Should Marijuana Be Legal?

[KinasePro]

I'd like to see double blind clinical trials showing medicinal benefit before legalizing cannabis for medicinal purposes. Thats the standard for all other substances, so we should hold weed to the same standard, right? FDA approval before legalization, IMO.

I personally don't care whether someone uses weed or not, so I'm for legalizing it from a civil liberties perspective. But from a policy perspective, it'd be a loss for public health in the same way nicotine and alcohol are such huge problems. I'd be shocked if total health care costs did not rise as a result of legalization.

All that being said, it's hard to make an argument for criminalizing weed, but allowing nicotine and alcohol.

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[peteB]

I prefer to stick to legalizing things with minimal public health impacts. heart attacks are generally important public health impacts.

Cigarettes cause quite a lot of public health issues including heart attacks, yet they are legal. Why?

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

It is kinda bulls*** that companies have to pay insurance for employees who inflict it on themselves. Obesity should not be legally protected. You got the cash to stuff your face all day you can pay the doctor bill too

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

Oh me too. I believe these penalties are totally reasonable. I'm not happy about the fact that the ACA limits the multiplier you can put on tobacco users for their health insurance. Some strong tobacco lobbying right there.

 

[NickNaylor]

I actually agree with weight/BMI limits on doctors. It's absolutely absurd for an obese doctor to be telling a patient he/she needs to lose weight. Speeding tickets are not relevant. Doctors don't routinely instruct patients to obey the speed limit. They do, however, instruct patients to quit smoking and lose weight. So yes, I agree with the no tobacco policy and I would agree with a reasonable BMI policy too. I don't expect all doctors to have 6 packs but a doctor with a BMI of 30 is ridiculous.

If you can't take care of yourself, you have no business charging money to tell others how to take care of themselves. No one likes a hypocrite, and if I was hiring staff for my hospital I definitely would not hire one.

Practice what you preach.

What if the obesity is secondary to an unmodifable disorder? Those people are just SOL? Should we start doing lipid panels on prospective hires to see if they practice what they preach?

I understand what you're saying about trying to not be hypocritical, but welcome to the real world where most people have two faces. No one should have to be a saint for the purposes of doing their job.

(sent from my phone)

 

[JP2740]

What if the obesity is secondary to an unmodifable disorder? Those people are just SOL? Should we start doing lipid panels on prospective hires to see if they practice what they preach?

I understand what you're saying about trying to not be hypocritical, but welcome to the real world where most people have two faces. No one should have to be a saint for the purposes of doing their job.

(sent from my phone)

That includes smoking. You can tell someone as a doctor to not smoke, and also smoke yourself. Your job is to improve their health. What the hell does it matter that you smoke? I don't think it's being a hypocrite. The patient is there for health advice or treatment of a condition, and you're there to give it. I know some people have been smoking from high school. It isn't exactly an easy thing to quit and many don't really want to quit. What about people like me? I smoke when I go out w my buddies, who cares? That somehow means I can't tell patients to not smoke without being labelled as a hypocrite?

Some people on this board need to get out and meet some people. We're not all cut out of the same mold and dealt with the same **** before.

And there's plenty of drugs out there that cause more harm than good, but are probably still around because pharma said so... BITCH

 

[peteB]

That includes smoking. You can tell someone as a doctor to not smoke, and also smoke yourself. Your job is to improve their health. What the hell does it matter that you smoke? I don't think it's being a hypocrite. The patient is there for health advice or treatment of a condition, and you're there to give it. I know some people have been smoking from high school. It isn't exactly an easy thing to quit and many don't really want to quit. What about people like me? I smoke when I go out w my buddies, who cares? That somehow means I can't tell patients to not smoke without being labelled as a hypocrite?

Some people on this board need to get out and meet some people. We're not all cut out of the same mold and dealt with the same **** before.

And there's plenty of drugs out there that cause more harm than good, but are probably still around because pharma said so... BITCH

It's going to be really really hard to convince someone that smoking is a bad idea when you, the expert of all things health, are smoking yourself. Especially if they see you smoking. What that shows is that you don't believe your own advice. If you actually think smoking is bad and that people should not do it, you wouldn't do it yourself. If you're just saying it because that's what you're paid to do, but you don't actually believe it, why should I, the patient, believe it any more than you do?

