Self studying science AP's. Questions...

[xnfs93hy]

Hey.

I cannot take any science AP's basically b.c I am not in honors chemistry and you need like a 96 average to get into any of them. Some require a 92. Nevertheless, I have a B+, not the necessary A- average, so therefore I cannot take any.

I want to take:

AP Bio.
AP Chem.
AP Env.

I am under the impression that you CAN study all these things on your own, sign up for the exam (wherever they offer it), and then take it.

Obviously you would hope you would get a 5. However, do colleges accept anything lower than a 5? I hear that most accept 4's, and SOME accept 3's, but nothing less than that.

If I got all 5's, and my college accepted it, do I have to take that course again in college.

For example, I'm taking AP Psych (officially). Other than the fact that I'm taking it at school (my GPA goes up, rank, looks good, etc.), what will I be able to place out of in college if I got a 4 or 5 on Psych?

Also, let's say that I self studied the AP's and got all 5's. Will my colleges see that? Will they see that I studied them myself. Will that look good?

For example, since I cannot take it in school, will self studying them and doing stellar on the exam look even more impressive than someone who took it at school and got a 5?

Also, how would I go about studying these classes on my own in terms of materials?

Should I buy a textbook? Which one.

I'm pretty sure if I actually want to learn these science AP's, I should get like a Barrons AP study guide, and a textbook.

Thoughts on this...?

I appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

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[xnfs93hy]

Also, I am doing dual enrollment (only available to seniors). I believe I am allowed to take 2 college classes a semester. Would you recommend that INSTEAD of self studying the AP's, I take a college level Bio and Chem class? Granted they let me obviously...

 

[ksmi117]

I'd go with the college classes. Studying on your own is possible, but with other classes it'd be harder. And if you don't get a high enough score it was all for naught. Also, you wouldn't have to take them again, but medical schools usually try to discourage people from using the science AP credits. They'd rather the classes be taken at a college. As far as the scores, each school is different. At my school, you'd get different amount of credit for different scores 3-5. But I think actually taking the classes would be the best option.

 

[DLi]

I self studied APUSH and AP Psych and I got 5s on both of those. Also, Environmental Science is much easier than Chem or Bio.

I know that in most mid-level public universities, 3s and 4s would get you through one semester of the respective subject, and a 5 will get you through a year. For example, a 3-4 on Chem would get me through CHM2045 in UF while a 5 would get me through both CHM2045 and 2046.

Definitely dual enroll if you can, because it's a very good option. I'm actually dual enrolling full time at the local community college (at the cost of prom and graduation), but I love it!

 

[nlax30]

I'd go with the college classes. Studying on your own is possible, but with other classes it'd be harder. And if you don't get a high enough score it was all for naught. Also, you wouldn't have to take them again, but medical schools usually try to discourage people from using the science AP credits. They'd rather the classes be taken at a college. As far as the scores, each school is different. At my school, you'd get different amount of credit for different scores 3-5. But I think actually taking the classes would be the best option.

+1 I think she nailed it.

Nothing wrong with APs, but it varies among universities what sort of credit they give you for the AP course, also may vary depending on if you get a 3, 4, or 5. I did AP Physics and I think AP Economics and I technically received credit for them at my university, but it was more like "generic" credit that didn't really apply towards a specific degree. In other words, if you're pretty sure you want to go to med school you are going to need to take all the science pre-reqs at college and for the most part getting AP credit for a bio or chem course will not be equivalent to getting credit for the actual class that applies towards the major.

If you can do well in them by all means take them and you'll get some college credit (which can sometimes help in moving you up the food chain when it comes time to register for courses in college), but I wouldn't go in expecting these to count for any med pre-reqs.

 

[DLi]

Really? I know in UF, the AP credits would count towards certain classes. I know the 5 I got on AP Lang pretty much got out of my English Comp requirements. Does it count for med school?

