Should this man be allowed to treat patients?

[RocuROMANium]

He went to jail as a fake doctor. Now he’s a real one: The saga of Adam Litwin, MD

When someone mistook him for a resident at UCLA Medical Center, he didn't correct them.

www.google.com

He will have a near impossible chance to gain a residency spot just due to where he went to school but when you add in his past crimes, it’s probably almost zero. Do you think he has truly been rehabilitated? Does he have a psychological issue that just shouldn’t be tolerated in the hospital?

Personally, I wouldn’t want him anywhere near a patient but what do you all think?

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[VA Hopeful Dr]

He went to jail as a fake doctor. Now he’s a real one: The saga of Adam Litwin, MD

When someone mistook him for a resident at UCLA Medical Center, he didn't correct them.

www.google.com

He will have a near impossible chance to gain a residency spot just due to where he went to school but when you add in his past crimes, it’s probably almost zero. Do you think he has truly been rehabilitated? Does he have a psychological issue that just shouldn’t be tolerated in the hospital?

Personally, I wouldn’t want him anywhere near a patient but what do you all think?

20 years ago, was punished for it, never actually did anything involving a patient other than watching surgery?

If he gets into residency, who cares?

 

[Crayola227]

20 years ago, was punished for it, never actually did anything involving a patient other than watching surgery?

If he gets into residency, who cares?

Did you actually read the article? He forged prescriptions in his time. Later, he forged a LOR, and forged medical exam scores. He also had a shoplifting charge. The guy has a LIST of serious incidents of lying and cheating and stealing.

I'm just shocked by your reaction. It's not what I would have guessed after reading the article.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Did you actually read the article? He forged prescriptions in his time. Later, he forged a LOR, and forged medical exam scores. He also had a shoplifting charge. The guy has a LIST of serious incidents of lying and cheating and stealing.

I'm just shocked by your reaction. It's not what I would have guessed after reading the article.

"Lambert, the retired prosecutor, said investigators never found evidence that Litwin cared for patients."

People screw up. Seems like he's been on the straight and narrow since actually starting medical school. And prior to this he didn't do anything that could actually harm patients.

So meh.

That said, I also cannot fault the Missouri medical board for not getting him a license. but I would also not be furious if some other state decided to give him a chance.

 

[Crayola227]

This guy is scary narcissistic and his past pattern of behavior - the best predictor of future behavior, is past behavior. That might not be that predictive when N = 1, but when it equals numerous crimes and frauds spanning decades, some of which were after extensive counseling...

This guy has the reverse-Imposter syndrome. He clearly thinks it's OK in his marrow to just fake his way through it all.

At the end of all this, he says how much he longs to see patients. Um, I don't think someone who is so OK with being a fake should see patients. He's clearly OK with short cuts. What every narcissist needs is an audience, and to my mind that is what is really motivating this guy to want to interact with patients.

Most physicians, it seems to me, gets some narcissistic supply from patient care. However, most of us are saddled with an Imposter syndrome that spurns us on to be the real deal - to have the real stuff, the knowledge, the training, to do right, to cross the I's and T's. Conscientiousness - the concern with doing things right, or correctly, above board.

He's shown himself to be a narcissist, one who has failed rehabilitation, which isn't surprising, on numerous occasions. Put a fork in him, he should be done.

In some ways he reminds me of one of the only true sociopaths I ever met in my life, a fellow medical student (now graduate). I looked them up recently to see what they were up to. Nothing good. I would say more but I would be terrified to be identified by them.

 

[Crayola227]

"Lambert, the retired prosecutor, said investigators never found evidence that Litwin cared for patients."

People screw up. Seems like he's been on the straight and narrow since actually starting medical school. And prior to this he didn't do anything that could actually harm patients.

So meh.

That said, I also cannot fault the Missouri medical board for not getting him a license. but I would also not be furious if some other state decided to give him a chance.

Did you miss all the other crimes and frauds? It wasn't one screw up. He was denied a license because no one can really believe he was at UCLA posing as a resident that long, and on rounds, and never treated a patient. Of course UCLA is not going to go out of their way to prove he was. AND you're missing that he forged a prescription. If forging prescriptions isn't an attempt to treat someone without a license, I'm not sure what is.

 

[Crayola227]

So in 1998 or thereabouts, we seriously believe that a surgical program had him watch surgeries, and not once did he lay his hands on a patient? Not once did he hold a piece of gauze on someone's wound, or hold a retractor? I mean, as an MS1 I did those things, and not even in busy scenarios. Like, I didn't have to seek out that kind of contact, it was foisted on me.

ETA: If it's true he never scrubbed, he may never have held a retractor. However I find it hard to believe he participated in rounds for 9 mos (by his own counting) and never laid hands on a patient, during surgical rounds where there are frequent dressing changes if nothing else. We only have his word that he did so. I don't think his word is worth much given he continued lying about his medical career even after jail and counseling.

 

[Crayola227]

The part about him wearing a lab coat with a silk-screened picture of his own face... which was part of what got him caught, I mean, that is just priceless. Narcissism at its finest.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

So in 1998 or thereabouts, we seriously believe that a surgical program had him watch surgeries, and not once did he lay his hands on a patient? Not once did he hold a piece of gauze on someone's wound, or hold a retractor? I mean, as an MS1 I did those things, and not even in busy scenarios. Like, I didn't have to seek out that kind of contact, it was foisted on me.

ETA: If it's true he never scrubbed, he may never have held a retractor. However I find it hard to believe he participated in rounds for 9 mos (by his own counting) and never laid hands on a patient, during surgical rounds where there are frequent dressing changes if nothing else. We only have his word that he did so. I don't think his word is worth much given he continued lying about his medical career even after jail and counseling.

