Sorry, another "what are my chances?"

[navrdd]

I'm a fourth year student at a top 25 school. Currently applying to another residency but having serious doubts about my future in said specialty. I basically want to know if I have a shot at ENT for the next year's cycle.

Step 1 255, step 2 pending
Pass/fail preclinical - all passes
Honors in medicine and emergency medicine, HP in all other required clerkships
1 abstract at national conference in different specialty
Good extracurriculars with significant leadership positions

If I spend the time until next cycle doing research and hopefully getting some papers, do I have a good shot?

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[navrdd]

Also, does applying after graduation place me at a big disadvantage, is it looked upon the same as not matching on the first try?

 

[neutropeniaboy]

Good school.

Good preclinical grades.

Average to below average clinical grades.

Excellent Step 1.

Average to below average research.

How many interviews do you have?

I'd say it's going to come down to the interview and the away rotations - if you did any.

If you don't make it, it will be extremely hard to do so after graduation.


PS: read the sticky.

 

[navrdd]

Thanks for the reply. I'm not applying to ENT this year but am seriously considering dropping out of the match for a different specialty this round. My plan would be to do research for about 4-5 mo, hopefully get some pubs and then apply for next year. My question would be, do you think I have a good chance next year with the extra research? I don't want to not match this year, take a research year, and then not match into ENT next year.

 

[neutropeniaboy]

In all likelihood you will not ever match (for ENT) if you don't match when you are applying as a 4th year student. If you don't apply as a 4th year and then apply after graduation, it's still unlikely that you will match.

Plain and simple.

 

[Leforte]

Neutropeniaboy - what do you think if the OP delayed graduation and extended into a 5th year with research starting in Jan 2014 until Dec 2014 and then resume 4th year in 13 months? Might be a good alternative - this would also help delay repayment of student loans, etc.

That being said, I think that if the OP did that, they should ensure they get with a mentor/PI who has several projects, namely clinical, that can be achieved in that time frame with something submitted within a few months of starting.

It is a big gamble, but as NP boy correctly states, once you are out of medical school the likelihood of matching into ENT approaches zero very quickly.

As for your worries about not matching next year if you choose to delay graduation - unfortunately, that is the chance you take. ENT is becoming even more incredibly difficult to match into. The numbers applying this year continue to increase. There will be many applicants with similar numbers and significantly more research who will not match this year.

 

[DrBodacious]

I would meet with the ENT program director and or chairman at your school.

Getting a good step 1 and honoring medicine are good accomplishments, but they don't make ENT programs drool over you. To match in to ENT you have to show dedication. That means not doing a half-assed 4 month research resume booster in your off year. What else were you planning on doing next year besides applying and 4-5 most of research? I would consider doing full time research. The challenge would be finding a good mentor/PI who you could start working with ASAP, and you may need to consider going to another location.

Your ENT faculty may be able to get a sense of your personality, dedication and other intangibles to see if you would have an above average chance of getting a spot after 4th yr.

If you do a preliminary year it would be tough to get much research done. But, you would be available to have a small chance to get a spot outside the match, if one comes up.

Another way to look at you situation is that it doesn't sound like you have burned any bridges (ie tanked step 1, no honor rotations) but you don't have good research yet, and the fact you are a (very) late decider is a significant red flag.

Delaying graduation with research so you can apply as a senior would be the best route, IMO. NPB might not fight to put you high on the rank list at his program but I think you have a good opportunity to go in ENT if you want to.

 

[neutropeniaboy]

Well, I agree with you two, actually. If you delayed graduation specifically to do research, that would be perceived as being something different. A lot of people do this, actually. It shows dedication.

It may seem subtle to the OP, but this is different from graduating and then doing research. The latter may have a good chance of matching at the institution where you do research, but harder elsewhere.

 

[Crash88]

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[neutropeniaboy]

Why is ENT so much more competitive all of a sudden? Have we had a freak 2 years or something in terms of competitiveness? I know it's always been difficult to get into, but now it almost sounds like we're matching into integrated plastics.

Perfect balance of Surgery and Medicine. Many subspecialties to cater to your interest. Great lifestyle. Usually elective surgeries and relatively few (and infrequent) truly emergent cases. For the moment, stable reimbursements and wRVUs. Many academic and PP opportunities. It's a field with much of its basic science wide open for discovery and a field that utilizes a lot of great new technologies.

And in one word: "drills!"

