So, I left medical school.

[Mad Jack]

You just described the definition of hell to me. I don't understand how people can be satisfied with that. I tried it out for a few years, had a career, felt miserable. At least now at the end of the day I feel like I accomplished something, instead of complaining about my dick manager yet again.

People who are satisfied with stagnation are strange creatures to me. They lurk the halls of facebook, dumping massive loads of picture of their kids in an effort to prove to the world that they are happy, no seriously really really happy.

I couldn't do it either, I know that feel. It just seems like it must be so nice though, to be okay with it. Having a drive to do **** with your life is both a blessing and a curse.

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[Kahreek]

Become a rocket scientist and a surgeon. You are now a rocket surgeon.

i dont know if it is that simple, i mean i must surely have at least to operate on rockets. Fuseplasties, Chargeplexies, Thrustectomies, etc , etc

 

[Mad Jack]

i dont know if it is that simple, i mean i must surely have at least to operate on rockets. Fuseplasties, Chargeplexies, Thrustectomies, etc , etc

See, you're actually misunderstanding what rocket surgeons do. They don't operate on rockets. They operate in rockets. Same surgeries, just at 10-15 times normal gravity.

 

[Flintwire]

You haven't been around these forums long enough, my friend. The stupid things people say can be astounding.

LOL - I suppose that's fair . The internet can be a weird place ...

 

[deleted480308]

what a long video

 

[sunealoneal]

This generation seems to be more mentally weak. I understand that if you're not happy quit and all that. But if you want to be a doctor and you made it to medical school you're in a great position to enter a very stable career that can provide for yourself and family. Who gives a **** about gunners? People let that **** change their entire career path? Maybe the kid who gets bullied should quit too or when the British were being meanies George Washington should've deserted his forces.

I'm fairly certain people before our generation dropped out of medical school.

 

[whizatphys]

Sometimes I wish I was like them and could just chill and enjoy the 'ol middle class life, glassily staring at a football game with my friends while my 2.5 kids and dog run around.

Coming to terms with and accepting the reality that this may be my future life, what you have described, is something that I struggled with significantly. But, like I say towards the end of the video (I think), the only person who was winning or losing anything at the end of every day was me... what I mean is, that struggle was imaginary. It was literally all in my head.

 

[fancymylotus]

You just described the definition of hell to me. I don't understand how people can be satisfied with that. I tried it out for a few years, had a career, felt miserable. At least now at the end of the day I feel like I accomplished something, instead of complaining about my dick manager yet again.

People who are satisfied with stagnation are strange creatures to me. They lurk the halls of facebook, dumping massive loads of picture of their kids in an effort to prove to the world that they are happy, no seriously really really happy.

This times one thousand.

I probably have major undiagnosed problems but my mind is always racing and if I'm not doing a zillion things and/or totally preoccupied I turn into a raging angry grouch. I work a lot so when I have time off, I feel like I should be working and have gone in to do mindless paperwork and other crap on Sunday afternoons which are technically my one day off in the week.

 

[Mad Jack]

Coming to terms with and accepting the reality that this may be my future life, what you have described, is something that I struggled with significantly. But, like I say towards the end of the video (I think), the only person who was winning or losing anything at the end of every day was me... what I mean is, that struggle was imaginary. It was literally all in my head.

You're the only person you've got to live with every second until the day you die, so you've got to make sure you're okay with the decisions you've made. Though research shows that, ultimately, you'll probably be okay with it. You might want to give The Science of Happiness a read. While I'm generally not big on pop psychology, it's a good window into the future of people who made what others viewed to be questionable decisions, or had things that appeared to be awful happen to them, but later turned out quite okay, often viewing their decision or misfortune as being the best thing to ever happen. Ted talk by the same guy:

 

[whizatphys]

You just described the definition of hell to me. I don't understand how people can be satisfied with that. I tried it out for a few years, had a career, felt miserable. At least now at the end of the day I feel like I accomplished something, instead of complaining about my dick manager yet again.

People who are satisfied with stagnation are strange creatures to me. They lurk the halls of facebook, dumping massive loads of picture of their kids in an effort to prove to the world that they are happy, no seriously really really happy.

I will definitely "respond" to this in my next video. It's actually quite awesome that the floor has opened up on this topic. Whoa.

 

[jdh71]

The thing is, there's some people that get something out of limping into that race, and there's some that gain no satisfaction from it. Limping to the end of the race because it makes you feel accomplished and like you've done something you really needed to do is one thing, but limping to the end of a race you entered for ill-conceived reasons and will gain no satisfaction from actually finishing is a stupid waste of time, particularly when it's a 7-14 year race. I guess it all comes down to, "can you imagine anything better to do with the next 7-14 years of your life?" If so, then get out now. Med school crushed me at first, but I keep going because there's nowhere better for me to be, and I'd hate myself for not going forward

Not everyone is like that- there's a lot of people that would be perfectly happy working a nine to five, barbecuing on the weekends, having a couple of kids and a normal life over the next decade, the sort that wouldn't feel they'd shorted themselves or left something unfinished. Those are what I'd like to call "normal people," the ones that are content to simply exist and skirt painful experiences that might broaden their horizons because they're too averse to suffering in order to better themselves. Sometimes I wish I was like them and could just chill and enjoy the 'ol middle class life, glassily staring at a football game with my friends while my 2.5 kids and dog run around. Being content with stagnation must be nice in a way, in the same sense that ignorance can be bliss. You have to either be a damn tough individual or a masochist to make it through medical school intact. Not everyone can or should do it, and it's okay for someone to realize that not putting yourself through hell for something that won't make you happy is an option.

