Stanford University PGY-2 for July 2017 opening

[Stanford RadOnc]

Stanford University Radiation Oncology is seeking a qualified applicant to fill a July 2017 start for a PGY-2. If you are interested and can obtain a CA medical license please contact [email protected].

Please send an updated CV along with a letter of intent and 2 reference letters.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[XRT_doc]

Stanford University Radiation Oncology is seeking a qualified applicant to fill a July 2017 start for a PGY-2. If you are interested and can obtain a CA medical license please contact [email protected].

Please send an updated CV along with a letter of intent and 2 reference letters.

Not like there isn't enough PGY-2 positions out there.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Expansion at Stanford once again? Or did one of their prospective PGY-2s have a change of heart (either about the field or the institution)?

 

[Stanford RadOnc]

Expansion at Stanford once again? Or did one of their prospective PGY-2s have a change of heart (either about the field or the institution)?

No change of heart. PGY-2 opening all by the guidelines

 

[JonJonStick]

No change of heart. PGY-2 opening all by the guidelines

Shafted by ACGME one spot at a time

 

[Reaganite]

Awesome. When said candidate is ready to graduate, I'll have a full-time position ready for 150k a year. Tell he or she to hit me up!

 

[XRT_doc]

Awesome. When said candidate is ready to graduate, I'll have a full-time position ready for 150k a year. Tell he or she to hit me up!

I know for a fact that Stanford was offering their Radonc faculty 90k per year if you were straight out of residency (with no bonus). I guess that's congruent with all their openings to get that cheap labor supply. Also don't expect your salary to go up by much after that. I know nurses in Palo Alto making more than that. Disgusting.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

There is also a clinical fellowship opening on the ASTRO website. Get that cheap labor!

 

[deleted127837]

I know for a fact that Stanford was offering their Radonc faculty 90k per year if you were straight out of residency (with no bonus). I guess that's congruent with all their openings to get that cheap labor supply. Also don't expect your salary to go up by much after that. I know nurses in Palo Alto making more than that. Disgusting.

Wait really? 90k? How does that even work for living in Palo Alto?

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Wait really? 90k? How does that even work for living in Palo Alto?

https://fsh.stanford.edu/index.shtml

 

[thecarbonionangle]

No surprise here. Don't expect any "leaders" to be part of the solution when they stand to benefit the most from cheap labour. They are in fact the biggest problem, IMO. Many see no problem with the expansions and continue to expand their respective institutions. All they care about is checking the boxes and "following the guidelines" while leading the field into the apocalypse. A good portion of graduates in this institution already stay on as fellows, seems like they already cannibalize their own.

 

[medgator]

There is also a clinical fellowship opening on the ASTRO website. Get that cheap labor!

While learning about novel techniques in radiation oncology like IMRT and IGRT.

They could've just said "we'll pay you a little better than your PGY5 to just go ahead and do another year of residency"

or

"Why hire junior faculty when you can hire a cheaper PGY-6 instead?"

 

[OTN]

No change of heart. PGY-2 opening all by the guidelines

Why on Earth would you expand your residency program right now? Are the academic departments really that clueless? It's either that or all the conspiracy theorists might be on to something. Cluelessness would be better, but not by much. What a nightmare.

 

[XRT_doc]

Why on Earth would you expand your residency program right now? Are the academic departments really that clueless? It's either that or all the conspiracy theorists might be on to something. Cluelessness would be better, but not by much. What a nightmare.

I doubt they're clueless. It's now common knowledge that graduates have trouble finding jobs. The senior faculty at Stanford are both selfish and short-sighted. When I interviewed for a Stanford faculty position they had less then 10 patients per faculty. How on earth do they even have sufficient number of patients to train their own residents. I honestly doubt they actually "meet the requirements" and are somehow fudging the numbers (ie including the patients they have in their satellites, some of which are more than 50 miles away).

 

[bluebubbles]

I think Stanford is a lovely program.

Except they don't have free food at teaching conferences. If they could work on that, it'd be perfect.