So no, you can't seriously get people to quit smoking when you do it yourself. The meaning of your advice is invalidated by the fact that you don't follow it. If you don't take your own advice seriously, why should a patient?

When you give out advice that you don't follow yourself, it loses its value. It's that simple. So if you want to be a doctor, you should follow all the advice you give out. And if you don't, well this is the wrong job for you. Medicine is not just any old job where you read off a script at work and then go do whatever you want in your free time. You're always a doctor. When patients see you out and doing unhealthy stuff, that makes you look like you just aren't serious about health, and if a doctor, who is the expert of health, doesn't find unhealthy behavior to be a problem, why should the average person? It's a really bad image to portray and does damage to both your own effectiveness as a doctor, and public health in general.

 

[JP2740]

It's going to be really really hard to convince someone that smoking is a bad idea when you, the expert of all things health, are smoking yourself. Especially if they see you smoking. What that shows is that you don't believe your own advice. If you actually think smoking is bad and that people should not do it, you wouldn't do it yourself. If you're just saying it because that's what you're paid to do, but you don't actually believe it, why should I, the patient, believe it any more than you do?

So no, you can't seriously get people to quit smoking when you do it yourself. The meaning of your advice is invalidated by the fact that you don't follow it. If you don't take your own advice seriously, why should a patient?

I don't know why the patient would know I smoke. And furthermore, a lot of people who smoke know it's bad for them. Most people eventually try to quit who are regulars.

 

[peteB]

I don't know why the patient would know I smoke. And furthermore, a lot of people who smoke know it's bad for them. Most people eventually try to quit who are regulars.

Because you don't live in separate environments from your patients where you never cross paths. You'll see your patients at the mall, movie theater, restaurants, bars, whatever.

If you know that smoking is bad for you, then you should be trying to quit. If you're a doctor who knows smoking is bad, and isn't trying to quit, but telling patients that they should quit, that just looks bad on you and it sends mixed messages to your patients. Even if you're not in your white coat, your patients still see you as their doctor and what you do outside of the clinic matters.

It's just like trying to convert someone to christianity when you yourself are an athiest. The person will obviously ask- If christianity is really the truth as you say it is, then why don't YOU believe it? You keep telling me I have to show up to church, but how come you don't go?

Same applies to obesity. If you put your obese patients on a strict diet and then they catch you at McDonalds eating two quarter pounders... well... that's not going to be great motivation for them to stay on their diet either.

As a doctor it's your responsibility to do your best to be healthy yourself before you tell others what to do.

 

[peteB]

What if the obesity is secondary to an unmodifable disorder? Those people are just SOL? Should we start doing lipid panels on prospective hires to see if they practice what they preach?

I understand what you're saying about trying to not be hypocritical, but welcome to the real world where most people have two faces. No one should have to be a saint for the purposes of doing their job.

(sent from my phone)

I didn't say they have to be saints. All I said is they have to try as much as they can to practice what they preach. If someone has a genuine medical condition, that is an exception. I don't expect them to be perfect in every way. I don't expect them to never speed or download an MP3 illegally. But when you dedicate your entire life to preach healthy living and get paid by the public to do so, you should be practicing it as well. If you don't, then you're basically a fraud. You're just in this for the money. That's how I feel about it. It's harsh, but it's true.

I don't think medicine is just a job like any other where I clock out and I'm not a doctor anymore. Doctors are always doctors and the principles of health that you believe in while in the hospital don't become invalid when you leave. Maybe some people have two faces, but I don't. If you're my patient and you catch me outside the clinic I'm not going to be smoking or eating junk, but that's just me.

 

[bauber]

I'd like to see double blind clinical trials showing medicinal benefit before legalizing cannabis for medicinal purposes. Thats the standard for all other substances, so we should hold weed to the same standard, right? FDA approval before legalization, IMO.

I personally don't care whether someone uses weed or not, so I'm for legalizing it from a civil liberties perspective. But from a policy perspective, it'd be a loss for public health in the same way nicotine and alcohol are such huge problems. I'd be shocked if total health care costs did not rise as a result of legalization.

All that being said, it's hard to make an argument for criminalizing weed, but allowing nicotine and alcohol.

On your first point it is very difficult for anyone to do scientific studies of that caliber on cannabis because the government steps in and prevents that from happening. See Here.

For all other concerns regarding decriminalization of all drugs See Here.

