the way to ER consults, extractions, I&D in the OR on admitted patients. If your goal is to practice medicine and be a surgeon, then obviously OMS is the way to go. You will have the ability to truly change lives in a very big way, not to mention save lives.

If you are doing this, even partly, for ego then forget it. OS maybe the "top" of the dental world, but they are still at the bottom in the eyes of many other physicians and surgeons. Anesthesiologists look at OMS doing sedation the same way that Eli Manning (poster above) does GPs sedating patients. Surgeons will always see you as a dentist, no matter how much extra training you attain. I often hear the ENT and Plastics attendings and residents refer to the OMS as "tooth fairies". There are more cordial scenarios I'm sure, but at the end of the day you chose to be a dentist and not a "doctor" and a OMS residency will not change that.

The decision became clear to me the more time I spent learning about implants, GBR, peri-implantitis, etc. Almost all the implant literature comes from Perio. Most of the top clinicians in the realm of implants/GBR are periodontists, there are some notable exceptions Urban, Pikos, Buser, etc. but by in large all Perio. I am obsessive and love the cleanliness of their surgeries, sutures, soft tissue management. Although the two specialties have alot of overlap in private practice the mentality entering each program seems to be very different.

Do you want to make a huge difference? changes lives with surgery? be in the OR? have a huge breadth of procedures? Make a ton of money doing sedation and wizzies?

Do you want to be an extremely precise and obsessive periodontist who has many intricate procedures that some may deem tedious? Are you interested in a masters, research thesis, deep understanding of things like oral systemic health, microbiology, etc? Do you want to see patients on a long term basis or one and done?

 

[D1Bound]

So I can give you my story and what led me to perio.

Long story short, I have been working in a community center/county hospital as a general dentist for years. We do everything from crown/bridge, endo, ext, all the way to ER consults, extractions, I&D in the OR on admitted patients. If your goal is to practice medicine and be a surgeon, then obviously OMS is the way to go. You will have the ability to truly change lives in a very big way, not to mention save lives.

If you are doing this, even partly, for ego then forget it. OS maybe the "top" of the dental world, but they are still at the bottom in the eyes of many other physicians and surgeons. Anesthesiologists look at OMS doing sedation the same way that Eli Manning (poster above) does GPs sedating patients. Surgeons will always see you as a dentist, no matter how much extra training you attain. I often hear the ENT and Plastics attendings and residents refer to the OMS as "tooth fairies". There are more cordial scenarios I'm sure, but at the end of the day you chose to be a dentist and not a "doctor" and a OMS residency will not change that.

The decision became clear to me the more time I spent learning about implants, GBR, peri-implantitis, etc. Almost all the implant literature comes from Perio. Most of the top clinicians in the realm of implants/GBR are periodontists, there are some notable exceptions Urban, Pikos, Buser, etc. but by in large all Perio. I am obsessive and love the cleanliness of their surgeries, sutures, soft tissue management. Although the two specialties have alot of overlap in private practice the mentality entering each program seems to be very different.

Do you want to make a huge difference? changes lives with surgery? be in the OR? have a huge breadth of procedures? Make a ton of money doing sedation and wizzies?

Do you want to be an extremely precise and obsessive periodontist who has many intricate procedures that some may deem tedious? Are you interested in a masters, research thesis, deep understanding of things like oral systemic health, microbiology, etc? Do you want to see patients on a long term basis or one and done?

If OMFS was a route one had to go to medical school for first, it would easily be one of the most competitive specialties amongst medical students. OMS earn their stripes. They are doctors in every sense of the word. Heck, I even had an ENT tell me he would have gone to dental school if he were to do it again. I just don't buy OMS seen as "lowly" in the medical world. That's hogwash. I don't think OMS would care very much though as they continue on making bank taking teeth.

 

[Flashes23]

If OMFS was a route one had to go to medical school for first, it would easily be one of the most competitive specialties amongst medical students. OMS earn their stripes. They are doctors in every sense of the word. Heck, I even had an ENT tell me he would have gone to dental school if he were to do it again. I just don't buy OMS seen as "lowly" in the medical world. That's hogwash. I don't think OMS would care very much though as they continue on making bank taking teeth.

IF it was a medical specialty yes it would be one of the most competitive. You are right, unfortunately it is not. When you get to the real world you will learn that everything is a turf war in medicine. Physicians will not look at "all your hard work" and commemorate you. When it comes to treating a pan fracture on trauma call on Christmas Eve no one cares about OMS operating, when it comes to free flaps, head/neck cancer, or god forbid esthetics then other surgeons will ostracize you. There are probably some exceptions but this has been my experience in my hospital, not just idyllic fantasies of a yet to be D1.

This is exactly the type of person I am warning against going into OMS, if it's purely an ego play you will likely be disappointed.

 

[702]

IF it was a medical specialty yes it would be one of the most competitive. You are right, unfortunately it is not. When you get to the real world you will learn that everything is a turf war in medicine. Physicians will not look at "all your hard work" and commemorate you. When it comes to treating a pan fracture on trauma call on Christmas Eve no one cares about OMS operating, when it comes to free flaps, head/neck cancer, or god forbid esthetics then other surgeons will ostracize you. There are probably some exceptions but this has been my experience in my hospital, not just idyllic fantasies of a yet to be D1.

This is exactly the type of person I am warning against going into OMS, if it's purely an ego play you will likely be disappointed.

