Stacking up at RIC

[2nd year]

I am only in my second year and obviously have to deal with Step 1 before I can become overly concerned with applying to residencies. I do, however, have a few questions at this point. I have read a lot about different programs and what is valued on applications for residency. Like most, I obviously find the RIC program very appealing on paper. Realizing that RIC is consistently ranked as the number one rehab hospital in America, I'm sure that the "PM&R isn't too competivtive" cliche' doesn't apply there. That being said, what does it take to be considered at a program like this? Is research a must? Perhaps it is a big advantage? How crucial are grades/USMLE scores? Will having experience working as a P.T. be much of an edge? Any insight would really be appreciated. Thanks.

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[DigableCat]

I'm going to defer to RIC residents on what it takes to get into RIC as they obviously know.

That being said, unless you have a compelling reason to go to RIC(or Chicago), I would suggest that you also explore many of the other great residency programs across the country. And while many programs look good on paper, try to speak with residents. They will be more informative. A good source of resident communication is the Medical Student Mentorship Program at the AAPM&R website.

http://www.aapmr.org/medstu/resmedment.htm

Also, take a look at the SDN PM&R roster:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=70590

MSK, kurt rambis, axm397, triple H(current RIC residents) have all been useful contributing posters to this forum.

All programs will be looking for competitive candidates with good LORs and Board Scores with a shown committment to PM&R(research, electives, etc). A great caring personality that others wouldn't mind working with and can make a family/patient at ease during a time of transition doesn't hurt either.

Realizing that RIC is consistently ranked as the number one rehab hospital in America, I'm sure that the "PM&R isn't too competivtive" cliche' doesn't apply there.

Remember that the US News rankings rankings for PM&R do not necessarily reflect the quality of the residency programs.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/hosptl/rankings/specrepreha.htm

REHABILITATION

Ranked only by reputation, hospitals in these specialties were names by at least 3 percent of the specialists responding to U.S. News surveys in 2002, 2003, and 2004.

Not very scientific. Take it at face value. Hopefully you'll end up choosing the program you feel most comfortable with, and not be too influenced by rankings. We'll all end up physiatrists in the end and most of us find lucrative positions and competitive fellowship spots no matter where we did our residency.

Good luck in your search.

 

[axm397]

I think one of the strengths of RIC is that the residents are so diverse. Sure, there are super-smart AOA types but there are also people like me - average in every way.

I think digable cat is right, any quality that would make you attractive to RIC would make you attractive to most PM&R residencies.

Good board scores and grades can't hurt but more importantly, your understanding of the field and committment to the advancement of the field, "people skills", research (not a MUST but would reallyhelp), and your performance in away electives. I think doing an elective at RIC definitely helps although I did NOT do an elective there. Good LORs from academic physiatrists (they all know each other) definitely count. Your personal statement actually does get read - and I think presenting yourself as a package in your personal statement in combination with your CV helps.

I think PM&R is getting more competitive but not in the way you would think. I know of many PDs who would pass up on AOA top board scores type for the average type with better personality. Of course, AOA top board score types with good personality would be best



Also, I do agree with diagble cat that you should NOT choose programs based on "paper" alone. Obviously, as a 2nd year, it's probably difficult to find other ways of evaluating programs. I think websites like this help. Visiting programs in your area, getting a "feel" for the program also helps. If you don't fit in, you won't be happy no matter how good a program looks on paper. As you go through your 3rd year, keep your mind open and ask questions about residency to th residents you will be working with (not just PM&R) You will hopefully be able to come up with a list of program characteristics you value by the end of your 3rd year. (size, location, salary, hours, benefits, faculty, resident personalities, program director character, reputation, etc.)

I think RIC does have a good reputation in the PM&R world and the facutly is top notch. But there are many programs in this country with great faculty and reputation.

What area of PM&R are you most interested in? What kind of skills do you hope to posess by the end of residency? Do you want to pursue a fellowship? Do you want to be in academic physiatry?( then a bigger academic residency may be better) What area of the country do you eventually want to practice in? There are lots of things to consider.

Hope this helps you get thinking...

 

[Jekyll&Hyde]

So here's my two cents. Take it for whatever it's worth. I don't know what "average" means, but I think if you were to look it up in the dictionary, my photo would take up the whole page. I had straight B's during my first two years of med school. Seriously, all B's. My third year clerkships were all B's except for an A in Family. I did three electives in PM&R. Two of them I received an A, and I got a B after the RIC one. I scored the national average on Step 1. I failed Step 2 CK initially and retook it scoring the average score on Step 2. I did research at the RIC and used 2 LOR's from faculty at the RIC. I felt my interview was average as well.

I don't know if any of that helped or deterred me from getting into RIC. But I did rank it as number one. In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't match there because I ranked it purely on the fact that it had the #1 Reputation according to USNews and such. Looking back, I realize I had an uncomfortable experience when I was there. It really made me think twice about PM&R. I didn't like the attending I was working with. I felt that the atmosphere was a little tense. And the residents were not as laid-back as I had hoped.

So to answer your question, I believe that your chances of getting into RIC are slim to none if you fit my profile. We can all pat you on the back and say, "personality matters, LOR's matter, Dean's letters, extracurricular activities, examples of commitment... yada yada yada." But let's face it. Everything else being equal amongst the interview candidates, it all comes down to luck and the caliber of applicants that year. Not to diminish the previous years residents, but I think this years applicant pool was much more competitive than the past. So an "average" student like me would have gotten in a lot easier in the past than now. I guess the point I'm trying to get across is that RIC is #1 for a reason. It's at the top of everyone's list for their own reason. The sooner you realize it, the better off you'll be.

 

[axm397]

I'm not trying to give ppl false hope or trying to be nice.

I find it hard to believe that this year's applicant pool was THAT different from last year's. The stats look pretty similar and many of the applicants I met this year seem comparable to last year's.

I have to say I still believe what I said - that RIC is very diverse and sure there are AOA super smart ppl with super high board scores and grades but there are also ppl like me.

I'm from a mid level US MD school (no Ivy league or anything). I had pretty much all "passes" (we grade on pass/highpass/honors system) my first two years. I did average (national average) on step 1 and step 2. I got mostly high pass and honors during 3rd year and I did two away electives - Kessler and JFK - honored both and got letters out of both rotations. I did a small case report in PM&R for my research. I got 3 pm&r LORs, 1 IM LOR (from cleveland clinic), and 1 Med/Peds PD LOR (he was my attending during my medicine clerkship). I did an A.I. in neurology - got honors in that. I did lots of extracurricular activities.

And really, that's about it. I'm sure MANY of the other applicants my year out-scored me and had much more impressive CVs. I really have absolutely NO idea how I matched at RIC. I did LOVE it there though - I really liked the other residents and actually enjoyed the didactic sessions. I also liked Chicago. I think I interviewed pretty well at other places but didn't think my interview at RIC went well at all. Dr sliwa is very hard to read. I got personal letters and cards from several PDs from some of the highly regarded PM&R programs including west coast programs (for all you californians). I got NO feedback from RIC.

Honestly, the board scores and grades may get you the interview but I think it's the interview that counts the most. Especially in PM&R where the "team approach" is key - personality actually matters. If your personality doesn't mesh with the "personality" of the program, you won't be happy and they won't be happy. There are enough programs out there that you are bound to find a few where you would fit in.

Good luck and just take changes - you never know until you try... don't be one of those "woulda coulda shoulda" people...