Also in regards to negative effects of smoking, Vaporizers.

 

[peteB]

In reference to my previous posts- I'd like to quote Gandhi here in saying

"Be the change you want to see in others"

Set a good example for your patients to follow and don't let them catch you smoking or doing otherwise unhealthy things.

You don't want to be the cause of a patient saying- "Well doctors smoke themselves, so it obviously isn't as bad as they say it is"

 

[NickNaylor]

I didn't say they have to be saints. All I said is they have to try as much as they can to practice what they preach. If someone has a genuine medical condition, that is an exception. I don't expect them to be perfect in every way. I don't expect them to never speed or download an MP3 illegally. But when you dedicate your entire life to preach healthy living and get paid by the public to do so, you should be practicing it as well. If you don't, then you're basically a fraud. You're just in this for the money. That's how I feel about it. It's harsh, but it's true.

I don't think medicine is just a job like any other where I clock out and I'm not a doctor anymore. Doctors are always doctors and the principles of health that you believe in while in the hospital don't become invalid when you leave. Maybe some people have two faces, but I don't. If you're my patient and you catch me outside the clinic I'm not going to be smoking or eating junk, but that's just me.

You do realize the problem here though, right? Is the patient going to ask the physician why he's obese? If he doesn't, isn't your fear of not practicing what you preach still true?

Again, in a perfect world I agree with you (the Gandhi quote is touching). However I find it a bit childish to think that engaging in unhealthy behavior means you're unfit to be a doctor. Everyone does unhealthy behaviors some of the time. Everyone is a hypocrite to some extent. To think you somehow are not while others are is laughable.

 

[evilbooyaa]

pete, all I will say is I think you have an idealistic view of what you expect physicians to be, something that isn't really the practice in the real world.

You seem really passionate about doctors practicing what they preach. Can you honestly say that you've always practiced what you preach to your patients?

Is there no difference between the guy who smokes 2 packs a day and the guy who might go through a pack every 2 weeks? How about the guy who might eat two quarter pounders every day vs the guy who eats two quarter pounders once every 2 weeks?

Is the world as black and white in terms of setting examples as you seem to make it out to be?

 

[Substance]

Cigarettes cause quite a lot of public health issues including heart attacks, yet they are legal. Why?

I have no opinion on the matter of pot legalization.

But to formulate a theory on the above: back when cigarettes were first introduced, they were smoked by the rich. Fifty years ago it was seen as a debonair thing to do. Of course the rich politicians and their rich friends all liked to smoke, hence the preservation of its legality. Though the use of cigarettes has trickled down to the blue-collar worker, their legality has been preserved, probably due to the insane amounts of revenue generated.

Weed's primary users are the lower-class urban dweller and hippy protester, both of whom are the targets of the upper-class' contempt, and both of whom do not have the political power to make their favorite pass-time legal.

There are probably a lot of other underlying political and economic factors that preclude the legalization of marijuana.

 

[peteB]

You do realize the problem here though, right? Is the patient going to ask the physician why he's obese? If he doesn't, isn't your fear of not practicing what you preach still true?

Again, in a perfect world I agree with you (the Gandhi quote is touching). However I find it a bit childish to think that engaging in unhealthy behavior means you're unfit to be a doctor. Everyone does unhealthy behaviors some of the time. Everyone is a hypocrite to some extent. To think you somehow are not while others are is laughable.

Its not childish to expect doctors to have self control and practice what they preach to the highest extent possible. Society holds us to the highest standards and looks to us as experts of healthy living. So we have a responsibility to society to set a good example. Ignoring your responsibilities is actually what is childish. If you don't have enough self control to keep yourself healthy then you really need to think about whether you should be a doctor.

When it comes to health I am not a hypocrite in the least. If you actually met me you'd find I am a health nut. Its laughable that you make judgments about me without even knowing me at all.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Its not childish to expect doctors to have self control and practice what they preach to the highest extent possible. Society holds us to the highest standards and looks to us as experts of healthy living. So we have a responsibility to society to set a good example. Ignoring your responsibilities is actually what is childish. If you don't have enough self control to keep yourself healthy then you really need to think about whether you should be a doctor.

