Stanford (waitlist) vs. UTHSCSA Long SOM

[nickbet0011]

Unexpectedly got off Stanford's waitlist two days ago and I still cannot sleep. I am in shock.

Some background:
My wife and I (no kids) had started speaking with realtors and planning a trip to San Antonio to buy a condo near the med center.

Even though I am OOS (and non-traditional), I was offered in state tuition (less than 20k per year tuition and fees) at UTHSCSA with a scholarship application pending. The cost of living is very reasonable there and I really liked the med school and area for starting a family.

Stanford, on the other hand, represents a whole different world and experience. World class research opportunities and a highly prestigious institution that would certainly increase my competitiveness for residency matches. However, with the insane cost of living in Palo Alto (of course I would need my own place with my wife) and 60k per year tuition, one year at Stanford would almost be more than the entire cost of med school at San Antonio. We would also live in a shoe box, starting a family would prove difficult, and my wife has expressed that she would be much happier at San Antonio as a result.

Stanford has always been a dream school for me, but I had a negative experience during my interview day that caused it to fall on my list.

I do not know what specialty I would like to pursue, but have considered Pulmonology, Emergency Medicine, Radiology, and have an open mind.

While Stanford may offer more flexibility, the amount of debt I would accrue would definitely push me to feel constrained to pursue something more competitive. So, in a way, Stanford provides more flexibility but more pressure.

The idea of living in Texas or NorCal both sound appealing, so I have no preference for location.

My wife was very keen on buying a small place and setting roots in Texas, and to be honest, I was warming up to the idea.

This Stanford waitlist acceptance caught us both offguard and really has blown my mind. I know I am blessed to be given this opportunity and am blessed to be able to face this decision.

It feels like the obvious decision should be Stanford in terms of academics and opportunities, but I am having trouble leaving a comfortable arrangement in Texas and I do not think it is so simple as: "it's Stanford, of course you should go there."

I could guarantee that my wife and I would be more comfortable in San Antonio (and probably more happy with a better quality of life at least for the next 4-8 years), but could I really pass up the opportunity that is Stanford?

Neither my wife or I have any connections to Texas or Cali.

Would I be crazy to choose UTHSCSA over Stanford? Should I go with the prestige and opportunity at Stanford? I am truly torn and would appreciate your comments, discussion, and votes on the matter.

Sorry for the scatterbrained and disorganized formatting of this post - it is how my brain has been functioning since I received the surprising news from Stanford. Thank you for the help, I look forward to bouncing ideas off you all.

Update 5/21/19:
From the Stanford financial aid package I was offered a 45,000 University Grant and the remaining cost of attendance covered in loans (98,000 total - 45,000 grant = 53,000)

I was honestly blown away to receive such a large grant... as I have never received any sort of aid ever from any other program both graduate and undergraduate.

This places the cost of attendance (after aid) of Stanford MUCH closer to UTHSCSA. However, the raise in salary my spouse would get from working in Palo Alto would not compensate for the increased cost of living NorCal/Stanford area... so there is a hidden discrepancy in there.

A few things I will ask the financial aid office tomorrow: Is the grant guaranteed for all 4 years? This 2019-2020 year is only 3 quarters, how much will the cost of tuition/attendance rise for the next 3 years (all of which I believe are 4 quarters)? Are the grants considered taxable income (which would lower their value compared to the scholarships I received from UTHSCSA)? Any insights from you guys would also be helpful here! =)

Honestly, my wife and I were leaning San Antonio before this, but this unexpected financial aid package from Stanford could give us some more flexibility in taking out extra loans to stay in a nicer, cozier place in the Palo Alto area. I remain conflicted and I know this decision will come down to the wire. However, I will definitely update you all of my final decision.

I just wanted to take a second and thank you all for your kind and thoughtful comments. I really appreciate your advice and counsel as it has certainly helped me reflect on what is important and will ultimately help me make a more informed decision.

Final Update 05/24/19:
Last minute my wife and I decided to go with Stanford. While I believe that UTHSCSA would have also been an excellent choice, and perhaps much more comfortable in the short term, we both believe that Stanford will provide us with many opportunities and options in the future. While I do not know exactly what I want to pursue as a specialty, having the door open for anything, even the ultra competitive ones helps motivate me. Also, the idea of going in medical education and academia down the road does sound like something that I would really enjoy.

When the cost of attendance gap between the two was significantly reduced due to an unexpectedly generous aid package, I was a able to compromise with my wife and agree to take out additional loans in order to afford to live off campus at Stanford in an apartment that looked less like a shoe box and more similar to what we have in Arizona.

I ultimately realized that Stanford is and has always been my dream school. I think I would have had big regrets down the line if I missed out on this once in a lifetime opportunity. And while my wife definitely got the short end of the stick, it's my job now to prove to her that coming to Stanford will make our futures and our future children's futures better and that we can still start a family and find happiness even though finances will be constrained than they have ever been for us. I appreciate her willingness to support me in this decision. Even at the end, I assured her that I was ready to choose UTHSCSA to make her happy because that matters more to me than anything else. And before getting further into cheeseland, she was the one who ultimately have me the final push to make the decision for Stanford. I have a lot a respect for her.

