Stole from University bookstore and received an IA, what are my chances of admission?

[Ash055]

During my Sophomore year 2019, in lapse of judgment based on a dare, l regrettably stole a jacket from my university bookstore and was caught. I didn't even like the jacket. It was less than $100, so I received a non-academic theft IA as I was protected by the university (as opposed to legal consequences). This is also the first time I had ever done something like this (which is evident in me getting caught, ironically). My records are sealed by my universities student discipline committee and can't be released without my permission.

When I got caught:

- I went back and paid for the stolen merchandise
- Had to buy and take a judgement/ self-reflection course
- Meet with the dean of my college (which I am close with and expecting a letter of rec from)
- quarter of non-academic probation

Overall, I learned my lesson financially, socially, and morally. I have grown a lot from this experience and I don't think this event is a representation of me as an individual or a potential physician.

My questions are:

1. Is this lethal to my chances? If so, would it be better to not report it and risk an even worse dishonesty tag? (Although I strongly prefer to be honest given the circumstances)

2. How should I structure my IA report? How should I communicate this to medschools?

3. If my stats are borderline for some schools, do these circumstances screen me out automatically?

Any additional advice is welcome.

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[Goro]

I can't sugar coat this, your medical career is either over, or in a deep state of stasis.

Here is the mindset you'll be facing, as Adcoms will ask:

1) Is this the sort of person we want in our Class?
2) Why take this kid when we have so many other candidates who didn't cheat?

My clinical colleagues especially take professionalism VERY seriously. They know that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students (there's published data on this).

Not report it? Do you really want to risk having and acceptance rescinded, or being kicked out of med school if you matriculate? And you wish to enter a profession that values professionalism and honesty? Really?

An IA like this might very well keep you out of med schools even with high stats.

For starters, don't screw up again. Finish college with an exemplary record.

Work for few years, engage in many acts of service to others less fortunate than yourself, and especially try to have positions of responsibility.

The more time you put between the IA and your application, the better.

Always have a Plan B.

 

[Ash055]

I can't sugar coat this, your medical career is either over, or in a deep state of stasis.

Here is the mindset you'll be facing, as Adcoms will ask:

1) Is this the sort of person we want in our Class?
2) Why take this kid when we have so many other candidates who didn't cheat?

My clinical colleagues especially take professionalism VERY seriously. They know that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students (there's published data on this).

Not report it? Do you really want to risk having and acceptance rescinded, or being kicked out of med school if you matriculate? And you wish to enter a profession that values professionalism and honesty? Really?

An IA like this might very well keep you out of med schools even with high stats.

For starters, don't screw up again. Finish college with an exemplary record.

Work for few years, engage in many acts of service to others less fortunate than yourself, and especially try to have positions of responsibility.

The more time you put between the IA and your application, the better.

Always have a Plan B.

Thank you for the honesty, I graduated in 2021 and I have had a lot of positions of responsibility since then. I am on gap year #1 of 2 and working in public health COVID research for refugees in and low SES neighborhoods in my community.

My plan is to report it, even if it shoots me in the foot.

Point of clarification for Q2: this was non-academic violation, are you using the word cheat broadly?

 

[wysdoc]

During my Sophomore year 2019, in lapse of judgment based on a dare, l regrettably stole a jacket from my university bookstore and was caught. I didn't even like the jacket. It was less than $100, so I received a non-academic theft IA as I was protected by the university (as opposed to legal consequences). This is also the first time I had ever done something like this (which is evident in me getting caught, ironically). My records are sealed by my universities student discipline committee and can't be released without my permission.

When I got caught:

- I went back and paid for the stolen merchandise
- Had to buy and take a judgement/ self-reflection course
- Meet with the dean of my college (which I am close with and expecting a letter of rec from)
- quarter of non-academic probation

Overall, I learned my lesson financially, socially, and morally. I have grown a lot from this experience and I don't think this event is a representation of me as an individual or a potential physician.

My questions are:

1. Is this lethal to my chances? If so, would it be better to not report it and risk an even worse dishonesty tag? (Although I strongly prefer to be honest given the circumstances)

2. How should I structure my IA report? How should I communicate this to medschools?

3. If my stats are borderline for some schools, do these circumstances screen me out automatically?

Any additional advice is welcome.

Your explanation of what happened needs some work. Heavier on the regret and foolishness of taking a dare to look cool to your friends and lighter on the "it wasn't that big a deal" comments.

