Still struggling with the residency and match closes in 10 days!

[MatCauthon]

Here is a survey for everyone here. I am really looking forward to reading your answers because I am personally struggling whether to put my name in the residency match or not. I am have a solid connection at 1 program and believe I would match if I selected that program as my #1. However, I only have about a week left and I can't figure out if I really want to do a residency or if I even have the proper motivation for it. My main motivation right now seems to be fear that if I don't do a residency I will get stuck in retail forever with no career advancement options. However, I'm feeling kind of tired and not sure how much I have in the tank for an intense residency.

I honestly can't figure out what I want to do. Other than a retail floating job at a decent chain, I don't have any other offers for post-graduation.

One thing I've learned is that I don't desire to work in in-patient, acute care, ICU, academia, or research very much. Some ambulatory areas such as anti-coagulation are kind of interesting to me. Probably my biggest interests may be in long-term care, home infusion, and transition pharmacy. I don't mind the retail chain I work at, but I can imagine getting bored of it a 5 years or less. Given my interests, I wonder how much a residency will help at this point. Any pointers will be extremely helpful, and I'm sure a few other people may appreciate them as well! Thanks!

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[confettiflyer]

Here is a survey for everyone here. I am really looking forward to reading your answers because I am personally struggling whether to put my name in the residency match or not. I am have a solid connection at 1 program and believe I would match if I selected that program as my #1. However, I only have about a week left and I can't figure out if I really want to do a residency or if I even have the proper motivation for it. My main motivation right now seems to be fear that if I don't do a residency I will get stuck in retail forever with no career advancement options. However, I'm feeling kind of tired and not sure how much I have in the tank for an intense residency.

I honestly can't figure out what I want to do. Other than a retail floating job at a decent chain, I don't have any other offers for post-graduation.

One thing I've learned is that I don't desire to work in in-patient, acute care, ICU, academia, or research very much. Some ambulatory areas such as anti-coagulation are kind of interesting to me. Probably my biggest interests may be in long-term care, home infusion, and transition pharmacy. I don't mind the retail chain I work at, but I can imagine getting bored of it a 5 years or less. Given my interests, I wonder how much a residency will help at this point. Any pointers will be extremely helpful, and I'm sure a few other people may appreciate them as well! Thanks!

Think of your absolute worst day in retail. Sit in a chair, and relive that moment for a few hours.

If that doesn't send you running to turn in your match card, then I don't know what will.

Also, if you don't match and go into retail and hate it, you have no light at the end of the tunnel and/or you're stuck for 5 years.

If you go into residency and hate it, the light is <12 month away and you'll have something interesting to talk about at the end.

Turn in your card, and take a 2 week vacation somewhere. All of us P-4's are tired/mentally checked out, so you're not alone.

 

[joe melby]

Also, how do you know that residency will necessarily be any more difficult than working grueling long shifts in the retail world? At least you get lunch breaks and can use the restroom whenever you please.

I have spoken to many residency-trained pharmacists, from tough academic teaching hospitals, who tell me that it is not nearly as difficult as many people make it out to be.

 

[spacecowgirl]

My residency was a cake walk compared to the moonlighting I did at Wags during that year.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Now I want cake.

 

[rxlea]

Now I want cake.

I have cake. Bake sale at school.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

 

[confettiflyer]

Now I want cake.

red velvet?

 

[xiphoid2010]

I have spoken to many residency-trained pharmacists, from tough academic teaching hospitals, who tell me that it is not nearly as difficult as many people make it out to be.

Unlike jobs, much of residency work load/hours is self managed. While other residents are complaining about all the stuff that needs to get done, long hours spent to do projects well and ahead of schedule just felt good to me. Residency was fun for me! (did hate the damned Resitrack)

So a lot is what's driving you, sticks or carrots? If you are pushed by the threat of not getting it done, then residency will be a drag; but if it's the pull of potential rewards of doing it well, then you'll find it fun.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Any kind of cake would be fine. I'm not picky.

 

[mustang sally]

Any kind of cake would be fine. I'm not picky.

Mmmm...funfetti cake sounds good right about now!