Anyhow, I guess I went against the popular vote, did an about face (I was definitely leaning San Antonio hard at first), and really did some soul searching these last few days. Thank you everybody for your comments and discussion. I cannot believe how thoughtful and honest you have all been. I never thought I would get so many hits on this post. This community is awesome and has really helped me in my wayward journey as a premed. Thanks again.

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[Quantal Reasoning]

Texas. This is the rare time I would advocate for not going to Stanford. You expressed multiple times that you would be happiest in San Antonio, and that your wife would be unhappy at Stanford. You won't have trouble matching into one of your desired specialties from San Antonio.

 

[tardigrada]

I think the combination of happiness + finances in this case point clearly to Texas. Your medical career will be what you make of it – your success depends much more on you than on the prestige of your institution. Why pay three times as much to be in a place where you'll be uncomfortable and under pressure (at best) or unhappy, at worst?

If you read a lot of these "Help Me Decide" threads, pre-meds are usually the ones advocating for the more "prestigious" schools, while the residents and MDs almost ALWAYS recommend going with the better financial option and support network/happiness. Your personal well-being (and that of your wife, since she is your first line support system) will be a huge factor in your success in med school, and it seems clear that you know you'll both be healthier and happier in Texas. That it's also the better option financially is icing on the cake. Done.

 

[jessicajonesharvard]

Go to Stanford. You can match anywhere from Stanford. The location is amazing as well.

 

[deleted958249]

Although not as prestigious as Stanford, San Antonio has a great program and you won’t be limited in opportunity in terms of career. Furthermore, San Antonio is great location-wise with tons to do, and is overall a cheaper city to live in. Sounds like as a family you’ll be happier there as well - I would choose UTHSCSA

 

[jessicajonesharvard]

OP, the difference in quality of education and opportunities here is huge. Don’t close this door- it will be easier to match anywhere coming out of Stanford, especially when you have kids in the future and are thinking about potential locations for residencies. Stanford’s name and reputation will follow you for the rest of your life. If it’s between two top 10s, then it may be unreasonable to pay more for one school over the other. But this is top 5 vs a mid-low tier.

 

[meronebib]

Do you want to stay in Texas for residency and beyond?

 

[Dream of the Endless]

Keeping your wife happy (Peace of mind is priceless, buddy. Believe me.) - Texas
Don't break the bank - Texas
You sound like you'll be happier here - Texas
Prestige if you're trying to match ultracompetitive - Stanford
Location for new family - Texas
Feeling about the school - Texas
5:1 Texas

This doesn't sound like a debate, but trying to excuse yourself for not choosing Stanford. It's okay, friend. Let someone who really wants to attend go there. You clearly do not. Just politely turn them down. You have our permission and blessings. Enjoy your life, congratulations. You're going to be a doctor!

 

[camnewton1]

To me, it seems like you’re pretty much set/happy going to UTHSCSA, then you got off the waitlist at Stanford which is awesome! A big question to ask is whether you see yourself as a “physician plus”, such as physician scientist or a physician heavily involved with innovation, policy, etc. I think if you are serious about any of those routes, then Stanford is the right choice. However, if you see yourself as primarily a clinician, then I don’t think it will make a huge difference in terms of final outcome. Considering that your personal life will be significantly more manageable at San Antonio, that might be the way to go even if it’s tough to turn down Stanford.

 

[nickbet0011]

Do you want to stay in Texas for residency and beyond?

I am not against the idea. My wife and I are bit of nomads. I'm from FL, went to school in PA, and currently work in AZ. Wife is from OH, went to school UT, and currently works in AZ. We do not feel attached to any place nor de we have aspirations to go back where we are from (not that we are opposed to it).

When I was young, the thought of living off of the water in California sounded like a dream. As I have gotten older, pragmatism has taken over idealism. A safe, spacious neighborhood in a diverse city with a good amount of things to do sounds nice now.

In short, my wife and I can be happy in a lot of places - Texas sounds look it could be one of them.

 

[jessicajonesharvard]

I am not against the idea. My wife and I are bit of nomads. I'm from FL, went to school in PA, and currently work in AZ. Wife is from OH, went to school UT, and currently works in AZ. We do not feel attached to any place nor de we have aspirations to go back where we are from (not that we are opposed to it).

When I was young, the thought of living off of the water in California sounded like a dream. As I have gotten older, pragmatism has taken over idealism. A safe, spacious neighborhood in a diverse city with a good amount of things to do sounds nice now.

In short, my wife and I can be happy in a lot of places - Texas sounds look it could be one of them.

Palo Alto is one of the safest neighborhoods in California.
Source: I grew up in CA.

