Specialties that are 40 hours a week and pay well

[Fried Plantaris]

When I say 40 hours/week, I'm considering that the standard, i.e. not part time, but instead common practice across the board.

Derm
Psych
Ophtho
Plastic surgery

What else am I missing? Any IM subspecialties?

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[Prehealth1011]

Depends on your definition of what well paying is. Endo and Rheum are 40h a week

 

[RangerBob]

Any specialty can be 40hrs or less. It all depends on your practice setup.

PM&R is another specialty with typically low hours.

I believe rheum and allergy/immunology have low hours, but I don’t know as much about the IM sub specialties.

Im not so sure optho belongs in the group, but perhaps my experience was biased by the academic ophthos I worked with.

EM may be another one with low weekly hours, but with all the shift changes it can feel longer.

 

[throwaway199]

When I say 40 hours/week, I'm considering that the standard, i.e. not part time, but instead common practice across the board.

Derm
Psych
Ophtho
Plastic surgery

What else am I missing? Any IM subspecialties?

All the above specialties you included depends on how much you wanna make vs how much hrs you wanna put in

 

[Lem0nz]

I'm sorry - and maybe I'm wrong, but I have not met a plastic surgeon on the Earth who works 40 hrs/week. Plastic surgery can and often has horrible hours. They don't have much *call*, *emergencies*, or *overnight* work, but they have very busy clinics, they have their primary cases, and then they have all of their reconstruction stuff (even if its just simple breast) where they're at the mercy of another surgeon and always go second and these cases may not even start until 3-4 in the afternoon after you've already worked a long day that probably started at 6am. I see this as a recurring theme from medical students that plastic surgery lifestyle is easy. Maybe other surgeons can weigh in but that's absolute crazy talk to me. Plastic surgery is tough stuff and those surgeons are steely mofos. They get paid super well and they're super smart and passionate, but they wwwwoooorrrrkkkkk for their pennies.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

What do you mean by paying well? Because I think you can work 40 hrs a week in any specialty and still get "paid well" meaning top 5% of income earners in the U.S.

 

[Mad Jack]

A&I

 

[odyssey2]

Radiology in academics or VA

 

[Fried Plantaris]

What do you mean by paying well? Because I think you can work 40 hrs a week in any specialty and still get "paid well" meaning top 5% of income earners in the U.S.

Idk, I guess above $250,000.

And I say common practice because while these part time spots do exist, it may require an extensive job search/move in order to find that one particular opening. I'm about to enter clinicals this summer and just trying to get a gauge on possible careers

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

FM. I work 36h/week in the office only. 2020 I grossed 310k. It would've been more but my partner retired in July so the first 6 months of the year were slow, plus 2 months where my numbers just tanked due to COVID. Also took 4 weeks off for vacation and another 1-2 for sick kids/long weekends/COVID quarantines.

If I keep the same numbers for this year that I did August-December of last year I should end up between 375-400k for 2021.

 

[GreenDuck12]

^
As for earning potential, specialty certainly plays a role but dont forget geography. Plenty of docs in my city earn about 2/3 of what they could in a less desirable area even though the CoL is much different.

 

[Qwerty122]

Rads. Much easier to be part time relative to some other specialties, since you aren't directly in charge for any patients. You're a replaceable "cog" in a wheel, and that can be both a good and bad thing.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Idk, I guess above $250,000.

And I say common practice because while these part time spots do exist, it may require an extensive job search/move in order to find that one particular opening. I'm about to enter clinicals this summer and just trying to get a gauge on possible careers

In this case, Radiology, Neurology, Psych, EM, PM&R come to mind. Any surgery specialty can get you way above 300K as well, but I can't guarantee you 40hrs/week.

 

[efle]

Spoiler: Hours per Specialty - JAMA paper

There's the hours worked per field in a survey published in JAMA.

Here are the income IQRs for some of the lower down specialties (I'm also adding Radiology and Pathology which were missing from their survey but very possible to work 8 hours/day). Keep in mind the lower end are probably the ones working the best hours, and the higher end are working a lot of hours, though other factors like region matter a lot too.

RadOnc: 450 - 660
Diagnostic Rads: 410 - 630
Plastics: 400 - 660
Dermatology: 360 - 615
Emergency Med: 300 - 420
Pathology: 290 - 420
Ophthalmology: 280 - 520
Neurology: 250 - 380
Hospitalists: 250 - 340
Allergy/Immuno: 240 - 470
PM&R: 230 - 370
Psych: 220 - 320
Occupational: 210 - 280
Endocrine: 210 - 300
Family Med: 200 - 290
Peds: 190 - 290

 

[RangerBob]

Radiology in academics or VA

Or just about any VA job...

 

[odyssey2]

Or just about any VA job...

OP specified high paying as well

 

[ACSurgeon]

OP specified high paying as well

Then he defined high paying as 250k...

 

[odyssey2]

Then he defined high paying as 250k...

Which is most doctors anyway. Rads is unquestionably good for low work hours and high pay, relative to other physicians, in certain settings.

 

[odyssey2]

Spoiler: Hours per Specialty - JAMA paper

There's the hours worked per field in a survey published in JAMA.