Anyway, they always say on here if you even think you might want to do a residency to go ahead and do it. That's kind of what I'm rolling with because I do feel burnt out at times (though my last two rotations are a cake walk, so I will probably be good to go by the time residency rolls around, assuming I match).

 

[KARM12]

If you really don't want to do a residency then don't waste my time.

 

[Dalteparin]

If you really don't want to do a residency then don't waste my time.

Don't take a spot away from someone who really does want to do a residency, either.

 

[confettiflyer]

Don't take a spot away from someone who really does want to do a residency, either.

screw that, every man for himself in this job market.

I wonder, out of the current 2011-2012 residents, how many are truly/madly/deeply all about residency or used it for more pragmatic reasons (ie a safe spot to wait out the job market, guaranteed job for a year, anything but retail/means to an end).

 

[Dalteparin]

screw that, every man for himself in this job market.

I wonder, out of the current 2011-2012 residents, how many are truly/madly/deeply all about residency or used it for more pragmatic reasons (ie a safe spot to wait out the job market, guaranteed job for a year, anything but retail/means to an end).

There's nothing wrong with seeing residency as a means to an end. Pursuing residency when you're not even interested in the end is a waste of everybody's time and money.

 

[confettiflyer]

ugh this wait is killing me, i have this GIANT list of "things to do on match day" which contains several thousands of dollars worth of flights, shipping, car transport, lease termination, etc...

i just want to know which ones i shred and which one i go with (if any at all).

@#&%$^@#%!@*#@!^@^

 

[KARM12]

screw that, every man for himself in this job market.

I wonder, out of the current 2011-2012 residents, how many are truly/madly/deeply all about residency or used it for more pragmatic reasons (ie a safe spot to wait out the job market, guaranteed job for a year, anything but retail/means to an end).

Seems like a waste to be working like a dog for half pay and not planning on doing anything with it.

Let me tell you, those that don't really want to do it are the ones that struggle the most.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Mmmm...funfetti cake sounds good right about now!

Hello, trans fat!

 

[confettiflyer]

What's life without a little trans fat now and again?

 

[mustang sally]

I don't have any qualms about being in the match but I keep flip flopping between my #2 and #3 choices. Both have pros and cons that make them difficult to rank in my mind...

 

[KARM12]

I don't have any qualms about being in the match but I keep flip flopping between my #2 and #3 choices. Both have pros and cons that make them difficult to rank in my mind...

What are the pros/cons?

 

[mustang sally]

What are the pros/cons?

Both programs are at large academic medical centers that I think would provide pretty good quality residencies. I liked the preceptors, activites, general environment etc. at both places.

Program A pros: Smaller size residency class, instant name recognition on a nation wide level, tons of interesting/unique opportunities for rotations, it's in a town that I could more see myself long term.
Program A cons: It's an extremely intense residency as far as residencies go. Lots of staffing, projects, etc. All of the residents said they had had at least one break down/ panic attack during the course of the year so far.

Program B pros: Still a good residency but more emphasis on work/life balance (e.g. don't have to do your rotation and staff on the same day, week off around the holidays, etc. etc.), higher stipend, can pick up extra shifts for regular pay
Program B cons: It already has a pretty large PGY-1 class and they are expanding again for 2012-2013. Could be fun to have a large class but there will be more competition for rotations, PGY-2s, and we won't have our own work space (not a deal breaker for me but still a con), in a less desirable city to me to live in (but at least I will have some free time to actually explore the city).

I'm leaning towards program B because I have a family and would like to see them at least occasionally during the year. Plus I don't really want to have a nervous break down. But there is still something about program A that I feel compelled by. Maybe it is just my masochistic side pushing me towards it?

 

[bacillus1]

Program A pros: Smaller size residency class, instant name recognition on a nation wide level, tons of interesting/unique opportunities for rotations, it's in a town that I could more see myself long term.
Program A cons: It's an extremely intense residency as far as residencies go. Lots of staffing, projects, etc. All of the residents said they had had at least one break down/ panic attack during the course of the year so far.