 

[nickbet0011]

To me, it seems like you’re pretty much set/happy going to UTHSCSA, then you got off the waitlist at Stanford which is awesome! A big question to ask is whether you see yourself as a “physician plus”, such as physician scientist or a physician heavily involved with innovation, policy, etc. I think if you are serious about any of those routes, then Stanford is the right choice. However, if you see yourself as primarily a clinician, then I don’t think it will make a huge difference in terms of final outcome. Considering that your personal life will be significantly more manageable at San Antonio, that might be the way to go even if it’s tough to turn down Stanford.

It sure is tough to turn it down. It has been a dream of mine since high school. But I have lost that ambition to change the world or become involved heavily in research. I mostly just want to heal and interact with people (a clinician). I am not opposed to going into something ultra-competitive, but I am not sure what I want to pursue. I do have a decent idea that I at least want to specialize in something. Not sure if I would be fully satisfied with general primary care.

 

[965978]

It sure is tough to turn it down. It has been a dream of mine since high school. But I have lost that ambition to change the world or become involved heavily in research. I mostly just want to heal and interact with people (a clinician). I am not opposed to going into something ultra-competitive, but I am not sure what I want to pursue. I do have a decent idea that I at least want to specialize in something. Not sure if I would be fully satisfied with general primary care.

I think it’s a part of growing up. When we are young teenagers we are obsessed with sparkles and magic. We want to change the world and want to be the center of attention.

But as we grow up, our definition of happiness changes. And for a lot of people it becomes family and friends, and leading a peaceful life in this crazy world.

At the end, it’s your choice and your life.

 

[Bones&Bourbon]

OP,

I have to echo some of the sentiments from prior responses. Full disclosure: I'm a native Texan, will be attending medical school in Texas, and hope to train/practice in Texas. The city of San Antonio truly is a wonderful place: plenty to do, wonderful food, kind hearted people, and most of all, the cost of living is EXTRAORDINARILY cheap for a big city. On the Texas interview trail, one thing that always comes up in the discussion about Long SOM is not only the affordability of the school, but also the exceptionally low cost of living in San Antonio.

Some have mentioned that choosing Long over Stanford would be a disservice to yourself. I disagree entirely. Long does a terrific job of matching into ultra-competitive specialties, their match lists speak for themselves. Sure, you may not have the "Stanford" name on your CV, but that won't preclude you from pursuing any specialty.

I wish you all the best in your decision. Please keep us updated!

 

[JRSmith]

If you do end up choosing Long, I would at least make sure to leverage a Stanford acceptance to get more scholarship money.

 

[nickbet0011]

If you do end up choosing Long, I would at least make sure to leverage a Stanford acceptance to get more scholarship money.

How would I go about doing that? Just contacting admissions and letting them know my circumstances?

 

[JRSmith]

How would I go about doing that? Just contacting admissions and letting them know my circumstances?

Something along the lines of "I was recently offered an acceptance at Stanford Med and am currently in the process of deciding between Long and Stanford. I wanted to see if you had any additional scholarships that I may qualify for before making a final decision."

 

[DNC127]

Texas and its not close.

Med school will be miserable if you wife is miserable.

Take the L on stanford and take the W on happy wife happy life and your wallet.

Tough decision still I imagine though.

 

[rball]

Keep in mind OP this time of year there are many who are dying to be accepted off waitlist at Stanford (or bitter they didn't get in, etc), so your poll will be skewed.

If you just want to match into clinical medicine in Texas - if that is your primarily career goal and you don't see that changing, UT is a great option given your circumstances. Texas programs are pretty insular with regards to matching so you can match into any competitive specialty from UT no problem. It's a great school. They have a fairly strong ortho program for instance.

If you want to do anything nonclinical related (academia, business, entrepreneurship, policy, etc), or if you even want to leave that door open in case you change your mind, or if you want to match into a top program in your specialty or into a highly desirable city outside of Texas, then you should go to Stanford. Stanford will open doors for you that you would not think possible, and their "worst" matches will look like UT's best. You can look at some of the IM forums here, resident rosters for example, to see just how much name matters when it comes time to matching. And then that will carry with you for the rest of your life (fellowship, jobs etc). This is from knowing how the selection process in academia works, as well talking to private practice docs who are honest with me abt this. I wish it weren't the case, but nepotism is rampant in academia + medicine in general (particularly in desirable locations/cities), and who you know + pedigree together are among the most important factors for your entire career.

So it is really up to you and your priorities. Both are good choices, but for different reasons. Only you can decide what is best for you. Also make sure either way you don't have regrets - that is key.