Hey man. Never said it wasn't ok. I just don't admire it. I won't applaud it. It's not the kind of thing that gets me going.

I think that basically nothing really good, of any worth, of any value happens in life except through pain. Pain is the greatness maker. And as such I agree, obviously not everyone is cut out for it and that's really too bad. No hard feels.

 

[deleted390966]

Allied health fields like PA, nursing, pharmacy etc. are probably a safer bet to earn great income and still enjoy good quality of life.

"The grass is always greener on the other side", isn't it?
Nursing is saturated.
Pharmacy: please google or come to Pharmacy forum for reality

 

[Mad Jack]

Hey man. Never said it wasn't ok. I just don't admire it. I won't applaud it. It's not the kind of thing that gets me going.

I think the basically nothing really good, of any worth, of any value happens in life except through pain. Pain is the greatness maker. As such I agree, obviously not everyone is cut out for it and that's really too bad. No hard feels.

I never said you said it wasn't okay I was just kind of typing to avoid doing any more studying, because it's block week and I really needed a distraction.

 

[fancymylotus]

"The grass is always greener on the other side", isn't it?
Nursing is saturated.
Pharmacy: please google or come to Pharmacy forum for reality

Shhhhhhh if you say the word Nurse, the all nurses brigade will appear.

 

[Shjanzey]

Shhhhhhh if you say the word Nurse, the all nurses brigade will appear.

I thought you had to look in a mirror and say it three times

 

[petyr_baelish]

Thank you for posting this video, OP. I hope you will find something that fulfills you. You have the intelligence and the work ethic.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I thought you had to look in a mirror and say it three times

No, just type in all caps "NURSE PRACTITIONERS SHOULD NEVER BE INDEPENDENT PRACTITIONERS". That usually works.

 

[moonwake]

The thing is, there's some people that get something out of limping into that race, and there's some that gain no satisfaction from it. Limping to the end of the race because it makes you feel accomplished and like you've done something you really needed to do is one thing, but limping to the end of a race you entered for ill-conceived reasons and will gain no satisfaction from actually finishing is a stupid waste of time, particularly when it's a 7-14 year race. I guess it all comes down to, "can you imagine anything better to do with the next 7-14 years of your life?" If so, then get out now. Med school crushed me at first, but I keep going because there's nowhere better for me to be, and I'd hate myself for not going forward

Not everyone is like that- there's a lot of people that would be perfectly happy working a nine to five, barbecuing on the weekends, having a couple of kids and a normal life over the next decade, the sort that wouldn't feel they'd shorted themselves or left something unfinished. Those are what I'd like to call "normal people," the ones that are content to simply exist and skirt painful experiences that might broaden their horizons because they're too averse to suffering in order to better themselves. Sometimes I wish I was like them and could just chill and enjoy the 'ol middle class life, glassily staring at a football game with my friends while my 2.5 kids and dog run around. Being content with stagnation must be nice in a way, in the same sense that ignorance can be bliss. You have to either be a damn tough individual or a masochist to make it through medical school intact. Not everyone can or should do it, and it's okay for someone to realize that not putting yourself through hell for something that won't make you happy is an option.

i took a year or two off after undergrad and did the 9-5 thing with my 3 kids and it was hell. my brain needs change and to be challenged working meaningless jobs that dont take any real thought or ambition have showed me exactly what i DONT want

 

[UBC2014]

Please tell me more. Because Major Depressive Disorder, which is what every person that is in medical school here is talking about when they say "depression", is a diagnosis requiring both certain criteria to be met and a length of time that symptoms are present for. While there are various treatment modalities for this depression, all evidence points to a combination of pharmacotherapy and CBT for optimal outcomes long-term.

Depression doesn't magically resolve when someone's circumstances improve, but it can definitely be worsened by outside stressors. @JP2740 is suggesting that OP should seek help, which means talking to a counselor or mental health professional and receiving the appropriate treatment. If OP doesn't have MDD, perhaps the professionals would be able to recommend other options to help her out.

I think something got lost in translation, i'm not disputing that the OP needs to seek some professional guidance - I wholeheartedly agree.

But i was pointing out that, whoever I replied to earlier, is that staying in the medical school and "pushing through" is dangerous thinking. I think the OP made the right choice of stepping out of that environment, and allowing themselves to have a chance of successfully recovering through the various modalities available.

Additionally, I am very well aware of the various treatments options of the forms of illness that are loosely termed "depression".

 

[moonwake]

This times one thousand.

