single as a surgery resident

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PAgirl

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I know there's been a lot of talk on here lately about being in relationships, so I apologize in advance, but I'm thinking of breaking off my engagement, and I was just wondering if I could get some pros/cons of being single vs. being married as a surgery resident. I am by no means basing my decision about my relationship on the replies to this thread, but I am thinking that maybe my decision is a little rash and being single as a surgery resident won't be as good as I think it will, so I just wanted some first hand experience. Thanks, and please refrain from judging me to be a bad person. I really do feel awful about the situation and my post here does not mean I'm taking it lightly.

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but I am thinking that maybe my decision is a little rash and being single as a surgery resident won't be as good as I think it will

:confused: Wait, I'm confused.

Are you thinking about breaking your engagement off solely because you're going to be a surgery resident? Or are there other factors that make you unhappy about this relationship?
 
I'm under the impression that she wants to break off the engagement but is having second thoughts because she thinks being single during residency may be more horrible than staying engaged to someone she's having doubts about.

Funny.. I was going to start a thread with a similar title. Though I'll be single going INTO surgery residency and that TERRIFIES me because I feel there can't be much time to meet new people or date :(

Personally I think married students/residents have an edge, especially if they're married to someone else in medicine or with a very stable lifestyle b/c you have someone you can get emotional support from and you spend less time partying :p Though, maybe this is a grass is greener type of situation. I imagine if you're in a bad marriage its probably a lot more hellish than being single.
 
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Trust me on this one, it's a lot better to date "Hannah and her five sisters" or Hans and his five brothers" than to be in a relationship with someone just because you can't stand the idea of being alone. Seriously,you are not going to be locked up in a convent or monastery so anything that you deem worthy of your time, you can do.

Residency is like any other job in that people will come and go in your life. You don't have to treat it like some kind of "mission" or "crusade" where you have to give up the rest of your life to perform well. Plenty of people had relationships during residency and no one who was single lacked for company if they followed the simple rules of being civilized such as bathing, toothbrushing and mouthwash along with a bit of deodorant and clean clothing.
 
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Agree with the others that being a relationship which isn't stable or right or pleasure >> pain will make residency torture. Residency is hard enough without having something else to look forward to. It was not uncommon for me to see residents and attendings who never went home - not because they couldn't, but because they didn't want to.

I met my ex-SO my first month of internship and we stayed together throughout residency. It made things much more bearable to have his support and I know plenty of colleagues who met their SO and spouses during residency. Meeting people outside of the hospital takes some special dedication and work but is it possible.
 
...I know plenty of colleagues who met their SO and spouses during residency. Meeting people outside of the hospital takes some special dedication and work but is it possible.
Agree. The majority of folks through my residency were single and dating... fairly regularly. The ones in "new" engagements/marriages ended. The ones in marriages with a little time under their belts made through residency.
...I'm thinking of breaking off my engagement, and I was just wondering if I could get some pros/cons...
Plenty of folks do residency single. Plenty do it married. There is no universal right or wrong answer. In general it is dependent on the individuals how they function best within their social existance. For you specifically, IMHO... go single cause you sound like your engagement is far from stable. IMHO, it is almost guaranteed to be a mistake to jump into a marriage cause your afraid you might be alone later.
 
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I know there's been a lot of talk on here lately about being in relationships, so I apologize in advance, but I'm thinking of breaking off my engagement, and I was just wondering if I could get some pros/cons of being single vs. being married as a surgery resident. I am by no means basing my decision about my relationship on the replies to this thread, but I am thinking that maybe my decision is a little rash and being single as a surgery resident won't be as good as I think it will, so I just wanted some first hand experience. Thanks, and please refrain from judging me to be a bad person. I really do feel awful about the situation and my post here does not mean I'm taking it lightly.

Two words: Internet Dating.

Now that things like eharmony have lost some of the negative connotation, I think it's the key to some single surgery residents finding happiness. I have 2 different success stories with girls I know, one from Wichita and one from St. Louis.

Of course, your specific personal situation should have everything to do with whether or not you want to marry that person, and not with surgery residency, but you know that...
 
I'm under the impression that she wants to break off the engagement but is having second thoughts because she thinks being single during residency may be more horrible than staying engaged to someone she's having doubts about.

