Somnia?

[TobyTheDog]

Hey everyone,

I am considering a change in jobs and there is a position with Somnia that is available with a decent salary but there are several things that are concerning with their offer. After doing a quick search through the archives here, they do not appear to have a favorable reputation, especially out west, but those posts are all several years old.

To be brief, it is hard to get a clear answer on daily expectations/hours, call obligations, call frequency, supervision ratios, or noncompete limitations. Obviously these are big red flags.

Does anyone have any recent experience with them? Is this common with AMCs?

Thanks!

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[gunnershow]

I can't help you but personally, if an employer refuses to clarify the most basic aspects of the job itself, I would assume the worst and look elsewhere.

 

[triggermaster]

Hey everyone,

I am considering a change in jobs and there is a position with Somnia that is available with a decent salary but there are several things that are concerning with their offer. After doing a quick search through the archives here, they do not appear to have a favorable reputation, especially out west, but those posts are all several years old.

To be brief, it is hard to get a clear answer on daily expectations/hours, call obligations, call frequency, supervision ratios, or noncompete limitations. Obviously these are big red flags.

Does anyone have any recent experience with them? Is this common with AMCs?

Thanks!

WWCD?
What would a crna do? Take a job with a fixed salary and unlimited call and hours? 😂

 

[POW16]

Keep looking.

 

[DirtDocMD]

I’ve been doing this for two decades. Doesn’t seem to matter where you are, within 6 months either the group or the hospital or the surgeons are trying to push for later hours, more call, and more weekends.

Rule of thumb should be——if it doesn’t sound VERY comfortable or VERY well-paying to begin with, you WILL end up disappointed.

It’s hard with many jobs to get paid “by the hour”, but there’s a reason why so many folks mention it, here. It is VERY easy to get abused if you’re on “salary”. The HOSPITAL pockets money when you run their OR’s later, the AMC pockets money if you work later, and the SURGEONS are making money, too. If YOU are working later, you should be getting something, as well.

If it’s a job “down the street” from where you are, now, it might be worth the risk. DO NOT move your family to some other location for something like this.

 

[UscGhost]

It's always going to be site specific. Who owns the contract is generally meaningless in the short term and long term these days.

Judge it based off the details of the specific site (call, case type, wages, staff stability, only locums there or lots of FT staff,etc)

 

[cchoukal]

The salary is meaningless without those other details. It’s like having a numerator without the denominator. If they’re being cagey while trying to recruit you, imagine how they’ll be once the know they have you under contract.

 

[Shimmy8]

Where is this job?

 

[nimbus]

To be brief, it is hard to get a clear answer on daily expectations/hours, call obligations, call frequency, supervision ratios, or noncompete limitations. Obviously these are big red flags.

Were you asking a recruiter or an anesthesiologist at the site? If it was a recruiter, they may sincerely have no idea.


In my own job, even though a typical week might be 40-45hrs, it can range from 30-60hrs. My days can range from 0-3hrs to 14-16hrs.

 

[Maverikk]

Say yeah that sounds great! And just wait to see the contract, it’s the only thing that matters in this situation is what’s in writing. I interviewed with a hospital that had been dumped by an AMC, they tried to start their own group. I was enthusiastic about choosing my FTE, supervising..assured me verbally 1 FTE was 45 hrs/week. I was offered the job, very non-descript contract, had a family friend lawyer put in a few provisions: FTE hours, overtime hours, overtime call. Hospital said no way, went with another PP group that last I heard is bleeding money on locums while the full time peeps relieve crnas.
The only thing that matters is what’s in writing and also what’s not in writing

 

[TobyTheDog]

Were you asking a recruiter or an anesthesiologist at the site? If it was a recruiter, they may sincerely have no idea.


In my own job, even though a typical week might be 40-45hrs, it can range from 30-60hrs. My days can range from 0-3hrs to 14-16hrs.

This was talking directly to folks at Somnia, not a random headhunter. Lots of question marks on the aforementioned topics.