When it comes to health I am not a hypocrite in the least. If you actually met me you'd find I am a health nut. Its laughable that you make judgments about me without even knowing me at all.

no, not childish to hold an expectation. However completely absurd to attempt to link the characteristic and ability. A fat doctor is no more or less equipped to discuss obesity with a patient. The only difference is that the patient MAY use this fallacious cop out.

All your talk of "responsibility" is a little over worked, IMO. Experts in healthy living? Does that mean that microbiologists must actually be microbes in order to be taken seriously?

 

[peteB]

pete, all I will say is I think you have an idealistic view of what you expect physicians to be, something that isn't really the practice in the real world.

You seem really passionate about doctors practicing what they preach. Can you honestly say that you've always practiced what you preach to your patients?

Is there no difference between the guy who smokes 2 packs a day and the guy who might go through a pack every 2 weeks? How about the guy who might eat two quarter pounders every day vs the guy who eats two quarter pounders once every 2 weeks?

Is the world as black and white in terms of setting examples as you seem to make it out to be?

Actually in this case it is. No one needs to smoke at all. It is a choice and as an ambassador for health, it is a bad one to make.

I do always practice what I preach. Its not hard to not smoke. Millions of people don't. Its also not impossible to stay in shape. Millions do that too. If you want to be a doctor you should be one of them. If you can't then find another profession where it doesn't matter.

Don't make people lose their respect and trust for our profession by being a hypocrite.

 

[peteB]

no, not childish to hold an expectation. However completely absurd to attempt to link the characteristic and ability. A fat doctor is no more or less equipped to discuss obesity with a patient. The only difference is that the patient MAY use this fallacious cop out.

All your talk of "responsibility" is a little over worked, IMO. Experts in healthy living? Does that mean that microbiologists must actually be microbes in order to be taken seriously?

No that is an absurd comparison. We are experts in healthy living as far as society is concerned. That's why you see so many products being sold as " doctor approved " or " used by doctors in their homes ". The idea is people look to us as examples to follow for healthy living because we are supposed to know.more about health than anyone else.

 

[NickNaylor]

Its not childish to expect doctors to have self control and practice what they preach to the highest extent possible. Society holds us to the highest standards and looks to us as experts of healthy living. So we have a responsibility to society to set a good example. Ignoring your responsibilities is actually what is childish. If you don't have enough self control to keep yourself healthy then you really need to think about whether you should be a doctor.

When it comes to health I am not a hypocrite in the least. If you actually met me you'd find I am a health nut. Its laughable that you make judgments about me without even knowing me at all.

So you mean to tell me that you have never done and never do any behaviors that could possibly be unhealthy? I highly, highly doubt that - unhealthy behaviors are simply too ubiquitous. And even if YOU do that, I find it extremely unreasonable to expect physicians to literally be Jesus-like with respect to health. That's an entirely unreasonable standard to expect anyone (physicians included) to try and follow.

 

[peteB]

no, not childish to hold an expectation. However completely absurd to attempt to link the characteristic and ability. A fat doctor is no more or less equipped to discuss obesity with a patient. The only difference is that the patient MAY use this fallacious cop out.

All your talk of "responsibility" is a little over worked, IMO. Experts in healthy living? Does that mean that microbiologists must actually be microbes in order to be taken seriously?

Microbiologists don't tell people how to live their lives. A fat doctor may be equipped to advise on obesity but the issue is effectiveness. Would you take a lecture from kim kardashian on chastity and humilty seriously? Would that inspire you to change? Of course not.

 

[SpecterGT260]

No that is an absurd comparison. We are experts in healthy living as far as society is concerned. That's why you see so many products being sold as " doctor approved " or " used by doctors in their homes ". The idea is people look to us as examples to follow for healthy living because we are supposed to know.more about health than anyone else.

you missed me point. Your statement implies that a fat doctor's advice is somehow less sound than a thin doctor's. That is logically absurd as there is no logical connection between BMI and one's knowledge on the subject. If you want to present it as your opinion and expectation that is fine. But to extend it to the ability of the doctor to give good advice is ridiculous. A more reasonable (but still largely hypothetical) argument would be it would affect the doctor's ability to successfully obtain compliance. But this is as of yet unproven and also isnt what you said.

 

[peteB]

So you mean to tell me that you have never done and never do any behaviors that could possibly be unhealthy? I highly, highly doubt that - unhealthy behaviors are simply too ubiquitous. And even if YOU do that, I find it extremely unreasonable to expect physicians to literally be Jesus-like with respect to health. That's an entirely unreasonable standard to expect anyone (physicians included) to try and follow.