Funny.. I was going to start a thread with a similar title. Though I'll be single going INTO surgery residency and that TERRIFIES me because I feel there can't be much time to meet new people or date :(

Personally I think married students/residents have an edge, especially if they're married to someone else in medicine or with a very stable lifestyle b/c you have someone you can get emotional support from and you spend less time partying :p Though, maybe this is a grass is greener type of situation. I imagine if you're in a bad marriage its probably a lot more hellish than being single.

Bingo. We've been together for 8 years, since we were in high school, and for a while I've been feeling like I need to be on my own and see what it's like to date other people. Also, we've both changed a lot, as people tend to do over 8 years, and we've become very different. We got engaged last year, but I really don't think I can marry him having these thoughts. I think we at least need to take a break for a while. I just always thought he'd be there and he would make the isolation and exhaustion of a surgery residency more bearable. So it's just a little frightening to me to not have someone there that you can rely on, because I'm sure having a constant support really does make residency easier to live with. At the same time, I think it would be exciting to start residency single in a new city and meet lots of different people.

Anyway, that's the story. Thanks for all the advice. I suppose I have some thinking to do...
 
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This is called cold feet, and it's universal.

The fact that you didn't mention a single specific concern or impediment to marrying this guy, but rather cited a general concern that you might be missing out on studlier fish in the sea, is virtually pathognomonic.
 
I know there's been a lot of talk on here lately about being in relationships, so I apologize in advance, but I'm thinking of breaking off my engagement, and I was just wondering if I could get some pros/cons of being single vs. being married as a surgery resident. I am by no means basing my decision about my relationship on the replies to this thread, but I am thinking that maybe my decision is a little rash and being single as a surgery resident won't be as good as I think it will, so I just wanted some first hand experience. Thanks, and please refrain from judging me to be a bad person. I really do feel awful about the situation and my post here does not mean I'm taking it lightly.

No offense but I've noticed this kind of rationale with women. Whereas guys are either 1) hardcore playboys/wannabe playboys, OR 2) willing to invest just about anything into the one they care about.... women are frequently the latter, until a life decision comes about. The way I see it is. You stick with the one you love until you don't love them anymore/feel the same passion/or cannot possible see yourselves together in the future. It pains me to see these decisions made based on career-moves/relocations.... but what can you do.

My opinion. If you are already having thoughts about this then its too late. Just get it over with and spare you/him/and your family the pain and discomfort. If it was someone who you thought you should be with then you wouldn't be having these thoughts, cause you know you would make it through together. Just MHO.
 
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Bingo. We've been together for 8 years, since we were in high school, and for a while I've been feeling like I need to be on my own and see what it's like to date other people. Also, we've both changed a lot, as people tend to do over 8 years, and we've become very different. We got engaged last year, but I really don't think I can marry him having these thoughts. I think we at least need to take a break for a while. I just always thought he'd be there and he would make the isolation and exhaustion of a surgery residency more bearable. So it's just a little frightening to me to not have someone there that you can rely on, because I'm sure having a constant support really does make residency easier to live with. At the same time, I think it would be exciting to start residency single in a new city and meet lots of different people.

Anyway, that's the story. Thanks for all the advice. I suppose I have some thinking to do...

On the other hand, being in a bad relationship makes residency more stressful with a possibility that you won't be able to concentrate on your work as well. You need to look at both sides because either outcome is possible. When it comes to relationships, having to put too much energy into them doesn't work well neither does ignoring them.
 
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You guys are awesome. Thanks again. I feel like I have been needing to put too much effort into the relationship, and I'm only happy maybe 70% of the time. The rest of the time I'm not just indifferent but actually mad or upset with him. I just think we aren't as compatible as we used to be, and we're kidding ourselves if we think we can make it work for a lifetime. I do still really love him, though, which makes it hard to think about not having him in my life.

I suppose in order for you to get the whole story I should tell you that while I've been feeling this way off and on for several years, I only started seriously considering breaking things off after I met a guy who I really liked and who I could see myself having a relationship with. Nothing will come of it- he's getting married- so I'm not thinking of ending things to pursue a new relationship, but it made me step back and realize that I've probably just become complacent in my current relationship and scared to leave, but that if we did break up I could definitely meet someone better suited for me.