While it's understandable that there could be some wiggle room on some of the expectations like number of hours per week, not having the call framework clearly outlined is certainly concerning.

 

[nimbus]

This was talking directly to folks at Somnia, not a random headhunter. Lots of question marks on the aforementioned topics.

Were they actually anesthesiologists or someone who works in the recruiting office? Our office staff have never stepped foot in a hospital and have no idea what our day to day routines are like. It’s not their job.

I think you’ll get the answer to your questions if you can get contact information of several anesthesiologists who actually work at that hospital and speak to them directly.

 

[TobyTheDog]

Were they actually anesthesiologists or someone who works in the recruiting office? Our office staff have never stepped foot in a hospital and have no idea what our day to day routines are like. It’s not their job.

I think you’ll get the answer to your questions if you can get contact information of several anesthesiologists who actually work at that hospital and speak to them directly.

I was informed that this is a new gig for them so I don't think they have anyone at this site just yet. I have spoken to anesthesiologists within their organization who plan to get things up and running but have no answers on exactly how it's going to go or what new docs to the area can expect regarding the things i mentioned in the original post. They are recruiting all over gaswork but it appears they have a shortage of manpower at multiple sites across the country.

I think it would give anyone pause not having these points nailed down and of course it wouldn't be worth uprooting for something so vague unless it all was ironed out.

The main purpose of the post was to see if anyone could shed light on their more current experience with the organization. Also, it would be beneficial to see if previous sentiments were still held or if things had improved. There are several recent discussions about NAPA and USAP so I figured this is the place to ask and appreciate anyone willing to answer.

 

[nimbus]

I was informed that this is a new gig for them so I don't think they have anyone at this site just yet. I have spoken to anesthesiologists within their organization who plan to get things up and running but have no answers on exactly how it's going to go or what new docs to the area can expect regarding the things i mentioned in the original post. They are recruiting all over gaswork but it appears they have a shortage of manpower at multiple sites across the country.

I think it would give anyone pause not having these points nailed down and of course it wouldn't be worth uprooting for something so vague unless it all was ironed out.

The main purpose of the post was to see if anyone could shed light on their more current experience with the organization. Also, it would be beneficial to see if previous sentiments were still held or if things had improved. There are several recent discussions about NAPA and USAP so I figured this is the place to ask and appreciate anyone willing to answer.

Ahhh that makes more sense. Kudos to them for not answering questions they cannot answer. That shows they have some integrity.

The folks you spoke with don’t actually know what it will look like either because it depends on how successfully they can recruit. It’s nice that they are being straight with you and aren’t selling you an optimistic bag of lies. Even a well established group can’t guarantee set hours or lifestyle. It all depends on case volume and staffing levels. Both are guaranteed to fluctuate. I’ve been with the same group working in the same hospital for over 20 years and we’ve cycled through good times and bad. For a new group at a facility that is not yet fully staffed to make promises would be foolish. Unpredictability is built in to all new ventures. You would be walking into a black box. At this point, nobody actually knows the answer to your questions about work hours/call frequency/supervision ratios/etc. In this scenario I would ask for hourly or productivity pay with a guaranteed minimum so if you end up working like a mule, at least you’ll be paid for it.

As @amyl repeatedly pointed out in the USAP thread, even within the same greater organization, things can be run very differently on the local level.

Every time we change jobs we take a risk. I don’t blame you for trying to gather as much information as possible, I would do the same. But you’ll find the real truth only after you’ve worked somewhere for a while. Good luck.

 

[aneftp]

AMCs when they take over any contract these days demand (and get)
1. Keep 100% billing collections
Plus
2. Hospitals pays for 100% of ALL LOCUMS COST IF SHORT STAFFING FOR X PERIOD OF TIME. This period of time can be as short as 6 months up to 3 years.

With Somnia. Traditionally they run extremely short staff.

The key is to have it in your contract if short staff and if hour average more than 45 hours PER WEEK (not an average of 2 weeks or 4 weeks) you must get compensated extra.

