So I just failed Anatomy

[DermViser]

If there isn't a time and place to complain about one's life, then there is no point in life.

Except he does it on EVERYTHING, since his first day of medical school. I'm sorry, actually before that, re: his white coat ceremony.

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[LostinLift]

Honetly, why is OB still required for all 3rd year med students? It should be an elective. as a young male I'm not looking forward to the OB and Surgery rotations at all.

I think delivering a baby once in your life will make it worth it.

 

[Ismet]

Honetly, why is OB still required for all 3rd year med students? It should be an elective. as a young male I'm not looking forward to the OB and Surgery rotations at all.

If you go into FM or IM, you're going to have OB patients and you're going to do gyne exams. You're going to have to take care of patients pre- and post-operation.

It's KIND OF an important part of medicine. That's why it's required.

 

[Ismet]

No. I don't think anyone does, but our school wants us to do it anyways.

I highly suggest you use those clinical experiences to their full potential. Having your own "system" for performing an H&P is an essential skill for doing well in 3rd year, and the more practice you have before you start actually getting evaluated for it, the better. Your school is correct in that it prepares you for 3rd year. Patient interaction and good history and physical skills go a long way.

 

[DermViser]

If you go into FM or IM, you're going to have OB patients and you're going to do gyne exams. You're going to have to take care of patients pre- and post-operation.

It's KIND OF an important part of medicine. That's why it's required.

He plans on referring any women with "women problems" straight to OB-Gyn. Hence a woman with menstrual problems due to her dysfunctional thyroid -- straight referral to OB-Gyn.

 

[colbgw02]

If you go into FM or IM, you're going to have OB patients and you're going to do gyne exams. You're going to have to take care of patients pre- and post-operation.

It's KIND OF an important part of medicine. That's why it's required.

This is specious reasoning. Medical imaging is extremely important in the delivery of healthcare in the first world, but would you advocate radiology to be a core rotation?

Some rotations make sense to be part of a core curriculum, namely medicine and surgery, as they teach fundamental principles that can be applied broadly throughout medicine. Most everything else is convention, and attempts to justify them otherwise is a retrofitted argument.

Also, would an internist really see OB patients? That hasn't been my experience. Gyn, sure, maybe a little. But OB? I'm skeptical.

 

[DermViser]

I highly suggest you use those clinical experiences to their full potential. Having your own "system" for performing an H&P is an essential skill for doing well in 3rd year, and the more practice you have before you start actually getting evaluated for it, the better. Your school is correct in that it prepares you for 3rd year. Patient interaction and good history and physical skills go a long way.

He's busy concentrating on basic science, not that flim-flam boring asking questions, getting a history, and doing a physical. Ick.

 

[DermViser]

This is specious reasoning. Medical imaging is extremely important in the delivery of healthcare in the first world, but would you advocate radiology to be a core rotation?

Some rotations make sense to be part of a core curriculum, namely medicine and surgery, as they teach fundamental principles that can be applied broadly throughout medicine. Most everything else is convention, and attempts to justify them otherwise is a retrofitted argument.

Also, would an internist really see OB patients? That hasn't been my experience. Gyn, sure, maybe a little. But OB? I'm skeptical.

I don't know about OB, but Gyn is definitely on IM boards, not to mention they have outpatient clinics once a week for 3 years.

 

[DermViser]

I think delivering a baby once in your life will make it worth it.

Your post is hilarious with your avatar.

 

[CrimsonKing]

Honetly, why is OB still required for all 3rd year med students? It should be an elective. as a young male I'm not looking forward to the OB and Surgery rotations at all.

You'll understand once you actually go through the rotation. The point is, among other things, to make you mildly comfortable performing pelvic exams and breast exams, being able to get a history related to "female" complaints and come up with a good differential/workup/plan, and get at least a little practice delivering babies (vaginally and cesarean).