 

[Maygyver]

Honestly, most people I know that took the AP bio/chem exams ended up just doing the college courses anyway to get a better foundation. Focus on your other classes and bringing your GPA up to be honest.

 

[DLi]

Whew! I'm glad I haven't taken a science AP yet. I pretty much got out of all the social studies, humanities, and English that I need. What about those?

 

[nlax30]

Really? I know in UF, the AP credits would count towards certain classes. I know the 5 I got on AP Lang pretty much got out of my English Comp requirements. Does it count for med school?

Something like a 5 in english where the school gives you actual english credit is probably fine for med school.

The problem I've seen is that even if take something like AP Bio, and receive some sort of college credit for Biology, if you end up doing a science major that AP credit in Bio may not count towards the major. A lot of times there will be different "versions" of those basic science courses offered.... like Biology for non-majors, and then a Biology for majors (which was the required one for pretty much anyone getting some sort of science degree).

If you're planning on majoring in History then that generic AP Bio credit is probably fine for the History major, but you'd just have to make sure that med schools would accept it as such.

Just going to depend on your school. If you got a 5 in AP Bio and your undergrad college gives you the same credit for that AP Bio that they'd give you if you took the regular science Biology I then you may be fine.

Not sure about UF. I was actually at FSU and our Bio/Chem departments wouldn't apply AP credit towards those majors.

 

[ksmi117]

Whew! I'm glad I haven't taken a science AP yet. I pretty much got out of all the social studies, humanities, and English that I need. What about those?

Yeah, med schools usually accept those. It's the sciences that they want to see to make sure you can handle the college courses.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

Just a heads up. AP Environmental is the easy one, and most people self study it. I would be cautious about the others. In my opinion when you talk about science AP's i think Environmental is the easiest to self study as it is also one of the easiest AP's (in terms of every AP taken and among which has a high passing rate)...

AP Bio is self studyable i believe also. As long as you have the right material.

AP chem...not really, i truly do believe you need instruction for this unless your naturally good at chem, or your just that good at studying and grasping concepts.

I would say though chem is probably the one you want to take a class for, and Bio and Environ should be ok to self study.

 

[bkz]

If you go with the college classes remember they become part of the application you submit to AMCAS when you apply to med school.

Also wiith the science classes most med schools want you to take the labs too. So you may have to take intro classes again for lab credit.

Just some things to think about. Good luck!

 

[orrghead16]

I think self-studying for the "core" science classes would have been very tough.


I self studied for Psych, Enviro, Human Geo, Eng. Lang, and Euro. They were all ones where you could read/memorize a text book, and then review. Popped a 5 on all of them except English Language. I don't think there is any way I could have done fine on the Physics C's, Bio, and Chem without taking the classes with them. I came into college with all my pre-meds done except for organic. Some Med schools DO except all AP credits, but most require upper-level courses over them to satisfy the requirements.

So as a freshman, I rolled into Quantitative Chem. and a 300 Physics class. Then PChem as a soph. IT SUCKED, and I wouldn't do it over again. If anything else, I wish I would have just retaken General Chem and General Physics, it would have been quite an easy way to breeze into college. Bio wasn't a problem because I was a Bio major. Yeah, there are some downfalls to the AP, exams.

On the other hand, the biggest help for AP's are getting gen eds & humanities out of the way. Plus, being able to register earlier because of a bunch of credits helped a TON in getting awesome Profs, class times, and classes early in College. I saw it not so much as letting me "skip" certain subjects and pre-reqs instead of letting me take the classes I wanted. I.e. instead of intro to U.S. History, I walked into a military mistory class on the first day of my freshman year to a Professor standing on a table screaming out reenactments of WWI, something I will never forget.

Not to mention, after taking 16ish APs, it makes Standardized testing a breeze. The MCAT is just as much about being a proficient standardized test taker as it is knowing all the info.

 

[DLi]

You can easily just sign up for an unneeded humanities course if you needed to. Getting all your gen ed classes out of the way means you can take some better classes that you enjoy for your major.