Do not sign anything until you have something in writing. If they are hesitant in putting it into the contract. Than demand extra weeks of paid vacation. That’s the only way to protect yourself. By extra. I mean if they are offering 10’weeks paid time. Ask for 15 weeks paid time. Only way to protect urself.

 

[gator2886]

They do not know what it is going to look like for the docs that sign up because they do not know how many will sign up. What they KNOW is how much they can pay you for extra work and call. Get in writing and trust NOTHING verbal....Let me guess, Memphis?

 

[DirtDocMD]

AMCs when they take over any contract these days demand (and get)
1. Keep 100% billing collections
Plus
2. Hospitals pays for 100% of ALL LOCUMS COST IF SHORT STAFFING FOR X PERIOD OF TIME. This period of time can be as short as 6 months up to 3 years.

With Somnia. Traditionally they run extremely short staff.

The key is to have it in your contract if short staff and if hour average more than 45 hours PER WEEK (not an average of 2 weeks or 4 weeks) you must get compensated extra.

Do not sign anything until you have something in writing. If they are hesitant in putting it into the contract. Than demand extra weeks of paid vacation. That’s the only way to protect yourself. By extra. I mean if they are offering 10’weeks paid time. Ask for 15 weeks paid time. Only way to protect urself.

What Aneftp is telling you is on the money. What these “New” AMC jobs look like for the first 1-2 years can be DRASTICALLY different than what they look like, later. As he says, the HOSPITAL pays for the locums in the early stages, but later, those costs will fall on the AMC.

One of the “cushiest” jobs I ever had, was with a small regional AMC (that is now an ugly monster), that had just taken over a contract at a small community hospital. For the first two years, it was GREAT. Literally TRIPPING over locums staff. They were EVERYWHERE, because the HOSPITAL was paying for it.

At the end of two years, there was a big “Come to Jesus” meeting, and the place was never the same. The AMC went out of their way to squeeze any kind of labor they could out of us Docs, because it was money they could pocket/not have to spend out of THEIR pocket on locums.

If they can’t recruit folks fast (including locums), that Somnia job may not even START as a good position, it may ALWAYS be misery. Get that language for anything above 45-50 hours that Aneftp mentions, or they could really abuse you. If they won’t, look into a long-term locums gig with them, or a strictly 40 hrs/week gig.

Like I said, being a new place for them MIGHT make it a good gig for the first couple of years (MIGHT!), but it could easily go bad after the “transition” period runs out (and they MAY demand a change in YOUR contract, as well, even if you initially get those “guardrails” in it). Be cautious with this job, ESPECIALLY if it involves you/family pulling up stakes to move…

 

[caligas]

Link us the gaswork ad, we’ll break it down for you

 

[ryanjmy]

Do a week of locums there. That will answer a lot of your questions. Date them before marrying.

 

[aneftp]

Do a week of locums there. That will answer a lot of your questions. Date them before marrying.

Doing locums vs taking full time job with at same facility is different. When I do locums. Even though I know the gig is pretty easy as locums but the full timers think it’s hard.

So it’s different in that way. Because pay structure is different as locums and locums u get to pick when u work. Not forced to work certain days and weekends

 

[TobyTheDog]

GasWork.com - Reference #445497

Reference #445497

www.gaswork.com

There are call obligations on this ad but if they are low on docs I can't help but think there would be a higher frequency, especially if they could not spell things out when a discussion was had. Also, the retirement package is pretty anemic (401(k) up to $3,450 match| Flexible spending accounts).

Again, the main point of the original post was to see if anyone currently working under Somnia could provide insight into their experience, good/bad/ugly. Looking through older posts here has not proven to be reassuring.

 

[sbmed100]

GasWork.com - Reference #445497

Reference #445497

www.gaswork.com

There are call obligations on this ad but if they are low on docs I can't help but think there would be a higher frequency, especially if they could not spell things out when a discussion was had. Also, the retirement package is pretty anemic (401(k) up to $3,450 match| Flexible spending accounts).