While OB can be a rough rotation for a lot of people, it's still an excellent place for you to learn skills and information that will help you in your future practice. As @Ismet said, you're going to get a decent amount of GYN issues in any primary care field, and you need to be able to do a pelvic exam when it's appropriate. Too many physicians chicken out of pelvic exams when they're necessary as is. Seen too many admits from the ED with LLQ pain and a story that could be diverticulitis or PID who didn't receive even a basic pelvic exam. It's bad medicine to ignore OB/GYN issues just because you are uncomfortable.

 

[colbgw02]

Again, gyn, sure. I get it. There are gonna be a few women that see an internist for everything, although I would say the converse is much more likely - to wit, a woman will see a gynecologist as their PCP.

ETA: was responding to DV.

 

[Ismet]

Also, would an internist really see OB patients? That hasn't been my experience. Gyn, sure, maybe a little. But OB? I'm skeptical.

It's probably not common, but a few rotations ago I worked with internal med docs during their outpatient clinic and one of them saw a couple pregnant patients while I was there. Clearly they were not there for their OB appointment, but I'd imagine that a PCP can't turn a blind eye to the fact that their patient's pregnancy may affect management.

 

[DermViser]

Again, gyn, sure. I get it. There are gonna be a few women that see an internist for everything, although I would say the converse is much more likely - to wit, a woman will see a gynecologist as their PCP.

ETA: was responding to DV.

Your OB-Gyn is not going take care of your high cholesterol, high blood pressure, hyperthyroidism, etc. unless you're pregnant (if even then). Besides your once a year pap and pelvic, your gyn isn't going to do any other primary care.

 

[DermViser]

It's probably not common, but a few rotations ago I worked with internal med docs during their outpatient clinic and one of them saw a couple pregnant patients while I was there. Clearly they were not there for their OB appointment, but I'd imagine that a PCP can't turn a blind eye to the fact that their patient's pregnancy may affect management.

I don't know if this is true everywhere, but the OB-Gyn residents on my rotation absolutely hated anything and everything having to do with Internal Medicine. An IM doc has no filter as to the patients he sees. It's much more difficult for him to say - I'm not treating your hypertension, high cholesterol, etc. bc you're pregnant.

 

[colbgw02]

Your OB-Gyn is not going take care of your high cholesterol, high blood pressure, hyperthyroidism, etc. unless you're pregnant (if even then). Besides your once a year pap and pelvic, your gyn isn't going to do any other primary care.

http://kidshealth.org/teen/expert/doctors/primary_gyn.html

http://www.qualityhealth.com/womens...your-gynecologist-your-primary-care-physician

These links talk about how gynecologists shouldn't be a woman's PCP, a conclusion that I agree with. However, the fact that such articles exist demonstrates, for better or for worse, that women use their gynecologists as their PCP. If it weren't a real phenomenon, then no one would ever write these articles. I'm not saying it's common, and I'm not saying it's a good idea, but some women do, in fact, use their gynecologists as their PCP. And, as I said earlier, I contend that is a more frequent phenomenon than women using internists for gynecologic concerns.

 

[DermViser]

http://kidshealth.org/teen/expert/doctors/primary_gyn.html

http://www.qualityhealth.com/womens...your-gynecologist-your-primary-care-physician

These links talk about how gynecologists shouldn't be a woman's PCP, a conclusion that I agree with. However, the fact that such articles exist demonstrates, for better or for worse, that women use their gynecologists as their PCP. If it weren't a real phenomenon, then no one would ever write these articles. I'm not saying it's common, and I'm not saying it's a good idea, but some women do, in fact, use their gynecologists as their PCP. And, as I said earlier, I contend that is a more frequent phenomenon than women using internists for gynecologic concerns.

I never said it was optimal for OB-Gyns to be women's PCP. I recommend against it, however it's not surprising that it happens. Just like someone who is post-MI continuing to see his cardiologist for followup and as his PCP.

 

[colbgw02]

You'll understand once you actually go through the rotation. The point is, among other things, to make you mildly comfortable performing pelvic exams and breast exams, being able to get a history related to "female" complaints and come up with a good differential/workup/plan, and get at least a little practice delivering babies (vaginally and cesarean).