"I didn't even like the jacket" Would it have been ok if you really loved it?
"It was less than $100.00" again, nobody cares, but this may have saved you from a criminal charge so be very glad.

Divulge this when asked on your application or secondary essays. As you said, omitting it and having it discovered would be even worse.

 

[LizzyM]

Lie, cheat, steal. All pretty much behaviors that we would not want to see in our medical students.

If a medical student stole something on a dare, and it became known that the same student had committed a similar offense as an undergrad, the adcom would have a lot of explaining to do regarding the decision to admit the thief to the medical school. That is always the chance we take in admitting someone with "a record". While it is difficult to prove that "this will never happen again" the adcom has to bet its reputation on that assertion.

 

[KnightDoc]

Lie, cheat, steal. All pretty much behaviors that we would not want to see in our medical students.

If a medical student stole something on a dare, and it became known that the same student had committed a similar offense as an undergrad, the adcom would have a lot of explaining to do regarding the decision to admit the thief to the medical school. That is always the chance we take in admitting someone with "a record". While it is difficult to prove that "this will never happen again" the adcom has to bet its reputation on that assertion.

This^^^^. And, for the record, even though you already said your plan is to divulge, you should realize going in that not divulging is not even an option. You will be giving the "permission" you said your school requires for release when you submit your primary to AMCAS, and again with each secondary application. You should rest assured that no med school will allow you to matriculate without reviewing your "sealed" disciplinary record.

As @Goro is saying, this will kill you at many, but not all, schools. If you are committed to becoming a doctor, there is nothing to do but take your shot. As everyone else has said, a ton of contrition and reflection will be required, and excuses won't resonate, so don't bother with them.

As others have also said, this is entirely separate and apart from stats. This will absolutely automatically screen you out at some schools, no matter how good your stats are for them. At schools that are willing to take a chance, there is no reason for borderline stats to give them pause. Good luck!!!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

You're going to need a lot of time between applying and this IA. If your stats aren't great, that's all the more reason to really think about your plan B but execute it a few years down the road. As I tell people early on as students starting their freshman year, choose your friends very wisely and make sure they don't get you into trouble. That said, this is definitely an application-killer for a lot of schools without some time to really reflect on it.

 

[Goro]

Thank you for the honesty, I graduated in 2021 and I have had a lot of positions of responsibility since then. I am on gap year #1 of 2 and working in public health COVID research for refugees in and low SES neighborhoods in my community.

Three years since the transgression? You need more to show me that you're grown as a person.

My plan is to report it, even if it shoots me in the foot.

Good, but you have to do that. Your school will have a record of it and Admissions staff checks for things like these.

Point of clarification for Q2: this was non-academic violation, are you using the word cheat broadly?

Sorry, meant to write steal instead of cheating. And I can forgive a stupid FR mistake on cheating. Stealing crosses a line for me. Now if you went and spent five years plus in the military, Americorps, or the Peace Corps, then I'd view you differently

 

[gyngyn]

During my Sophomore year 2019, in lapse of judgment based on a dare, l regrettably stole a jacket from my university bookstore and was caught. I didn't even like the jacket. It was less than $100, so I received a non-academic theft IA as I was protected by the university (as opposed to legal consequences). This is also the first time I had ever done something like this (which is evident in me getting caught, ironically). My records are sealed by my universities student discipline committee and can't be released without my permission.

When I got caught:

- I went back and paid for the stolen merchandise
- Had to buy and take a judgement/ self-reflection course
- Meet with the dean of my college (which I am close with and expecting a letter of rec from)
- quarter of non-academic probation

Overall, I learned my lesson financially, socially, and morally. I have grown a lot from this experience and I don't think this event is a representation of me as an individual or a potential physician.

My questions are:

1. Is this lethal to my chances? If so, would it be better to not report it and risk an even worse dishonesty tag? (Although I strongly prefer to be honest given the circumstances)

2. How should I structure my IA report? How should I communicate this to medschools?

3. If my stats are borderline for some schools, do these circumstances screen me out automatically?

Any additional advice is welcome.

Without regard to your university's decision, you are required to report this.
Institutional Action: Medical schools need to know if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment, require you to withdraw, or does not appear on your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition.

Sections 1-3 of the AMCAS® Application: Your Background Information

Guide for sections 1-3 of the AAMC's American Medical College Application Service® (AMCAS®) in which applicants will provide their background information.

students-residents.aamc.org

Lying, cheating and stealing are viewed askance.
You will have to sign an attestation that your AMCAS application has been filled out honestly, I recommend that you do not add lying to stealing.