I probably have major undiagnosed problems but my mind is always racing and if I'm not doing a zillion things and/or totally preoccupied I turn into a raging angry grouch. I work a lot so when I have time off, I feel like I should be working and have gone in to do mindless paperwork and other crap on Sunday afternoons which are technically my one day off in the week.

pretty much- days off drive me crzy too. the question is when youre done with being a student/ resident how do you keep your mind preoccupied after work? a problem i dont have to worry bout for a long time

 

[fancymylotus]

pretty much- days off drive me crzy too. the question is when youre done with being a student/ resident how do you keep your mind preoccupied after work? a problem i dont have to worry bout for a long time

I purposely keep myself very busy/over involved or I would probably have some sort of breakdown. Not healthy, but it's the truth. I deal with emotional stuff and stressful stuff by logic-ing it out into something I can put away, and occupying my mind with things that require a lot of focus. For me, those "things" are Pilates and the ADA(I'm on a zillion committees that provide me with tons of busywork and outreach work and volunteer work etc)

 

[Kaustikos]

So you don't care what score people get, as long as your grade is higher? That's fine. I never said being a competitive person is necessarily negative. It was taken negatively by someone who lashed out, when he can dish things out but not take it.

I like that you appreciate and understand adverbs.

Would you have become a physician if you knew this in advance?

Saying this generation is mentally weak is not "truth".

So sad you feel this way. I would say the bullying increases when you get to third year. Part of the reason I chose the specialty I did is because of the low to non-existent level of bullying of students and residents. Wish I could say the same for other specialties.

Sure, not weak. You're just expressing your emotions.
Thanks for giving us the awesome music that is emo.

I agree with you, though, about the bullying. My prior career was filled with MDs and PhDs and I honestly never felt or heard or experienced this amount of ridiculous immaturity from people above me. Part of the comfort was that I was doing my job and my superiors had my support. It didn't matter if another employee didn't like my taste in coffee and decided to try and **** my career because I had results and numbers.
I hate to echo this statement but I realize how true this is: alot of people in medicine were the ones bullied and picked on when younger and are now displacing that on others, including medical students.

 

[moonwake]

I purposely keep myself very busy/over involved or I would probably have some sort of breakdown. Not healthy, but it's the truth. I deal with emotional stuff and stressful stuff by logic-ing it out into something I can put away, and occupying my mind with things that require a lot of focus. For me, those "things" are Pilates and the ADA(I'm on a zillion committees that provide me with tons of busywork and outreach work and volunteer work etc)

that sounds like what ill probably end up doing. i plan things so far in advance and look into everything so that it can all be organized and analyzed in my head. some people call it ocd but i think its the fact that i have some sort of adhd and instead of surpressing that extra energy im getting my $$$$ organized.

are most people in similar boats psychologically? i thought i was an anomaly but its refreshing to hear you need the same thing

 

[whizatphys]

I purposely keep myself very busy/over involved or I would probably have some sort of breakdown. Not healthy, but it's the truth. I deal with emotional stuff and stressful stuff by logic-ing it out into something I can put away, and occupying my mind with things that require a lot of focus. For me, those "things" are Pilates and the ADA(I'm on a zillion committees that provide me with tons of busywork and outreach work and volunteer work etc)

Well, it seems you are one of The Chosen.

 

[dockiran]

BTW Medical school is mostly memorization. My favourite analogy is that learning in medicine is like throwing **** at a barn door. You just keep chucking **** until it finally sticks on the residual **** from the previous throws. Sure there are concepts that require understanding, but its mostly just to form the backbone upon which you will need to attach hundreds of names of enzymes or drugs.

Lol I'll definitely keep this analogy in mind when I start. And OP I'm sorry it didn't work out for you and I hope you find a career that makes you happy.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

"The grass is always greener on the other side", isn't it?
Nursing is saturated.
Pharmacy: please google or come to Pharmacy forum for reality

This is the truth, anyone who suggests nursing for a person suffering from Medical burnout isn't living in reality. Over a quarter of nurses quit in the first year, and the units GN's start are are not generally nice. It will get better, but you have to 'pay your dues' first.

Shhhhhhh if you say the word Nurse, the all nurses brigade will appear.

Too late, I was already here. You can't prevent a disease that you already have.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

No, just type in all caps "NURSE PRACTITIONERS SHOULD NEVER BE INDEPENDENT PRACTITIONERS". That usually works.

Ironically I asked an academic dean at a school if she thought this would happen in Florida, and how this would affect primary care. She indicated a law was in the legislatue and was likely to pass. Said it wouldnt affect primary care physicians, I am not sure if I agree.

 

[charmiedermie]

I agree with you, though, about the bullying. My prior career was filled with MDs and PhDs and I honestly never felt or heard or experienced this amount of ridiculous immaturity from people above me. Part of the comfort was that I was doing my job and my superiors had my support. It didn't matter if another employee didn't like my taste in coffee and decided to try and **** my career because I had results and numbers.
I hate to echo this statement but I realize how true this is: alot of people in medicine were the ones bullied and picked on when younger and are now displacing that on others, including medical students.

This is why contrary to what people are saying in this thread, I just don't believe she (OP) would have magically liked clinicals. If you're having great difficulty when time is yours in the first 2 years, what happens when it is no longer yours?

