Specialities for lazy people wanting relaxed 8-5 job (serious)

[Gadofosveset]

It's PM and R (PM&R), not PMNR.

Thanks, I know what the acronym stands for. Perhaps you should write Toys R Us.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[charmiedermie]

To some extent, what you're looking for doesn't exist. You will inevitably have to compromise something on your list, and which one it is will determine your options. While it's good to be thinking about this stuff now, your list reads like someone with no work experience prior to med school and I think you're missing some really important considerations. You're also smart enough to know that no field can be all of these things all of the time.

So, I would look in to: PM&R, Path, Rads, Gas, Rad-Onc, EM, Family, psych, derm

None of them hit all your points, but then again you left off the most important thing of all:

10) Something where I actually like what I do

Usually like what u say, but disagree here. He's asking that it be like that most of the time, not all of the time. Anyone can enjoy something only doing it 45 hours a week. Just bc one does it 80-90 hrs doesn't mean they enjoy it.

 

[charmiedermie]

Thanks, I know what the acronym stands for. Perhaps you should write Toys R Us.

If u knew what the acronym was, you wouldn't have used N for the pronounciation of the word "and". The N doesn't stand for a word. It's not Physical Medicine and Nuclear Rehabilitation.

 

[Gadofosveset]

If u knew what the acronym was, you wouldn't have used N for the pronounciation of the word "and". The N doesn't stand for a word. It's not Physical Medicine and Nuclear Rehabilitation.

Wow. Who are you.

Native English speakers sometimes substitute "N" for "and" in a jokey or slangy way.

Please google "GNR"

 

[Kahreek]

...

 

[Kahreek]

...

 

[charmiedermie]

Wow. Who are you.

Native English speakers sometimes substitute "N" for "and" in a jokey or slangy way.

Please google "GNR"

I know what slang is. The medical acronym here is not slang. If the goal is to sound uninformed, then go ahead.

http://doccartoon.blogspot.com/2012/12/weekly-whine-pmnr.html?m=1

 

[charmiedermie]

no not TNT

Trinitrotoluene or Turner Network Television?

 

[palatopharyngeus]

Trinitrotoluene or Turner Network Television?

only on SDN. then again, my username is palatopharyngeus, so who am i to judge?

 

[Slack3r]

I know what slang is. The medical acronym here is not slang. If the goal is to sound uninformed, then go ahead.

http://doccartoon.blogspot.com/2012/12/weekly-whine-pmnr.html?m=1

God, you are the worst.

 

[zero0]

Dear SDN,

Stop telling people about psych.

Kthnx.

[Gunner]

 

[qwerty89]

Pretty sure everybody knows about psych since everybody rotates through it. Psych is a unique field which requires a certain personality. If you feel you can thrive in it then definitely do it, but picking it solely for "lifestyle" reasons would easily lead to frustration.

 

[jeffk805dent]

Pretty sure everybody knows about psych since everybody rotates through it. Psych is a unique field which requires a certain personality. If you feel you can thrive in it then definitely do it, but picking it solely for "lifestyle" reasons would easily lead to frustration.

ditto. I will say this too, the people on the psychiatry specialty sub-forum are very helpful and down to earth when it comes to advice from the 3rd/4th years even if its still an internet forum. My friend got a lot of good advice and decided to pursue psych and has loved it ever since.

 

[jw3600]

God, you are the worst.

Seriously.

 

[charmiedermie]

God, you are the worst.

Seriously.

Might want to direct and take heed of those words yourself first.

 

[jw3600]

Might want to direct and take heed of those words yourself first.

wut

 

[DeucesHigh3]

With the exception of mammography in some centers/groups, radiology does not satisfy 1, 2, or 3. No radiology job satisfies 4.
6 and 7 are somewhat misleading.

Please do not consider radiology: radiologists with the OP's goals now spew endlessly on Aunt Minnie (and elsewhere) about how radiology tricked them and now they're forced to be real doctors.

The OP wants PMNR.