 

[anonimo21]

ask this question on reddit and you will get a different response. people with IAs get in all the time (most commonly cheating, drugs, stealing, DUI, etc.). your medical career is not over, and depending on the circumstances if the university expunges your disciplinary record after graduation then do not report it !!!

edit: i’m begging you to get a different perspective, don’t let goro/LizzyM-while some truth to what they said- scare you into forgoing your dream career, this forum can have many neurotic takes. even if you have to report it, if you talk about it maturely and take accountability MD schools (most likely not T20) are still in reach.

 

[deleted314957]

I read, you are/were a thief. But it is OK because it was on a whim, you didn’t like the $100 coat and when you were caught you ponied up.

When I am pouring over thousands of apps, where do you think I am going to put yours.? In the stack of “ hopefully redeemable thieves”?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

ask this question on reddit and you will get a different response. people with IAs get in all the time (most commonly cheating, drugs, stealing, DUI, etc.). your medical career is not over, and depending on the circumstances if the university expunges your disciplinary record after graduation then do not report it !!!

edit: i’m begging you to get a different perspective, don’t let goro/LizzyM-while some truth to what they said- scare you into forgoing your dream career, this forum can have many neurotic takes. even if you have to report it, if you talk about it maturely and take accountability MD schools (most likely not T20) are still in reach.

Working in admissions as long as we have can make us neurotic, but we know what we see when reviewing applications with our peers. Take the advice you want to hear over the probabilities of how selection processes work. I don't know how reddit handles expert badges.

Sure there are people who got in with IA's but it usually came with a period of time after the incident. There may be other extenuating circumstances that may help the applicant get more leniency in the eyes of a committee but it is more an exception than a norm.

If this is the reason many will have to pay an extra $100 to take PREview...

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

You will need an otherwise outstanding application that might make some mid/low tier schools more willing to take a risk. Even then, it will require a lot of volume, as II and A rates will be much lower.

Most schools have enough applicants to say “why would/should we take somebody with this record when there are enough competitive applicants to fill the class 5 times over.

Don’t give up but try not to get expectations too high. Try to set yourself up for an alternative career while applying just in case.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

ask this question on reddit and you will get a different response. people with IAs get in all the time (most commonly cheating, drugs, stealing, DUI, etc.). your medical career is not over, and depending on the circumstances if the university expunges your disciplinary record after graduation then do not report it !!!

edit: i’m begging you to get a different perspective, don’t let goro/LizzyM-while some truth to what they said- scare you into forgoing your dream career, this forum can have many neurotic takes. even if you have to report it, if you talk about it maturely and take accountability MD schools (most likely not T20) are still in reach.

I know this is an unpopular opinion but ultimately adcoms are people with variable views and while it will kill your app in one school it might not at another.

I think for best chances of success I would consider military, peace corps, or something of equivalence.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I know this is an unpopular opinion but ultimately adcoms are people with variable views and while it will kill your app in one school it might not at another.

I think for best chances of success I would consider military, peace corps, or something of equivalence.

In this case, it is actually a bad thing. Most schools have some kind of ranking/voting system. It doesn’t really matter if some committee members will overlook the incident, because every member that doesn’t vote for you or gives you a low score hurts your chances. 20% with a negative opinion is probably enough to prevent admission

 

[LeeSin]

If I were you I would try to look into doing something to show you've learned your lesson. Get a part time job at loss prevention? Volunteer for victims of crime? I suggest these things because they can bring more weight to what you say below.

Overall, I learned my lesson financially, socially, and morally. I have grown a lot from this experience and I don't think this event is a representation of me as an individual or a potential physician.

It doesn't have to be what defines you, and you can try your best to turn it around. The best you can do is try to minimize the negativity this would bring. I know how tough an IA can be, and how heavy they can weigh on your conscience. Either way, good luck with everything.

 

[Gummydinosaur]

I know this is an unpopular opinion but ultimately adcoms are people with variable views and while it will kill your app in one school it might not at another.

I think for best chances of success I would consider military, peace corps, or something of equivalence.

I think people misunderstand the intentions of the advice adcoms give. They aren't trying to demoralize students, but they've seen that typically 99% of applicants don't get accepted when they have red flags like a recent IAs and no damage control. They are giving advice before students throw $5,000+ at the application process only to complain on threads, that I know we've all seen, that "applicants deserve a chance when they spend this kind of money."