Program B pros: Still a good residency but more emphasis on work/life balance (e.g. don't have to do your rotation and staff on the same day, week off around the holidays, etc. etc.), higher stipend, can pick up extra shifts for regular pay
Program B cons: It already has a pretty large PGY-1 class and they are expanding again for 2012-2013. Could be fun to have a large class but there will be more competition for rotations, PGY-2s, and we won't have our own work space (not a deal breaker for me but still a con), in a less desirable city to me to live in (but at least I will have some free time to actually explore the city).

I'd go with B.

 

[KARM12]

Both programs are at large academic medical centers that I think would provide pretty good quality residencies. I liked the preceptors, activites, general environment etc. at both places.

Program A pros: Smaller size residency class, instant name recognition on a nation wide level, tons of interesting/unique opportunities for rotations, it's in a town that I could more see myself long term.
Program A cons: It's an extremely intense residency as far as residencies go. Lots of staffing, projects, etc. All of the residents said they had had at least one break down/ panic attack during the course of the year so far.

Program B pros: Still a good residency but more emphasis on work/life balance (e.g. don't have to do your rotation and staff on the same day, week off around the holidays, etc. etc.), higher stipend, can pick up extra shifts for regular pay
Program B cons: It already has a pretty large PGY-1 class and they are expanding again for 2012-2013. Could be fun to have a large class but there will be more competition for rotations, PGY-2s, and we won't have our own work space (not a deal breaker for me but still a con), in a less desirable city to me to live in (but at least I will have some free time to actually explore the city).

I'm leaning towards program B because I have a family and would like to see them at least occasionally during the year. Plus I don't really want to have a nervous break down. But there is still something about program A that I feel compelled by. Maybe it is just my masochistic side pushing me towards it?

Sounds like A is better for professional reasons and B is better for personal reasons.

I will say not having your own work space would be a pain in the butt as a resident. But if you're worried about having break down, then maybe you shouldn't do A.

 

[ucrx]

Also, how do you know that residency will necessarily be any more difficult than working grueling long shifts in the retail world? At least you get lunch breaks and can use the restroom whenever you please.

I have spoken to many residency-trained pharmacists, from tough academic teaching hospitals, who tell me that it is not nearly as difficult as many people make it out to be.

Lunch break? You mean eat while I work? Then yes.

Don't get me wrong, I think the physical demands are less than retail. But when considering residency despite having no interest in it, there are several things to consider:
-Your work day doesn't have to be ridiculously long, but you will frequently/always bring work home to do. If you struggle with doing work at home, you will spend ridiculously long days in the office.
-Days off are practically nonexistent. Depending on your staffing requirements, you could work 17 out of every 21 days without any weekdays off. If you have a lot of projects or moonlight, your weekends will be shot. And it can be incredibly difficult trying to get normal errands and appointments done.
-Much of what you do in residency impacts patients. If you decide to slack off because you don't care, it can impact someone in a serious way.
-Preceptors put in extra work and hours to train you. If you don't care and it shows, it is extremely frustrating on their end.

This all varies by program of course. I remember someone posting that they worked 16-20 hour days with all their projects while I was a PGY1 and thought they were crazy. I had no idea that would be me during PGY2.

I think people need to remember it isn't just 12 months. It can be an extremely busy and exhausting 12 months. If it is what you want and/or it gets you the job you want, then it is worth it. If it isn't, I think I'd rather be spending those long days on my feet in retail.

Also, can someone bring me cake?

 

[KARM12]

Lunch break? You mean eat while I work? Then yes.

Don't get me wrong, I think the physical demands are less than retail. But when considering residency despite having no interest in it, there are several things to consider:
-Your work day doesn't have to be ridiculously long, but you will frequently/always bring work home to do. If you struggle with doing work at home, you will spend ridiculously long days in the office.
-Days off are practically nonexistent. Depending on your staffing requirements, you could work 17 out of every 21 days without any weekdays off. If you have a lot of projects or moonlight, your weekends will be shot. And it can be incredibly difficult trying to get normal errands and appointments done.
-Much of what you do in residency impacts patients. If you decide to slack off because you don't care, it can impact someone in a serious way.
-Preceptors put in extra work and hours to train you. If you don't care and it shows, it is extremely frustrating on their end.

This all varies by program of course. I remember someone posting that they worked 16-20 hour days with all their projects while I was a PGY1 and thought they were crazy. I had no idea that would be me during PGY2.