Again, the main point of the original post was to see if anyone currently working under Somnia could provide insight into their experience, good/bad/ugly. Looking through older posts here has not proven to be reassuring.

You have to remember this is SDN. Everyone deserves seven figures and 25 weeks of vacation. No AMC is good enough, academics doesn't pay enough, private practice can't be trusted with any buy-in, everyone wants fairness and transparency -but not if there's work or god forbid call involved.

The reality is jobs are very site specific and local leadership is key. Asking here may hold some value (benefits offered across the company for example), but you really must visit and speak to the people actually working at a specific site.

 

[nimbus]

GasWork.com - Reference #445497

Reference #445497

www.gaswork.com

There are call obligations on this ad but if they are low on docs I can't help but think there would be a higher frequency, especially if they could not spell things out when a discussion was had. Also, the retirement package is pretty anemic (401(k) up to $3,450 match| Flexible spending accounts).

Again, the main point of the original post was to see if anyone currently working under Somnia could provide insight into their experience, good/bad/ugly. Looking through older posts here has not proven to be reassuring.

They’re trying to staff 5 facilities and 40000 annual cases as a new venture? It will be very challenging. Good luck to them.

It also begs the question, “who left and why?”

 

[aneftp]

sign on bonus are pretty worthless in my opinion. Get taxed at 37% plus state income taxes (where applicable) plus it ties u to a “contract” like att Verizon $1000 iPhone deal spread over 36 months.

Never take a 3 year sign on bonus. 2 years max and it better be good. The taxes paid on them are enormous making sign on bonus min in overall scheme of things.

I told amc with 13 weeks and a 100k sign on bonus. That I wouldn’t want the sign on. I’d rather get 7 weeks extra vacation for the same salary

It’s revenue neutral yet AMCs can tell I’m playing 4D chess while they are stuck on a 2D intellectual level. 7 weeks vacation is basically equivalent to a 100k income stream. But it’s more tax advantageous for me to take the extra weeks off and not get taxed on it. In lieu of the sign on bonus.

 

[ryanjmy]

They’re trying to staff 5 facilities and 40000 annual cases as a new venture? It will be very challenging. Good luck to them.

It also begs the question, “who left and why?”

I believe this is the place that offers to credential you in 24-48 hours if you have a compact license. You’d be crazy to take a salary job there until everything settles down.

 

[circleK]

Wow, that gaswork ad tells you absolutely nothing about the job. Scary, or as they’ll spin it….exciting!

 

[Burned_Out]

Hey everyone,

I am considering a change in jobs and there is a position with Somnia that is available with a decent salary but there are several things that are concerning with their offer. After doing a quick search through the archives here, they do not appear to have a favorable reputation, especially out west, but those posts are all several years old.

To be brief, it is hard to get a clear answer on daily expectations/hours, call obligations, call frequency, supervision ratios, or noncompete limitations. Obviously these are big red flags.

Does anyone have any recent experience with them? Is this common with AMCs?

Thanks

1. Your contract will be 1 page that states your salary and how many weeks of vacation you'll have. NOTHING will state your hours, call duties, CRNA supervision requirements, etc. It is made nebulous because they don't won't to let on that they'll abuse you down the line.

2. I saw many folks get denied their vacation requests even though it was stated they were to get so many weeks in their contracts. The excuse was we don't have enough people to cover you, so we can't honor your vacation requests.

3. They will hire locums providers at the beginning to get the place up & running. It will give you a false sense that they are determined to fully staff the place. They will falsely proclaim like we plan on hiring 30 anesthesiologists & 40 CRNAs. Truth is, they won't and they will only hire perms if they are willing to work cheap and unlimited hours.

4. Anesthesiologists are treated as a necessary evil in their organizatin. They will treat you with disdain but do everything to appease the CRNA staff.

5. Be careful with the malpractice insurance they offer you. It is overpriced (they will deduct premiums from your salary) and will likely be inadequate if you ever get sued. It is a slot system where you occupy a spot on a roster that is covered. If you leave, then another person who joins pays the premiums previously paid by you. My skepticism was what if no one joins, who pays the premium for that slot? If no one pays, are you no longer covered for past acts? Oceanus was the name of the malpractice carrier and if they are a subsidiary to Somnia, what happens if Somnia goes bankrupt in the future?