They are giving posters a realistic critique that they will need to acknowledge and advice on how to fix it before their first application cycle so that they aren't a third or fourth time applicant that has now spent $20,000+ on applications.

 

[Goro]

ask this question on reddit and you will get a different response. people with IAs get in all the time (most commonly cheating, drugs, stealing, DUI, etc.). your medical career is not over, and depending on the circumstances if the university expunges your disciplinary record after graduation then do not report it !!!

edit: i’m begging you to get a different perspective, don’t let goro/LizzyM-while some truth to what they said- scare you into forgoing your dream career, this forum can have many neurotic takes. even if you have to report it, if you talk about it maturely and take accountability MD schools (most likely not T20) are still in reach.

Ahh, reddit. The Cesspool of the internet. Over there you'll find people who are very much into the "rah rah you can do it" cheerleading angle. Too bad none of them have over centuries worth of admissions committee experience like the admissions committee members here on sdn.

Yes people can get in with an IA. But people also win the lottery. That doesn't mean it's a good strategy for investing your retirement funds.

As an aside, what we do here is to give realistic advice, not to tell people what they want to hear.

 

[candbgirl]

ask this question on reddit and you will get a different response. people with IAs get in all the time (most commonly cheating, drugs, stealing, DUI, etc.). your medical career is not over, and depending on the circumstances if the university expunges your disciplinary record after graduation then do not report it !!!

edit: i’m begging you to get a different perspective, don’t let goro/LizzyM-while some truth to what they said- scare you into forgoing your dream career, this forum can have many neurotic takes. even if you have to report it, if you talk about it maturely and take accountability MD schools (most likely not T20) are still in reach.

And that’s sort of the reason for the multitude of negative responses. OP didn’t do that. OP responded as a person who got caught doing something that was stupid, illegal and immature . OP then proceeds to try to spin it that it wasn’t really bad because the jacket cost under $100, they didn’t really like it to begin with and it was done on a dare!
if OP wants a chance at some point they are going to have to acknowledge what they did, explain it in a mature and professional way and hope for the best.
Would this person have been more remorseful if they liked the jacket? If the cost was over $100? Who knows but trying to figure a path out starts with ownership.

 

[deleted314957]

I know this is an unpopular opinion but ultimately adcoms are people with variable views and while it will kill your app in one school it might not at another.

I think for best chances of success I would consider military, peace corps, or something of equivalence.

As a former Commander(O-5) pathologist in the USN, trained at Bethesda, San Diego, Portsmouth Virginia and the AFIP ( civilian after military and now retired), we don’t want your flotsam and jetsam, thank you very much.

 

[Proudfather94]

During my Sophomore year 2019, in lapse of judgment based on a dare, l regrettably stole a jacket from my university bookstore and was caught. I didn't even like the jacket. It was less than $100, so I received a non-academic theft IA as I was protected by the university (as opposed to legal consequences). This is also the first time I had ever done something like this (which is evident in me getting caught, ironically). My records are sealed by my universities student discipline committee and can't be released without my permission.

When I got caught:

- I went back and paid for the stolen merchandise
- Had to buy and take a judgement/ self-reflection course
- Meet with the dean of my college (which I am close with and expecting a letter of rec from)
- quarter of non-academic probation

Overall, I learned my lesson financially, socially, and morally. I have grown a lot from this experience and I don't think this event is a representation of me as an individual or a potential physician.

My questions are:

1. Is this lethal to my chances? If so, would it be better to not report it and risk an even worse dishonesty tag? (Although I strongly prefer to be honest given the circumstances)

2. How should I structure my IA report? How should I communicate this to medschools?

3. If my stats are borderline for some schools, do these circumstances screen me out automatically?

Any additional advice is welcome.

I'm sorry but this seems like it would be hard to overcome this. Stealing something on a dare is something I would expect a 10 year old to do let alone a college student. This is a big mark on both your judgment and character. Maybe if you spend a few years beefing your application up and going in with a few thousand hours of clinical and volunteer experience and a great MCAT some schools will be willing to believe you changed.

You have to think of situations where a lapse in judgement like you had that day could effect patients. Maybe you want more money so you bill things that you didn't do or maybe you bill Medicare or Medicaid for things you didn't do. That could hurt the patients you see or the place you work for and schools have to consider that possibility when enrolling you.

 

[SCallergydoc]

If you don't report it and your dean includes it in your letter, where are you?

 

[dabears505]

If you don't have to report it and it's sealed, why would you? Obviously they have thousands of other candidates that they can easily pass over your app. Don't listen to advice on here. You will not get in, especially being a mediocre candidate , by reporting it if you don't have to.