This is hospital dependent. In some programs omfs outshines ent and plastics and beats them in the “turf wars.” I only learned this as I became familiar with different hospitals across the country.

 

[702]

This is hospital dependent. In some programs omfs outshines ent and plastics and beats them in the “turf wars.” I only learned this as I became familiar with different hospitals across the country.

even ophtho*

 

[Flashes23]

This is hospital dependent. In some programs omfs outshines ent and plastics and beats them in the “turf wars.” I only learned this as I became familiar with different hospitals across the country.

I believe it!

 

[D1Bound]

IF it was a medical specialty yes it would be one of the most competitive. You are right, unfortunately it is not. When you get to the real world you will learn that everything is a turf war in medicine. Physicians will not look at "all your hard work" and commemorate you. When it comes to treating a pan fracture on trauma call on Christmas Eve no one cares about OMS operating, when it comes to free flaps, head/neck cancer, or god forbid esthetics then other surgeons will ostracize you. There are probably some exceptions but this has been my experience in my hospital, not just idyllic fantasies of a yet to be D1.

This is exactly the type of person I am warning against going into OMS, if it's purely an ego play you will likely be disappointed.

OMFS has been around a long time. Those guys and gals don't have anything to prove to anyone. If other surgeons really consider OMFS as tooth fairies when they see them rotating call, then they're just plain ignorant and that shows on them. Perhaps I should change my name I'm well beyond D1.

 

[somefuturedoc]

So I should or should not choose my specialty based on whether doctors will think I’m cool…?

 

[D1Bound]

So I should or should not choose my specialty based on whether doctors will think I’m cool…?

You will be a doctor

 

[bergus95]

So I can give you my story and what led me to perio.

Long story short, I have been working in a community center/county hospital as a general dentist for years. We do everything from crown/bridge, endo, ext, all the way to ER consults, extractions, I&D in the OR on admitted patients. If your goal is to practice medicine and be a surgeon, then obviously OMS is the way to go. You will have the ability to truly change lives in a very big way, not to mention save lives.

If you are doing this, even partly, for ego then forget it. OS maybe the "top" of the dental world, but they are still at the bottom in the eyes of many other physicians and surgeons. Anesthesiologists look at OMS doing sedation the same way that Eli Manning (poster above) does GPs sedating patients. Surgeons will always see you as a dentist, no matter how much extra training you attain. I often hear the ENT and Plastics attendings and residents refer to the OMS as "tooth fairies". There are more cordial scenarios I'm sure, but at the end of the day you chose to be a dentist and not a "doctor" and a OMS residency will not change that.

The decision became clear to me the more time I spent learning about implants, GBR, peri-implantitis, etc. Almost all the implant literature comes from Perio. Most of the top clinicians in the realm of implants/GBR are periodontists, there are some notable exceptions Urban, Pikos, Buser, etc. but by in large all Perio. I am obsessive and love the cleanliness of their surgeries, sutures, soft tissue management. Although the two specialties have alot of overlap in private practice the mentality entering each program seems to be very different.

Do you want to make a huge difference? changes lives with surgery? be in the OR? have a huge breadth of procedures? Make a ton of money doing sedation and wizzies?

Do you want to be an extremely precise and obsessive periodontist who has many intricate procedures that some may deem tedious? Are you interested in a masters, research thesis, deep understanding of things like oral systemic health, microbiology, etc? Do you want to see patients on a long term basis or one and done?

Don’t put too much weight in what people think about you. Might be easier said than done.

Anyone can say/feel however they want about OMFS. There is no shred of a doubt that we have the best gig in Medicine/Dentistry today in every tangible sense.

And in some ways they are right. We have a foot in every door, whether it be Medicine, Dentistry, Surgery, Anesthesia. That’s the beauty of Oral Surgery.

 

[Sublimazing]

IF it was a medical specialty yes it would be one of the most competitive. You are right, unfortunately it is not. When you get to the real world you will learn that everything is a turf war in medicine. Physicians will not look at "all your hard work" and commemorate you. When it comes to treating a pan fracture on trauma call on Christmas Eve no one cares about OMS operating, when it comes to free flaps, head/neck cancer, or god forbid esthetics then other surgeons will ostracize you. There are probably some exceptions but this has been my experience in my hospital, not just idyllic fantasies of a yet to be D1.

This is exactly the type of person I am warning against going into OMS, if it's purely an ego play you will likely be disappointed.

Thank you. We all were eager to hear the opinion of a general dentist who worked at a community hospital.

For all the OMFS hopefuls, trust me OMFS is just as respected as any specialty if not more. We have a better relationship with anesthesia than other specialty. And this guy’s extremely limited experience with other specialties is obvious in his post. Plastics ****s on ENT, ENT ****s on Plastics, GI ****s on FM, EM ****s on FM, Uro ****s on OB, the entire hospital has members who **** on one another.

When you’re an OMFS intern handling **** or rotating off service on gen surg or anesthesia you will earn respect just like every other specialty. And when they call you for TMJ surgeries, Odontogenic Infections, Facial Trauma, Orthognathics, and Oral Path you better believe they respect you.

This guy’s opinion really just reflects his own abilities and limited experience in the hospital. Extern at any OMFS program and you will see how wrong he is.

 

[2TH MVR]

Thank you. We all were eager to hear the opinion of a general dentist who worked at a community hospital.

I just about choked on my coffee reading this. Too funny and well played.