 

[Wordead]

Perfect balance of Surgery and Medicine. Many subspecialties to cater to your interest. Great lifestyle. Usually elective surgeries and relatively few (and infrequent) truly emergent cases. For the moment, stable reimbursements and wRVUs. Many academic and PP opportunities. It's a field with much of its basic science wide open for discovery and a field that utilizes a lot of great new technologies.

And in one word: "drills!"

Do you have any idea if match rates have dropped significantly since the last NRMP report 2-3 years ago?

 

[VisionaryTics]

Why is ENT so much more competitive all of a sudden? Have we had a freak 2 years or something in terms of competitiveness? I know it's always been difficult to get into, but now it almost sounds like we're matching into integrated plastics.

My experience on the interview trail this year has been eye opening. The applicants I'm meeting are consistently "rock stars". With the recent drop in match rates and the horror stories I'm hearing from other applicants, I think ENT is rapidly approaching plastics for competitiveness.

I think the age of a 240 Step 1 plus mostly honors/HP and a poster nabbing you a good number of interviews is over. The academic attendings can correct me if I'm wrong. Just speaking from my experience and my conversations with other applicants.

 

[navrdd]

Thank you everyone for the replies/advice, I appreciate them.

It looks like I won't be able to take a research year now, especially if I want to do away rotations before the next cycle. I'm curious though about why there is such a big difference between taking the research year before graduating med school and doing a year long research fellowship after graduation. It seems like they both accomplish the same thing, just on a slightly different time scale. With the way my spring semester is set up, I only have 1 required surgery sub-I, I can use the other months for aways and research.

Should I really try to do the research year now and delay graduation at the expense of aways?

 

[Daodejing]

I realize this can be highly subjective, but kind of in the same vein, how much value would an md/phd add to an applicant's profile, particularly if the phd encompasses ENT-specific research? To my understanding, some fields like radonc highly value the phd. I was wondering if ENT is becoming similar.

 

[VisionaryTics]

Thank you everyone for the replies/advice, I appreciate them.

It looks like I won't be able to take a research year now, especially if I want to do away rotations before the next cycle. I'm curious though about why there is such a big difference between taking the research year before graduating med school and doing a year long research fellowship after graduation. It seems like they both accomplish the same thing, just on a slightly different time scale.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one makes it look like you've got your **** together (an attractive quality in future residents) and one makes it look like you were caught with your pants down and scrambled to do something.

 

[OtoHNS]

From what I've seen, it does appear that ENT has become significantly more competitive than even 5 years ago. I was visiting my residency program (graduated in 2010) several months ago and heard that they had received over 400 apps for 2 spots! The usual number was around 200 when I was there (which is still a bit absurd).

 

[DrBodacious]

Thank you everyone for the replies/advice, I appreciate them.

It looks like I won't be able to take a research year now, especially if I want to do away rotations before the next cycle. I'm curious though about why there is such a big difference between taking the research year before graduating med school and doing a year long research fellowship after graduation. It seems like they both accomplish the same thing, just on a slightly different time scale. With the way my spring semester is set up, I only have 1 required surgery sub-I, I can use the other months for aways and research.

Should I really try to do the research year now and delay graduation at the expense of aways?

The way you can justify not matching this year is that you are a late decider. If you do well on aways, and are well liked by a program, they may rank you highly on that basis, but those are tough odds. (Refer to NPBs post on away rotations). With a competitive applicant pool, faculty can be quick to notice reasons why you shouldn't be ranked 1, 2 or 3. And with everyone applying so broadly, you will likely get screened out of several interviews despite your board score. You need to overcome this with a very solid research experience that says to people that, "This guy is obviously are a rock star candidate, he is just a late decider and he has things figured out now." Frankly, even if you wow everyone on an away this spring, I would expect people to be very interested /concerned about what your plans are in your off year, and then following up on what you are doing come interview time.

The path of least resistance for programs in the match process is to just take the cream of the crop from the senior class.

 

[Daodejing]

I realize this can be highly subjective, but kind of in the same vein, how much value would an md/phd add to an applicant's profile, particularly if the phd encompasses ENT-specific research? To my understanding, some fields like radonc highly value the phd. I was wondering if ENT is becoming similar.

bump, in case this was skipped over. thoughts?

 

[OtoHNS]

bump, in case this was skipped over. thoughts?

Phd is very highly valued, especially at big name programs.

 

[Leforte]

True a PhD is valued, but that is assuming the applicant has done well in all other aspects of their application. In general, it does not make up for a poor Step I, clerkship grades or LORs.