 

[crimson-cat]

From everything you've written it sounds like Texas would make you happier. If time/finances are permitting, I'd recommend you and the wife visit Stanford before making your final decision though. Stanford is known for having a lot of opportunities for students to offset debt, and maybe you two will decide that living in Stanford housing for a few years surrounded by palm trees and a crazy amount of academic and economic activity is worth pivoting the San Antonio dream you have in your head. Maybe the opposite will happen, you'll realize you hate suburbian Palo Alto, and you'll comfortably double down on Long without ever wondering, "what if". Either way, the most important thing is to make sure it's a joint decision and no one resent anyone else for forcing them into something. Best of luck!

 

[2010houston]

Agree with all of the above. You can definitely subspecialize from UTHSCSA. And Texas residencies often take Texas students if you end up deciding you want to stay - and it’s a great physician / malpractice climate in terms of practicing medicine. As said above, Stanford will definitely give you a boost in other ways (research, high level academics) - but I don’t think you would be crazy to pick UTHSCSA if that’s the way you’re leaning!

 

[nickbet0011]

From everything you've written it sounds like Texas would make you happier. If time/finances are permitting, I'd recommend you and the wife visit Stanford before making your final decision though. Stanford is known for having a lot of opportunities for students to offset debt, and maybe you two will decide that living in Stanford housing for a few years surrounded by palm trees and a crazy amount of academic and economic activity is worth pivoting the San Antonio dream you have in your head. Maybe the opposite will happen, you'll realize you hate suburbian Palo Alto, and you'll comfortably double down on Long without ever wondering, "what if". Either way, the most important thing is to make sure it's a joint decision and no one resent anyone else for forcing them into something. Best of luck!

Unfortunately we will not have time to visit this week. I was only given 5 days to make a decision and we are both teachers in our last week of school. =/

 

[crimson-cat]

Unfortunately we will not have time to visit this week. I was only given 5 days to make a decision and we are both teachers in our last week of school. =/

Have you seen if the school would give you a few day extension to see it over the weekend? If you call admissions and explain that you're excited/honored by the opportunity, but would need to ensure your SO would be happy there, I bet they'd understand and give you a little more time.

 

[Dream of the Endless]

Keep in mind OP this time of year there are many who are dying to be accepted off waitlist at Stanford (or bitter they didn't get in, etc), so your poll will be skewed.

This is just such a negative way to look at things and a moot point. At any given time, schools receive far more applications than they give interviews and acceptances. If people are so "bitter" or hopeful for their seat than the results of these would typically skew towards the worse school. Which... (surprise surprise) they don't. Most SDNers pick the top school for better futures on these threads.

Even now it is evidenced as OP has clearly outlined, in multiple lines of text, he does not see himself at this school. (This is a CARS passage. What's the authors intent???) But the distribution is still 60:40 which should tell you all you need to know. I wish people would stop spreading this "worm eats worm" mentality.

But they're right, OP. If you see yourself journeying outside of clinical medicine or giving serious consideration to matching ultracompetitive, than choose Stanford. Though this next quote would seem to almost directly contradict that point, but I want you to make the best decision for you.

It sure is tough to turn it down. It has been a dream of mine since high school. But I have lost that ambition to change the world or become involved heavily in research. I mostly just want to heal and interact with people (a clinician). I am not opposed to going into something ultra-competitive, but I am not sure what I want to pursue

While I'm sure your wife would -come to understand- wanting a brighter future, be careful, fam. "Hell hath no fury as a woman scorned." (Using this definition of scorn: refuse to do something because one is too proud) It's not my place to speculate on her disposition, but as someone that is engaged... Give this some thought. My fiancee has made it very clear to me that she isn't going to live in certain areas where we are the most ethnic around. Safe to say, you won't catch me at a North Dakota interview.
Edit: I hope this comment didn't offend anyone. It's meant to be read as you should take your spouse's wishes into account.

I'm actually high key blown that people read the same message, but still opt for Stanford. Your life. When you make your final decision, I'd love to know so I can grab your se- Oh, Freudian slip! My bad. (Not in this cycle)

 

[DokterMom]

OP, the difference in quality of education and opportunities here is huge. Don’t close this door- it will be easier to match anywhere coming out of Stanford, especially when you have kids in the future and are thinking about potential locations for residencies. Stanford’s name and reputation will follow you for the rest of your life. If it’s between two top 10s, then it may be unreasonable to pay more for one school over the other. But this is top 5 vs a mid-low tier.

San Antonio is a very solid mid-tier, not 'low' in any sense of the word. And both their curriculum and match list are very strong. The OP would have no trouble matching into any specialty he wanted assuming he performs well in med school. That said, the most elite programs in any specialty would still prefer a Stanford grad. Choosing Long eliminates the very tippy-top options, but only those.

It sure is tough to turn it down. It has been a dream of mine since high school. But I have lost that ambition to change the world or become involved heavily in research. I mostly just want to heal and interact with people (a clinician). I am not opposed to going into something ultra-competitive, but I am not sure what I want to pursue. I do have a decent idea that I at least want to specialize in something. Not sure if I would be fully satisfied with general primary care.