 

[NIHNewInnovator]

During my Sophomore year 2019, in lapse of judgment based on a dare, l regrettably stole a jacket from my university bookstore and was caught. I didn't even like the jacket. It was less than $100, so I received a non-academic theft IA as I was protected by the university (as opposed to legal consequences). This is also the first time I had ever done something like this (which is evident in me getting caught, ironically). My records are sealed by my universities student discipline committee and can't be released without my permission.

When I got caught:

- I went back and paid for the stolen merchandise
- Had to buy and take a judgement/ self-reflection course
- Meet with the dean of my college (which I am close with and expecting a letter of rec from)
- quarter of non-academic probation

Overall, I learned my lesson financially, socially, and morally. I have grown a lot from this experience and I don't think this event is a representation of me as an individual or a potential physician.

My questions are:

1. Is this lethal to my chances? If so, would it be better to not report it and risk an even worse dishonesty tag? (Although I strongly prefer to be honest given the circumstances)

2. How should I structure my IA report? How should I communicate this to medschools?

3. If my stats are borderline for some schools, do these circumstances screen me out automatically?

Any additional advice is welcome.

With nearly a decade of admission committee work I can tell you my experience with this type of situation. I would say 1/3 get rejected, 1/3 it gets ignored and they are admitted, and 1/3 it gets discussed. The ignored do not focus on it in their application. Short statement of fact, regret, and remorse - moved on. The discussed can go either way. An example was a student who stole a package of tee shirts because he had none. They were poor, his father lost his job, they were recent emigrant, he was the oldest and first in college (a very inexpensive college at that). When I interviewed him, it was clear they were poor - he wore a suit one or two sizes too small (he was tall). At the discussion I compared him to the Les Miserables character Jean Valjean and it was a hit with the committee. I'm a clinician in his family's community, he is now a radiology resident. If you get an admission committee member to believe in you and go to bat for you at the committee you'll get in. If the committee is having a bad day - you won't. For schools with rolling admissions (admit over the entire season), better to have your application in early.
Good luck!

 

[Goro]

If you don't have to report it and it's sealed, why would you? Obviously they have thousands of other candidates that they can easily pass over your app. Don't listen to advice on here. You will not get in, especially being a mediocre candidate , by reporting it if you don't have to.

What part of this don't you understand? You are encouraging someone to be dishonest in their application. Not exactly the best behavior for someone trying to enter a profession that values honesty and professionalism.

Without regard to your university's decision, you are required to report this.
Institutional Action: Medical schools need to know if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment, require you to withdraw, or does not appear on your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition.

Sections 1-3 of the AMCAS® Application: Your Background Information​

Guide for sections 1-3 of the AAMC's American Medical College Application Service® (AMCAS®) in which applicants will provide their background information.
students-residents.aamc.org

 

[Proudfather94]

What part of this don't you understand? You are encouraging someone to be dishonest in their application. Not exactly the best behavior for someone trying to enter a profession that values honesty and professionalism.

Without regard to your university's decision, you are required to report this.
Institutional Action: Medical schools need to know if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment, require you to withdraw, or does not appear on your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition.

Sections 1-3 of the AMCAS® Application: Your Background Information​

Guide for sections 1-3 of the AAMC's American Medical College Application Service® (AMCAS®) in which applicants will provide their background information.
students-residents.aamc.org

Wouldn't it be on their transcript when they transfer it?

 

[NIHNewInnovator]

Let's say you lose a point by having an IA, but if you are the only one reporting it (it's not anywhere else in your record) you get at least half of that point back. If you don't report it and get in, I've seen admission committee dean's come back to the committee with it and the applicant's admissions gets rescinded. I've never seen a candidate get in subsequently after having their admissions yanked.

 

[KnightDoc]

Wouldn't it be on their transcript when they transfer it?

Transfer what? In this case, it doesn't matter, because the record was sealed, not expunged. Presumably, that means it will NOT appear on the transcript, but will be disclosed in the Dean's Letter all schools require prior to matriculation.

The adcoms' point is that everyone should be honest, even if it kills their application, because it's the right thing to do, and the consequence of being caught in a lie later will be devastating, and objectively worse than not being admitted in the first place. Anyone telling OP to lie if it's sealed is just giving objectively terrible advice, because it presumes a sealed record won't be reported. It will be, because applicants explicitly authorize it when they apply, and schools require it (i.e., they want to know everything, not just the bad stuff that someone else doesn't graciously allow to be masked).

