step 3 as an MSIV?

[Bob Loblaw]

I have a light load before graduation. With all this free time on my hands, I am contemplating taking Step III. How common is this? Anyone else planning to do this? Pros and cons?

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[kalico]

Thanks for all of the responses. I looked on the FSMB site.

On the state requirements, for most states it says AOA or ACGME residency... it also mentions MD/PhD and DO/PhD. So it seems like DO's are eligible to take USMLE Step 3 for licensure.

Also, here are the USMLE Step 3 guidelines from the website:

"The USMLE program requires the following to be completed prior to submitting a Step 3 application:

Obtain an M.D. degree (or its equivalent) or a D.O. degree (or its equivalent).
Pass both USMLE Steps 1 and 2 (CK and CS).
If a graduate of a foreign medical school, obtain certification by the ECFMG or successfully complete a "Fifth Pathway" program.
Meet the requirements for taking Step 3 imposed by the individual licensing authority to which you are applying to sit Step 3."

Not trying to get complicated, but I have had several students and residents express the same question as my original post and it's all so unclear. I think the poster who suggested calling is on the right track.

 

[DireWolf]

Anyone know if this is true? I would probably rather take USMLE if I could.

Why? USMLE is 2 days, while COMLEX is 1.

 

[brentunc]

I actually attempted to do this this past year. I graduated May 15, 2005 from Case (Cleveland, OH); I was starting residency in July in Texas which has no residency training requirements for step III. I wanted to take the test in the 6 weeks between graduation and the start of residency, but it did not work out - here is the reason... It takes your medical schools at least 2-3 weeks to officially approve your graduation following your graduation date. Once they do, they tell the FSBME which takes another 2-3 weeks. Consequently, it takes > one month just to be able to apply. Case in point - I applied May 16th for Step III. My application was not fully approved until the very end of June. During this time I was calling my school and FSBME who both were saying that things were going as fast as possible but that it always takes over a month for new MDs to get verified. Once the application got approved, it took another week for mailing and then once I received it there were no back-to-back dates available for nearly a month. So, from my experience, what you are trying to do sounds great but it just does not work out that way.

 

[12R34Y]

I actually attempted to do this this past year. I graduated May 15, 2005 from Case (Cleveland, OH); I was starting residency in July in Texas which has no residency training requirements for step III. I wanted to take the test in the 6 weeks between graduation and the start of residency, but it did not work out - here is the reason... It takes your medical schools at least 2-3 weeks to officially approve your graduation following your graduation date. Once they do, they tell the FSBME which takes another 2-3 weeks. Consequently, it takes > one month just to be able to apply. Case in point - I applied May 16th for Step III. My application was not fully approved until the very end of June. During this time I was calling my school and FSBME who both were saying that things were going as fast as possible but that it always takes over a month for new MDs to get verified. Once the application got approved, it took another week for mailing and then once I received it there were no back-to-back dates available for nearly a month. So, from my experience, what you are trying to do sounds great but it just does not work out that way.

Sorry to hear about your personal experience.

Having further research this carefully I have found the following:

Calling the FSMB directly multiple people state 5 days for processing/approving your application if you do it online.

My school simply has to send a letter that I've graduated ( my dean will do this the monday after I graduate).

FSMB states total time generally not longer than 10 days.

take test in end of may/or june.

still going for it. as are others in my class now.

Fortunately, my first month is an orientation month in the ER where my top 3 generally only do 7-10 shifts that first month. So if I have to take it in july then i'll take it then.

later

 

[CANES2006]

It takes your medical schools at least 2-3 weeks to officially approve your graduation following your graduation date. Once they do, they tell the FSBME which takes another 2-3 weeks. Consequently, it takes > one month just to be able to apply.

Why would it take my school 2-3 weeks to officially approve my graduation when they are giving me my diploma on graduation day (May 13, 2006)? What more verification do they need? They already verified/approved my graduation since they gave me my M.D. through my diploma. Right?

 

[12R34Y]

Why would it take my school 2-3 weeks to officially approve my graduation when they are giving me my diploma on graduation day (May 13, 2006)? What more verification do they need? They already verified/approved my graduation since they gave me my M.D. through my diploma. Right?

I agree.

My dean will just send a letter in stating that I have successfully passed medical school and got my MD.

i'm just going to definately do the online application though for speed.

even if it took 2-3 weeks that still gives me a month to schedule/take the test.

later

 

[DeLaughterDO]

Does anyone know if this applies to COMLEX as well? Also, someone somewhere mentioned that DO's may take either USMLE or COMLEX Step 3 for licensure. Anyone know if this is true? I would probably rather take USMLE if I could.

edit: I may have answered the second question, since the USMLE site says that you must have passed USMLE 1 and 2 to sit for 3 (in other words, you cant take COMLEX 1 and 2 and then USMLE 3...anyone know?)