Here are the income IQRs for some of the lower down specialties (I'm also adding Radiology and Pathology which were missing from their survey but very possible to work 8 hours/day). Keep in mind the lower end are probably the ones working the best hours, and the higher end are working a lot of hours, though other factors like region matter a lot too.

RadOnc: 450 - 660
Diagnostic Rads: 410 - 630
Plastics: 400 - 660
Dermatology: 360 - 615
Emergency Med: 300 - 420
Pathology: 290 - 420
Ophthalmology: 280 - 520
Neurology: 250 - 380
Hospitalists: 250 - 340
Allergy/Immuno: 240 - 470
PM&R: 230 - 370
Psych: 220 - 320
Occupational: 210 - 280
Endocrine: 210 - 300
Family Med: 200 - 290
Peds: 190 - 290

Where are those income IQRs from?

 

[efle]

Where are those income IQRs from?

A very good source (I'll PM you)

 

[Spybil]

A very good source (I'll PM you)

Can you pm me as well?

 

[Kaputt]

I average 50-60 hours a week as a diagnostic radiologist and it feels like I'm swimming in cash. Well, relative to my residency and fellowship paychecks. I'm able to buy a $500 LEGO set whenever I want, so that should tell you enough.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

FM. I work 36h/week in the office only. 2020 I grossed 310k. It would've been more but my partner retired in July so the first 6 months of the year were slow, plus 2 months where my numbers just tanked due to COVID. Also took 4 weeks off for vacation and another 1-2 for sick kids/long weekends/COVID quarantines.

If I keep the same numbers for this year that I did August-December of last year I should end up between 375-400k for 2021.

Do these 36 hours include all the extra stuff like reviewing things that come in electronically, charting, etc?

 

[Piskaupf]

Work as a school administrator and you won’t have to work at all!

 

[Neopolymath]

Undercover chill is allergy/immuno versus rheum. You just have to choose which type of nightmare patient you have to see a few times a day in clinic. The rest of the patients are incredibly greatful and pleasant in both specialties. And you can say the magic words "please discuss that with your PCP." *Angels singing*

Rheum has more interesting patients than A/I though in my experience.

 

[Damson]

Radiology in academics or VA

what does it mean to work in VA?

 

[Kaputt]

what does it mean to work in VA?

Read like 5 cases all day on the federal government's dime. Make far less $ than private practice sweatshop radiologists do but laugh at them while you peel out of the VA parking lot in your Camry at 3pm

 

[odyssey2]

Read like 5 cases all day on the federal government's dime. Make far less $ than private practice sweatshop radiologists do but laugh at them while you peel out of the VA parking lot in your Camry at 3pm

Can one truly laugh in a Camry?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Do these 36 hours include all the extra stuff like reviewing things that come in electronically, charting, etc?

I am in the office from 8-5 M, Tu, Th, F with lunch from 12 to 1:15 and W 8-12. I do not do any work (other than q12 phone call) when I am not in the office.

 

[sevo00]

Anesthesia here. I work 35-40 hrs a week and make 400.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I am in the office from 8-5 M, Tu, Th, F with lunch from 12 to 1:15 and W 8-12. I do not do any work (other than q12 phone call) when I am not in the office.

Goals

 

[Splenda88]

I average 50-60 hours a week as a diagnostic radiologist and it feels like I'm swimming in cash. Well, relative to my residency and fellowship paychecks. I'm able to buy a $500 LEGO set whenever I want, so that should tell you enough.

Most docs in the US are swimming in cash if they are not financially stupid...

 

[Splenda88]

FM. I work 36h/week in the office only. 2020 I grossed 310k. It would've been more but my partner retired in July so the first 6 months of the year were slow, plus 2 months where my numbers just tanked due to COVID. Also took 4 weeks off for vacation and another 1-2 for sick kids/long weekends/COVID quarantines.

If I keep the same numbers for this year that I did August-December of last year I should end up between 375-400k for 2021.

How long have you been a doc. What is your net worth?

It seems like most physicians I work with that are in their mid 40s and up are already rich.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Undercover chill is allergy/immuno versus rheum. You just have to choose which type of nightmare patient you have to see a few times a day in clinic. The rest of the patients are incredibly greatful and pleasant in both specialties. And you can say the magic words "please discuss that with your PCP." *Angels singing*

Rheum has more interesting patients though that A/I in my experience.

+1 for A/I. pays pretty darn well (300K+ avg) especially for how chill the hours are and you can see some pretty weird **** sometimes. Many patients end up in an A/I or rheum office when no one knows whats the hell is wrong with them

 

[Deecee2DO]

Anesthesia here. I work 35-40 hrs a week and make 400.

LLFFFGG! Boss

 

[radsisrad]

When I say 40 hours/week, I'm considering that the standard, i.e. not part time, but instead common practice across the board.

Derm
Psych
Ophtho
Plastic surgery

What else am I missing? Any IM subspecialties?

You're wrong about both ophtho and plastic surgery.