I think you are very much correct. Medicine (or maybe just academic medicine) tends to give safe refuge to those who wish to take out their anger on those beneath them on the totem pole: residents and students - easy targets who can't run and hide. Perfect for the bullied teenager who wants his revenge. Which then affects the interaction of residents with students and eachother, IMHO.

As a non-traditional, I think its worse bc you see both realities vs. the rest of us are sheep to the bullying.

 

[Chansey]

I love how certain people in this thread brag about having a chill "Type B" personality, but then immediately claim they could never live a relaxed 9-to-5 lifestyle because they need to feel they are accomplishing something with their lives. Pretty sure the latter is the exact opposite of a Type B personality - aka Type A.

 

[Ismet]

I love how certain people in this thread brag about having a chill "Type B" personality, but then immediately claim they could never live a relaxed 9-to-5 lifestyle because they need to feel they are accomplishing something with their lives. Pretty sure the latter is the exact opposite of a Type B personality - aka Type A.

Lol yep. I'm totally type B and I get the most enjoyment out of outpatient/clinic rotations. Put in a solid day's work, get your paperwork done, and if you're not on call you're done for the day. 9-5 sounds amazing, perhaps also because I like to have free time for things I do outside of medicine.

 

[charmiedermie]

Ironically I asked an academic dean at a school if she thought this would happen in Florida, and how this would affect primary care. She indicated a law was in the legislatue and was likely to pass. Said it wouldnt affect primary care physicians, I am not sure if I agree.

I guess it is commonplace for deans to bald-faced lie to their students?

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I guess it is commonplace for deans to bald-faced lie to their students?

There might have been a bit of hedging in that quote that I didnt relay, but the viewpoint was unrealistically optimistic IMO. She did say that the days of independant practioners in any sort of Urban setting are pretty much done, which I agree with. Really I understand her position, what are you supposed to say when your mission is to produce primary care physicians? 'Primary care sucks, no one should do it!' No school will say that...

 

[fancymylotus]

Well, it seems you are one of The Chosen.

Meh. I don't think I'm super smart at all honestly. I think it was a lot of Nutella + a lot of hard work + a lot of luck + a great support system I treated like **** for years that I am now trying to make up for. If I stopped to actually think of how I felt or feel or feelings or any of it, it would have been overwhelming and I wouldn't have been able to make it through.

However, dealing by not dealing isn't healthy and I don't advocate it at all. It's just how I choose to live my life. I think I said it before when someone asked me if dentistry gets repetitive and boring- there is peace in the repetitions and routines. I find some sort of calm in my mental routines(craziness?) at this point.

 

[Chansey]

Lol yep. I'm totally type B and I get the most enjoyment out of outpatient/clinic rotations. Put in a solid day's work, get your paperwork done, and if you're not on call you're done for the day. 9-5 sounds amazing, perhaps also because I like to have free time for things I do outside of medicine.

It'd be interesting to examine the performance of Type A versus Type B students in medical school. I suspect that a majority of medical students are Type A, because getting a good MCAT score, GPA, and research often requires an ambitious Type A personality. Type A people are also likely to score higher on the boards, get more publications, etc (classic gunner stereotype). On the other hand, I bet the drop out rate in Type B students is much lower than the drop out rate in Type A students. Type B people seem more immune to stress and setback.

 

[Pisiform]

I have reached my breaking point several times during these years and I almost have some sort of nervous break down before major exam but somehow I am still here. I love learning about medicine and whatnot and patient interaction but I think my brain is slow. I can do it but at my own pace. The way information is dumped on our heads is ridiculous. Things might be much easier if I were a little smarter but you can't change that. Being asian/indian doesn't help either and that's why I don't go to weddings or parties anymore in family because everyone keeps ****ing asking about becoming doctor all the time. Whatever mental sanity I have left I owe it to my mom who always believes in me somehow. It may sound silly but sometimes I leave everything to destiny .. It may sound stupid but it helps me immensely - not feeling responsible and all. I think of all my friends throughout high school, college, masters, MCAT buddies etc who were probably smarter than me, had a better app than me, were as passionate about becoming a doctor as me but they never made into medical school. They are still at the same point in their life while I made it somehow to second year. There is a reason why I was accepted, reason why I passed all my classes so far ... And the reason be it God or destiny or my own hard work ... I would just keep on going and see what happens.

 

[Shjanzey]

I love how certain people in this thread brag about having a chill "Type B" personality, but then immediately claim they could never live a relaxed 9-to-5 lifestyle because they need to feel they are accomplishing something with their lives. Pretty sure the latter is the exact opposite of a Type B personality - aka Type A.

Because you want to excel and have meaning to your life doesn't mean you are automatically type A. Type A people get wound up easily and tend to overreact to things. They also tend to become angrily easily and may or may not express it as overt hostility. There is also a constant sense of urgency in a type A person. Most of those traits don't really apply to me, which is why I can confidently say I am type B.

I think you are making a grave error in assuming that only Type A can be successful at this level.