Not smoking and being in shape are not " jesus like " millions of people do both. I'm not talking about eating a pack of m&ms once or skipping a day at the gym. You are exaggerating what I said to absurd levels. Smoking however is one of those things you should avoid completely because nicotine is very addictive in many people. Its one of the most addictive substances on earth. We don't want patients to think any amount of smoking is ok because it could lead to a very hard to break addiction.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Microbiologists don't tell people how to live their lives. A fat doctor may be equipped to advise on obesity but the issue is effectiveness. Would you take a lecture from kim kardashian on chastity and humilty seriously? Would that inspire you to change? Of course not.

No, I'd be staring at her knockers

The issue is that you are making statements which depend on an assumption, that practicing what you preach is vital to the practice of medicine, is true. I don't necessarily think it is, nor do I think that failure to do so will significantly impact your patients.

Thin doctors cant get fatties to diet and exercise either. Your p value is going to be greater than 0.05 here

 

[peteB]

you missed me point. Your statement implies that a fat doctor's advice is somehow less sound than a thin doctor's. That is logically absurd as there is no logical connection between BMI and one's knowledge on the subject. If you want to present it as your opinion and expectation that is fine. But to extend it to the ability of the doctor to give good advice is ridiculous. A more reasonable (but still largely hypothetical) argument would be it would affect the doctor's ability to successfully obtain compliance. But this is as of yet unproven and also isnt what you said.

I was talking about the effectiveness of the doctors advice meaning the doctors ability to achieve compliance. You once again didn't fully read my argument.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I was talking about the effectiveness of the doctors advice meaning the doctors ability to achieve compliance. You once again didn't fully read my argument.

You always fall back on this I read your entire post. You are just unaware that you are taking certain things for granted in making your arguments which results in poor arguments .

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[peteB]

Ø

No, I'd be staring at her knockers

The issue is that you are making statements which depend on an assumption, that practicing what you preach is vital to the practice of medicine, is true. I don't necessarily think it is, nor do I think that failure to do so will significantly impact your patients.

Thin doctors cant get fatties to diet and exercise either. Your p value is going to be greater than 0.05 here

I think you are wrong. I guess you also think that parents can be as bad role models as they want but as long as they tell their kids what's right and wrong their actual actions in front of them don't matter. Give me a break.

 

[peteB]

You always fall back on this I read your entire post. You are just unaware that you are taking certain things for granted in making your arguments which results in poor arguments .

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

Poor arguments? You just said a doctor doesn't have to practice what he preaches if a microbiologist doesn't have to become a microbe. That makes absolutely no sense. Don't tell me about poor arguments loool

 

[Acoustic]

I actually agree with weight/BMI limits on doctors. It's absolutely absurd for an obese doctor to be telling a patient he/she needs to lose weight. Speeding tickets are not relevant. Doctors don't routinely instruct patients to obey the speed limit. They do, however, instruct patients to quit smoking and lose weight. So yes, I agree with the no tobacco policy and I would agree with a reasonable BMI policy too. I don't expect all doctors to have 6 packs but a doctor with a BMI of 30 is ridiculous.

If you can't take care of yourself, you have no business charging money to tell others how to take care of themselves. No one likes a hypocrite, and if I was hiring staff for my hospital I definitely would not hire one.

Practice what you preach.

I hate that argument for doctors/BMI and think it is full of so many issues. Saying that a doctor can't tell someone else they need to lose weight themselves comes with the assumption that one can simply decide to lose weight and then have lost it. It's not as simple as being told and doing it, or being told & wanting to do it & doing it. Holding the standard that other doctors should "just have a healthy weight" isn't a good attitude. This isn't just something you can decide. If you replace doctors with patients in the above, it equally doesn't hold weight.

Telling a patient "just lose weight" and expecting it to happen is a gross misunderstanding of the issues of obesity. It isn't sympathetic for patients, and it isn't sympathetic for doctors. It's not like doctors have the monopoly on knowing that obesity is bad. It's common knowledge. So there's no reason to believe that a doctor, with all their knowledge of obesity being bad, should have any more ease with controlling their weight.