It basically seems to boil down to comfort (financial and emotional) versus prestige and enhanced future career prospects, and only you and your wife can make that call.

 

[rball]

This is just such a negative way to look at things and a moot point. At any given time, schools receive far more applications than they give interviews and acceptances. If people are so "bitter" or hopeful for their seat than the results of these would typically skew towards the worse school. Which... (surprise surprise) they don't. Most SDNers pick the top school for better futures on these threads.

Even now it is evidenced as OP has clearly outlined, in multiple lines of text, he does not see himself at this school. (This is a CARS passage. What's the authors intent???) But the distribution is still 60:40 which should tell you all you need to know. I wish people would stop spreading this "worm eats worm" mentality.

But they're right, OP. If you see yourself journeying outside of clinical medicine or giving serious consideration to matching ultracompetitive, than choose Stanford. Though this next quote would seem to almost directly contradict that point, but I want you to make the best decision for you.



While I'm sure your wife would -come to understand- wanting a brighter future, be careful, fam. "Hell hath no fury as a woman scorned." (Using this definition of scorn: refuse to do something because one is too proud) It's not my place to speculate on her disposition, but as someone that is engaged... Give this some thought. My fiancee has made it very clear to me that she isn't going to live in certain areas where we are the most ethnic around. Safe to say, you won't catch me at a North Dakota interview.
Edit: I hope this comment didn't offend anyone. It's meant to be read as you should take your spouse's wishes into account.

I'm actually high key blown that people read the same message, but still opt for Stanford. Your life. When you make your final decision, I'd love to know so I can grab your se- Oh, Freudian slip! My bad. (Not in this cycle)

While this isnt usual among decent people in the real world, it is here on sdn pre-allo. Ive seen it play out (esp last year there were a lot of burner accounts bashing yale for example for no reason at all, then one of those same accounts got into yale off waitlist). You have a lot of ppl who engage in wishful thinking, dont know what its like to be in that position or are jealous they arent in that postion, and yes ppl who are on waitlists.

Its really easy for someone who doesnt have these options and wont feel the magnitude of turning down stanford to tell somebody on the internet to turn down stanford. In reality this type of decision will rarely happen. I think OP is one of those rare few cases where UT is just as good an option, but in general preallo here has way too much of a anti-prestige bias that doesnt hold any weight in real world. And a pro-usnews bias that is equally as toxic.

 

[TheOtherAlien]

Hey OP—my assumption is that you've already explored financial aid options at Stanford, but in case you haven't: do you know that you'd actually have to pay full tuition? They're usually pretty generous when it comes to aid, and there are lots of other ways that people reduce their tuition while they're there. Either way, I'm sure you'll be happy, and good luck with your choice!

 

[nickbet0011]

Hey OP—my assumption is that you've already explored financial aid options at Stanford, but in case you haven't: do you know that you'd actually have to pay full tuition? They're usually pretty generous when it comes to aid, and there are lots of other ways that people reduce their tuition while they're there. Either way, I'm sure you'll be happy, and good luck with your choice!

Thanks for the comment, I will actually receive my package from financial aid in a few hours. Will post an update then. However, I did not receive any grants or need based scholarships from any of the other schools I was accepted at... so Im not holding my breathe.

 

[wagonwheel23]

M3 here. I throw my vote in for Texas. A happy home is so important in medical school and beyond, and it sounds like San Antonio is the place to be for that. Yes, Stanford is a powerhouse that puts you in line for the most prestigious of residency programs, but prestige does not equal happiness. However, if you are really excited about Stanford, get the financial aid package and go from there. You and your wife may need to take a trip out there to envision a life there. Good luck with this difficult decision!

 

[nickbet0011]

M3 here. I throw my vote in for Texas. A happy home is so important in medical school and beyond, and it sounds like San Antonio is the place to be for that. Yes, Stanford is a powerhouse that puts you in line for the most prestigious of residency programs, but prestige does not equal happiness. However, if you are really excited about Stanford, get the financial aid package and go from there. You and your wife may need to take a trip out there to envision a life there. Good luck with this difficult decision!

Just updated my post concerning the financial aid package. Unfortunately, I have been asked to make my decision by the end of the week. My wife and I are both teachers in our last weeks of school and cannot miss these finals days as we leave our jobs and tie up some loose ends. Thank you for the comment!

 

[meronebib]

Just updated my post concerning the financial aid package. Unfortunately, I have been asked to make my decision by the end of the week. My wife and I are both teachers in our last weeks of school and cannot miss these finals days as we leave our jobs and tie up some loose ends. Thank you for the comment!

Go to Stanford. 4 years isn’t your entire life. Your medical degree is. And now the cost is a lot more comparable.