 

[fancymylotus]

I have reached my breaking point several times during these years and I almost have some sort of nervous break down before major exam but somehow I am still here. I love learning about medicine and whatnot and patient interaction but I think my brain is slow. I can do it but at my own pace. The way information is dumped on our heads is ridiculous. Things might be much easier if I were a little smarter but you can't change that. Being asian/indian doesn't help either and that's why I don't go to weddings or parties anymore in family because everyone keeps ****ing asking about becoming doctor all the time. Whatever mental sanity I have left I owe it to my mom who always believes in me somehow. It may sound silly but sometimes I leave everything to destiny .. It may sound stupid but it helps me immensely - not feeling responsible and all. I think of all my friends throughout high school, college, masters, MCAT buddies etc who were probably smarter than me, had a better app than me, were as passionate about becoming a doctor as me but they never made into medical school. They are still at the same point in their life while I made it somehow to second year. There is a reason why I was accepted, reason why I passed all my classes so far ... And the reason be it God or destiny or my own hard work ... I would just keep on going and see what happens.

Brown people pressure. I feel you. I dodged every single wedding/engagement/whatever party for five years.

Now the gossipy aunties who were pestering my parents about where I was and why I couldn't handle school and socializing like their kids....
....have kids who are still in school, or failed out and "picked a more fulfilling career"

Seriously the indian community can DIAF.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

here's that original post (which was posted prematurely during editing on a mobile device) since i wasn't fast enough to delete it before it was read...

It'd be interesting to examine the performance of Type A versus Type B students in medical school. I suspect that a majority of medical students are Type A, because getting a good MCAT score, GPA, and research often requires an ambitious Type A personality. Type A people are also likely to score higher on the boards, get more publications, etc (classic gunner stereotype). On the other hand, I bet the drop out rate in Type B students is much lower than the drop out rate in Type A students. Type B people seem more immune to stress and setback.

interesting thoughts.

reminds me of another thread about people reporting feeling the blues/idle/discontent/lost with what to do with the rest of MS4 after matching into a highly competitive residency.

I think a lot of people's behavior and satisfaction with life comes down to what motivates them...and with Type A they're (more often) driven by external motivation and Type B are (more often) driven by internal motivation. this is an oversimplification for sure-- just as the Type A/B personalities is an oversimplification in itself-- but I only point it out to demonstrate that it's worthwhile to self-reflect and take take stock in what drives you to do what you do every day. but then, this is more of a Type B habit...

I can't help but think that there's some X% of medical students that bust their tails off for four years (or more if you include med school admissions) to get 260 steps, all honors, and AOA to land a fancy neurosurg/derm/ortho residency just to "wow" their families and acquaintances on Match Day... only to come to the realization that--yeah, now i gotta do this $H!T for the rest of my life, and no one really cares on a day-to-day basis about the prestige of what i did during training. the glamor and impressiveness of Match Day, graduation day, and getting to say "i'm a doctor" to people are so transient compared to the reality of living out the life of a doctor.

ultimately you have to just make sure you're doing what you're doing for the right reasons, and have the strength to resist the med school blinders. make sure you have some kinda hobby or healthy habits, so that, at the very least, you can enjoy post-match MS4 and a weekend here or there like a normal human being.

sounds like the OP has her head on straight, just took a hard road to figure out medicine is not for her. and let's not crucify her for "taking someone else's spot". nothing is a guarantee and everything has an inherit level of risk.

 

[JP2740]

Right, so depression isn't something that is universally treated - there are many types of depression, and not all are addressed the same.

When someone is in a difficulty situation, a lifestyle that is non-congruent with their physical or mental health, then it can be unfathomable to receive the help that they need until they get out of that situation.

Those extraneous factors, while may not persist indefinitely, it is hard to say that they aren't the most important factors at the time. You make decisions based on your current existence.

Right so a leave of absence and try again?

 

[charmiedermie]

There might have been a bit of hedging in that quote that I didnt relay, but the viewpoint was unrealistically optimistic IMO. She did say that the days of independant practioners in any sort of Urban setting are pretty much done, which I agree with. Really I understand her position, what are you supposed to say when your mission is to produce primary care physicians? 'Primary care sucks, no one should do it!' No school will say that...

Yes, but to say it won't affect you is either naivete or lying. Seems like the older docs have ruined it for the rest of us.

 

[whizatphys]

It'd be interesting to examine the performance of Type A versus Type B students in medical school. I suspect that a majority of medical students are Type A, because getting a good MCAT score, GPA, and research often requires an ambitious Type A personality. Type A people are also likely to score higher on the boards, get more publications, etc (classic gunner stereotype). On the other hand, I bet the drop out rate in Type B students is much lower than the drop out rate in Type A students. Type B people seem more immune to stress and setback.

Would you mind expanding on that -- for instance, what do you think should be the qualifications of each type? Your idea is a good one, but when I try to think of how to phrase these qualifications without accidentally offending someone, somehow... I start to feel stumped. But more importantly, I don't know how to create a question list that could potentially encourage/provoke honesty in enough people to allow for significant data. It's an odd confounding factor, I suppose, in the imaginary research of this topic. I feel like... anonymity still isn't enough (?)