It's not an issue of being a "hypocrite". If an overweight doctor were to tell a patient "hey you really need to lose some weight, and it's going to be hard, trust me, it's hard for me too" then bam, you've just instantly connected with your patient and they're much more likely to work with you, rather than against you, on coming towards a solution to get results. Even if it doesn't change them at all, it's much better than "you need to lose weight, just get it done".

 

[SpecterGT260]

For example:

It's going to be really really hard to convince someone that smoking is a bad idea when you, the expert of all things health, are smoking yourself. Especially if they see you smoking. What that shows is that you don't believe your own advice. If you actually think smoking is bad and that people should not do it, you wouldn't do it yourself. If you're just saying it because that's what you're paid to do, but you don't actually believe it, why should I, the patient, believe it any more than you do?

This is a false statement. I am perfectly capable of doing things that I know are bad for me. Doing such activities in no way demonstrates that I don't really believe what I say. At best it demonstrates that I am personally willing to accept the consequences, but not that I believe the consequences don't exist Furthermore, while smoking is a fairly universal example in terms of doctor advice, something like obesity is usually only brought up with people whose symptoms are related to the condition. In that regard, the physician would have to be symptomatic as well in order to be the "hypocrite" you describe. But in reality the advice isnt "you should lose weight because it is good to be thin". The advice is "You should lose weight if you want x, y, and z". That statement conveniently side-steps any potential for hypocrisy

So no, you can't seriously get people to quit smoking when you do it yourself. The meaning of your advice is invalidated by the fact that you don't follow it. If you don't take your own advice seriously, why should a patient?



When you give out advice that you don't follow yourself, it loses its value. It's that simple. So if you want to be a doctor, you should follow all the advice you give out. And if you don't, well this is the wrong job for you. Medicine is not just any old job where you read off a script at work and then go do whatever you want in your free time. You're always a doctor. When patients see you out and doing unhealthy stuff, that makes you look like you just aren't serious about health, and if a doctor, who is the expert of health, doesn't find unhealthy behavior to be a problem, why should the average person? It's a really bad image to portray and does damage to both your own effectiveness as a doctor, and public health in general.

same applies to the rest of your statement. You still imply that the advice becomes invalid simply for not following it. Or at least you imply that the patient will somehow necessarily believe this. That part may be true I suppose.... Either way you continue saying things about the validity of the advice. That is the logical absurdity here. The meaning and value of the advice are intrinsic to the content of the advice. If a fat doctor reads off a recommendation written by an expert with a BMI of 18 does it suddenly lose value? That is what you imply here... because the advice we ALL give is an aggregate and summation of current knowledge.

So..... I read your posts just fine Petey Perhaps you didnt

 

[SpecterGT260]

Poor arguments? You just said a doctor doesn't have to practice what he preaches if a microbiologist doesn't have to become a microbe. That makes absolutely no sense. Don't tell me about poor arguments loool

*facepalm* here we go with this song and dance again....

I was pointing out the logical flaw in your argument. You said that physicians are experts in healthy living and then implied that not living healthy demonstrates a lack of expertise. I was trying to point out to you (in a manner that did not constitute holding your hand through it) that expertise and degree of "living it" are not linked in any fashion.

It is interesting that the only things you and I butt heads on are issues of logical fallacy and swiss cheese arguments. I guess not everyone can logic quite as hard as most people do

 

[peteB]

*facepalm* here we go with this song and dance again....

I was pointing out the logical flaw in your argument. You said that physicians are experts in healthy living and then implied that not living healthy demonstrates a lack of expertise. I was trying to point out to you (in a manner that did not constitute holding your hand through it) that expertise and degree of "living it" are not linked in any fashion.

It is interesting that the only things you and I butt heads on are issues of logical fallacy and swiss cheese arguments. I guess not everyone can logic quite as hard as most people do

No the fact is you have poor reading comprehension.

 

[link2swim06]

I actually agree with weight/BMI limits on doctors. It's absolutely absurd for an obese doctor to be telling a patient he/she needs to lose weight. Speeding tickets are not relevant. Doctors don't routinely instruct patients to obey the speed limit. They do, however, instruct patients to quit smoking and lose weight. So yes, I agree with the no tobacco policy and I would agree with a reasonable BMI policy too. I don't expect all doctors to have 6 packs but a doctor with a BMI of 30 is ridiculous.