I apperciate all the support because I have never done anything like this, never having been in another relationship, and it's really scary. I feel a little lost, so it's nice to know the opinions of impartial third parties. I think I'm probably just going to tell him we need to take a break within the next few weeks. I feel like that may be a good way of finding out my true feelings about the relationship.
 
This is called cold feet, and it's universal.

The fact that you didn't mention a single specific concern or impediment to marrying this guy, but rather cited a general concern that you might be missing out on studlier fish in the sea, is virtually pathognomonic.

Ok, here a a few concerns:
-He drinks A LOT and has friends who drink A LOT
-He is an a** to me in front of friends, both mine and his.
-He has gained 40 pounds since we first started dating (maybe this makes me superficial, but I do care about my health and how I look and I feel that other people should, too)
-He has no career direction. He's going to school part time (communications major) and working part time in an unrelated field, and he has no idea what he wants to do with his life. And he's 27. This didn't used to bother me, but after realizing the amount of sweat and tears my career is going to require, I don't think I could watch him not do something goal-directed with his life.

I guess I've always been concerned with these things, I just ignored them until now or told myself that I love him so I can overlook them, which is becomnig hard to do.
 
You don't think he is good enough for you. You are probably right. It is probably better with him around than being alone but that isn't fair to the guy in the long run. I was down the same road. It sounds arrogant, but values and socioeconomic class are important in a relationship. Having fun and liking the same movies are less important.
 
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...I'm only happy maybe 70% of the time. The rest of the time I'm not just indifferent but actually mad or upset with him. I just think we aren't as compatible as we used to be, and we're kidding ourselves if we think we can make it work for a lifetime...
...
-He is an a** to me...
I think recognition that you have no real longterm compatibility is enough reason to suck it up, break-up, and move on. You can apparently find numerous additional reasons, though not necessary.... but, if he has no respect for you, in addition to lack of compatibility, that should be enough.

Breaking up sucks. However, for whatever reason you may have for doing it, staying together with the wrong person is torture. I would further say... everyone else will loose respect for you if proceeding with marriage under the circumstances you describe. Nobody wants a martyr. Marrying someone as you describe shows clear judgement difficulties at best.
 
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I suppose in order for you to get the whole story I should tell you that while I've been feeling this way off and on for several years, I only started seriously considering breaking things off after I met a guy who I really liked and who I could see myself having a relationship with.

Don't use advice from SDN to dictate your relationship decisions. Talk to your friends and family. Above all, talk to your boyfriend and express your concerns if you haven't already.


On a side note, I'd be willing to bet that you very quickly fall into a new relationship that is super-serious. Some people are just serial monogamists.
 
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...-He is an a** to me in front of friends, both mine and his...
Don't use advice from SDN to dictate your relationship decisions. Talk to your friends and family. Above all, talk to your boyfriend and express your concerns if you haven't already...
I agree.... but, IMHO, this is a very easy one. If she has been in ralationship any length of time and he regularly shows her disrespect as described, talking to him is not going to change it.:idea:

Still, I do agree and am amazed at how often folks use online chat forums for advise. I am more amazed at when I speak to folks that seem to follow on-line advise as if it was from a trusted friend family member....:eek:
 
I think you should break up with him and date me. I will be very respectful and promise not to gain weight as I have started a regular exercise routine. I enjoy the outdoors and playing sports. Feel free to PM me for my contact info.
 
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Dear PA Girl,

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever...(how many evers is that? I was hoping for 50 or a thou) tolerate fundamental/foundational deficiencies in a relationship for fear of not having someone in your life.

You are young, represent probably the top 1 or 2% of the skill/intellect pool in this country (not to mention income potential) and you are embarking on a new phase in your career. Of all people, YOU have NO reason to put up with that sort of bullsh*t.

I watched a lot of my classmates tie the knot 4th year for fear of being unable to initiate and sustain a new relationship in residency and REGRET it. Character flaws (inability to treat you as a person etc) such as the ones you mentioned should never be enabled.

You're much better off being single than being in a non-relationship relationship. And I know plenty of female surgery residents who found their life partners in residency. Many of whom were in the same boat as you are now. One in particular (a female ortho resident) comes to mind who met and married her PRS resident husband after she broke up with her dead beat mechanic well-when-are-you-going-to-be-done-studying boyfriend of 5 years.