If problems are addressed, I think that there's probably enough collective intelligence on this website to start solving them. Not my own intelligence, clearly (haha jk but seriously). Everyone together, though, maybe.
:oes fist pump alone::

 

[charmiedermie]

I have reached my breaking point several times during these years and I almost have some sort of nervous break down before major exam but somehow I am still here. I love learning about medicine and whatnot and patient interaction but I think my brain is slow. I can do it but at my own pace. The way information is dumped on our heads is ridiculous. Things might be much easier if I were a little smarter but you can't change that. Being asian/indian doesn't help either and that's why I don't go to weddings or parties anymore in family because everyone keeps ****ing asking about becoming doctor all the time. Whatever mental sanity I have left I owe it to my mom who always believes in me somehow. It may sound silly but sometimes I leave everything to destiny .. It may sound stupid but it helps me immensely - not feeling responsible and all. I think of all my friends throughout high school, college, masters, MCAT buddies etc who were probably smarter than me, had a better app than me, were as passionate about becoming a doctor as me but they never made into medical school. They are still at the same point in their life while I made it somehow to second year. There is a reason why I was accepted, reason why I passed all my classes so far ... And the reason be it God or destiny or my own hard work ... I would just keep on going and see what happens.

Maybe your brain is slow because your head is way too big? Lol. J.k. Sad you can't go to family parties without the 411 on your career. That would ruin my mood. I believe in fate so I think you can do it. Having your mom as your cheerleader is always good to have.

 

[jdh71]

Seriously the indian community can DIAF.

If I said this I would get banned.

I'm tired of being oppressed.

 

[UBC2014]

Right so a leave of absence and try again?

Seems like they already took a LOA from their OP. But perhaps yes, maybe once the OP has some time away they will maybe return to school or something related.

 

[Chansey]

Would you mind expanding on that -- for instance, what do you think should be the qualifications of each type? Your idea is a good one, but when I try to think of how to phrase these qualifications without accidentally offending someone, somehow... I start to feel stumped. But more importantly, I don't know how to create a question list that could potentially encourage/provoke honesty in enough people to allow for significant data. It's an odd confounding factor, I suppose, in the imaginary research of this topic. I feel like... anonymity still isn't enough (?)

If problems are addressed, I think that there's probably enough collective intelligence on this website to start solving them. Not my own intelligence, clearly (haha jk but seriously). Everyone together, though, maybe.
:oes fist pump alone::

Well, according to wikipedia, Type A individuals are typically "ambitious, organized, and status-conscious." Type B individuals are "creative and reflective." Here is a nice simplification:

@WeAreNotRobots had some good points in his original post about the nature of Type A versus Type B. He said that Type B people might be better at surviving medical school because they are driven by their enjoyment of medicine, and not the prestige of being a doctor. If we accept wikipedia's claim that Type A students are "status-conscious," we can assume that some Type A folks want to be doctors because they want to impress people, and not necessarily because they enjoy medicine. Type A students also tie their self-esteem to external achievements, and the rigor of medical school can cause a lot of them to feel discouraged. Both of these points often lead to burn out for Type A students in medical school.

I actually consider myself Type A.

I know myself well enough to know that I crave external validation, and I'm a perfectionist. I'm hard on myself when I don't achieve. I went to a competitive "college preparatory" high school, where all my classmates were gunning to get into Harvard and Yale. My junior year, I was became depressed because wasn't achieving at the level of my classmates. I thought about suicide every day. I had a plan to hang myself from the ceiling fan using a backpack strap. I was eventually hospitalized for my depression.

I'm recovered now, but every once in a while when I "fail" at something, I'm reminded of my experience in high school. When I was getting C's in Organic Chemistry, I was miserable. When I was getting yelled at by my PI because my research wasn't going well, I was unhappy. There's always a fear in the back of my head that something will eventually trigger my depression again. This is why I asked if you had a history of depression before entering med school - your story reminded me of what I went through in high school, and I can see myself in your shoes two years from now.

I wish I had a good solution the problem, but I don't. It helps me to remind myself that I am not alone. Depression and anxiety are extremely common among high achieving students. My high school has some famous alumni, but it also has a very high drop out rate: 15%. (The national average is 7%, and that statistic includes low-income high schools.) When I talked to my classmates, it was amazing how many of them also had depression. Struggling in a high-pressure academic environment is common, and there is nothing defective about someone who struggles.

If my high school is any indication, Type A students will either be superstars or burn outs. Type B students are typically "slow and steady."
Also, people are almost never completely Type A or Type B. There is a spectrum, and most of us fall somewhere in between. I think if you are usually Type A, it helps to call up your Type B side when you're stressed out.

I'm choosing between 3 medical schools now. They are very similar in reputation, but one of them a cut above the rest. It's in a large city far away from home. I know it'll provide fantastic clinical and research opportunities, but I'm also wary because I know my neurotic self may not be able to handle a new environment. I think it's good to be self aware. When you recognize that your mindset is self-destructive, you can stop flagellating yourself over perceived failures.

 

[Neutropix]

there's a lot of people that would be perfectly happy working a nine to five, barbecuing on the weekends, having a couple of kids and a normal life over the next decade, the sort that wouldn't feel they'd shorted themselves or left something unfinished. Those are what I'd like to call "normal people," the ones that are content to simply exist and skirt painful experiences that might broaden their horizons because they're too averse to suffering in order to better themselves. Sometimes I wish I was like them and could just chill and enjoy the 'ol middle class life, glassily staring at a football game with my friends while my 2.5 kids and dog run around. Being content with stagnation must be nice in a way, in the same sense that ignorance can be bliss. You have to either be a damn tough individual or a masochist to make it through medical school intact. Not everyone can or should do it, and it's okay for someone to realize that not putting yourself through hell for something that won't make you happy is an option.