 

[boredsms4]

Hi nickbet011

A friend linked me your post since your situation was similar to mine many years ago. I'm graduating from Stanford in a few weeks and have some time to kill so wanted to reply. I cannot help with the decision but can give some deets on my experience here. My info: Not from CA, came to Stanford after working for a while. Matched to my #1 earlier this year and now heading back to the east coast. Not married but in a very serious relationship all 4 yrs and still together.

a. Stanford's tuition is what it is. There are ways to make it lower if u play your cards right. Medscholars is like 70k $$$ if you use all but it will be hard to without a research year. TAing will get u anywhere from 10k to 50k. Living costs are not bad as the school subsidizes housing and there are couples housing options.

b. It will still never be as cheap as texas in-state.

c. Or maybe it will? Parental info is NOT considered in financial aid if you are 30+ OR married. B.c. of this many non-trads end up getting 50%+ tuition scholarships for a large part of their time here due to the blanket need-based policy and your expected contribution dropping to zero while in school. If your salary right now is not very high this might even be true from the start. Find out ASAP if either of these situations apply to you.

d. Having an actual house to live is 1000% a better living arrangement that your wife will be more happy with. For couples housing your choices are 1 ba 1 br apartments that are nice but expensive (2k/mo) or studios which are cheap (1.4-1.5k/mo i think??) but will be hella cramped. Neither are better than living in your own house in San Antonio. Ur living situation at Stanford will feel very transitionary.

e. Trying to make a serious relationship/marriage work in medschool is really hard. It is prolly easier to make it work at Stanford than any other school except maaaaaaaaybe Yale. There is no AOA. There is no internal ranking or grades. There is no competition with your classmates. It is pass now pass later aka u have to try to fail and will get personalized help if u struggle. You can block out blocks at ur discretion during MS3 which reduces the strain clerkships place on relationships+++. All the other perks u already know like getting to pick who evaluates u during clerkships, taking Step 1 whenever u want and the rest of the sales pitch. Together this creates one of the best 'work/life' balances u can get for medschool. It let me do things like make a firm commitment to never study after 6-7pm and always have that time to spend with my SO for all of MS1 MS2 MS4. I was not really stressed at any point during medical school b.c. of the environment and it let me invest time into my relationship.

f. Palo alto is Palo alto. You might love it. You might hate it. You might be indifferent to it. It can take time to get used to if you're coming from a big city. I was mostly indifferent. Job prospects for your SO might be more difficult. It's also much more fun to root for the Spurs than the Warriors.

g. The class size is very small and super tight in preclin years. This means your SO can be a direct part of your medschool social circles if she chooses to be rather than on the periphery and it always feeling like ur living 2 lives. Downside is that b.c. everyone knows everyone ppl can def get all up in your business.

h. FOMO is a real thing here. Making the decision to be done in 4 yrs was harder for me than deciding where I wanted to go for medschool. You see your friends spending "just 12 more months" and getting a Stanford MBA or "just 36 more months" and switching to MD/PhD or getting PAID by the school to do projects or community work or research for a year and just enjoying life and a billion other things and it strikes real hard. About 65% of your class will choose to spend more than 4 yrs in medschool b.c. of this. This does not affect matching. I had no issues matching to my 1st choice which was a competitive program in a v competitive specialty. Same deal with everyone I know who took 4 yrs. You will still match where you want. But statistically there is a good chance u will end up taking longer based on what u end up interested in. This is worth keeping in mind if your SO is against moving to Stanford and will be just counting off days until you're done.

i. Hard truth is that institutional strength matters. Having just gone thru the match it is actually horrifying how much it matters. It is 'possible' to match to w.e. specialty u want wherever u go obviously but anyone who says it isn't much much much much much easier at a 'top ranked' school is lying to your face. Even if you don't care about 'top' programs it buys you a lot of latitude in dictating WHERE u finish your training geographically, which is many cases ends up being also where you settle down.

Hopefully this word vomit has been at least interesting to read. Good luck.....

 

[nickbet0011]

Hi nickbet011

A friend linked me your post since your situation was similar to mine many years ago. I'm graduating from Stanford in a few weeks and have some time to kill so wanted to reply. I cannot help with the decision but can give some deets on my experience here. My info: Not from CA, came to Stanford after working for a while. Matched to my #1 earlier this year and now heading back to the east coast. Not married but in a very serious relationship all 4 yrs and still together.

a. Stanford's tuition is what it is. There are ways to make it lower if u play your cards right. Medscholars is like 70k $$$ if you use all but it will be hard to without a research year. TAing will get u anywhere from 10k to 50k. Living costs are not bad as the school subsidizes housing and there are couples housing options.

b. It will still never be as cheap as texas in-state.

c. Or maybe it will? Parental info is NOT considered in financial aid if you are 30+ OR married. B.c. of this many non-trads end up getting 50%+ tuition scholarships for a large part of their time here due to the blanket need-based policy and your expected contribution dropping to zero while in school. If your salary right now is not very high this might even be true from the start. Find out ASAP if either of these situations apply to you.