If you can't take care of yourself, you have no business charging money to tell others how to take care of themselves. No one likes a hypocrite, and if I was hiring staff for my hospital I definitely would not hire one.

Practice what you preach.

Seriously? BMI is a joke. I could have both a six pack and a BMI of 30 at the same time!

At the very least base it on % body fat....

 

[SpecterGT260]

Ø

I think you are wrong. I guess you also think that parents can be as bad role models as they want but as long as they tell their kids what's right and wrong their actual actions in front of them don't matter. Give me a break.

I wanna jump all over this but I think you are so entrenched in this that you are unable to see how ridiculous it is to compare the doctor/patient relationship to that of a parent/child. It is offensive to patients, for starters (an important part of medicine IS still patient autonomy and all that goes along with it ) and it also implies that patients are not responsible for themselves.
Give me that break back plz

 

[bob1234]

I prefer to stick to legalizing things with minimal public health impacts. heart attacks are generally important public health impacts.

Again. . . alcohol, tobacco, and prescription drugs (ALL LEGAL) kill and negatively affect a number of people on the order of 1 to 2 magnitudes greater than what meth ever has. I don't foresee school teachers jumping on the meth band wagon if it were legalized. People do things irrespective to their legality already!

 

[SpecterGT260]

Again. . . alcohol, tobacco, and prescription drugs (ALL LEGAL) kill and negatively affect a number of people on the order of 1 to 2 magnitudes greater than what meth ever has. I don't foresee school teachers jumping on the meth band wagon if it were legalized. People do things irrespective to their legality already!

In regard to prescription drugs: removal of meth has NOT ever resulted in the death of anyone. Can you say the same for legal Rx?

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[JP2740]

Doctors shouldn't be able to go to bars and drink

 

[SpecterGT260]

Doctors shouldn't be able to go to bars and drink

You shut your ***** mouth!

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[link2swim06]

Again. . . alcohol, tobacco, and prescription drugs (ALL LEGAL) kill and negatively affect a number of people on the order of 1 to 2 magnitudes greater than what meth ever has. I don't foresee school teachers jumping on the meth band wagon if it were legalized. People do things irrespective to their legality already!

But meth is a prescription drug (Desoxyn).

It is schedule II not schedule I. It is more legal than MJ according to the FDA/DEA.

 

[SpecterGT260]

But meth is a prescription drug (Desoxyn).

It is schedule II not schedule I. It is more legal than MJ according to the FDA/DEA.

WTF we literally JUST had an exam on stimulants and the notes explicitly stated that there was no clinical use for meth....

 

[link2swim06]

WTF we literally JUST had an exam on stimulants and the notes explicitly stated that there was no clinical use for meth....

Well your teacher should update his notes.

It is actually FDA approved but rarely prescribed bc it is very easy to be abused and most doctors don't like to have their name on a pill bottle that says 'methamphetamine.'

http://www.drugs.com/pro/desoxyn.html

Other surprising drugs with medical purposes are cocaine and ecstasy.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Ya I looked it up before posting that. Just a little irritated that his notes were out of date. When was it approved? Couldnt find a date

 

[link2swim06]

Ya I looked it up before posting that. Just a little irritated that his notes were out of date. When was it approved? Couldnt find a date

Per drugs.com

FDA Approval History
1943 - December 31
DESOXYN TABLET; ORAL (5MG)
Active Ingredient(s): METHAMPHETAMINE HYDROCHLORIDE
Applicant: LUNDBECK INC
Marketing status: Prescription


Only 69 years out of date....

 

[bauber]

.

 

[peteB]

Whatever guys, you can go on spending your days telling people to be healthy and your nights pigging out and doing drugs all you want, I don't care. It's not my fault you have no self-control or respect in yourself or your profession. If you want to be a hypocrite go for it. Just remember at the end of the day that is what you are, no matter how hard you try to deny it and explain yourself. And no one likes or trusts a hypocrite.

I'll be practicing what I preach because I actually believe in everything I say and I want to set a good example. I'm not in this to fill up my bank account. This isn't just a job for me. This is a life. I actually want to help people, and saying something and doing something else is just not the way to do it.

Also I'm sick of arguing on here with a bunch of know-it-all med students.

Thanks for the ride.

/pete is out.