 

[medgator]

I doubt they're clueless. It's now common knowledge that graduates have trouble finding jobs. The senior faculty at Stanford are both selfish and short-sighted. When I interviewed for a Stanford faculty position they had less then 10 patients per faculty. How on earth do they even have sufficient number of patients to train their own residents. I honestly doubt they actually "meet the requirements" and are somehow fudging the numbers (ie including the patients they have in their satellites, some of which are more than 50 miles away).

less than 10 under beam? I guess the 5-figure salary might make sense in that context....

 

[thesauce]

No change of heart. PGY-2 opening all by the guidelines

Do you not understand how seriously damaging these expansions are to our field?

 

[XRT_doc]

Do you not understand how seriously damaging these expansions are to our field?

Well it says the person is "academic administration". So she doesn't really give a damn about the field. But what baffles me is how none of the senior faculty at Stanford radonc give a hoot. I know for sure the chair doesn't care, but its disappointing that the other faculty don't care either.

 

[bluebubbles]

I know for sure the chair doesn't care.

Does she have a good rationale, or just other priorities?

 

[medgator]

Does she have a good rationale, or just other priorities?

If you had the option of cheaper labor for your department, would you not take the opportunity?

 

[XRT_doc]

Does she have a good rationale, or just other priorities?

Precisely. The chair has to reply to her seniors when it comes to the budget of the department. The cheaper the faculty she can hire, the better her bottom line will be. Who cares if the graduating resident can't find a job that can pay back their loans.

 

[deleted18755]

Precisely. The chair has to reply to her seniors when it comes to the budget of the department. The cheaper the faculty she can hire, the better her bottom line will be. Who cares if the graduating resident can't find a job that can pay back their loans.

As far as the chairs are concerned residency expansion is the gift that keeps on giving . . . cheap labor for the next 4 years during residency (+1-2 for "fellowship") then after graduation hire the same guy as junior faculty for even less. So it makes sense for both the short- and intermediate-future and most chairs are close to enough to retirement age that they don't care about long-term future (10-15 years).

 

[evilbooyaa]

https://fsh.stanford.edu/index.shtml

Mother of god. Subsidized housing for attendings?

 

[XRT_doc]

Mother of god. Subsidized housing for attendings?

Stanford will just say: be glad that you're not a homeless attending.

I'm in a major metro area and I know for a fact that Dosimetrists are working for free to help them land a job (There's an abundance of them here). We radoncs won't be too far away with all these openings that the likes of this OP are advertising.

 

[seper]

I've seen this with internal medicine attendings in NYC back in mid-2000's. A lot of them were basically bums and couch surfers )
I better hold on to my current job.

 

[medgator]

Stanford will just say: be glad that you're not a homeless attending.

I'm in a major metro area and I know for a fact that Dosimetrists are working for free to help them land a job (There's an abundance of them here). We radoncs won't be too far away with all these openings that the likes of this OP are advertising.

Didn't realize the dosimetry market was that bad...

Mother of god. Subsidized housing for attendings?

Not hard to imagine. California as a whole isn't known for high physician salaries and the high taxes certainly don't help. The people who can really afford housing are the multi millionaires/billionaires in tech and Hollywood.

Seriously, have you looked at the median home price or rent in a nice suburb of L.A.or SF?

 

[MPHradonc]

Hey all - a little misinformation here. I'm at Stanford, and I can tell you that faculty salaries start at >>> 90,000. Maybe XRT_doc interviewed for a fellowship or single-year instructor position, but that's not faculty salary nor bonus structure. And the <10 on-treat patients is also incorrect. And I wouldn't call us or our chair selfish or shortsighted - not sure where your ax to grind is coming from, but seems a little much.

 

[radoncftw]

I don't know that the program is expanding. I think their incoming PGY-2 class has 3 (instead of 4?) and they're looking to fill the 4th position.

As a current applicant, Stanford isn't the only program offering advanced PGY-2 positions this cycle. There are ~5-6 programs.

 

[XRT_doc]

I know for a fact that Stanford was offering their Radonc faculty 90k per year if you were straight out of residency (with no bonus). I guess that's congruent with all their openings to get that cheap labor supply. Also don't expect your salary to go up by much after that. I know nurses in Palo Alto making more than that. Disgusting.