I found this on www.nbome.org. It appears you must be currently enrolled in a program to take COMLEX step 3 - there's a form on the site your PD has to complete in order to be able to register for the exam...

----------------------------------------------------
COMLEX-USA Level 3
A candidate is eligible to take the COMLEX-USA Level 3 examination upon compliance with the following requirements:

1. Must have passed the COMLEX-USA Level 1, COMLEX-USA Level 2-CE and Level 2-PE examinations within the NBOME requirements.
2. Must have graduated from a medical school accredited by the AOA COCA with an earned D.O. degree.
3. Must be currently participating in and in good standing with an AOA Post-Graduate Education and Training Review Committee (PTRC) approved internship, or ACGME-approved PGY1, or must have successfully completed such an internship or program. Must submit verification from the Director of Medical Education or Program Director that the candidate is in good standing with an AOA Post-Graduate Education and Training Review Committee (PTRC) approved internship or ACGME-approved PGY1. Candidates who have completed an internship or program must submit a notarized copy of the internship certificate or PGY1 certificate in lieu of the verification of good standing.

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l8r,

jd

 

[brentunc]

Take my comments as you may. I know that it sounds somewhat ludicrous that it would take this long, but it did. I completed the application on line the day after graduation. I immediately called FSBME who said talk to my school for potentially faster processing. I asked my school who said that they sent the graduation info off to the USMLE people within one week - the USMLE people are the 1st ones to verify our graduation. From there it took them weeks to get it to the FSBME. Once received by the FSBME it took 1-2 weeks to get the hard copy into my hands. Good luck to all of you in getting it to work - however, do not be surprised if you cannot take it as quickly as you would like. If you are unable to take it before the start of residency due to internal delays, make sure that you have time within the 1st six months of residency to take it (once you get the permit, you have 3 months to take it followed by a second 3 months if you pay an additional $50).

 

[12R34Y]

Take my comments as you may. I know that it sounds somewhat ludicrous that it would take this long, but it did. I completed the application on line the day after graduation. I immediately called FSBME who said talk to my school for potentially faster processing. I asked my school who said that they sent the graduation info off to the USMLE people within one week - the USMLE people are the 1st ones to verify our graduation. From there it took them weeks to get it to the FSBME. Once received by the FSBME it took 1-2 weeks to get the hard copy into my hands. Good luck to all of you in getting it to work - however, do not be surprised if you cannot take it as quickly as you would like. If you are unable to take it before the start of residency due to internal delays, make sure that you have time within the 1st six months of residency to take it (once you get the permit, you have 3 months to take it followed by a second 3 months if you pay an additional $50).

This is depressing.

what do you think CANE? still wanna do it? i'm nervous now. don't want to waste my free time casually looking through some review texts over my time off if I can't do it.

Also don't want to get pigeon holed into being forced doing it during my intern year during my eligibility period.

what do you think? should we still try?

later

 

[CANES2006]

This is depressing.

what do you think CANE? still wanna do it? i'm nervous now. don't want to waste my free time casually looking through some review texts over my time off if I can't do it.

Also don't want to get pigeon holed into being forced doing it during my intern year during my eligibility period.

what do you think? should we still try?

later

Yeah, that's pretty depressing, but I think I don't have much of a choice. I have a pretty good idea where I'm heading for OB/GYN residency and it's going to be intense. Very similar to surgery hours. It is to my benefit to take it as soon as possible because I am already forgetting everything non-OB/GYN. Sad but true. I'm going to take it as soon as I can. Even if I have to take it in the middle of July.

 

[Ice-1]

And now for an opposite viewpoint: At a place I interviewed (university program) the residents were telling me that they recommended not to take Step 3 until in the thrid year of residency and that many of them were doing just that. It's the first time I ever heard of such a thing, I thought that you would have to take/pass it by then end of intership year at the latest. Anyone else heard differently?

 

[12R34Y]

talked extensively to fsmb today.

Once you apply online. the moment they receive your application they send your medical school's registrar an email asking for verification that you did indeed graduate from medical school. that's it.

she said that it all depends on your individual medical shool. she said it USUALLY takes about 1 month for school's to finish up all the bookeeping and close the file on a student (ie no holds, no outstanding fees, all grades in etc..)

the registrar simply emails them back saying "yes, he's done."

then it will take 2 weeks for the fsmb to process your application from the time that your school sends them verification.

then 5 days to mail permit and then try and find availability at a prometric.

so, bottom line, if your school's registrar has the ability to shoot an email back very shortly then no problems.

if your school is a slacker then could be a problem.

later

 

[CANES2006]

talked extensively to fsmb today.