 

[SpecterGT260]

 

[SpecterGT260]

Whatever guys, you can go on spending your days telling people to be healthy and your nights pigging out and doing drugs all you want, I don't care. It's not my fault you have no self-control or respect in yourself or your profession. If you want to be a hypocrite go for it. Just remember at the end of the day that is what you are, no matter how hard you try to deny it and explain yourself. And no one likes or trusts a hypocrite.

I'll be practicing what I preach because I actually believe in everything I say and I want to set a good example.

Yet another logical fallacy

 

[link2swim06]

Whatever guys, you can go on spending your days telling people to be healthy and your nights pigging out and doing drugs all you want, I don't care. It's not my fault you have no self-control or respect in yourself or your profession. If you want to be a hypocrite go for it. Just remember at the end of the day that is what you are, no matter how hard you try to deny it and explain yourself. And no one likes or trusts a hypocrite.

I'll be practicing what I preach because I actually believe in everything I say and I want to set a good example. I'm not in this to fill up my bank account. This isn't just a job for me. This is a life. I actually want to help people, and saying something and doing something else is just not the way to do it.

Also I'm sick of arguing on here with a bunch of know-it-all med students.

Thanks for the ride.

/pete is out.

Dude.

You already made it clear you want to be a radiologist or basically a non-clinician. With all due respect, you will not be 'preaching' anything because you will not even see the patients.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=952857

 

[SpecterGT260]

Dude.

You already made it clear you want to be a radiologist or basically a non-clinician. With all due respect, you will not be 'preaching' anything because you will not even see the patients.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=952857

 

[greatnt249]

Whatever guys, you can go on spending your days telling people to be healthy and your nights pigging out and doing drugs all you want, I don't care. It's not my fault you have no self-control or respect in yourself or your profession. If you want to be a hypocrite go for it. Just remember at the end of the day that is what you are, no matter how hard you try to deny it and explain yourself. And no one likes or trusts a hypocrite.

I'll be practicing what I preach because I actually believe in everything I say and I want to set a good example. I'm not in this to fill up my bank account. This isn't just a job for me. This is a life. I actually want to help people, and saying something and doing something else is just not the way to do it.

Also I'm sick of arguing on here with a bunch of know-it-all med students.

Thanks for the ride.

/pete is out.

1. You keep using the word "hypocrite"; I suggest you look up the definition of the word before you throw it around so casually. A hypocrite is not simply "someone who says one thing and does the opposite"; it usually carries the connotation of someone being sanctimonious in advocating whatever virtue they pretend to uphold. One can advocate a particular set of virtues, truly believing in their merits, yet simply not have the courage or fortitude to take the steps necessary to follow what they advocate; this does not make him or her a hypocrite.

An obese doctor advocating weight loss does not make the doctor a hypocrite. The smoking doctor advocating cessation in a patient is not necessarily a hypocrite. The alcoholic doctor advocating temperance is not necessarily a hypocrite. You need more information about these doctors' personal motives and beliefs before you can make such a distinction. That being said, those of us who don't live up to or believe your self-imposed standards of what a doctor "should be" does not make us hypocrites, since it was not us who initially claimed to uphold the standards and virtues you imposed on us. Make sense?

2. I am not defined by my profession. If my patients refuse to follow my advice because I don't uphold some ridiculous standard that they've imposed on me, then so be it; I don't consider that a failure on my part. Gone are the days of paternalistic medicine; patients are free to do what they wish regardless of whatever ridiculous rationalizations and justifications for their poor health they throw my way. I will be treating adults in my career; I expect that we've all matured beyond the "monkey see, monkey do" method of advocating healthy virtues to our patients. A patient who refuses to lose weight because his/her doctor is obese, refuses to quit smoking because his/her doctor smokes, or refuses to quit drinking because his/her doctor enjoys a beer now and then is merely deflecting responsibility away from themselves. All I can do is provide an informed, expert opinion on the matter; what they choose to do with that information is ultimately their choice, regardless of how I live my life.

3. If you do not wish to engage in arguments with "know-it-all" medical students, then it might do you some good to not carry yourself as if your opinions are the undeniable truth. We get it; you have strong opinions, which is fine. The impression you give, however, is that you cannot comprehend how anyone would disagree with you. This attitude is made more apparent when you misrepresent the rebuttals of others who choose to reply.

 

[bob1234]

In regard to prescription drugs: removal of meth has NOT ever resulted in the death of anyone. Can you say the same for legal Rx?

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What?