Ok, I'll fully admit my post was a bit glib, but overall I don't think Radiology is a bad suggestion.

1. With the OP being 9 years from potentially looking for a job, a lot can change in the field. With some arguing vociferously for the field to return to being a "lifestyle" career, albiet making half as much as the height of the 2000s, it's possible for it to end up checking off many of his/her goals (especially since they're not looking to make tons of money, and didn't mention location as a goal).

2. I don't think it's misleading to say that the residency is tolerable, especially compared to the majority of fields. That said, I haven't done it yet, and I'm relying on residents to tell me so. I suppose the fact remains that most attendings will end up with worse hours than they enjoyed during residency, however.

3. Nobody can realistically say they have been 'tricked' into radiology for at least the last few years, given the doom-and-gloom on AM and the decreasing application numbers. Because of this, other than at the very top end, everyone I've spoken to has gotten considerably better (however you want to judge that metric) interviews than they expected this year.

4. I think it is a good thing to get 1st year students to at least *look* at many of the fields they're not traditionally exposed to, including Radiology.

That said, PM&R might not be a bad suggestion either (except for the wild argument about the acronym it spawned...).

 

[CardiacLion]

I heard surgery and cards are pretty low-key. lol *sarcasm*

 

[Gadofosveset]

Ok, I'll fully admit my post was a bit glib, but overall I don't think Radiology is a bad suggestion.

1. With the OP being 9 years from potentially looking for a job, a lot can change in the field. With some arguing vociferously for the field to return to being a "lifestyle" career, albiet making half as much as the height of the 2000s, it's possible for it to end up checking off many of his/her goals (especially since they're not looking to make tons of money, and didn't mention location as a goal).

2. I don't think it's misleading to say that the residency is tolerable, especially compared to the majority of fields. That said, I haven't done it yet, and I'm relying on residents to tell me so. I suppose the fact remains that most attendings will end up with worse hours than they enjoyed during residency, however.

3. Nobody can realistically say they have been 'tricked' into radiology for at least the last few years, given the doom-and-gloom on AM and the decreasing application numbers. Because of this, other than at the very top end, everyone I've spoken to has gotten considerably better (however you want to judge that metric) interviews than they expected this year.

4. I think it is a good thing to get 1st year students to at least *look* at many of the fields they're not traditionally exposed to, including Radiology.

That said, PM&R might not be a bad suggestion either (except for the wild argument about the acronym it spawned...).

The OP defined himself or herself as "lazy" looking for a "relaxed" job. Radiology has no need for these people. Those people do very poorly both in terms of performance and personal happiness.

1. Volumes are only going to go up in the next nine years. Radiologists are only going to become more integrated into clinical teams. Radiology is moving toward 24 hour service with decreasing teleradiology reliance. The OP's goals are not compatible with the future of radiology.

2. If you count the outside reading and studying (which is not optional), I put in more hours per week as a radiology resident than as an IM intern (with the exception of 4th year)... and you're correct, the workload goes up an attending.

3. People who go into radiology thinking that it will cater to an 8-5, checking-the-email-all-day kind of job are the ones who feel they got "tricked". With a few exceptions, that lifestyle is gone.

4. Agree, but one cannot get a good feel for radiology or the radiology life by shadowing a radiologist.

Don't get me wrong, I love my job, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. But I also like the challenge of reading quickly and accurately, and I don't mind taking the extra steps to make sure patients' imaging is taken care of... which is not infrequently before 8 or after 5. It's not as much work as surgery, and it has different a different kind of stress than something like EM or an IM speciality, but rads has its own type of stress and requires effort to be decent.

 

[tco]

I'm super surprised that radiology hasn't been mentioned more in this thread. It hits almost all of your bullets, except for 4 and (maybe) 8.

