Stanford v Columbia

[leavingAMA231]

SOLVED

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[leavingAMA231]

Interesting, I was in a similarish position with Stanford on my short list and I thought they seemed pretty set on P/F clinicals. Was the change mentioned in a recent info session?

Yes they mentioned it at discovery days - years 3 and 4 will be graded

 

[MercifulCamper]

Interesting, I was in a similarish position with Stanford on my short list and I thought they seemed pretty set on P/F clinicals. Was the change mentioned in a recent info session?

It's a very recent change. Class of 2027 is grandfathered into P/F, but all other future classes will be graded. Don't quote me but I thought they were going to vote on it and it wasn't set in stone? But another recent change there had been rumblings about over there is that they may go 1.5 yrs pre clinical but I don't know if that will apply to your class.

 

[SailboatJ]

Based on your post it looks like you enjoyed the environment a lot more at Columbia - it reads as if that’s where you really want to go. Your 3 cons are really 2 cons given Stanford’s P/F clerkships switch, so let’s address those. It is true that the west coast probably feels “better” for the outdoors (this is my assumption, I haven’t spent any significant amount of time there) but don’t discount NYC. Central park is great during the summer (and other seasons as well) and trips upstate or into LI are always an option. If you seek it out, there is plenty to do with the outdoors in NYC during those long breaks. In regard to staying close to family, it’s up to you if that stability is worth giving up for 4 years for the chance of “better vibes” and the experience of living in NYC. Keep in mind that if you plan on matching back to the west coast (which Columbia shouldn’t have in issue with), these 4 years could be a chance to experience something different for a bit.

Are there any significant COA differences between the 2?

 

[leavingAMA231]

Based on your post it looks like you enjoyed the environment a lot more at Columbia - it reads as if that’s where you really want to go. Your 3 cons are really 2 cons given Stanford’s P/F clerkships switch, so let’s address those. It is true that the west coast probably feels “better” for the outdoors (this is my assumption, I haven’t spent any significant amount of time there) but don’t discount NYC. Central park is great during the summer (and other seasons as well) and trips upstate or into LI are always an option. If you seek it out, there is plenty to do with the outdoors in NYC during those long breaks. In regard to staying close to family, it’s up to you if that stability is worth giving up for 4 years for the chance of “better vibes” and the experience of living in NYC. Keep in mind that if you plan on matching back to the west coast (which Columbia shouldn’t have in issue with), these 4 years could be a chance to experience something different for a bit.

Are there any significant COA differences between the 2?

I appreciate this thorough response! No significant changes- and I suspect Bay Area prices are on par with NYC tbh in terms of extra spending throughout these years. The thing about being close to family is from stanford it’s a 2 hour flight and from NYC it’s 4 hrs. So yes choosing to be far for the “vibes” probably isnt a great thing but to get on a plane and go home is a 2 hour difference really that significant (genuinely wondering)

 

[BrokenLlamas]

They said URMs weren’t matching as well and they attributed it to the grading system. Also yes it would be my first time in a major city- so I don’t mind the sleepier part of town!

Hey fellow Stanford admit! Just wanted to add some additional context to the explanation re: grading system change - from what I recall during that one session during discovery days, Dr. Bernstein didn't exactly cite URMs as having worse matches due to the P/F grading system (***could have missed that tho). I think the consensus was that the current system in place at Stanford (P/F all 4 years), forced the students' ability to match well to become dependent almost entirely on two metrics (Step 2 scores and research productivity) since all Stanford medical students would have passing scores on their transcripts/dean's evaluations due to their pass now/pass later policies.

To reduce the emphasis on step 2 scores and research productivity required to match well, the administration is heavily leaning toward making clerkships "Pass with distinction" or "Pass", which is likely to take effect in 2026.

From what I understood, he stated that there were discrepancies in the clerkship grading for ORM and URM students with tiered grading (with URM students having worse outcomes, due to the inherent subjectivity of traditional clerkship grading). With this being acknowledged, they wanted to take steps to mitigate this discrepancy in their move toward implementing a grading system, by using a criterion-based honors system where theoretically everyone can honor a rotation.

I hope this additional info adds some helpful context to the situation!


edit: I'd also add that you seem more excited about Columbia (but tbh, none of your Stanford cons really seem like cons LOL - like the admin made it clear that despite 80% of the class choosing to take a 5th year, it is in no way pushed on you to actually do). The only con sounds like the "been there done that" kind of vibe, which I totally get. This is your one opportunity to experience another environment. Might as well do it now since you can always match back to the West Coast (which since you have family ties in the area, you'd have no problem doing, especially as a student from Columbia)! But obviously, you can't go wrong with either choice!!

No disclaimers (A at Stanford, R from Columbia)

edit: ***Apparently I did miss this - seems to be true based on the second-hand information I've been hearing

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

Hey fellow Stanford admit! Just wanted to add some additional context to the explanation re: grading system change - from what I recall during that one session during discovery days, Dr. Bernstein didn't exactly cite URMs as having worse matches due to the P/F grading system (could have missed that tho). I think the consensus was that the current system in place at Stanford (P/F all 4 years), forced the students' ability to match well to become dependent almost entirely on two metrics (Step 2 scores and research productivity) since all Stanford medical students would have passing scores on their transcripts/dean's evaluations due to their pass now/pass later policies.

To reduce the emphasis on step 2 scores and research productivity required to match well, the administration is heavily leaning toward making clerkships "Pass with distinction" or "Pass", which is likely to take effect in 2026.

From what I understood, he stated that there were discrepancies in the clerkship grading for ORM and URM students with tiered grading (with URM students having worse outcomes, due to the inherent subjectivity of traditional clerkship grading). With this being acknowledged, they wanted to take steps to mitigate this discrepancy in their move toward implementing a grading system, by using a criterion-based honors system where theoretically everyone can honor a rotation.

I hope this additional info adds some helpful context to the situation!


edit: I'd also add that you seem more excited about Columbia (but tbh, none of your Stanford cons really seem like cons LOL - like the admin made it clear that despite 80% of the class choosing to take a 5th year, it is in no way pushed on you to actually do). The only con sounds like the "been there done that" kind of vibe, which I totally get. This is your one opportunity to experience another environment. Might as well do it now since you can always match back to the West Coast (which since you have family ties in the area, you'd have no problem doing, especially as a student from Columbia)! But obviously, you can't go wrong with either choice!!

No disclaimers (A at Stanford, R from Columbia)

That's an interesting pivot from Stanford. Curious to see what their criterion based system is, and if everyone ends up honoring then it loses its value.

 

[SailboatJ]

I appreciate this thorough response! No significant changes- and I suspect Bay Area prices are on par with NYC tbh in terms of extra spending throughout these years. The thing about being close to family is from stanford it’s a 2 hour flight and from NYC it’s 4 hrs. So yes choosing to be far for the “vibes” probably isnt a great thing but to get on a plane and go home is a 2 hour difference really that significant (genuinely wondering)

That's up to you to decide if those flight times pose a significant difference. Personally, if I'm going through the hassle of getting on a flight, 2 vs 4 hours makes no difference to me, so I would probably remove that as a deciding factor.

I'd also argue that all other things equal, choosing based on "vibes" is not a bad idea. You're gonna spend 4 years wherever it is that you go - enjoying the "vibes" and meshing with the students that you'll spend the next few years with is a valid concern. That's a big part of the reason second look is so valuable in making a decision imo.