While OB can be a rough rotation for a lot of people, it's still an excellent place for you to learn skills and information that will help you in your future practice. As @Ismet said, you're going to get a decent amount of GYN issues in any primary care field, and you need to be able to do a pelvic exam when it's appropriate. Too many physicians chicken out of pelvic exams when they're necessary as is. Seen too many admits from the ED with LLQ pain and a story that could be diverticulitis or PID who didn't receive even a basic pelvic exam. It's bad medicine to ignore OB/GYN issues just because you are uncomfortable.

This is the same, backward reasoning that I mentioned earlier. One can plug lots of different things into this reasoning as justification for a specialty being a core clerkship.

You know what PCPs see more frequently than gynecologic complaints? Skin issues? Why not make dermatology a core clerkship? Maybe we can cut down on all of the unnecessary referrals to derm for benign nevi?

Or how about anesthesia? Anyone who might respond to a code needs to learn how to intubate, right?

Again, how about radiology? Lots of physicians need to learn how to read a chest radiograph, no?

 

[colbgw02]

Your OB-Gyn is not going take care of your high cholesterol, high blood pressure, hyperthyroidism, etc. unless you're pregnant (if even then). Besides your once a year pap and pelvic, your gyn isn't going to do any other primary care.

I never said it was optimal for OB-Gyns to be women's PCP. I recommend against it, however it's not surprising that it happens. Just like someone who is post-MI continuing to see his cardiologist for followup and as his PCP.

So, they're not going to do it, but it's not surprising that it happens?

 

[DermViser]

So, they're not going to do it, but it's not surprising that it happens?

Your OB-Gyn likely will not be titrating your hydrochlorothiazide and lisinopril. There are many primary-care problems that fall under "Women's Health" that patients will have taken care of while they're at their OB-Gyn's office. Those are the PCP problems that OB-Gyns will participate in.

 

[colbgw02]

Your OB-Gyn likely will not be titrating your hydrochlorothiazide and lisinopril. There are many primary-care problems that fall under "Women's Health" that patients will have taken care of while they're at their OB-Gyn's office. Those are the PCP problems that OB-Gyns will participate in.

Sure, but it goes beyond that. I'm not saying an OB/GYN is going to manage 7 chronic conditions in a 75 year old, but if a women - who sees no other physician other than her OB/GYN - has a cough, then there's a pretty good chance that it's the OB/GYN who is calling in the z-pack to the pharmacy. That's primary care. Heck, I even knew one OB/GYN who took it upon herself to manage Synthroid in a hypothyroid patient.

 

[Anastomoses]

I could totally see you doing that with this at the end:

That's about right. It might have been better if I used it without realizing I was using it in the middle. It interrupted my thought flow and I corrected it, thereby making it obvious to everyone. I'm not very clever at hiding my thoughts.

Lol I am really not surprised you call children "it." Like really not surprised.

I guess it wouldn't be fair to be offended. I'm not robotic, you should know.

 

[DermViser]

That's about right. It might have been better if I used it without realizing I was using it in the middle. It interrupted my thought flow and I corrected it, thereby making it obvious to everyone. I'm not very clever at hiding my thoughts.

LOL! Be careful. Initial impressions like that can destroy you on evaluations, can be hard to shake off. Maybe stop thinking of it like an automaton, problem to be solved type scenario and strive to emulate the "ideal physician" they teach you in your empathy and professionalism courses.

 

[touchpause13]

Lol at OB not being important. Because pregnant woman's only health issue is pregnancy. Nope, you would never see a pregnant woman in any other specialty

 

[DermViser]

Lol at OB not being important. Because pregnant woman's only health issue is pregnancy. Nope, you would never see a pregnant woman in any other specialty

It's much easier to turf it to OB-Gyn. If there were other conditions that allowed people to do it besides pregancy, some specialties would never see women, if given the opportunity.

 

[Anastomoses]

Oh boy. I hope ark makes a thread about doing pelvics.

Also i really enjoy anatomy. It's biochem that kills me

As for you...biochemistry is probably the most interesting first year topic. I'm kind of astounded at what you're feeling and maybe this will help you: Biochemistr is purely the information about what we humans have actually been able to figure out about how we metabolize our food and turn it into energy or how we need certain vitamins to help other processes express properly and create the structural proteins we require. That's it. Each piece of biochemistry is attempting to help you get a clear picture of how that works. Now tell me it isn't fascinating.