 

[Proudfather94]

Transfer what? In this case, it doesn't matter, because the record was sealed, not expunged. Presumably, that means it will NOT appear on the transcript, but will be disclosed in the Dean's Letter all schools require prior to matriculation.

The adcoms' point is that everyone should be honest, even if it kills their application, because it's the right thing to do, and the consequence of being caught in a lie later will be devastating, and objectively worse than not being admitted in the first place. Anyone telling OP to lie if it's sealed is just giving objectively terrible advice, because it presumes a sealed record won't be reported. It will be, because applicants explicitly authorize it when they apply, and schools require it (i.e., they want to know everything, not just the bad stuff that someone else doesn't graciously allow to be masked).

I was wondering if it would still show up as that would make not self reporting useless. I'm on the side that thinks they should disclose it. People that hide such things shouldn't go into a field where people can get hurt by hiding things.

 

[KnightDoc]

I was wondering if it would still show up as that would make not self reporting useless. I'm on the side that thinks they should disclose it. People that hide such things shouldn't go into a field where people can get hurt by hiding things.

Again, I am pretty sure it won't appear on the transcript if it is sealed, which is what makes the OP and some others to think he has a window to get away with something. I think the fact that it is not expunged means it WILL be reported when a med school asks for a Dean's Letter, which means the OP will have whatever acceptance he receives rescinded at that time if he has not previously disclosed.

 

[Proudfather94]

Op another thing to think about. Say you don't disclose and you somehow get in. You've taken almost 6 figures out in loans for your first year so you're stuck and now you have to hope for 4 years that you don't get caught. What's that going to do to your mental health during a period of your life where your mental health will likely be strained. Are you sure that won't wear you down eventually?

 

[pmcojm]

I also had an IA for a super dumb prank-like incident that I did (as a freshman). I worked hard in school after that, graduated with honors, did lots of research, published a clinical study, and crushed the MCAT. I ended up getting one, count 'em, one interview (at a mid-tier MD school). I didn't even get an interview at the state school I was attending or any other schools in my state (and there are many). During my interview, I was asked about the IA. With my scores, GPA, and other things, I am certain I would have had many more interviews if I had not had the IA.

The good news is that I did get admitted at the school where I interviewed (straight out of college), and I am starting my fourth year there and am at the very top of my class. So, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Bottom line--the IA is not the end of the world for you. You should address it outright in any applications that allow you to add "anything else" or discuss it in your personal statement. Own it completely. Admit your immaturity and express deep regret. You can get past it.

 

[dabears505]

I also had an IA for a super dumb prank-like incident that I did (as a freshman). I worked super hard in school after that, graduated with honors, did lots of research, published a clinical study, and crushed the MCAT. I ended up getting one, count 'em, one interview (at a mid-tier MD school). I didn't even get an interview at the state school I was attending or any other schools in my state (and there are many). During my interview, I was asked about the IA. With my scores, GPA, and other things, I am certain I would have had many more interviews if I had not had the IA.

The good news is that I did get admitted at the school where I interviewed (straight our of college), and I am starting my fourth year there and am at the very top of my class. So, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Bottom line--the IA is not the end of the world for you. You should address it outright in any applications that allow you to add "anything else" or discuss it in your personal statement. Own it completely. Admit your immaturity and express deep regret. You can get past it.

If this man with a stellar mcat got one interview, what chance does op have?

 

[Proudfather94]

If this man with a stellar mcat got one interview, what chance does op have?

They still have a chance. Do you know how much anxiety keeping a secret like that would cause? And while the chances are small they can be outed by someone if they do manage to not get caught before they start. Bitter past classmate that got jealous op got in with an IA and they didn't? They can report. Ex mad that they broke up with them and they know? They can report. Op would be put in a spot where they need to keep this lie and are a sitting duck to anyone with enough beef to spill the beans.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

During my Sophomore year 2019, in lapse of judgment based on a dare, l regrettably stole a jacket from my university bookstore and was caught. I didn't even like the jacket. It was less than $100, so I received a non-academic theft IA as I was protected by the university (as opposed to legal consequences). This is also the first time I had ever done something like this (which is evident in me getting caught, ironically). My records are sealed by my universities student discipline committee and can't be released without my permission.