d. Having an actual house to live is 1000% a better living arrangement that your wife will be more happy with. For couples housing your choices are 1 ba 1 br apartments that are nice but expensive (2k/mo) or studios which are cheap (1.4-1.5k/mo i think??) but will be hella cramped. Neither are better than living in your own house in San Antonio. Ur living situation at Stanford will feel very transitionary.

e. Trying to make a serious relationship/marriage work in medschool is really hard. It is prolly easier to make it work at Stanford than any other school except maaaaaaaaybe Yale. There is no AOA. There is no internal ranking or grades. There is no competition with your classmates. It is pass now pass later aka u have to try to fail and will get personalized help if u struggle. You can block out blocks at ur discretion during MS3 which reduces the strain clerkships place on relationships+++. All the other perks u already know like getting to pick who evaluates u during clerkships, taking Step 1 whenever u want and the rest of the sales pitch. Together this creates one of the best 'work/life' balances u can get for medschool. It let me do things like make a firm commitment to never study after 6-7pm and always have that time to spend with my SO for all of MS1 MS2 MS4. I was not really stressed at any point during medical school b.c. of the environment and it let me invest time into my relationship.

f. Palo alto is Palo alto. You might love it. You might hate it. You might be indifferent to it. It can take time to get used to if you're coming from a big city. I was mostly indifferent. Job prospects for your SO might be more difficult. It's also much more fun to root for the Spurs than the Warriors.

g. The class size is very small and super tight in preclin years. This means your SO can be a direct part of your medschool social circles if she chooses to be rather than on the periphery and it always feeling like ur living 2 lives. Downside is that b.c. everyone knows everyone ppl can def get all up in your business.

h. FOMO is a real thing here. Making the decision to be done in 4 yrs was harder for me than deciding where I wanted to go for medschool. You see your friends spending "just 12 more months" and getting a Stanford MBA or "just 36 more months" and switching to MD/PhD or getting PAID by the school to do projects or community work or research for a year and just enjoying life and a billion other things and it strikes real hard. About 65% of your class will choose to spend more than 4 yrs in medschool b.c. of this. This does not affect matching. I had no issues matching to my 1st choice which was a competitive program in a v competitive specialty. Same deal with everyone I know who took 4 yrs. You will still match where you want. But statistically there is a good chance u will end up taking longer based on what u end up interested in. This is worth keeping in mind if your SO is against moving to Stanford and will be just counting off days until you're done.

i. Hard truth is that institutional strength matters. Having just gone thru the match it is actually horrifying how much it matters. It is 'possible' to match to w.e. specialty u want wherever u go obviously but anyone who says it isn't much much much much much easier at a 'top ranked' school is lying to your face. Even if you don't care about 'top' programs it buys you a lot of latitude in dictating WHERE u finish your training geographically, which is many cases ends up being also where you settle down.

Hopefully this word vomit has been at least interesting to read. Good luck.....

Thank you very much for your comment. Your input and experience is really appreciated by my wife and me.

However, one thing that I am not sure about from what you said that I need to double check with finaid. My wife and I are both under 30 (26). Even though we are married, I was still asked to provide parental w2s and tax returns, so it seems that Stanford did consider my parents' finances, which is what usually sinks my financial aid prospects.

 

[boredsms4]

Thank you very much for your comment. Your input and experience is really appreciated by my wife and me.

However, one thing that I am not sure about from what you said that I need to double check with finaid. My wife and I are both under 30 (26). Even though we are married, I was still asked to provide parental w2s and tax returns, so it seems that Stanford did consider my parents' finances, which is what usually sinks my financial aid prospects.

Was working off memory for the financial aid policies since its been a while... saw from your update that you received the university grant so maybe they now ask for it but don't consider it much if certain criteria is met. Grants are per quarter and will scale up for yrs that have 4q and if tuition gets increased as all grants are need-based only. Everyone only pays full tuition for 12 quarters (3+4+4+1). u will get the full grant amount as its applied to tuition first.

The grant u got is a 75% tuition grant/scholarship. Between medscholars and TAing your time at Stanford will v likely end up costing zero tuition.

Idk. Being able to attend a T5 medical school effectively tuition-free is the unicorn offer many ppl would kill for. That you're still not rly sold might mean u shouldn't go since there is almost nothing Stanford or any other school can offer u beyond this. I think it should be a no brainer but i'm not you and i mean... of course don't go if you're going to spend your entire time regretting your decision.

I'll just say.... you're putting a lot of stock in what is kinda just an idea of a dream life u might have in a place you've never lived that u have no family at and no guarantee you'll be at for more than 4 yrs. Reading thru the responses in this thread everyone seems to also ignore the impact medschool itself will have. Time becomes the limiting factor in everything u do once medschool kicks into gear, including spending time with your wife or starting a family. Forgetting prestige or career the ammt of time u will get to do either will also not be the same at both schools.

Good luck with whatever you decide... just make sure whatever it is that you have no regrets.

