Statement of Need, J1-B, and PGY-5

[treva]

Hello hello,

I'm a 2nd year Canadian studying at Flinders, and, as I'm sure some of you can tell by my previous thread, I'm considering training in Canada or the US. Ideally I want to end up in Canada, and I would use my US training as a way to either a) land the specialty I am interested in, but was unable to match into in Canada or b) avoid a return of service contract.

I understand that to train in the US I'll need a Statement of Need from my provincial health minister, and that if I'm on a J1-B visa the US will kick me out after my residency has finished. I've also read that, in order for my US training to be recognized in Canada, I'll need to complete my PGY-5 year in a Canadian program.

Ok, so what I'm curious about is how likely is it that I'll get that PGY-5 spot after the US kicks me out? I've heard that typically PGY-5 spots are all filled, unless someone drops out of a program, which usually doesn't happen. I've also heard that the Statement of Need from the provincial health minister means that you'll get a PGY-5 spot after the US kicks you out. Does anyone know which is correct? Has anyone actually trained in the US on a J1-B and successfully returned to Canada?

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[JPR22]

You should have considered these things before you went to australia. The PGY-5 thing doesnt apply to every specialty. For Internal medicine in canada most pgy2s apply for a fellowship which is basically pgy3-5. The issue is that in the US IM is a stand alone 3 year residency. To write the royal college exam, 5 years of training are required. Some of these spots are more competitive than others. Any medicine residents can correct me if Im wrong. Ive seen a few people who have come back on a j1, but it usually took greater than 6 months.

 

[treva]

You should have considered these things before you went to australia. The PGY-5 thing doesnt apply to every specialty. For Internal medicine in canada most pgy2s apply for a fellowship which is basically pgy3-5. The issue is that in the US IM is a stand alone 3 year residency. To write the royal college exam, 5 years of training are required. Some of these spots are more competitive than others. Any medicine residents can correct me if Im wrong. Ive seen a few people who have come back on a j1, but it usually took greater than 6 months.

Thanks for the reply. Would the situation be similar for a non-IM speciality? For example, what if I did something like surg?

 

[JPR22]

I think surgery would be ok, provided you passed the royal college exams. Its very difficult for IMGs to land surgery in the US. Family medicine is more transferable, and much easier to obtain.

 

[gerickson03m]

I have just completed general training in the US on a J1. "in order for my US training to be recognized in Canada, I'll need to complete my PGY-5 year in a Canadian program." this is wrong, they completely recognized my training and i am writing the boards next week in Vancouver and oralz in June. The difference is that you now need to complete LMCC 1 + 2 tests by PGY 3. these are no joke, the LMCC part 1 test was the hardest test i have ever taken so get this overwith now!! I have passed the US boards and soon to do the same in canada so it can be done.

 

[tussy]

I've never heard of the PGY5 thing either. I do know that for general internal medicine you have to do a 4th year (US is a 3 year program, canada requires 4 years). Same goes for paediatrics as well. For Surgery I think most programs would be accepted but you should check with the royal college to be sure.

If you trained in the US you'd also have to pass the Royal College exams to practice in Canada. These are definitely no joke. I did the gen surg Royal college exam in addition to the US Board of surgery exam and the Royal College exam is much much more difficult and would be hard to pass based on american training alone (hard enough to pass with canadian training).

 

[NewCanadian]

Hello hello,

I'm a 2nd year Canadian studying at Flinders, and, as I'm sure some of you can tell by my previous thread, I'm considering training in Canada or the US. Ideally I want to end up in Canada, and I would use my US training as a way to either a) land the specialty I am interested in, but was unable to match into in Canada or b) avoid a return of service contract.

I understand that to train in the US I'll need a Statement of Need from my provincial health minister, and that if I'm on a J1-B visa the US will kick me out after my residency has finished. I've also read that, in order for my US training to be recognized in Canada, I'll need to complete my PGY-5 year in a Canadian program.

Ok, so what I'm curious about is how likely is it that I'll get that PGY-5 spot after the US kicks me out? I've heard that typically PGY-5 spots are all filled, unless someone drops out of a program, which usually doesn't happen. I've also heard that the Statement of Need from the provincial health minister means that you'll get a PGY-5 spot after the US kicks you out. Does anyone know which is correct? Has anyone actually trained in the US on a J1-B and successfully returned to Canada?

Depends on the specialty.
Anesthesia in US : internship + 3 years = 4. Canada requires 5.
Similarly, neurology.
For internal medicine, you have to find a PGY4 or do a subspecialty of IM. Same for peds.


How to get a PGY5? or PGY4? i.e., how to make up the difference in length of training in years ?

One Answer: Ontario Repatriation Program. Anyone who needs to 'top up' their training to meet the RCPSC requirements (and take the exam), can apply. The Health Canada website (Statement of Need section) has a link to the repatriation program, so read up. There are some timing issues, you have to work with the RCPSC to get a Ruling Letter, and not everyone is accepted. It's not a case of an open or abandoned position; you have to convince the PD of the ontario medical school to take you. The funding comes from the Ontario Ministry of Health. Having received a Statement of Need does not qualify you to get that repatriation position. It's up to you to get it. If you want more info, PM me.

Better Answer: You do not have to do the 'top up' training in Canada. Why not in the US? Say it's anesthesiology. Here's a plan:
Internship
Anes for 3 years
One year ACGME accredited fellowship in a related program, such as critical care medicine, pain medicine.
There you go, five years.
If you want more info, PM me.

 

[NewCanadian]

I have just completed general training in the US on a J1. "in order for my US training to be recognized in Canada, I'll need to complete my PGY-5 year in a Canadian program." this is wrong, they completely recognized my training and i am writing the boards next week in Vancouver and oralz in June. The difference is that you now need to complete LMCC 1 + 2 tests by PGY 3. these are no joke, the LMCC part 1 test was the hardest test i have ever taken so get this overwith now!! I have passed the US boards and soon to do the same in canada so it can be done.

Note to OP: see, yes, there are specialists returning to Canada successfully.