1. Consistent 8-5 job, pretty much.
2. Done once you clock out.
3. Nights/Weekends are yours, unless you’re on the call schedule. The frequency of this will depend on the hospital or group.
4. >>Workdays will NOT be relaxed, but you can work at your own pace within limits. If it takes you longer to plow through cases, you might have to stay a few more hours at the end of the day, but the impression I have is that fresh attendings are the most likely to do this while getting up to speed.
5. You’ll be talking and interacting with your professional colleagues. In addition, you'll be talking to patients in IR, mammo, fluoro, and MSK (joint injections), for what it's worth.
6. It’s not super-competitive at all. Last year it was (one of?) the least competitive.
7. Residency is tolerable: pretty much everywhere is 7:30 or 8am to 5pm, plus maybe some short call or weekend shifts. Night float months are a bit longer.
8. >>Outlook is a concern, but already things are getting better than they were a year or two ago. Realistically, nobody needs to do 2 fellowships. The very few who do, are trying to stay in a very competitive location.
9. Salary remains good, though people are working a lot harder to keep it that way.
10. It’s not pathology!

It's not 2000 anymore. @shark2000 might want to chime in his 0.02 here.

 

[michaelrack]

Law2Doc, the psych attendings you see on the call schedule are... the ones who take call. For all you know there could be (and almost certainly are) numerous additional psychiatrists in your immediate area that do NOT take any kind of inpatient or consultation/liaison call. You might be very insistent that no purely 8-5 gigs exist in psychiatry, but I'll tell you as someone with family members in the field as well as friends in psychiatry programs, that those gigs DO exist and that they're not particularly unusual. Most outpatient psychiatrists have zero inpatient pysch component. The facilities in every area I've been in have their own inpatient guys, and if one of your patients gets admitted, they take care of them. Much like in internal medicine, the inpatient and outpatient work is becoming ever more compartmentalized.

You can get hospital privileges to see consults if you want... or not. There's more than enough outpatient PP work that you could in many, hell probably in the majority of cases.

It's the only specialty that comes to mind that could meet all of the OP's "requirements", and your insistence otherwise is just purely showing ignorance of the feeling.

Agree with this.

I cover a 30-bed community hospital psych ward 2 weekends a month through a locum tenens agency. I don't have to come in in the middle of the night to admit a patient- I discuss the case with the ER doc and one of us can institute a 72 hour hold if necessary. I have to come in (briefly) less than 10% of nights I am on call- to sign a restraint/seclusion order, see someone who has medically deteriorated before calling the IM hospitalist ( coming in isn't absolutely necessary for this), or rarely to figure out how to calm down an agitated patient not responding to the usual drugs.
Of course, rounding (including admissions/discharges) on a 30 bed unit often takes 10-13 hours per weekend day.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

I'm super surprised that radiology hasn't been mentioned more in this thread. It hits almost all of your bullets, except for 4 and (maybe) 8.

1. Consistent 8-5 job, pretty much.
2. Done once you clock out.
3. Nights/Weekends are yours, unless you’re on the call schedule. The frequency of this will depend on the hospital or group.
4. >>Workdays will NOT be relaxed, but you can work at your own pace within limits. If it takes you longer to plow through cases, you might have to stay a few more hours at the end of the day, but the impression I have is that fresh attendings are the most likely to do this while getting up to speed.
5. You’ll be talking and interacting with your professional colleagues. In addition, you'll be talking to patients in IR, mammo, fluoro, and MSK (joint injections), for what it's worth.
6. It’s not super-competitive at all. Last year it was (one of?) the least competitive.
7. Residency is tolerable: pretty much everywhere is 7:30 or 8am to 5pm, plus maybe some short call or weekend shifts. Night float months are a bit longer.
8. >>Outlook is a concern, but already things are getting better than they were a year or two ago. Realistically, nobody needs to do 2 fellowships. The very few who do, are trying to stay in a very competitive location.
9. Salary remains good, though people are working a lot harder to keep it that way.
10. It’s not pathology!

@shark2000 will let you know how rads really is

 

[tco]

@shark2000 will let you know how rads really is

I think he's like Beetlejuice, as you you have to say his name three times before he appears.

 

[drkristy85]

Walgreen's/CVS minute clinic. BOOM. You're welcome

does minute clinic even hire MD's? I thought they just hired nurse practitioners because its cheaper....anyone know of physicians working at minute clinic?