 

[thegrind33]

Choose Stanford cause I’m on longs waitlist lol. But for real the saying “happy wife happy life” didn’t just come from thin air.

 

[jessicajonesharvard]

If your wife is unhappy because you chose Stanford (better school, crazy reputation, beautiful suburban in CA) over Texas (low-tier, not even your home state, wtf is texas anyways), then shes not a wife material. Also, you may resent her (subconsciously or consciously) in the future for limiting your opportunities and this would strain your relationship. You think that would make her happy?

 

[thegrind33]

If your wife is unhappy because you chose Stanford (better school, crazy reputation, beautiful suburban in CA) over Texas (low-tier, not even your home state, wtf is texas anyways), then shes not a wife material. Also, you may resent her (subconsciously or consciously) in the future for limiting your opportunities and this would strain your relationship. You think that would make her happy?

I’d say long is mid-tier and maybe fringe upper-mid

 

[meronebib]

If your wife is unhappy because you chose Stanford (better school, crazy reputation, beautiful suburban in CA) over Texas (low-tier, not even your home state, wtf is texas anyways), then shes not a wife material. Also, you may resent her (subconsciously or consciously) in the future for limiting your opportunities and this would strain your relationship. You think that would make her happy?

Damn, it's really prestige > everything for you, isn't it?

 

[papercutscissors]

Damn, it's really prestige > everything for you, isn't it?

Look at their username, it explains everything!

 

[Dream of the Endless]

If your wife is unhappy because you chose Stanford (better school, crazy reputation, beautiful suburban in CA) over Texas (low-tier, not even your home state, wtf is texas anyways), then shes not a wife material. Also, you may resent her (subconsciously or consciously) in the future for limiting your opportunities and this would strain your relationship. You think that would make her happy?

 

[capriccio]

OP, from what I read I think you do want to go to Long, and are just finding it hard to look away from the presitge aura of Stanford. If you had crazy ambitions to be involved with tons of research, business, policy, etc. I would tell you to strongly consider Stanford and try to bring your wife around, but if your primary interest is becoming a great clinician for your patients, then I don't think it's necessary to sacrifice low COL, comfortable living space, a good place to set roots down, a med school you like, and potentially your wife's happiness. However, I'll say that I believe people are generally resilient and adaptable to new places even if they don't think so—it's what my mother experienced when they first came from overseas and she barely spoke English.

Still, these questions are really something only you and your wife can debate and answer from this point on.

If your wife is unhappy because you chose Stanford (better school, crazy reputation, beautiful suburban in CA) over Texas (low-tier, not even your home state, wtf is texas anyways), then shes not a wife material. Also, you may resent her (subconsciously or consciously) in the future for limiting your opportunities and this would strain your relationship. You think that would make her happy?

this post is mind boggling to me

 

[nickbet0011]

Just updated the post with my decision! My wife and I feel at peace about it. Thank you again everyone for this awesome discussion. Best of luck to anyone still on the waitlist!

 

[jessicajonesharvard]

Just updated the post with my decision! My wife and I feel at peace about it. Thank you again everyone for this awesome discussion. Best of luck to anyone still on the waitlist!

Congrats on your decision. You won’t regret it and you will be an amazing physician.

 

[DokterMom]

Final Update 05/24/19:
Last minute my wife and I decided to go with Stanford. While I believe that UTHSCSA would have also been an excellent choice, and perhaps much more comfortable in the short term, we both believe that Stanford will provide us with many opportunities and options in the future. While I do not know exactly what I want to pursue as a specialty, having the door open for anything, even the ultra competitive ones helps motivate me. Also, the idea of going in medical education and academia down the road does sound like something that I would really enjoy.

When the cost of attendance gap between the two was significantly reduced due to an unexpectedly generous aid package, I was a able to compromise with my wife and agree to take out additional loans in order to afford to live off campus at Stanford in an apartment that looked less like a shoe box and more similar to what we have in Arizona.

I ultimately realized that Stanford is and has always been my dream school. I think I would have had big regrets down the line if I missed out on this once in a lifetime opportunity. And while my wife definitely got the short end of the stick, it's my job now to prove to her that coming to Stanford will make our futures and our future children's futures better and that we can still start a family and find happiness even though finances will be constrained than they have ever been for us. I appreciate her willingness to support me in this decision. Even at the end, I assured her that I was ready to choose UTHSCSA to make her happy because that matters more to me than anything else. And before getting further into cheeseland, she was the one who ultimately have me the final push to make the decision for Stanford. I have a lot a respect for her.

You made the right call. You'll be getting a world-class education with unlimited future potential. I suspect your wife will come to really like Palo Alto, and even if she doesn't, she's almost certain to appreciate the wide-open doors you'll both have down the road thanks in no small part to your Stanford pedigree.

(It also bodes well for your marriage that she sacrificed her short-term comfort for your long-range opportunities.)
Edit: And also that you were willing to compromise your career opportunities for her happiness.