I think people need to remember it isn't just 12 months. It can be an extremely busy and exhausting 12 months. If it is what you want and/or it gets you the job you want, then it is worth it. If it isn't, I think I'd rather be spending those long days on my feet in retail.

Also, can someone bring me cake?

Pretty much agree with all of this. I can count on my hands the number of times I actually sat in the cafeteria to eat lunch when I was a resident. It was usually eat as fast as I could between rounds and meetings at my desk, while working.

I was one of those who was not productive working at home so I would often go into the office on my weekends off or stay really late to finish projects.

I think many students are naive about the committment a residency program takes. It is so different than student rotations. It becomes your life for the year.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I was one of those who was not productive working at home so I would often go into the office on my weekends off or stay really late to finish projects.

3rd. I was probably the one of the ones who did 16-20 hour days at work.

(1) wife watching TV, munching on chips, playing games, talking on the phone, telling me to do this or that chore...I can't work with that!
(2) to look onto work system from home requires going through a super slow VPN system. Stuff that takes 8 hours at home to do can be done in 4 hours using intranet.
(3) once everyone leaves, you can use everything! No waiting in line for copier, you can "borrow" everyone's stapler, tape, paper clips. Extra time saving!

 

[xiphoid2010]

Both programs are at large academic medical centers that I think would provide pretty good quality residencies. I liked the preceptors, activites, general environment etc. at both places.

Program A pros: Smaller size residency class, instant name recognition on a nation wide level, tons of interesting/unique opportunities for rotations, it's in a town that I could more see myself long term.
Program A cons: It's an extremely intense residency as far as residencies go. Lots of staffing, projects, etc. All of the residents said they had had at least one break down/ panic attack during the course of the year so far.

Program B pros: Still a good residency but more emphasis on work/life balance (e.g. don't have to do your rotation and staff on the same day, week off around the holidays, etc. etc.), higher stipend, can pick up extra shifts for regular pay
Program B cons: It already has a pretty large PGY-1 class and they are expanding again for 2012-2013. Could be fun to have a large class but there will be more competition for rotations, PGY-2s, and we won't have our own work space (not a deal breaker for me but still a con), in a less desirable city to me to live in (but at least I will have some free time to actually explore the city).

I'm leaning towards program B because I have a family and would like to see them at least occasionally during the year. Plus I don't really want to have a nervous break down. But there is still something about program A that I feel compelled by. Maybe it is just my masochistic side pushing me towards it?

I personally would go A unless you really think you will snap.

It's one year. People likes to whine and complain, but very few actually breaks. When it comes your career, I say push the envelope, go all out to achieve your objectives. The worst thing taking the easier path and then fall short, you'll be let to regret it all your life.

 

[bacillus1]

I thought I had it all figured out, but now I'm also having second thoughts on which program I want to rank higher:

Program A:
Medium-sized hospital (>300 beds) but within a large university health system
Few clinical pharmacists, but they're all very knowledgeable
Not affiliated with a college of pharmacy (though limited opportunities to teach exist)
Very good acute care experiences, some am care (and I like am care better, though the ability to get a job in this field is questionable)
Great location
More reasonable staffing requirements

Program B:
Small hospital (200 beds), but program is affiliated with a college of pharmacy. A lot of teaching experiences, as well as a teaching certificate offered.
I believe the clinical pharmacists in this program aren't as experienced within their areas of practice as in program A.
Less variety of acute care experiences.
Availability of up to 3 am care rotations.
Worse location
This program has on-call, but the residents said it isn't too often.

Just trying to figure out how important a teaching certificate and an extra month or 2 of ambulatory care would be for me in a PGY1. Otherwise I think I'd go with program A.

 

[mustang sally]

I thought I had it all figured out, but now I'm also having second thoughts on which program I want to rank higher:

Program A:
Medium-sized hospital (>300 beds) but within a large university health system
Few clinical pharmacists, but they're all very knowledgeable
Not affiliated with a college of pharmacy (though limited opportunities to teach exist)
Very good acute care experiences, some am care (and I like am care better, though the ability to get a job in this field is questionable)
Great location
More reasonable staffing requirements

Program B:
Small hospital (200 beds), but program is affiliated with a college of pharmacy. A lot of teaching experiences, as well as a teaching certificate offered.
I believe the clinical pharmacists in this program aren't as experienced within their areas of practice as in program A.
Less variety of acute care experiences.
Availability of up to 3 am care rotations.
Worse location
This program has on-call, but the residents said it isn't too often.