 

[doctorjunior]

does minute clinic even hire MD's? I thought they just hired nurse practitioners because its cheaper....anyone know of physicians working at minute clinic?

They only hire NPs, at least the ones in my area. But since they're national chains I would assume it's largely the same.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Where are you getting this? I'm at least talking on the basis of doing several psych rotations (including two months at community hospitals and one outpatient experience) and matching into psych. Where are you getting your information? I'm really curious as I've never known this to be the case.

The inpatient psych wards I'm familiar with either have residents working overnight or NPs. I have yet to see an attending in private practice come in to admit a patient in the middle of the night.

As someone who worked (albeit as a nurse) at a stand alone Psych facility (both inpatient and out). The Attending NEVER came in during the night shift. We would call em to let them know someone was coming, and if they were agreeable we would say something along the lines of 'if its not unique do you want us to just admit them with the standard orders?" And they always said yes. So yeah, they had call, maybe a couple a night at most, but not crazy. And they never set foot in the place outside of business hours.

 

[SClENCE]

Open a suboxone clinic. Lol

 

[NontradCA]

Pediatric Neurosurgery.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Dear SDN,

Stop telling people about psych.

Kthnx.

[Gunner]

Psych rotation turns way more students off than you would otherwise think. Psych will pretty much never be competitive unless it pays truly astoundingly. Remember, 100% of all medical students will do a psych rotation. Around 2-5% will actually chose psych as a field. It's just not very attractive to the vast majority of students.

 

[zero0]

Psych rotation turns way more students off than you would otherwise think. Psych will pretty much never be competitive unless it pays truly astoundingly. Remember, 100% of all medical students will do a psych rotation. Around 2-5% will actually chose psych as a field. It's just not very attractive to the vast majority of students.

That's the spirit

 

[PL198]

That's the spirit

?
if psych was some holy-land of perfection, then everyone would want to do it(derm)

 

[Mass Effect]

?
if psych was some holy-land of perfection, then everyone would want to do it(derm)

No one here said that it was a holy-land of perfection. We said that it meets all the OP's requirements, which, after all, is what this thread is about. There's no one specialty that attracts everyone. Personally, you couldn't pay me enough to entertain the thought of doing derm, any surgical field, or general internal medicine. But I like psych because I like the patient population AND it's a great field for lifestyle. For some, lifestyle counts more than anything else.

 

[Dharma]

Thinking that psych is for the lazy or a guaranteed means to a laid-back lifestyle? If that's so, you may find yourself walking the path of misery. Psych is for those whose primary motivation is a passion for treating those with mental illness.

 

[Dharma]

...picking it solely for "lifestyle" reasons would easily lead to frustration.

… or worse...

 

[Psai]

Thinking that psych is for the lazy or a guaranteed means to a laid-back lifestyle? If that's so, you may find yourself walking the path of misery. Psych is for those whose primary motivation is a passion for treating those with mental illness.

what i thought of psych before and after taking the rotation were two completely different things
people talk **** about family med and psych in 1st year and i actually liked family medicine a lot. i also have a ton of respect for psychiatrists, they deal with a lot of bs from patients, families and other doctors

 

[BorntobeDO?]

The OP says he likes talking to people, taking his time, and getting weekends off. Psych does check those boxes rather well most of the time. You don't bring work home either. Yes you have to be interested in PEOPLE to do psych, but I think the OP has already met that requirement. He should check it out, its not nearly as unbearable as people make it sound.

Psych is a lot more than just schizophrenics or antisocial disorder. I think if you have an interest in helping the downtrodden it can be quite rewarding.

 

[Dharma]

The OP says he likes talking to people, taking his time, and getting weekends off. Psych does check those boxes rather well most of the time. You dont bring work home either. Yes you have to be interested in PEOPLE to do psych, but I think the OP has already met that requirement. He should check it out, its not nearly as unbearble as people make it sound.