 

[touchpause13]

As for you...biochemistry is probably the most interesting first year topic. I'm kind of astounded at what you're feeling and maybe this will help you: Biochemistr is purely the information about what we humans have actually been able to figure out about how we metabolize our food and turn it into energy or how we need certain vitamins to help other processes express properly and create the structural proteins we require. That's it. Each piece of biochemistry is attempting to help you get a clear picture of how that works. Now tell me it isn't fascinating.

I actually think it's extremely cool/interesting. I like studying the material, but knowing it well enough for the exams is a different story. My background in it is so weak I'm struggling to keep a float

 

[Anastomoses]

I actually think it's extremely cool/interesting. I like studying the material, but knowing it well enough for the exams is a different story. My background in it is so weak I'm struggling to keep a float

You don't need to know every detail. In fact, once you've got the basic picture...you literally only have to remember like 3 enzymes for each process..the "rate limiting enzymes". done.

 

[DermViser]

As for you...biochemistry is probably the most interesting first year topic. I'm kind of astounded at what you're feeling and maybe this will help you: Biochemistry is purely the information about what we humans have actually been able to figure out about how we metabolize our food and turn it into energy or how we need certain vitamins to help other processes express properly and create the structural proteins we require. That's it. Each piece of biochemistry is attempting to help you get a clear picture of how that works. Now tell me it isn't fascinating.

There's the Anastomoses I know and love!

 

[DermViser]

I actually think it's extremely cool/interesting. I like studying the material, but knowing it well enough for the exams is a different story. My background in it is so weak I'm struggling to keep a float

I always liked correlating Biochemistry with eating - it used to make me hungry all the time. Like I would eat some protein or carbohydrate and imagine the pathway it goes under from deglutition, digestion, etc. It's much easier to segment if you don't think of every pathway at once. If you think of it all as memorizing, it just makes it that much harder.

 

[Southplains]

Honetly, why is OB still required for all 3rd year med students? It should be an elective. as a young male I'm not looking forward to the OB and Surgery rotations at all.

Your virgin is showing.

 

[EMDO2018]

Your virgin is showing.

Im not a virgin, every single third year I talk to says ob/gyn is the worst rotation of the year. And as a guy you rarely get to do or learn anything.

 

[Southplains]

Im not a virgin, every single third year I talk to says ob/gyn is the worst rotation of the year. And as a guy you rarely get to do or learn anything.

Fair enough, I thought you had mentioned before you were. I know that guys are often excluded on obgyn rotations but it's no reason to say it's unnecessary. I think obgyn remains firm as a core rotation in medical school. What kind of doctor are you that's never delivered a baby?

We should just try to make the most of it, despite us both likely judging the experience as rough.

 

[DermViser]

Im not a virgin, every single third year I talk to says ob/gyn is the worst rotation of the year. And as a guy you rarely get to do or learn anything.

It's bc of the personalities of the female resident harpies that pervade that specialty.
(Inb4medstudentwhosaystheyjustlovedtheirOBGynrotation)

 

[Kevin Baker]

Im not a virgin, every single third year I talk to says ob/gyn is the worst rotation of the year. And as a guy you rarely get to do or learn anything.

I'd try and keep an open mind. I totally agree with the consensus in regards to the personalities of residents and nurses in OBGYN, though the attendings were all super cool. Guys can do a ton though. In my 4 weeks I only had two patients and one husband turn me away for a female med student and was never excluded from any procedures. Paps, deliveries, C section assists, D&Cs, IUDs, etc. A fair amount of male med students are nervous or afraid of being turned down but show up with a good attitude and have/fake enough confidence, and you might find it a very worthy educational experience.