 

[orrghead16]

Disagree with the first part and agree with the last part...taking all your humanities/gen eds as AP makes it difficult to ease up your schedule with a humanities course while studying for the MCAT/taking a break (if you find humanities easy). Then again like you I REALLY enjoyed starting freshmen year with upper level philosophy courses and being surrounded by people who knew way more than I did In the end there are pros and cons to each option. For the record I'm still glad I didn't have to take freshmen English

If you take the AP that counts towards graduation, when you are studying for the MCAT then you shouldn't have to take the slouch class at all, so you can just take a REAL light semester when studying for the MCAT. That is exactly how it worked out for me. 12 hours this semester and I don't know what the heck to do with myself besides study for the MCAT...

 

[Salvorix]

Hey.

I cannot take any science AP's basically b.c I am not in honors chemistry and you need like a 96 average to get into any of them. Some require a 92. Nevertheless, I have a B+, not the necessary A- average, so therefore I cannot take any.

I want to take:

AP Bio.
AP Chem.
AP Env.

I am under the impression that you CAN study all these things on your own, sign up for the exam (wherever they offer it), and then take it.

Obviously you would hope you would get a 5. However, do colleges accept anything lower than a 5? I hear that most accept 4's, and SOME accept 3's, but nothing less than that.

If I got all 5's, and my college accepted it, do I have to take that course again in college.

For example, I'm taking AP Psych (officially). Other than the fact that I'm taking it at school (my GPA goes up, rank, looks good, etc.), what will I be able to place out of in college if I got a 4 or 5 on Psych?

Also, let's say that I self studied the AP's and got all 5's. Will my colleges see that? Will they see that I studied them myself. Will that look good?

For example, since I cannot take it in school, will self studying them and doing stellar on the exam look even more impressive than someone who took it at school and got a 5?

Also, how would I go about studying these classes on my own in terms of materials?

Should I buy a textbook? Which one.

I'm pretty sure if I actually want to learn these science AP's, I should get like a Barrons AP study guide, and a textbook.

Thoughts on this...?

I appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

As someone who just went through the college application process I can tell you that with the Common Application and the vast majority of other applications colleges do not see your AP scores. That's right, they only see what grade you got in the class. Once you are accepted and enrolled, you send your AP scores to your college and the college decides what to do with those scores.

There is however usually a place on an application (again I mostly have experience with the Common Application which a bunch of colleges use) where you have option to self-report any sort of substantial academic achievements not listed anywhere else on your application where you could possibly self-report your AP scores. Not many people I know actually did this. That being said, if you do decide to go through with this Jeff I would strongly recommend you talk with a guidance counselor at your school and figure out some way to self-report AP scores you get (assuming you took them before senior year and they are good scores) because unlike most people, you self-studied for the AP exams and thus colleges have no way of knowing that you put the time/effort in to achieving such a task.

 

[itisaniceday]

You can easily just sign up for an unneeded humanities course if you needed to. Getting all your gen ed classes out of the way. And you can take some better classes that you enjoy for your major.

 

[itisaniceday]

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[SouthernSurgeon]

What is your goal in trying to self-study for the AP tests?

-There won't be any advantage in your initial college app process (since you won't have the AP course listed on your transcript and the test will be a long ways off)

-There won't be much/any benefit in college if you are planning on going pre-med. You will likely need to take the core college science courses in college - med schools don't look very kindly on AP credits (and for good reason)

-In all likelihood I think this is another case of you trying to overextend yourself. You need to simply try and do well within the context of a structured high school curriculum. If you try and take a full high school courseload and independently study more advanced material for the AP tests, you are setting yourself up for a rough year (and the end result will probably be further academic struggles).

 

[nlax30]

What is your goal in trying to self-study for the AP tests?