Good thing Stanford advertised the position on Astro (titled instructor not fellow) with a salary of 90k. Just look at the previous threads on this forum where people were baffled by that incredibly low salary. Their fellows get paid 30k less than that (60k). Stanfords advertising an expansion every other year and that's pretty dumb in my opinion. And I know from first hand experience the average number of patients per doctor which is 10.

 

[bluebubbles]

Stanford isn't the only program offering advanced PGY-2 positions this cycle. There are ~5-6 programs.

What're the other programs? Just curious.

And I wouldn't call us or our chair selfish or shortsighted - not sure where your ax to grind is coming from, but seems a little much.

I think people are just scared and frustrated with the labor market supply/demand issues. Not every residency program has multiple former ASTRO presidents that can go to bat for them come job search time.

 

[MPHradonc]

Instructor is different than faculty here. And fellows make more than 60k. In fact, PGY-2s at Stanford make more than 60k, and it goes up yearly. You can debate the merits of increasing residency slots for sure, and that's totally legitimate. But you're quoting all these incorrect numbers about Stanford as fact (XRT_doc) - including faculty salary, fellow salary, number of patients per attending - and they're just not true. Alternative facts?

 

[MPHradonc]

What're the other programs? Just curious.



I think people are just scared and frustrated with the labor market supply/demand issues. Not every residency program has multiple former ASTRO presidents that can go to bat for them come job search time.

I agree - this is a real issue and you've got a good point.

 

[XRT_doc]

Instructor is different than faculty here. And fellows make more than 60k. In fact, PGY-2s at Stanford make more than 60k, and it goes up yearly. You can debate the merits of increasing residency slots for sure, and that's totally legitimate. But you're quoting all these incorrect numbers about Stanford as fact (XRT_doc) - including faculty salary, fellow salary, number of patients per attending - and they're just not true. Alternative facts?

The point is they are paying their attendings 90k (call them whatever you want but they are not trainees, i.e. Resident or fellows).

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Things escalated quickly.

 

[OTN]

Things escalated quickly.

Appropriately so, though. To open a new residency position in the current climate is completely inexcusable.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Definitely not disputing that. Popcorn worthy thread IMO.

 

[RadTastic]

FYI, Stanford resident salary:

PGY II $65,748.80
PGY III $70,761.60
PGY IV $74,755.20
PGY V $79,435.20

plus:

• $6,000 per year (paid as $500 monthly) housing stipend
  
  
• $3,000 one-time moving allowance the first year you're hired at Stanford (even if you don't actually move)
  
  
• $1,000 per year cell phone allowance
  
  
• $2,000 per year education allowance
  
  
• Meal stipend if timely duty hours completion and shift >12 hours
  

• (source: Neurology residence website, same for rad onc residency, except for the cell phone allowance; https://med.stanford.edu/neurology/education/salaryandbenefits.html)

(and yes, clinical instructors make a little over 90K)

Also, Stanford is being a little unfairly targeted, this behavior is rampant across many residencies, most prominently the big "top tier" academic programs. Also, with >60 new residency positions across the board in the past 5 years, this 1 new spot is a drop in the bucket.

 

[XRT_doc]

FYI, Stanford resident salary:

PGY II $65,748.80
PGY III $70,761.60
PGY IV $74,755.20
PGY V $79,435.20

plus:

• $6,000 per year (paid as $500 monthly) housing stipend
  
  
• $3,000 one-time moving allowance the first year you're hired at Stanford (even if you don't actually move)
  
  
• $1,000 per year cell phone allowance
  
  
• $2,000 per year education allowance
  
  
• Meal stipend if timely duty hours completion and shift >12 hours

• (source: Neurology residence website, same for rad onc residency, except for the cell phone allowance; https://med.stanford.edu/neurology/education/salaryandbenefits.html)

(and yes, clinical instructors make a little over 90K)

Also, Stanford is being a little unfairly targeted, this behavior is rampant across many residencies, most prominently the big "top tier" academic programs. Also, with >60 new residency positions across the board in the past 5 years, this 1 new spot is a drop in the bucket.