Just trying to figure out how important a teaching certificate and an extra month or 2 of ambulatory care would be for me in a PGY1. Otherwise I think I'd go with program A.

Sounds like the same type of problem I'm having. I guess it would say it depends on what factors are more important to you. Ha, ha...so easy to say, yet so hard to rank. I woke up having a bad dream about my match list the night before last. Guess I should stop second guessing myself and just go with my first impressions.

 

[evildarklord]

I need help too, and the deadline is only like 12 hours away!!!

Program A:
Medium-sized hospital (~350 beds), private/community teaching hospital but not university-affiliated. The physician-pharmacist relationship inside the hospital sometimes can be rough from what I heard. Also houses pharmacy students from at least 3 different schools (good teaching opportunities, although there's no requirement and teaching certificate option), good ICUs for critical care program but also has outpatient amb care ( I don't really like amb care though! I'd rather work inpatient and acute care stuff) Electives are ok with Cardio, Transplant, Oncology, but none of that are very outstanding. Clinical pharmacists are great and knowledgeable, but a few of them I didn't feel too friendly. Biggest drawback is not so much up-to-date with technology, no EMR/CPOE yet, paperchart only. Staffing and longitudinal requirement is a little too much: weekly on top of other projects. Had PGY2 options same site in Critical Care and ID, and many former residents decided to stay on with the hospital after finishing.

Program B:
large-scale hospital (~550 beds) and university-affiliated. Major teaching hospital in the area, houses pharmacy students infrequently from one to two schools of pharmacy (lack of teaching opportunities from the pharmacy side, but LOTs from the medical team). Extremely focused in acute/critical care (I love this!), lack of amb care option, but willing to send students off-site for different exposure. Also strong Oncology program and extra electives including Transplants, Psychiatric, ER, Cardio. Clinical pharmacists are also very knowledgeable and experienced in their stuff. CPOE and EMR all the way! The program is structured so that residents will be very self-motivated and easier with staffing requirement (every other weekend). Biggest drawback is still a relatively new program (only around for a couple of years). Former residents are either clinical pharmacists somewhere else and/or continued PGY2/fellowship at different place since the program is still not expanding further than a PGy1 only.

Both in the same city, serving different sides and populations of the city, but typically Hospital B gets the more complicated patients sent off from Hospital A.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Submitted our rank list yesterday. It's nerve-wracking from the site standpoint too!

 

[RX86]

Does it mean anything when the residency program sends you a detailed e-mail of appreciation a few days prior to match rankings are due? Think they send that to everyone or just perhaps candidates they hope will rank them high?

 

[PrescriptionX]

I do believe that such an email was not typical and was sent to show interest in you.

 

[ben10]

Does it mean anything when the residency program sends you a detailed e-mail of appreciation a few days prior to match rankings are due? Think they send that to everyone or just perhaps candidates they hope will rank them high?

What state if you dont mind me asking?

 

[KARM12]

Submitted our rank list yesterday. It's nerve-wracking from the site standpoint too!

Ugh, I agree. We did a good job with the rank list, but it is so hard to tell!

 

[minette]

For programs with multiple spots available, do you have one rank list or do you have a rank list for each spot?...I was just wondering...

Ugh, I agree. We did a good job with the rank list, but it is so hard to tell!

 

[pharmwife]

Does it mean anything when the residency program sends you a detailed e-mail of appreciation a few days prior to match rankings are due? Think they send that to everyone or just perhaps candidates they hope will rank them high?

What does it mean if you get one of these emails, but sent 10 mins AFTER the rankings closed? Perhaps trying to stick to the match rules by not giving away they ranked you high? It was also sent directly by the program director...

 

[KARM12]

For programs with multiple spots available, do you have one rank list or do you have a rank list for each spot?...I was just wondering...