Dating in surgery residency is not an oxymoron. For some in fact, it may not happen but for residency.
 
You're only 23 years old. I think your worries about not ever having dated other people and being complacent in your relationship are quite legitimate-- you've been together since you were 15/16?
 
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Studies show that 100% of boyfriends that take out their frustrations on their own lack of progress in life by keeping their female in check during social situations completely stop this behavior when their female becomes even more powerful/achieves a higher social standing.
 
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I suppose in order for you to get the whole story I should tell you that while I've been feeling this way off and on for several years, I only started seriously considering breaking things off after I met a guy who I really liked and who I could see myself having a relationship with.

Be careful of things like this. Crushes come and go, and no relationship is completely immune to them. Just remember that 'new car smell' is always more exciting than that 8 year old hoopty you've been driving around in, but the old car might be the more reliable of the two ;)

Ok, here a a few concerns:
-He drinks A LOT and has friends who drink A LOT
-He is an a** to me in front of friends, both mine and his.
-He has gained 40 pounds since we first started dating (maybe this makes me superficial, but I do care about my health and how I look and I feel that other people should, too)
-He has no career direction. He's going to school part time (communications major) and working part time in an unrelated field, and he has no idea what he wants to do with his life. And he's 27. This didn't used to bother me, but after realizing the amount of sweat and tears my career is going to require, I don't think I could watch him not do something goal-directed with his life.

These are far more concerning issues, and are very reasonable incompatibilities to base a breakup on. It sounds like you've been with the guy a long time, and have been waiting for him to start growing up, and it hasn't happened. Some guys just get stuck in a very very VERY extended adolescence. This combined with the lack of respect you've indicated is concerning. If you're unhappy and don't see the situation resolving, well, you gotta do what you gotta do...

All that said, this is internet advice, and should be taken well salted as I'm sure you know. Best of luck to you though! :)
 
Studies show that 100% of boyfriends that take out their frustrations on their own lack of progress in life by keeping their female in check during social situations completely stop this behavior when their female becomes even more powerful/achieves a higher social standing.

The sarcasm is beautiful :)

On the same note however I would actually predict that as she graduates with her MD, moves through residency, becomes an attending, starts making the big bucks, etc., he will likely start inventing changes in her attitude, and accuse her of being 'stuck-up', 'thinking she's better than him', 'trying to dominate him just because she makes more money', 'thinking she's some kind of big shot', etc. and will actually leave HER 2/2 these projected flaws. And will try to get alimony, of course.
 
From the mists of time...



Holy crap, you're only 23 years old! I think your worries about not ever having dated other people and being complacent in your relationship are quite legitimate-- you've been together since you were 15/16?

Yes, I suppose I should have mentioned that I'm really young and have never dated anyone else. That's why I kind of feel like I need to take advantage of my twenties and see what else is out there. But when you've been with someone for what seems like a lifetime, it's pretty much like getting divorced. It is a major, major thing to break up. I am really scared, but hopefully I will find the courage.
 
Ha ha, I had to look up what this meant, and it made me laugh. Very funny and true. :D

I had to google "ttiuwp" too, :oops:.

PAgirl, I've been following your thread, don't have any new advice to give you, but whatever you do, I hope it turns out to be the best for you, and you end up having no guilt or regrets.
 
this is a tough thing to do, you're gonna regret it off and on for a while after... but if you aren't happy and don't see yourself being happy then its definitely the right thing to do. i do recommend dating more people, but a decision for a breakup should not be made solely on this (and i see it clearly is not). everyone is unique. i myself thought i found someone that i matched with perfectly with but after a few years it ended due to pending distance. its tough to know that you can't be with someone that you get along with so well... so be positive and firm when you make the choice. that said, the future is exciting. new people, new opportunities, new failures, new successes. IMO the most important things in life (besides family) are meeting new people and new experiences... both of which are inhibited by such a long relationship. good luck with life cause its about to begin.
 
From the mists of time...



Holy crap, you're only 23 years old! I think your worries about not ever having dated other people and being complacent in your relationship are quite legitimate-- you've been together since you were 15/16?
It works for some people. Started dating my wife when I was 16, and I just turned 26.
 