When I got caught:

- I went back and paid for the stolen merchandise
- Had to buy and take a judgement/ self-reflection course
- Meet with the dean of my college (which I am close with and expecting a letter of rec from)
- quarter of non-academic probation

Overall, I learned my lesson financially, socially, and morally. I have grown a lot from this experience and I don't think this event is a representation of me as an individual or a potential physician.

My questions are:

1. Is this lethal to my chances? If so, would it be better to not report it and risk an even worse dishonesty tag? (Although I strongly prefer to be honest given the circumstances)

2. How should I structure my IA report? How should I communicate this to medschools?

3. If my stats are borderline for some schools, do these circumstances screen me out automatically?

Any additional advice is welcome.

We’ve all done stupid **** at some point in our lives. I think that what will help you is putting some years between you and this incident, making sure that you do not have any more lapses in judgement, and when it comes to applying to medical school, you’ll need to report this (Don’t even think about not reporting this). I had a very similar, though slightly more serious situation than yours.



In Winter 1993, I was hanging out with a friend, and we stole a bicycle in Henderson, TX. We were arrested, spent the weekend in jail and ultimately, we were charged with a Class B misdemeanor. This affected my life for some time; when I left the active-duty Army, it took almost 10 years before I was able to get a job working as a civilian paramedic (Texas doesn’t play) and I realized that this whole thing was going to potentially be a barrier to me getting into medical school. I obtained a letter from the prosecuting district attorney attesting to me having completed my probation AND he was able to talk about a program that I started in town that was designed to give teenagers an alternative to the gangs and drugs that were rampant in town at the time. I also made sure to stay out of trouble in the intervening years so that helped. I addressed the issue briefly in my primary applications; I didn’t blame peer pressure or youthful indiscretions for what were my actions, nor did I try to minimize my actions by saying the bike only cost $200. I made a poor decision by stealing a bike and I recognized how serious of an issue this is in light of me wanting to enter a career where trust is paramount. I highlighted what I’d done in the intervening years to show how I wasn’t the same person that I was in 1993 and briefly discussed lessons learned. That was it. When I applied to medical school, I was offered five interviews, attended four of them and was admitted to all four schools. One of my interviewers asked a few questions related to the program that I started in Henderson, TX for teens, but outside of that, I haven’t had to speak on it. Since that time, I’ve been able to obtain my civilian paramedic license though every time I renew, I do have to divulge this misdemeanor conviction and when I apply for a medical license, I have to divulge it. Not sure if this will be the case for you when you get to that point.



As others have said, you need to put some time between you and this incident. How much time, I cannot say. For me, I literally had decades between me and my misdemeanor conviction. I don’t want to suggest that you’ll need that kind of time but at the same time, I can see how five to 10 years between you and the incident, with no other transgressions and a strong record of volunteerism, etc., could be very useful to you.I have a friend who was able to gain admissions to a US medical school with a felony on her record but again, she had years between her and the event. I think that you have a chance at admissions to medical school but how much of a chance, I think, is going to be totally dependent on what you do to distance yourself from this. Understand that its not going to be a quick fix though so you will have to be patient.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Here’s a cautionary tale about not being up front on your application. Don’t be like this person.

Rutgers Disciplinary Action Disclosure

Does anyone have any experience with the RSDM disciplinary action disclosure during the whole interview process? I guess I had something on my record that I didn't disclose because no action was taken, and I didn't want to risk self incrimination if it wasn't necessary. The only reason I even...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Big Hoss

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Here’s a cautionary tale about not being up front on your application. Don’t be like this person.

Rutgers Disciplinary Action Disclosure

Does anyone have any experience with the RSDM disciplinary action disclosure during the whole interview process? I guess I had something on my record that I didn't disclose because no action was taken, and I didn't want to risk self incrimination if it wasn't necessary. The only reason I even...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Big Hoss

Just read through the whole thread. Moral of the story? Honesty and disclosure. The attempt to cover up may well be FAR worse than the crime...

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

Had an IA of similar magnitude and was accepted 9 years after it happened. You need to put a lot of life in between the IA and when you apply. I recommend starting an alternate career and returning to medicine later. Speaking from personal experience, 9 years is a long time to spend in limbo.

 

[Goro]

If this man with a stellar mcat got one interview, what chance does op have?

Impossible to answer. A single great metric doesn't make an app even without an IA.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I also had an IA for a super dumb prank-like incident that I did (as a freshman). I worked hard in school after that, graduated with honors, did lots of research, published a clinical study, and crushed the MCAT. I ended up getting one, count 'em, one interview (at a mid-tier MD school). I didn't even get an interview at the state school I was attending or any other schools in my state (and there are many). During my interview, I was asked about the IA. With my scores, GPA, and other things, I am certain I would have had many more interviews if I had not had the IA.