If your program has 5 spots, you enter 1 rank list in order of preference for candidates. The computer goes down the candidates list and ranks them according to their preference and the program's order. If you rank a program #1, but you are number 10 on my list and candidates 2-6 on my list rank me #1 (or some other number, but other programs didn't rank them high enough to match), then you won't match with my program. If I rank you 10 on my list, but only get candidates 3 and 7, then you would match.

 

[KARM12]

Does it mean anything when the residency program sends you a detailed e-mail of appreciation a few days prior to match rankings are due? Think they send that to everyone or just perhaps candidates they hope will rank them high?

Depends on the program, but probably shows they have an interest in you.

This does not violate the match rules because they don't say anything about rankings. "I enjoyed meeting you and you made a good impression on the program." Good impression could mean you are on the list, but could be #1 versus #30. This is same as a candidate sending in a thank you note.

 

[mustang sally]

I got a couple of those e-mails too and now I'm wondering if it's a bad sign for the programs that didn't send me any e-mail communication. Ugh, wish match day hurries up and gets here soon!

 

[KARM12]

I got a couple of those e-mails too and now I'm wondering if it's a bad sign for the programs that didn't send me any e-mail communication. Ugh, wish match day hurries up and gets here soon!

No, not necessarily a bad sign. Some programs don't send them to anyone. I know that my program does not.

 

[minette]

Thanks!!! so a program with 5 spots has at least 15 to 25 candidates on their list....?
I was talking to the residency director at my school and she told me that when selecting candidates, they also look at the geographic location(if they are from out of state)...even though they tend to prefer their students, they always want half of the residents to come from an out of state school...Is it true for most programs? or others will stick with their students?

If your program has 5 spots, you enter 1 rank list in order of preference for candidates. The computer goes down the candidates list and ranks them according to their preference and the program's order. If you rank a program #1, but you are number 10 on my list and candidates 2-6 on my list rank me #1 (or some other number, but other programs didn't rank them high enough to match), then you won't match with my program. If I rank you 10 on my list, but only get candidates 3 and 7, then you would match.

 

[KARM12]

Thanks!!! so a program with 5 spots has at least 15 to 25 candidates on their list....?
I was talking to the residency director at my school and she told me that when selecting candidates, they also look at the geographic location(if they are from out of state)...even though they tend to prefer their students, they always want half of the residents to come from an out of state school...Is it true for most programs? or others will stick with their students?

-Number of positions:number ranked: number interviewed, depends on the program. I think the average is 1:5 for interviews and ranking is program specific. We did not rank ~1/4 of the applicants we interviewed for various reasons.
-Geographic preference depends on the program. We are not directly affiliated with a college of pharmacy, so it is probably less of a big deal. We tend to get a lot of applicants from our local schools, followed by a large number from our region in the country (Midwest), and then the random schools that are far away. We interview the best applicants and try to make sure we have a variety of schools represented.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I didn't send any emails to candidates. It never crossed my mind.

 

[bluejacket]

I didn't send any emails to candidates. It never crossed my mind.

Well, you can still send them out - better late than never.

 

[BenJammin]

Submitted our rank list yesterday. It's nerve-wracking from the site standpoint too!

How exactly does that work? If you rank me one and I rank you two, am I screwed?

 

[confettiflyer]

How exactly does that work? If you rank me one and I rank you two, am I screwed?

It means you'll go to the program you rank 1 assuming no one else above you on the site's rank list ranked it #1, depending on the # of spots.

 

[KARM12]

It means you'll go to the program you rank 1 assuming no one else above you on the site's rank list ranked it #1, depending on the # of spots.

And if your #1 filled their spots with more prefered candidates (ones they ranked higher than you), you would end up at #2.

 

[confettiflyer]

And if your #1 filled their spots with more prefered candidates (ones they ranked higher than you), you would end up at #2.

for some reason (for me) match is easier to understand than it is to explain. i just have this image of stick figures and sites systematically swirling around in my head.

 

[KARM12]

for some reason (for me) match is easier to understand than it is to explain. i just have this image of stick figures and sites systematically swirling around in my head.

Yup! It is complicated to put in words...

Bottom line, rank in order of your preference...