Who cares about the resident pay, I was talking about the crappy Attending pay. Also Stanford advertises a new residency position every other year. Just do a search on Stanford in this forum. That in combination with the crappy attending pay is despicable.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

I'm sure the 90k is a base salary and there are bonuses and what not beyond that. Still, it's insanely low. Particularly because they're probably the ones generating the bulk of the revenue for the place if the academic expectation is low.

 

[MPHradonc]

This job that XRT_doc is all bent out of shape about is 1 single-year site-specific instructor position that exists at Stanford, geared primarily for people who don't get a long-term academic job they want and/or need to be in this area and would rather do this than a fellowship while applying for faculty jobs. This person is not generating the bulk of the revenue for Stanford, and there's actually a lot of protected research time - and the people who've done it have ended up getting great academic jobs the next year. So yes, ideally everyone would get their perfect forever job directly out of residency, but for those for whom that doesn't happen, this is 1 single position that's an option. Not sure how that's getting interpreted as Stanford having crappy attending pay or despicableness or where this huge chip on the shoulder is coming from.

 

[winstonfoot5]

this behavior is rampant across many residencies, most prominently the big "top tier" academic programs. Also, with >60 new residency positions across the board in the past 5 years, this 1 new spot is a drop in the bucket

While perhaps true, i'm not sure this "tragedy of the commons" approach is best for the field

 

[RadTastic]

Mandelin Rain - Agree

XRT_doc - How do you know what the attendings at Stanford are paid? It seems you are referring to the clinical instructor salary which, yes, is despicably low. However, MPHradonc makes very legitimate points about this position. I sure as hell wouldn't take that job, but if someone wants it knowing full well their pay is ridiculously low, I don't see the problem with that. People also take fellowships every year and that has been going on for a long time (though the numbers doing this and positions are increasing). I 100% agree this is sad for graduating residents and our field in general going the way of radiology. But if a hospital offers the position (be it fellowship or clinical instructor) and someone takes it, that is their perogative. There are plenty of other awesome rad onc jobs out there that actually pay real money. Yes the "job market sucks" as we complain about year after year, but people keep getting jobs, yes, even in California where there have actually been a ton of jobs available this year. They may not all get posted but I know of at least 5 legit jobs that pay real attending money in California this year. They are hard to get, of course, but people (including new grads) are getting them.. And yes, they pay less than North Dakota but that is the same in every medical field. It's not just rad onc that pays a lot less in major metropolitan cities. Supply/demand.

 

[XRT_doc]

Mandelin Rain - Agree

XRT_doc - How do you know what the attendings at Stanford are paid? It seems you are referring to the clinical instructor salary which, yes, is despicably low. However, MPHradonc makes very legitimate points about this position. I sure as hell wouldn't take that job, but if someone wants it knowing full well their pay is ridiculously low, I don't see the problem with that. People also take fellowships every year and that has been going on for a long time (though the numbers doing this and positions are increasing). I 100% agree this is sad for graduating residents and our field in general going the way of radiology. But if a hospital offers the position (be it fellowship or clinical instructor) and someone takes it, that is their perogative. There are plenty of other awesome rad onc jobs out there that actually pay real money. Yes the "job market sucks" as we complain about year after year, but people keep getting jobs, yes, even in California where there have actually been a ton of jobs available this year. They may not all get posted but I know of at least 5 legit jobs that pay real attending money in California this year. They are hard to get, of course, but people (including new grads) are getting them.. And yes, they pay less than North Dakota but that is the same in every medical field. It's not just rad onc that pays a lot less in major metropolitan cities. Supply/demand.

It really baffles me how some doctors on this thread do not understand that a supply/demand economy doesn't work when you control both the supply and the demand. The only reason positions like the clinical instructor position are getting filled or that people are taking fellowship positions is because there is such an abundance in supply.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

a supply/demand economy doesn't work when you control both the supply and the demand..

Tell it to The Fed. #20,000.