He has gained 40 pounds since we first started dating

I guess that isn't 40 lbs of chiseled muscle he's gained by working out in his apparently copious free time and gorging himself on protein shakes. That would have been better with pictures.
 
Some of the most stable and mentally sane (read: sociable, less irritable, more tolerant of the mundane BS) gen surg residents I have met were either in committed relationships or were married.

But the level of camaraderie seems to be strongest among the single guys. Maybe it's a coping mechanism or an instance of like minds thinking alike, but you can't argue with the fact that folks that get along well will tend to enjoy their work a lot better, especially seeing as our co-workers will be the ones we see most throughout these 5 or more years of training.

It's just something I noticed. I'm not saying being single or married is better than the other during residency because I have no idea as a single student, all I'm saying is that there are good points favoring either situation.

Perhaps someone with more experience can shed more light?
 
Obviously the camaraderie will vary from program to program and between residents but I have to say that, IMHO, the single residents did tend to bond more.

Even those of us with SOs did as we spent more time socializing, hanging out than those with families (ie, children). It also depended on who the SO was - there were some who enjoyed hanging out with us and some that did not (let's face it - we talk about surgery all the time, which can be boring for most others).

The married with children residents tended to leave as soon as they could, spent down time during call on the phone with the spouse and didn't tend to come to social events as much.
 
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Residency is painful enough without also being in a relationship that isn't working!
 
hey pagirl,

i have to echo the general sentiment of everyone else: if you're not happy and you think (feel in your heart, know, etc. ... however you want to say it) you won't be happy with the person--break it off.

i got engaged prior to medschool, and i think part of the motivation, among many competing motivations, was a fear i would be alone and have no time to find another person in medschool / be unable to cope with the stress of medschool as a single person. i certainly regret hurting the other person by breaking it off--seriously, getting engaged was probably the biggest mistake i've made in my life because it hurt someone deeply--but i know it was the right decision... for both of us.

as an undergrad facing medschool, i was certain i would have no time for relationships. i was wrong. you'd be surprised how well the sex-drive, and the drive for companionship, allows you to heal and eventually find someone new. (meant to be blunt, not insensitive.)

i wish you the best.

p.s. i'm going to start gensurg as an intern next year, too. good luck to both of us, eh?
 
hey pagirl,

i have to echo the general sentiment of everyone else: if you're not happy and you think (feel in your heart, know, etc. ... however you want to say it) you won't be happy with the person--break it off.

i got engaged prior to medschool, and i think part of the motivation, among many competing motivations, was a fear i would be alone and have no time to find another person in medschool / be unable to cope with the stress of medschool as a single person. i certainly regret hurting the other person by breaking it off--seriously, getting engaged was probably the biggest mistake i've made in my life because it hurt someone deeply--but i know it was the right decision... for both of us.

as an undergrad facing medschool, i was certain i would have no time for relationships. i was wrong. you'd be surprised how well the sex-drive, and the drive for companionship, allows you to heal and eventually find someone new. (meant to be blunt, not insensitive.)

i wish you the best.

p.s. i'm going to start gensurg as an intern next year, too. good luck to both of us, eh?

Thanks for the advice and the well wishes, but actually I am still a lowly third year. Best of luck to you, though. :)
 
The most understanding person would be another MD, one in a difficult specialty or a surgical subspecialty. Even GU or ophthalmology would understand.
 
The most understanding person would be another MD, one in a difficult specialty or a surgical subspecialty. Even GU or ophthalmology would understand.

Agreed. They are the only ones that will truly understand that when you come home after a killer call, and collapse on the couch after saying two words, its not because you don't love them, or aren't happy to see them, you're just destroyed. All the divorces in my program have been with people whose significant others worked considerably less hours than them.
 
Good thread, with a lot of good advice. I hope I'm not de-railing the convo too much...But what about residents dating other hospital staff. I figure there are tons of single nurses in the hospital (sorry to the OP since this may not apply to her case specifically--I know she is a hetero female and most nurses are female). Do residents date within in the hospital much? Or is it frowned upon? Or do hospital staff have any kind of reserve when dating residents--seeing how they know the lifestyle of a resident and/or they don't want to bring their personal lives into their work???