Once you apply online. the moment they receive your application they send your medical school's registrar an email asking for verification that you did indeed graduate from medical school. that's it.

she said that it all depends on your individual medical shool. she said it USUALLY takes about 1 month for school's to finish up all the bookeeping and close the file on a student (ie no holds, no outstanding fees, all grades in etc..)

the registrar simply emails them back saying "yes, he's done."

then it will take 2 weeks for the fsmb to process your application from the time that your school sends them verification.

then 5 days to mail permit and then try and find availability at a prometric.

so, bottom line, if your school's registrar has the ability to shoot an email back very shortly then no problems.

if your school is a slacker then could be a problem.

later

Thanks for doing this.

 

[Stinger86]

talked extensively to fsmb today.

Once you apply online. the moment they receive your application they send your medical school's registrar an email asking for verification that you did indeed graduate from medical school. that's it.

she said that it all depends on your individual medical shool. she said it USUALLY takes about 1 month for school's to finish up all the bookeeping and close the file on a student (ie no holds, no outstanding fees, all grades in etc..)

the registrar simply emails them back saying "yes, he's done."

then it will take 2 weeks for the fsmb to process your application from the time that your school sends them verification.

then 5 days to mail permit and then try and find availability at a prometric.

so, bottom line, if your school's registrar has the ability to shoot an email back very shortly then no problems.

if your school is a slacker then could be a problem.

later

But what about the Certification of Identity form? According to the FSMB site, once you submit the online form (plus a few days processing), your account is put on hold until they receive the notarized Certification of Identity form in the mail. After which, the ball starts moving on your whole application, and eventually you'll get a permit mailed.

I talked with my dean about it, and he said that he had no clue, because in his experience the step3 application is between the applicant, the fsmb, and the state medical board, and the school never deals with the application process. Weird?

So from your phone conversation, you found out that all you have to do is fill out the online form, send money, and then wait? Did the people on the phone not mention the notarized certification form?

 

[Stinger86]

Whoops, I may be missing something.

The certification form is the same one we had to turn in for the Step 1, CK, and CS exams, right? And thanks to the new regulation last year, Certification of Identity forms last for 5 years instead of just one?

Excuse my rambling, I'm just trying to figure out this whole crap party myself.

 

[brentunc]

12R34Y - I agree with most of what you said. From my experience with the FSBME, there is one more person who they are not telling you about - the USMLE people. From what I was told (and I will admit that I may have been mislead), the verification goes from your school in 1-2 weeks to the USMLE in 1-2 weeks and then on to FSBME. The addition of one more group drags out the process. So, if what 12R34Y said was correct, then you can expect at least a month to get the pass. If what happened to me is correct, you can expect more like 6 weeks. Like I said before, you should make sure that you are willing to take it during your first 6 months of residency just in case you can't take it in time.

Also, one more reason for delay that has not been mentioned much is the delay one you receive the permit. For me, the first appointment that was available was > 3 weeks away. There are likely two reasons for so few appointments; first off is the fact that you need back-to-back testing days; secondarily is the fact that most people usually wait until the end of their intern year to take it.

 

[12R34Y]

12R34Y - I agree with most of what you said. From my experience with the FSBME, there is one more person who they are not telling you about - the USMLE people. From what I was told (and I will admit that I may have been mislead), the verification goes from your school in 1-2 weeks to the USMLE in 1-2 weeks and then on to FSBME. The addition of one more group drags out the process. So, if what 12R34Y said was correct, then you can expect at least a month to get the pass. If what happened to me is correct, you can expect more like 6 weeks. Like I said before, you should make sure that you are willing to take it during your first 6 months of residency just in case you can't take it in time.

Also, one more reason for delay that has not been mentioned much is the delay one you receive the permit. For me, the first appointment that was available was > 3 weeks away. There are likely two reasons for so few appointments; first off is the fact that you need back-to-back testing days; secondarily is the fact that most people usually wait until the end of their intern year to take it.

OKAY!

Now I talked to my school's registrar after talking to the FSMB.

The registrar was VERY familiar with this process of VERIFYING for the FSMB that you indeed graduated.

She said that the FSMB MAILS (not emails like FSMB says) a packet with four things. A certified transcript, a certified copy of diploma, something else and a Dean's letter (yes the MSPE letter that we all had sent to our residencies).

However this dean's letter is a continuation of the one we get in our third year. It included all of your 4th year grades/comments and your overall GPA etc...and states that you met all the requirements to get your MD.

Get this!! My registrar says that they don't even have the MSPE"s done for the CLASS OF 2005 yet!!!!!!

She said that immediately after commencement that the regristrar is super busy trying to certify degrees (whatever that means) and posting transcripts etc...

Bottom line she said at the soonest it would be like 6 weeks just for that junk.

I'm officially out. Not going to mess with it. There are just too many unknowns and people saying huge ranges like 1-6 weeks or 2-4 weeks. I just don't have reassurance that i need.

Good luck to the rest of you if you try.

later