-There won't be any advantage in your initial college app process (since you won't have the AP course listed on your transcript and the test will be a long ways off)

-There won't be much/any benefit in college if you are planning on going pre-med. You will likely need to take the core college science courses in college - med schools don't look very kindly on AP credits (and for good reason)

-In all likelihood I think this is another case of you trying to overextend yourself. You need to simply try and do well within the context of a structured high school curriculum. If you try and take a full high school courseload and independently study more advanced material for the AP tests, you are setting yourself up for a rough year (and the end result will probably be further academic struggles).

Totally agree with the above.

Only reason I took AP Physics and AP Economics was physics was interesting and fairly easy for me at the time, so I really didn't have to put much more effort into doing well in it. I got some generic credit for it but ended up having to take Physics 1 & 2 all over again in undergrad. Economics just fit into my schedule and the actual AP exam at the end of the year was optional so there was no pressure.

I purposefully didn't do things like AP Chem or any others because I knew I was going to have to take those over again anyway and I was in playing varsity sports and didn't want my senior year to be totally insane.

 

[xnfs93hy]

What is your goal in trying to self-study for the AP tests?

-There won't be any advantage in your initial college app process (since you won't have the AP course listed on your transcript and the test will be a long ways off)

-There won't be much/any benefit in college if you are planning on going pre-med. You will likely need to take the core college science courses in college - med schools don't look very kindly on AP credits (and for good reason)

-In all likelihood I think this is another case of you trying to overextend yourself. You need to simply try and do well within the context of a structured high school curriculum. If you try and take a full high school courseload and independently study more advanced material for the AP tests, you are setting yourself up for a rough year (and the end result will probably be further academic struggles).

Why though? If you take AP Bio, and place out of a sem. or year of intro Bio and take the next level Bio as a freshman and do well, why would med schools not accept your AP credit? Isn't it the same thing as taking it in college?

 

[xnfs93hy]

Totally agree with the above.

Only reason I took AP Physics and AP Economics was physics was interesting and fairly easy for me at the time, so I really didn't have to put much more effort into doing well in it. I got some generic credit for it but ended up having to take Physics 1 & 2 all over again in undergrad. Economics just fit into my schedule and the actual AP exam at the end of the year was optional so there was no pressure.

I purposefully didn't do things like AP Chem or any others because I knew I was going to have to take those over again anyway and I was in playing varsity sports and didn't want my senior year to be totally insane.

You really HAVE TO take them over again?

 

[nlax30]

You really HAVE TO take them over again?

Well, my undergrad university would have given me some sort of credit for those AP, but it wouldn't have applied toward a bio/chem major, or as bio credit toward a science degree, so yea it would have been of little use to me.

 

[Algophiliac]

Why though? If you take AP Bio, and place out of a sem. or year of intro Bio and take the next level Bio as a freshman and do well, why would med schools not accept your AP credit? Isn't it the same thing as taking it in college?

The chances of doing well after only an AP level biology course are slim, at best. If you are a bio major, especially, the college will probably not take your biology credit toward your major, since AP is a poor stand-in for actual college level courses.

Take the course in college, do well, and be happy with your 4.0 There are times to challenge yourself, and there are times to stop being an idiot and take those little breaks you've been given. And anyway, bio is sooo cool...why rush through it? Take your time and figure it out.

 

[Maygyver]

Why though? If you take AP Bio, and place out of a sem. or year of intro Bio and take the next level Bio as a freshman and do well, why would med schools not accept your AP credit? Isn't it the same thing as taking it in college?

To be completely honest, it isn't really the same. I'm not completely sure what % of answers you need to get what number, but medical schools like to have a concrete grade so they can see how you did in prereqs. Your prereqs are your courses that best represent your ability to do "biological/medical" related courses. Taking AP is still nice though because you learn the material and have a solid foundation. If you test out of bio, you are probably just going to have to take another upper level biology course so you won't really save any time.

 

[xnfs93hy]

To be completely honest, it isn't really the same. I'm not completely sure what % of answers you need to get what number, but medical schools like to have a concrete grade so they can see how you did in prereqs. Your prereqs are your courses that best represent your ability to do "biological/medical" related courses. Taking AP is still nice though because you learn the material and have a solid foundation. If you test out of bio, you are probably just going to have to take another upper level biology course so you won't really save any time.