The good news is that I did get admitted at the school where I interviewed (straight out of college), and I am starting my fourth year there and am at the very top of my class. So, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Bottom line--the IA is not the end of the world for you. You should address it outright in any applications that allow you to add "anything else" or discuss it in your personal statement. Own it completely. Admit your immaturity and express deep regret. You can get past it.

Imo a prank and theft aren’t going to be looked at in the same light.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Making things clear: In general institutional actions are NEVER reported on a transcript. In rare cases (for whatever reason), SOME transcripts may make notations for grades that are recorded due to academic misconduct, but that is very rare.

It should be rule #1 for prehealth students: stay out of trouble.

 

[LizzyM]

Making things clear: In general institutional actions are NEVER reported on a transcript. In rare cases (for whatever reason), SOME transcripts may make notations for grades that are recorded due to academic misconduct, but that is very rare.

It should be rule #1 for prehealth students: stay out of trouble.

Academic probation due to poor grades is an institutional action and it may be on the transcript. Suspension or dismissal for misconduct might be on the transcript. (This would be for very serious misconduct such as an assault.)

Rule #1: Stay out of trouble.
Rule #2: If you get into trouble, don't even think of NOT reporting it on your AMCAS application. Failure to disclose is a lie and whatever you did is made worse when you lie about it.

 

[LizzyM]

Is a good rule of thumb that if you don't have anything appear on a request for disciplinary records, you're good to go?

I don't know what you mean by "good to go" but Rule #3 is always to abide by the AMCAS instruction manual, "If you were ever the recipient of any institutional action by any college or medical school for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violation, you must answer Yes, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. Furthermore, select Yes even if the action does not appear on, or has been deleted or expunged from, your official transcripts as a consequence of institutional policy or personal petition."

 

[LizzyM]

Well I assumed if nothing appears on a disciplinary record then it's not an IA.

Then you would be wrong if you know that you were the subject of an institutional action.

 

[LizzyM]

How does one verify whether something is an institutional action to complete certainty, then? If they read the AMCAS definition to the office of student conduct, and the office says it's not an IA, is it therefore not an IA?

Get it in writing that you have never been the subject of an institutional action. Don't play because the consequences of knowingly falsifying the AMCAS application is to be barred from applying at all.

 

[Goro]

Well I assumed if nothing appears on a disciplinary record then it's not an IA.

My school has rejected people who were outed by LOR writers who wrote things like "Toxo has grown so much as a person since the cheating incident".

 

[el799]

I don't know what you mean by "good to go" but Rule #3 is always to abide by the AMCAS instruction manual, "If you were ever the recipient of any institutional action by any college or medical school for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violation, you must answer Yes, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. Furthermore, select Yes even if the action does not appear on, or has been deleted or expunged from, your official transcripts as a consequence of institutional policy or personal petition."

Last part is unenforceable. If law/policy is that the records are FULLY sealed, than they are sealed. AMCAS can tell you you have to report it, but if you don't and still somehow the info is divulged and you're dinged for it, depending on the context of the record seal you may very well have a legal case against where the record leak came from.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Last part is unenforceable. If law/policy is that the records are FULLY sealed, than they are sealed. AMCAS can tell you you have to report it, but if you don't and still somehow the info is divulged and you're dinged for it, depending on the context of the record seal you may very well have a legal case against where the record leak came from.

Sealed cases will still show up on an FBI fingerprint check which most clinical sites especially VA use. If the clinical site doesn’t let one do rotations due to the sealed record (varies State by state whether it can be used), then that person is basically sol

 

[xffan624]

Sealed cases will still show up on an FBI fingerprint check which most clinical sites especially VA use. If the clinical site doesn’t let one do rotations due to the sealed record (varies State by state whether it can be used), then that person is basically sol

Back to OP's case, it's an IA which I doubt is going to show up on a FBI fingerprint check unless I missed something in the original post.

 

[KnightDoc]

Back to OP's case, it's an IA which I doubt is going to show up on a FBI fingerprint check unless I missed something in the original post.

You missed the part where OP said "My records are sealed by my universities student discipline committee and can't be released without my permission."

OP is going to give permission when they submit their secondaries, and the "sealed" IA will be disclosed in the Dean's Letter the med school will receive before matriculation, at which point OP will be SOL if they made it that far without disclosing based on the legal advice being given on SDN.