 

[DermViser]

I'd try and keep an open mind. I totally agree with the consensus in regards to the personalities of residents and nurses in OBGYN, though the attendings were all super cool. Guys can do a ton though. In my 4 weeks I only had two patients and one husband turn me away for a female med student and was never excluded from any procedures. Paps, deliveries, C section assists, D&Cs, IUDs, etc. A fair amount of male med students are nervous or afraid of being turned down but show up with a good attitude and have/fake enough confidence, and you might find it a very worthy educational experience.

Yeah, except you have to do 4 years of residency with those insufferable harpies as well.

 

[Arkangeloid]

Your virgin is showing.

Now I feel bad again

 

[DermViser]

Now I feel bad again

He was talking about EMDO2018.

 

[CrimsonKing]

Im not a virgin, every single third year I talk to says ob/gyn is the worst rotation of the year. And as a guy you rarely get to do or learn anything.

That's a load of crap. I'm a guy and out of the 80 or so patients I worked with during OB/GYN, only 2 asked for me to leave the room for their pelvic exams.

I guess if you've got a creepy or rude demeanor that number might go up, but most women (especially at teaching institutions) understand the importance of your learning and actually want you to be better at handling women's issues than many of the male physicians they've had in the past.

 

[deleted480308]

Im not a virgin, every single third year I talk to says ob/gyn is the worst rotation of the year. And as a guy you rarely get to do or learn anything.

Better to learn that women don't want a male gyn during one month of 3rd yr than a lifetime of financial impact after ignorantly choosing obgyn residency

 

[DermViser]

Better to learn that women don't want a male gyn during one month of 3rd yr than a lifetime of financial impact after ignorantly choosing obgyn residency

And yet there is ALWAYS one who signs up to do 48 months of it based on how much they just "loved" their 8 week OB-Gyn clerkship and then figure out during internship that it's not like that.

 

[Apoplexy__]

#Inb4medstudentwhosaystheyjustlovedtheirOBGynrotation

Bro. Dude. You don't hashtag inb4's, man.

 

[Arkangeloid]

.

 

[Fluffy Pomeranian]

So I haven't been around for awhile and don't know the exact circumstances of what's going on, but just wanted to let you know I'm rooting for you @Arkangeloid . You're going to come out a much stronger person and physician when you finish med school. You can't feel the full force of happiness and successful until you've tasted what suffering also feels like, trust me.

 

[Fluffy Pomeranian]

It's bc of the personalities of the female resident harpies that pervade that specialty.
(Inb4medstudentwhosaystheyjustlovedtheirOBGynrotation)

Hahaha guilty.....

So I recently finished my ob/gyn rotation and did in fact fall in love with it. I've always been interested in reproductive physiology and women's health, but never thought ob/gyn was for me until now. but i'm afraid of becoming angry and bitter. thoughts?!?!

 

[DermViser]

Hahaha guilty.....

So I recently finished my ob/gyn rotation and did in fact fall in love with it. I've always been interested in reproductive physiology and women's health, but never thought ob/gyn was for me until now. but i'm afraid of becoming angry and bitter. thoughts?!?!

I more enjoyed reading about OB-Gyn in the text than the actual rotation in terms of resident personalities, let's put it that way. Women generally tend to lash out when they are stressed and OB-Gyn is no exception. It's absolutely exhausting.

Easier to like something for 8 weeks vs. 4 years.

 

[Fluffy Pomeranian]

I more enjoyed reading about OB-Gyn in the text than the actual rotation in terms of resident personalities, let's put it that way. Women generally tend to lash out when they are stressed and OB-Gyn is no exception. It's absolutely exhausting.

Easier to like something for 8 weeks vs. 4 years.

Very true. I really love the patient population in OB and the doctor-patient relationship. I also like that it's a nice mix of surgical and medical cases. If I did do ob/gyn, it would be with the end goal of trying to get into a reproductive endo/infertility fellowship...do you think this would be a bad mindset to enter with since I have no idea what the chances of me actually getting a fellowship would be? In other words, would really wanting to end up in that subspecialty be a bad reason to pursue ob/gyn when I have many doubts about actually being an ob/gyn for the rest of my life (due to hours, malpractice environment, etc)?