6. They have no problems bad mouthing you on future references once you leave their organization.

 

[amyl]

Very good and helpful information- thank you for sharing

 

[kidthor]

Oceanus was the name of the malpractice carrier and if they are a subsidiary to Somnia, what happens if Somnia goes bankrupt in the future?

Wow. So you have to pay your own employer to insure you via their own captive entity? That sucks. Talk about exploitation…

 

[nimbus]

I believe this is the place that offers to credential you in 24-48 hours if you have a compact license. You’d be crazy to take a salary job there until everything settles down.

Received this email today from a recruiter. Assume it is the same place. OP would be wise to at least check it out as locums before signing anything.

is currently seeking Anesthesiologist coverage for hospitals in Tennessee and Mississippi. Several locations near Memphis and the airport. For these opportunities, the compensation starts at $300 per hour, in addition to covering travel costs, malpractice insurance, licensing reimbursements and more! Here are the fast facts:

Schedule: a. M – F + Weekend + Call b. Shifts: 8’s, 10’s, 12’s, 24’s c. Call frequency is as much as willing to give d. Call type is in-house and beeper (e.g., Cardiac, Neuro, Transplant, etc.) EMR: Cerner and migrating to Epic in Spring Types of cases: a. General Surgery, Orthopedics, ENT, Vascular, Urology, Gynecology b. Transplants, Neuro (heads and spine), Cardiac (TEE) c. NORA: GI, Cath lab, Interventional Radiology etc. Practice Styles: a. MD must be comfortable supervising CRNA (2/3) and performing own cases (1/3). b. Ratio when stable 1:0, 0:1, 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, 1:4 Skills Sets: a. Epidural, spinal, regional (brachial plexus, fem-sciatic, ankle, wrist, etc.) with ultrasound Specialties welcomed: a. Transplant anesthesia b. Neuroanesthesia c. Cardiac anesthesia d. Trauma anesthesia Certifications: a. Board eligibility or certification b. If cardiac, TEE certified. c. BLS, ACLS, PALS Licenses | DEA: a. Licensed in Tennessee and/or Mississippi (ideally both) b. Provider DEA

 

[Coffee PRN]

Received this email today from a recruiter. Assume it is the same place. OP would be wise to at least check it out as locums before signing anything.

is currently seeking Anesthesiologist coverage for hospitals in Tennessee and Mississippi. Several locations near Memphis and the airport. For these opportunities, the compensation starts at $300 per hour, in addition to covering travel costs, malpractice insurance, licensing reimbursements and more! Here are the fast facts:

Schedule: a. M – F + Weekend + Call b. Shifts: 8’s, 10’s, 12’s, 24’s c. Call frequency is as much as willing to give d. Call type is in-house and beeper (e.g., Cardiac, Neuro, Transplant, etc.) EMR: Cerner and migrating to Epic in Spring Types of cases: a. General Surgery, Orthopedics, ENT, Vascular, Urology, Gynecology b. Transplants, Neuro (heads and spine), Cardiac (TEE) c. NORA: GI, Cath lab, Interventional Radiology etc. Practice Styles: a. MD must be comfortable supervising CRNA (2/3) and performing own cases (1/3). b. Ratio when stable 1:0, 0:1, 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, 1:4 Skills Sets: a. Epidural, spinal, regional (brachial plexus, fem-sciatic, ankle, wrist, etc.) with ultrasound Specialties welcomed: a. Transplant anesthesia b. Neuroanesthesia c. Cardiac anesthesia d. Trauma anesthesia Certifications: a. Board eligibility or certification b. If cardiac, TEE certified. c. BLS, ACLS, PALS Licenses | DEA: a. Licensed in Tennessee and/or Mississippi (ideally both) b. Provider DEA

Is the market rate in that area really only $300/hr for supervision?