BTW to the OP: based on what you've said, you deserve someone much better. Someone who will make you grow as a person, support you in your goals, and be a positive influence in your life. This guy sounds like a future leech and will probably only make your life more difficult. You have to ask yourself if you are "better" with or without this person in your life. Sorry--just my 2 cents. I know there are no easy answers.
 
You can date a nurse if you want, most of them are up for it since a lot of them actually have the goal to meet a physician and then retire. (Nurses will get upset at this characterization, but it occurs quite often.) The only problem is that this means that some nurses have been around a lot. Especially the extremely attractive ones. I knew one nurse who was drop-dead gorgeous and yet she was known to have slept with at least three residents in her search for someone who would marry her. So you'd be going into it knowing that you were at minimum the fourth person in your program who had nailed her. Also, if you have a bad break-up with a nurse, it'll just make your job torture.
 
...I hope I'm not de-railing the convo too much...But what about residents dating other hospital staff. I figure there are tons of single nurses in the hospital ...Do residents date within in the hospital much? Or is it frowned upon? Or do hospital staff have any kind of reserve when dating residents...
:hijacked:
Yes, some residents do date nurses and physical therapists and respiratory therapists, and lunch/cafeteria staff... Some of these folks specifically look for residents and some specifically avoid residents.... Dating hospital staff is frowned upon when it results in unprofessional conduct....
 
You can date a nurse if you want, most of them are up for it since a lot of them actually have the goal to meet a physician and then retire. (Nurses will get upset at this characterization, but it occurs quite often.) The only problem is that this means that some nurses have been around a lot. Especially the extremely attractive ones. I knew one nurse who was drop-dead gorgeous and yet she was known to have slept with at least three residents in her search for someone who would marry her. So you'd be going into it knowing that you were at minimum the fourth person in your program who had nailed her. Also, if you have a bad break-up with a nurse, it'll just make your job torture.

Thanks Glade,

I just found this thread, too funny:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=181135

To the OP, I guess what I was getting at is that there is still plenty of opportunity to meet someone who will be a better companion. All the best!
 
Unfortunately, the hospital is more of a guys' playground. Other than the physicians, I bet 75% of the people in the hospital are female. Pretty much the female residents are left hitting on the maintenance men and the male transporters.
 
i think you should break up with him and date me. I will be very respectful and promise not to gain weight as i have started a regular exercise routine. I enjoy the outdoors and playing sports. Feel free to pm me for my contact info.

ftw!
 
You can date a nurse if you want, most of them are up for it since a lot of them actually have the goal to meet a physician and then retire. (Nurses will get upset at this characterization, but it occurs quite often.) The only problem is that this means that some nurses have been around a lot. Especially the extremely attractive ones. I knew one nurse who was drop-dead gorgeous and yet she was known to have slept with at least three residents in her search for someone who would marry her. So you'd be going into it knowing that you were at minimum the fourth person in your program who had nailed her. Also, if you have a bad break-up with a nurse, it'll just make your job torture.

She slept with 3 people in her search for a spouse? :eek: Sluuut!

;)
 
No, she slept with three people in our residency (that we knew of). There aren't that many people in a residency, so for a single person to have slept with three people is rather significant. Also, a little pathetic. I mean, if she had slept with three people and one of them was a resident, that would be different. She was clearly trying to catch a doctor. She was extremely hot, actually, which is why guys were sleeping with her. But she was also extremely b**chy (which she usually got away with because she was that attractive). But nobody would actually marry her.
 
No, she slept with three people in our residency (that we knew of). There aren't that many people in a residency, so for a single person to have slept with three people is rather significant. Also, a little pathetic. I mean, if she had slept with three people and one of them was a resident, that would be different. She was clearly trying to catch a doctor. She was extremely hot, actually, which is why guys were sleeping with her. But she was also extremely b**chy (which she usually got away with because she was that attractive). But nobody would actually marry her.

I see this a lot with the very young nurses (21-24 years old). I see it every July when the new residents and new nurses start working here. Becoming friends with the residents rather than hooking up with them, I see all the games they play and wonder how these girls fall for this BS. They think they will be the one to tame them, but sadly, they never learn.

As for this girl, there are 2 sides of every story. Did these guys lie to her or take advantage of her in any way? I think its very different if this girl dated them for a length of time at any point than if she had one night stands with all of them.
 
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