Man, this came off as really pretentious. What is a nine to five anyways? The US workforce doesn't operate within those specific constraints anymore. You speak about other people as if you are intellectually superior or of a different species entirely.

Also, one could pursue all kinds of interests living a middle-class lifestyle outside of your American dream scenario from the 50's.

I live in Las Vegas where most people are middle-upper class and they all do the most random and cool stuff like rock climbing, body building, skydiving, mountain biking, hiking, drag racing, you name it. These people aren't all intellectually bankrupt and devoid of life experiences. They're constantly trying new things and evolving.

"Being content with stagnation" really? perhaps some people like being the masters of their craft, so to speak. You can push yourself in many other ways outside of medical school, which you know.

"there's a lot of people that would be perfectly happy working a nine to five, barbecuing on the weekends, having a couple of kids and a normal life over the next decade, the sort that wouldn't feel they'd shorted themselves or left something unfinished. Those are what I'd like to call "normal people," News flash: you're normal too. You aren't special. If you disappeared the world would keep spinning like it did before and like it will continue to do.

Get over yourself.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Alrighty Cpt Ahab, or NewlyHiredMedicalScribePreMed Ahab, allow me to be your White Whale.

I live in Las Vegas where most people are middle-upper class

No. Median household income in Las Vegas is $51,143 from 2009-2013. Quick statistics lesson, that means half of Las Vegas residents live below the median household income of our country. Compare this to say Palo Alto, CA where the median household income is $121,465 from the same time period. THAT is where most people are middle-upper class.

Source: US Census http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/nav/jsf/pages/index.xhtml

News flash: you're normal too.

MadJack is special. He's special by the very fact that he ran the pre-med gauntlet and succeeded while so so so many others have tried and failed. He's special because in a few years his judgments and decisions can drastically alter a person's life. (Don't let your ego get too big @Mad Jack ) And this is true for anyone that made it into medical school or are physicians.

And seriously, would you honestly go to your new doctor boss and say to him "Get over yourself" if he said something you disagreed with?

As The Rock sayeth: Know your role.

 

[Mad Jack]

Man, this came off as really pretentious. What is a nine to five anyways? The US workforce doesn't operate within those specific constraints anymore. You speak about other people as if you are intellectually superior or of a different species entirely.

Also, one could pursue all kinds of interests living a middle-class lifestyle outside of your American dream scenario from the 50's.

I live in Las Vegas where most people are middle-upper class and they all do the most random and cool stuff like rock climbing, body building, skydiving, mountain biking, hiking, drag racing, you name it. These people aren't all intellectually bankrupt and devoid of life experiences. They're constantly trying new things and evolving.

"Being content with stagnation" really? perhaps some people like being the masters of their craft, so to speak. You can push yourself in many other ways outside of medical school, which you know.

"there's a lot of people that would be perfectly happy working a nine to five, barbecuing on the weekends, having a couple of kids and a normal life over the next decade, the sort that wouldn't feel they'd shorted themselves or left something unfinished. Those are what I'd like to call "normal people," News flash: you're normal too. You aren't special. If you disappeared the world would keep spinning like it did before and like it will continue to do.

Get over yourself.

Most people don't have a cause though. An endgame. An all-consuming objective that eats away almost every waking second of their days. I tried it. Working a normal job, though the hours were irritating, they weren't long (rotating days and evenings, but I spend more time studying in 3 days now than I'd ever spend in a week working then, so it was comparatively lax). I was engaged, planned on having kids, etc. But the thing is, without some new, big goal, everything just felt really empty. The little goals of everyday living just weren't enough for me, in a way that's really hard to describe. I was alive, but without a purpose; I didn't feel like I was actually living. Most people don't understand that feeling- the act of living alone is its own reward, and the pleasures of day-to-day life can make them content. But all the mountain climbing and skydiving and weight lifting in the world don't amount to a calling unless you make them your life- they're just activities. Some of us, the really motivated or damaged or idealistic, whatever our reasons, need a calling to be happy. Whether that's becoming a doctor, building a real estate empire, getting a gold medal, or summiting a mountain no one has ever touched before, we need that. We feel like we're dying on the inside without it.

Now, as to special, I never claimed to be that. I claimed to be different than most people, in personality and motivation. Normal here is the societal baseline of goals and ambitions and what makes people happy. There's a reason the vast majority of my friends wouldn't consider medical school as an option- it's ****ing nuts to them. My friends see me running around the country, working my ass off for years on end, first with the prerequisites, now with medical school, and they ask me how in the hell any of this could be worth it. I could be spending time with my girlfriend, I could be getting married. I could be going on the yearly camping trips, coming to the weekend barbecues. I could see my family more than once a year, that might be nice. I had a good job, why would I give it up just to go through all of this just to get a slightly better job roughly a decade from now? And for all the **** I'm going through I'm paying damn near a half million dollars plus interest? All so I can fight with CMS and hospital administration for the rest of my life? It seems insane to them, and there's a damn good chance it actually is. There's a reason only 1.77% of people in the United States ever obtain a doctorate-level education, after all.