 

[FalconSlice]

I'm sorry - and maybe I'm wrong, but I have not met a plastic surgeon on the Earth who works 40 hrs/week. Plastic surgery can and often has horrible hours. They don't have much *call*, *emergencies*, or *overnight* work, but they have very busy clinics, they have their primary cases, and then they have all of their reconstruction stuff (even if its just simple breast) where they're at the mercy of another surgeon and always go second and these cases may not even start until 3-4 in the afternoon after you've already worked a long day that probably started at 6am. I see this as a recurring theme from medical students that plastic surgery lifestyle is easy. Maybe other surgeons can weigh in but that's absolute crazy talk to me. Plastic surgery is tough stuff and those surgeons are steely mofos. They get paid super well and they're super smart and passionate, but they wwwwoooorrrrkkkkk for their pennies.

Agreed... very few plastic surgeons are working only 40 hours/week. I mean I guess it's possible (like maybe an owner of a big long established private practice who can delegate, etc.)... but no, OP, you gotta rethink that.

 

[Splenda88]

+1 for A/I. pays pretty darn well (300K+ avg) especially for how chill the hours are and you can see some pretty weird **** sometimes. Many patients end up in an A/I or rheum office when no one knows whats the hell is wrong with them

Why going thru training for extra 2 yrs when you can make 300k as a FM doc working 4 days (32 hrs)/week? @VA Hopeful Dr

 

[sevo00]

Why going thru training for extra 2 yrs when you can make 300k as a FM doc working 4 days (32 hrs)/week? @VA Hopeful Dr

You do realize that the average fam doc salary is not 300 right? I personally haven’t met any that make that much here I live in a large metropolitan city on the east coast. That’s prob more for FM In Midwest. The ones I know here make 200 working 45-50 hrs a week.

 

[Splenda88]

You do realize that the average fam doc salary is not 300 right? I personally haven’t met any that make that much here I live in a large metropolitan city on the east coast. That’s prob more for FM In Midwest. The ones I know here make 200 working 45-50 hrs a week.

I know... Well, don't live in Miami or Atlanta then.

 

[sevo00]

I know... Well, don't live in Miami or Atlanta then.

some people prefer having fun things to do in their free time. I’d kill myself if I had to live in the Midwest. Plus also some want to live closer to family and grew up in these areas.

 

[Kaputt]

Anesthesia here. I work 35-40 hrs a week and make 400.

cms lurking this thread, found new place for cuts. way to go, man

 

[jambro]

some people prefer having fun things to do in their free time. I’d kill myself if I had to live in the Midwest.

Anytime anyone mentions how sweet their gig is in a non-HCOL area we should just add this comment and lock the thread. it would save so much time. lol

 

[Deecee2DO]

Why going thru training for extra 2 yrs when you can make 300k as a FM doc working 4 days (32 hrs)/week? @VA Hopeful Dr

Because making 300K/yr as an FM doc is not all that common I mean making those figures in FM is certainly possible but at the expense of geographic location. FM docs also do a ****ton of charting and managing DM and HTN all day sounds like a giant yawn to me lol

 

[Frazier]

Palliative medicine
300k
M-F, 8-4, 1 hour lunch. Take a real lunch. Reflect. Unwind. Recharge.
7 weeks PTO, Q6 week call

Relieve suffering for a living.
Patients are grateful.
Magically all consulting docs -- from neurosurgeon to cardiologist -- are pleasant.

Edit: Sometimes work until 5pm if a late consult comes in or running the unit. Can confidently find plenty of offers in your ballpark of 250k.

 

[GadRads]

Read like 5 cases all day on the federal government's dime. Make far less $ than private practice sweatshop radiologists do but laugh at them while you peel out of the VA parking lot in your Camry at 3pm

Clearly haven't seen the Camry TRD. Not a bad ride.

 

[sevo00]

cms lurking this thread, found new place for cuts. way to go, man

right because CMS has nothing better to do then lurk on SDN? Also I’m pretty sure if CMS wants to know how much we get reimbursed they can check the fee schedule lol. I never really understood this notion that we can’t discuss salaries

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You do realize that the average fam doc salary is not 300 right? I personally haven’t met any that make that much here I live in a large metropolitan city on the east coast. That’s prob more for FM In Midwest. The ones I know here make 200 working 45-50 hrs a week.

I live in SC, so not the midwest. I know several FPs on SDN that live on the east coast who do at least that well. I'm also not even in the top 15 of FPs in my group.

Breaking 300k in FM is not that hard, it just takes a few things to line up.

First, you need to make sure you're paid on production. You're not making that much if you're salaried.

Second, you need to be willing to work hard. I see on average 25-28 patients per day to pull this off.

Third, you're not likely to make this in large cities. But you definitely can adjacent to large cities or in smaller cities. Really unlikely in DC, easily doable in Richmond.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Because making 300K/yr as an FM doc is not all that common I mean making those figures in FM is certainly possible but at the expense of geographic location. FM docs also do a ****ton of charting and managing DM and HTN all day sounds like a giant yawn to me lol

Sure, and absolutely no one is saying go into FM for the money.

My point in being here is to say that if you like FM there can be pretty good money in it.

 

[Kaputt]

Clearly haven't seen the Camry TRD. Not a bad ride.

I was a Corolla man all through med school and residency. Believe me, I admire the Camry