Psych is a lot moe than just schizophrenics or antisocial disorder. I think if you have an interest in helping the downtrodden it can be quite rewarding.

On the inpatient wards, different story… cluster A, B, C all over the place and plenty of A at that.

Liking people is nowhere near enough. And you DO take your work home with you… just not in the way you may think. That said, yeah, he should check it out. But we all HAVE to. Required clerkship.

 

[Dharma]

what i thought of psych before and after taking the rotation were two completely different things
people talk **** about family med and psych in 1st year and i actually liked family medicine a lot. i also have a ton of respect for psychiatrists, they deal with a lot of bs from patients, families and other doctors

+ social work (e.g. finding placement, helping extending utility bill deadlines), law enforcement (e.g parole/probation officers), lawyers (e.g hearings, court, 303's, 304's, etc)… and these play a significant role during one's day, not just a here and there kind of thing, but rather quite regularly. So, a lot of stuff outside of what one may see as being within the realm of medicine. Yes, there is ancillary staff to help with this things, but the psychiatrist is very much involved, often at the lead and doing some of the dirty work him/herself.

It's not a lifestyle speciality… unless you have some passion for it. Just tolerating it, won't be enough.

 

[zero0]

In all seriousness though, psych has its downsides like any specialty and the patient base really takes a certain kind of person with a genuine interest in that area of medicine. As far as the OP is concerned, I wouldn't recommend going into it purely for superficial reasons. If it interests you though, by all means. Do a few rotations, get a feel for it, and go from there, but remember that inpatient and outpatient are two drastically different settings so don't let that turn you off.

 

[Winged Scapula]

It's not a lifestyle speciality… unless you have some passion for it. Just tolerating it, won't be enough.

Most people would define "lifestyle" specialty as one with good hours, weekends off, decent pay and little to no call. PP psych can definitely fit the bill. So can other types of practices, including other psych options.

It has nothing to do with whether you like your work or what you do during your work hours. By your definition, my surgical field must be a lifestyle specialty because I enjoy it.

Now if you want to argue that the OP only pursue Psych if he likes it, that's good advice regardless of specialty. But you don't get to claim that Psych is not a lifestyle specialty because you have to talk to case managers, lawyers etc.

 

[Dharma]

Most people would define "lifestyle" specialty as one with good hours, weekends off, decent pay and little to no call. PP psych can definitely fit the bill. So can other types of practices, including other psych options.

It has nothing to do with whether you like your work or what you do during your work hours. By your definition, my surgical field must be a lifestyle specialty because I enjoy it.

Now if you want to argue that the OP only pursue Psych if he likes it, that's good advice regardless of specialty. But you don't get to claim that Psych is not a lifestyle specialty because you have to talk to case managers, lawyers etc.

Open to interpretation. Happiness IS lifestyle from this angle. Inseparable.

 

[PL198]

Open to interpretation. Happiness IS lifestyle from this angle. Inseparable.

I mean most surgery residents are obsessed with surgery and head over heels in love with it, but I wouldn't say they have a good lifestyle. Like I remember seeing the ortho residents' faces light up when they came in to cadaver lab, but I'm still saying those dudes' lifestyles suck

 

[Dharma]

I mean most surgery residents are obsessed with surgery and head over heels in love with it, but I wouldn't say they have a good lifestyle. Like I remember seeing the ortho residents' faces light up when they came in to cadaver lab, but I'm still saying those dudes' lifestyles suck

I agree. Happiness is a big part of lifestyle (IMO, not according to someone else's definition). Its presence isn't necessarily indicative of this subjective thing called lifestyle but it's absence negates many of the positive attributes one seeks when choosing based on the lifestyle factor.

Dreading one's job on a daily basis and watching the clock ain't exactly lifestyle either. It certainly carries over beyond the 9-5. If you think otherwise you likely never held that kind of job for any significant period of time. This ain't my first rodeo.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Open to interpretation. Happiness IS lifestyle from this angle. Inseparable.

Definitely open to interpretation but I would venture that your interpretation is one that represents a very small minority.