And I don't think I'm smarter than most people- I'm equally as stupid, only in different ways.

I don't really care to get into the 9-5 thing, but why not, let's do it. Roughly half of my friends work the 9-5, the rest typically work 40 hours with an occasional overtime shifts to buy something nice for themselves. Even the ones that aren't working the M-F still have 36-40 hour schedules, just with rotating days. I had a pretty good job myself before heading back to med school, full time pay for three days a week, with six figure income potential if I decided to put in a fourth. Any time anyone mentions reasonable work hours outside of medicine around here, there's always naysayers insisting it isn't possible, that hours are just as crazy outside of medicine as they are inside of it. This despite the fact that the average workweek is 35 hours throughout the country overall, and that half of full-time workers work 40 or less hours per week. What this all amounts to is only 54.86 million working Americans put in over 40 hours a week. Yeah, that's nearly one in four workers, but it certainly isn't everyone. There's plenty of decent jobs out there, with reasonable hours and pay, if you have the right skills and know where to look.

 

[username456789]

Most people don't have a cause though. An endgame. An all-consuming objective that eats away almost every waking second of their days. I tried it. Working a normal job, though the hours were irritating, they weren't long (rotating days and evenings, but I spend more time studying in 3 days now than I'd ever spend in a week working then, so it was comparatively lax). I was engaged, planned on having kids, etc. But the thing is, without some new, big goal, everything just felt really empty. The little goals of everyday living just weren't enough for me, in a way that's really hard to describe. I was alive, but without a purpose; I didn't feel like I was actually living. Most people don't understand that feeling- the act of living alone is its own reward, and the pleasures of day-to-day life can make them content. But all the mountain climbing and skydiving and weight lifting in the world don't amount to a calling unless you make them your life- they're just activities. Some of us, the really motivated or damaged or idealistic, whatever our reasons, need a calling to be happy. Whether that's becoming a doctor, building a real estate empire, getting a gold medal, or summiting a mountain no one has ever touched before, we need that. We feel like we're dying on the inside without it.

Now, as to special, I never claimed to be that. I claimed to be different than most people, in personality and motivation. Normal here is the societal baseline of goals and ambitions and what makes people happy. There's a reason the vast majority of my friends wouldn't consider medical school as an option- it's ****ing nuts to them. My friends see me running around the country, working my ass off for years on end, first with the prerequisites, now with medical school, and they ask me how in the hell any of this could be worth it. I could be spending time with my girlfriend, I could be getting married. I could be going on the yearly camping trips, coming to the weekend barbecues. I could see my family more than once a year, that might be nice. I had a good job, why would I give it up just to go through all of this just to get a slightly better job roughly a decade from now? And for all the **** I'm going through I'm paying damn near a half million dollars plus interest? All so I can fight with CMS and hospital administration for the rest of my life? It seems insane to them, and there's a damn good chance it actually is. There's a reason only 1.77% of people in the United States ever obtain a doctorate-level education, after all.

And I don't think I'm smarter than most people- I'm equally as stupid, only in different ways.

I don't really care to get into the 9-5 thing, but why not, let's do it. Roughly half of my friends work the 9-5, the rest typically work 40 hours with an occasional overtime shifts to buy something nice for themselves. Even the ones that aren't working the M-F still have 36-40 hour schedules, just with rotating days. I had a pretty good job myself before heading back to med school, full time pay for three days a week, with six figure income potential if I decided to put in a fourth. Any time anyone mentions reasonable work hours outside of medicine around here, there's always naysayers insisting it isn't possible, that hours are just as crazy outside of medicine as they are inside of it. This despite the fact that the average workweek is 35 hours throughout the country overall, and that half of full-time workers work 40 or less hours per week. What this all amounts to is only 54.86 million working Americans put in over 40 hours a week. Yeah, that's nearly one in four workers, but it certainly isn't everyone. There's plenty of decent jobs out there, with reasonable hours and pay, if you have the right skills and know where to look.

You're going to be disappointed when you find out that medicine really is just another job. One that happens to require many years of training, but another job nonetheless. We are not as special as you'd like to think.

That said, there is certainly something to be said for finding one of those jobs that you really enjoy. Hopefully medicine fits that bill.

 

[Mad Jack]

You're going to be disappointed when you find out that medicine really is just another job. One that happens to require many years of training, but another job nonetheless. We are not as special as you'd like to think.

That said, there is certainly something to be said for finding one of those jobs that you really enjoy. Hopefully medicine fits that bill.

"Why are you climbing that mountain? It's just a view. One that takes a days of climbing, but a view nonetheless. It's not as special as you think."

Medicine is what you make of it. I've said before that, at the end of the day, it's just a job. It's not magic, you aren't saving lives in an adrenaline-fueled haze most days, you don't walk away feeling like some kind of hero every shift. But it's very much about the journey for me, not so much the destination or what I'll do when I get there. I'll figure out some other new goal, no doubt.