 

[Burt Radnolds]

Lets not get off topic here. I don't care how much you get paid or how many patients you have on treatment, if this is a new residency position, its embarrassing. I fully approve at looking at any PGY-2 posting with a high degree of scrutiny. Any truly de novo residency position deserves public mockery as it represents at minimum, short sightedness, but usually also some combination of laziness, greed, and a general disregard for the state of the field. Also, just because "other programs are doing it" doesn't even remotely make it okay. It's like a child telling their parents "Billy's mom lets him stay up till 11 every night playing Nintendo, so why can't I?!" Sure, Stanford is no worse than the others that are doing it, but congratulations, you are all terrible.

 

[OTN]

Lets not get off topic here. I don't care how much you get paid or how many patients you have on treatment, if this is a new residency position, its embarrassing. I fully approve at looking at any PGY-2 posting with a high degree of scrutiny. Any truly de novo residency position deserves public mockery as it represents at minimum, short sightedness, but usually also some combination of laziness, greed, and a general disregard for the state of the field. Also, just because "other programs are doing it" doesn't even remotely make it okay. It's like a child telling their parents "Billy's mom lets him stay up till 11 every night playing Nintendo, so why can't I?!" Sure, Stanford is no worse than the others that are doing it, but congratulations, you are all terrible.

EXACTLY. Stanford isn't being "unfairly targeted" it's being appropriately targeted, as it's opened a residency position which does not deserve to exist.

 

[RadTastic]

obviously I think everyone agrees the expansion of residency positions without a similar lack of job opportunities is bad for our field. However I would point out two things.

1) There actually is a good supply of jobs, its is just in in geographically undesirable areas. I see tons of jobs with good pay posted in places I don't want to live. This seems to be a theme in medicine in general...

2) Don't hate the player hate the game. This isn't really the (many many not just Stanford) programs that are screwing us all over. It's the system. They are just taking advantage of the system handed to them and playing by the rules in place. I believe this has been debated over and over on this message board in the past on other threads. There are a lot of crappy systems in place in society (think, electoral college where someone can get 3 million less votes but still be president...). People just play by the rules of the system they are in and will take advantage of those rules for their self/institutional interests.

Someone do a root cause analysis on this, but I can guarantee you the blame shouldn't be on Stanford or any other program that is just taking advantage of a system in place to get more cheap labor. The root cause is higher than that. Someone else knows better than me but I believe it has something to do with ACGME/SCAROP/Illuminati/Harambe

 

[RadTastic]

EXACTLY. Stanford isn't being "unfairly targeted" it's being appropriately targeted, as it's opened a residency position which does not deserve to exist.

I can guarantee you many many people will be salivating for this position and whoever gets it will be extremely happy, will get good training, write 1000 H&P's, publish a bunch of pointless papers, and probably will get a good job when they finish residency (after a year long fellowship, of course, given the trajectory of our field). So I'm not sure anyone can decide whether this position "deserves to exist" or not, especially when new programs and other residency expansions are spreading like wildfire. If people are so butt hurt and crying about how hard it is to get a job, then maybe they should go into a different field, like family medicine or psychiatry. Despite all the cries of injustice on this message board, the vast majority of people do get jobs and do make real money. Especially if they go to North Dakota. Or Kansas.

 

[XRT_doc]

I can guarantee you many many people will be salivating for this position and whoever gets it will be extremely happy, will get good training, write 1000 H&P's, publish a bunch of pointless papers, and probably will get a good job when they finish residency (after a year long fellowship, of course, given the trajectory of our field). So I'm not sure anyone can decide whether this position "deserves to exist" or not, especially when new programs and other residency expansions are spreading like wildfire. If people are so butt hurt and crying about how hard it is to get a job, then maybe they should go into a different field, like family medicine or psychiatry. Despite all the cries of injustice on this message board, the vast majority of people do get jobs and do make real money. Especially if they go to North Dakota. Or Kansas.

Im just glad I graduated before I had to spend an extra year in fellowship then one as an instructor before I could land a job making less than a CNA.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

How long is long enough to learn the practice of advanced circle drawing? Before it was 3. Currently it's 4, but rapidly trending toward 5. I guess the hope is we'll be able to keep the advanced circle drawing course to the same time frame as the advanced brain surgery course.