Most of my surgical colleagues are very happy with our choice of field but no one would say it's a lifestyle specialty.

 

[Slack3r]

+ social work (e.g. finding placement, helping extending utility bill deadlines), law enforcement (e.g parole/probation officers), lawyers (e.g hearings, court, 303's, 304's, etc)… and these play a significant role during one's day, not just a here and there kind of thing, but rather quite regularly. So, a lot of stuff outside of what one may see as being within the realm of medicine. Yes, there is ancillary staff to help with this things, but the psychiatrist is very much involved, often at the lead and doing some of the dirty work him/herself.

It's not a lifestyle speciality… unless you have some passion for it. Just tolerating it, won't be enough.

Let's be honest though, I bet most people gunning for psych are aiming for those cash-pay purely outpatient gigs.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I mean most surgery residents are obsessed with surgery and head over heels in love with it, but I wouldn't say they have a good lifestyle. Like I remember seeing the ortho residents' faces light up when they came in to cadaver lab, but I'm still saying those dudes' lifestyles suck

After working at a level 1 trauma ortho residency, I completely agree. I mean those guys got excited when they were running 3 fliprooms on the weekend and they jammed 15+ ortho cases in a day. I worked a lot of weekends back then (every other) and the same ortho guys would be there every time going crazy, they loved the weekends cause it was like the whole OR was theirs. Takes a special kind of person to want to do that every weekend, and its not me. On a related note :

 

[HaitianDrSoph]

After working at a level 1 trauma ortho residency, I completely agree. I mean those guys got excited when they were running 3 fliprooms on the weekend and they jammed 15+ orthro cases in a day. I worked a lot of weekends back then (every other) and the same ortho guys would be there every time going crazy, they loved the weekends cause it was like the whole OR was theirs. Takes a special kind of person to want to do that every weekend, and its not me. On a related note :

Lmao I love the video!

 

[BorntobeDO?]

+ social work (e.g. finding placement, helping extending utility bill deadlines), law enforcement (e.g parole/probation officers), lawyers (e.g hearings, court, 303's, 304's, etc)… and these play a significant role during one's day, not just a here and there kind of thing, but rather quite regularly. So, a lot of stuff outside of what one may see as being within the realm of medicine. Yes, there is ancillary staff to help with this things, but the psychiatrist is very much involved, often at the lead and doing some of the dirty work him/herself.

It's not a lifestyle speciality… unless you have some passion for it. Just tolerating it, won't be enough.

You as a physician wont be hitting the pavement finding placement, you have a social worker, you consult, they find, you sign (and maybe call).
Extending utility bill deadlines, really? Alright lets just roll with this, once again sounds like a social workers/nurses role, not a physician. Yes, a physician might have to sign a note, but I have never seen an attending call a utility company.
Yes there is court to do, after all most states have their version of a 72 hour hold (in florida its the Baker act). But come on, the judge comes to the psych center (at both places I worked) and then you do a little testimony on why the baker act should be extended or not. Just not a huge deal IMO.

So yeah I agree with you partitally, but I think your blowing up the inpatient psych attending role bigger than it really is.

 

[Dharma]

Let's be honest though, I bet most people gunning for psych are aiming for those cash-pay purely outpatient gigs.

I'm not sure about that. Not much gunning there either.

 

[Dharma]

You as a physician wont be hitting the pavement finding placement, you have a social worker, you consult, they find, you sign (and maybe call).
Extending utility bill deadlines, really? Alright lets just roll with this, once again sounds like a social workers/nurses role, not a physician. Yes, a physician might have to sign a note, but I have never seen an attending call a utility company.
Yes their is court to do, after all most states have their version of a 72 hour hold (in florida its the Baker act). But come on, the judge comes to the psych center (at both places I worked) and then you do a little testimony on why the baker act should be extended or not. Just not a huge deal IMO.

So yeah I agree with you partitally, but I think your blowing up the inpatient psych attending role bigger than it really is.

Maybe. Just describing what I've seen.