His word, the prosecutor's word, and the numerous residents at the time who don't remember him on rounds or in the OR.

But you're right and they are clearly all wrong.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Did you miss all the other crimes and frauds? It wasn't one screw up. He was denied a license because no one can really believe he was at UCLA posing as a resident that long, and on rounds, and never treated a patient. Of course UCLA is not going to go out of their way to prove he was. AND you're missing that he forged a prescription. If forging prescriptions isn't an attempt to treat someone without a license, I'm not sure what is.

Of course not. That's why I writing prescriptions for friends and family is a No-No, it's argued that you cannot form a proper doctor patient relationship.

My state board says this: A practitioner cannot usually acquire a valid physician/patient relationship with himself or herself nor with a member of his or her immediate family.

So no, this isn't treating a patient since the prescription was for a friend to obtain tranquilizers (I'm assuming this means a benzo).

 

[RocuROMANium]

The part about him wearing a lab coat with a silk-screened picture of his own face... which was part of what got him caught, I mean, that is just priceless. Narcissism at its finest.

Yea that was extremely bizarre and a perfect representation of his narcissism. I have never heard of people doing that on their lab coat before...

 

[Crayola227]

I've listed in what I think is chronological order, what infractions he's had:

-shoplifting
-forged an LOR from NBME, faked an exam score

later
-forging a prescription
-stealing state property (xrays, scapel)
-impersonating a doctor

And we only have his word that he never touched or treated a patient, although not sure what forging prescriptions for someone else could be called. Might not meet the legal definition of practicing medicine without a license or treating a pateint. Nevermind the other ethics physicians are bound by, such as confidentiality, that was violated by his choosing to be there. They never consented to a fake doctor being privy to what he was privy to. It's a gorram violation consent. Many would argue that starting a career in medicine already having a history of violating patient consent... makes no sense whatsoever. He put his desire to be a fake doctor over the trust and well-being of actual patients.

-jail/counseling

-lied to his future wife that he was a cardiologist, goes by the nickname "Doc"

That doesn't sound like contrition to me.

 

[Crayola227]

His word, the prosecutor's word, and the numerous residents at the time who don't remember him on rounds or in the OR.

But you're right and they are clearly all wrong.

I think they are all clearly butt-covering.

I find it hard to believe, and so did the medical board that denied him a license. That said, the point stands that he has exhibited a pattern of behavior that spans more than the "one" 6 or 9 mo stint (depending on what you believe, the prosecutors vs the guilty party), that makes me unable to believe a word that comes out of his mouth. I think credibility matters and so does the medical board.

Maybe he never touched anyone. Maybe the bigger point is that he has a pattern of behavior that makes it difficult to believe anything he says, and that's just one example in my view.

 

[Crayola227]

Yea that was extremely bizarre and a perfect representation of his narcissism. I have never heard of people doing that on their lab coat before...

what's hilarious is that I'm wondering if what he said was true... people coming up to him wondering where they could get one of their own....

 

[Crayola227]

Careers in medicine are ended over far less, and less fairly.

I would be furious if he ever got a medical license. This guy should not be free to see women naked or put his fingers in their hoo-has or touch naked children or sedate people, all in the name of medical treatment. I don't trust him to be in any position of power or trust.

Here's the thing. Do you really trust him alone with a toddler giving them ketamine to reduce a fracture? I know one ED physician who got brought down for putting his genitals in the mouths of such sedated patients. It was hard to believe he was able to get away with it in the bustling and open-ish atmosphere of the average ED exam room, but he did. I'm not saying that's what this guy does, would do, or would be in a position to do exactly. The point is, this is the level of trust we need to have in providers, and the level of badness that can happen when the wrong people are trusted.

If you wouldn't let this guy be alone in a room with your unconscious small child, then he has no business in medicine. Period.

I couldn't bring myself to let this guy touch me or anyone I cared about. Nope nope nope.

 

[RocuROMANium]

The biggest issue I have is that he displayed worrisome behavior AFTER he was prosecuted for impersonating a physician. He told his future wife that he was a cardiologist and let all of his friends and family call him "doc." If he truly turned his life around, he wouldn't have told those lies and he would have cringed if anyone called him a doc prematurely.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

He went to a bottom of the barrel medical school. It took him 6 years to graduate. He has an irreg behavior notation on his NBME exams. He has a felony on his record. He has a long string of bad behaviors, all linked by lying and overstating his skills.

He's a program's nightmare. I'm not worried about him molesting people. I worry that he will overstep his skills -- he's going to try to fix things and not call for help. He's not going to recognize his limitations.

No state is giving him a license, so I don't think you need to worry. The Missouri thing is probably an app for an Assistant Physician -- he wouldn't qualify for a license in any state without GME experience.

So now he's applying to psych. Someone should have told him that psych is more competitive than FM. And they will see his narcissism for what it is.

 

[Crayola227]

Forgive me, my point wasn't that this guy was going to molest people. Just, that he cannot be trusted. I'm giving extreme examples of the level of trust that is needed with any doctor - I remember in school being told that part of the definition of trust and integrity one needs in a physician, is that they do the right thing even when no one is watching, no one is policing them except for themselves. I wouldn't leave him alone in a room with anyone I cared about, he cannot ever be trusted to reliably do the right thing every time. Who knows what situation would arise when there is no one to look over his shoulder, and do we trust without a doubt that his own internal moral compass sees to it that he does the right thing?

Sure, this guy might be OK to Rx people their flu shots, but that hardly meets the standard. Just because someone is "mostly OK" doesn't make them OK.

 

[Socrates25]

I think this article proves that Caribbean programs are trash and will take anybody willing to pay money. No chance this guy would have ever been accepted to an American MD program.