 

[DermViser]

Very true. I really love the patient population in OB and the doctor-patient relationship. I also like that it's a nice mix of surgical and medical cases. If I did do ob/gyn, it would be with the end goal of trying to get into a reproductive endo/infertility fellowship...do you think this would be a bad mindset to enter with since I have no idea what the chances of me actually getting a fellowship would be? In other words, would really wanting to end up in that subspecialty be a bad reason to pursue ob/gyn when I have many doubts about actually being an ob/gyn for the rest of my life (due to hours, malpractice environment, etc)?

REI is a very competitive fellowship (due to lifestyle of course). Personally, I think it's very risky to pursue OB-Gyn for the sole purpose of doing REI, just like it would very risky to pursue IM for the sole purpose of doing GI or Cards. I don't think it's smart to pursue OB-Gyn if you aren't at least 100% sure that you'd be ok with doing OB-Gyn if for some reason you were never to get REI.

 

[loris]

REI is a very competitive fellowship (due to lifestyle of course). Personally, I think it's very risky to pursue OB-Gyn for the sole purpose of doing REI, just like it would very risky to pursue IM for the sole purpose of doing GI or Cards. I don't think it's smart to pursue OB-Gyn if you aren't at least 100% sure that you'd be ok with doing OB-Gyn if for some reason you were never to get REI.

Whenever I see that acronym, my mind goes straight to ice axes and backpacking tents.

 

[Arkangeloid]

So I haven't been around for awhile and don't know the exact circumstances of what's going on, but just wanted to let you know I'm rooting for you @Arkangeloid . You're going to come out a much stronger person and physician when you finish med school. You can't feel the full force of happiness and successful until you've tasted what suffering also feels like, trust me.

Heh thanks, always nice to know people support me. I mean, I know I have some enemies here, but I think I also have a number of allies and friends.

In any case, I've failed a number of things, and I think my life has been harder than you would expect for an upper middle class kid. But I've recovered every time, and I think I have surprised people with my resilience.

I think what sort of bugs me is that with multiple failed classes, even if I don't have to repeat the year I'm pretty much stuck going into FM. As I've said before, I think it's a solid career, I just don't think the money and prestige attained by a family physician is enough to warrant the financial, temporal, and emotional investment of medical school and residency. But that's just the nature of the beast, and I can't do anything about it now I guess.

As Victarion from GoT would say, "The most beautiful woman in the world has urgent need of my board scores." I still claim that one of my motivations for going into medicine is a boost to my desirability as a man for an arranged marriage. And I know I've caught some flak for this, and for people, not just premeds saying "why aren't you going into medicine to help people?"

Well, if I was just interested in helping people, why go through the hell of med school? Why not just become a nurse? Or a social worker?

 

[Fluffy Pomeranian]

Heh thanks, always nice to know people support me. I mean, I know I have some enemies here (like GuyWhoDoesStuff and Anastomoses I guess, among others), but I think I also have a number of allies and friends.

In any case, I've failed a number of things, and I think my life has been harder than you would expect for an upper middle class kid. But I've recovered every time, and I think I have surprised people with my resilience.

I think what sort of bugs me is that with multiple failed classes, even if I don't have to repeat the year I'm pretty much stuck going into FM. As I've said before, I think it's a solid career, I just don't think the money and prestige attained by a family physician is enough to warrant the financial, temporal, and emotional investment of medical school and residency. But that's just the nature of the beast, and I can't do anything about it now I guess.

As Victarion from GoT would say, "The most beautiful woman in the world has urgent need of my board scores." I still claim that one of my motivations for going into medicine is a boost to my desirability as a man for an arranged marriage. And I know I've caught some flak for this, and for people, not just premeds saying "why aren't you going into medicine to help people?"

Well, if I was just interested in helping people, why go through the hell of med school? Why not just become a nurse? Or a social worker?

What specialties would you be interested in, your grades notwithstanding? Didn't you say you were interested in psych? I'm not am expert on this obv but I don't think psych or peds are out of the question, though I wouldn't say to go into peds unless you really love working with kids. Have you looked at any of the fellowships available after FM?

How are you preparing for step 1?