I see what you mean. I guess in that case I should just take it in college then.

 

[Maygyver]

I see what you mean. I guess in that case I should just take it in college then.

In your situation that is probably best. If you could take it in HS I would do that, but I'm not sure how much you would get out of self studying. Try to get into Honors atleast.

 

[xnfs93hy]

In your situation that is probably best. If you could take it in HS I would do that, but I'm not sure how much you would get out of self studying. Try to get into Honors atleast.

Wait. Honors what? Physics? Can't. I got a B second quarter when I needed an A. I didn't take the test for it. . That is why I'm pissed.

I mean, I know it is a big deal going from a regular class to AP but, seriously, I have a friend in Honors Physics and he says it sucks. It's weird in some honors classes, it is actually hard and you learn more difficult stuff. In honors physics it is like regular physics, just that much more gay. Example: They cover more chapters, get more HW, etc. There is really no difference.

He says either take it Dual Enrollment or self study it. Or just take regular physics and get the basics nailed down so that some of the stuff in college won't seem as foreign.

Honestly, I'd love to take an Honors/AP science course. I just didn't have the straight A's I needed to have this year, unfortunately.

Hence the name of the thread.
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Also, I just got that app for dual enrollment. I am going to sign up for it.

I'm just in kind of a debacle now because I NEED to do well in these four classes next year because they will show up on my AMCAS.

I'm trying to decide if I should take a Calc I class or not. I know I can handle it and I'd rather take it, get it out of the way in a small classroom setting. That is the only good thing about CC, it is cheap and there are small classes.

Either that or maybe I will take an English course or something.

You need English for MS right? Will MS's care if I took it through dual enrollment?

I want to get 4.0's in all four of these classes since it is going towards my college GPA and going on my AMCAS.

 

[Maygyver]

For MS? what do you mean by that?

As far as honors, I was talking about like honors biology or something like that. Not too be rude, but I kind of agree that if you can't get A's in the regular courses, schools really have no reason to believe you can excel at the AP level. In short, just do whatever classes you feel comfortable with.

Good luck with the CC classes though.

 

[bkz]

Alternatively you could take neither the APs nor the college classes, but pick up an AP book like Barron's or Kaplan and take their sample tests. This way the information still wouldn't be new when you see it in college, but you don't have the pressure of needing the high scores now.

I took mostly honors science courses before my senior year of APs and I kinda wish I had just taken regular chemistry, regular biology. Most undergraduate schools are going to filter you first by GPA and THEN look at the difficulty of your classes. I got a B+ in honors chemistry, which in my high school counted as 4.0 (C-->B, B-->A, etc). However some of the colleges I applied to had a different system for calculating GPA--they took the "raw" grade which meant that B+ counted as 3.0. Ouch.

I think you should really focus on the next step, undergrad, and make your decision based on the schools you want to go to. Figure out how they evaluate applications (I really wish I had known about the GPA system my freshman year!!), and make a realistic decision. If you're sure you can get a 4.0 in 4 advanced classes go for it. The more conservative option would be taking a couple classes with more time to focus on them.

Physics is really interesting and if you are secretly a big dork you might enjoy reading the AP overview books even if you aren't going to be tested on it

Good luck!

 

[Maygyver]

Honestly, it might not be a bad idea to pick up a Campbells bio book. Maybe you could borrow one from your AP Bio teacher in the school. Get a head start, and I find it interesting.

 

[gotmilklol]

Jef, honestly speaking
I took a bio honors course (came from regular class in 8th grade)
I felt a significant difference in the course and i felt so stupid because everyone else was like getting a B or A. I knew I couldn't handle the courseload, but I continued with a B-/C+ range. Overall, if you take AP classes or self study and you don't feel confortable with it, try a different path