Say no to SUNY Downstate IM, too big to fail, go smaller

[disorder]

I'm an intern now and when I was a student I thought that doing things like transporting patients, collecting urine and drawing blood were actually useful clinical skills but now I know differently.

When people refer to clinical skills they aren't usually referring to those menial tasks that don't actually provide you with useful knowledge. They're usually referring to things like interpreting lab work, reading CXRs/ other imaging modalities and gaining knowledge from other things (ie. physical exam) etc. Because that's is what being a doctor is actually about, that what you go to residency to do. The amount of time I wasted on doing those random tasks (that someone else is actually paid to do) takes away from the time that could be used in actually developing the medical knowledge and skill necessary to be a good doctor.

Truth

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[DermViser]

To start with i read in this extremely long thread on how suny downstate is not a program worth anybody's while. Now the entire facade with the PDs is something I am completely unaware of and frankly not very concerned about. What did catch my eye was that one of the reasons suny Ds is a program is because it Carters to a difficult patient population. You sir, are actually very wrong! A difficult population if clinically difficult makes you an astounding physician, patient population which is rude well I would advice not too rely on courtesies from terminally ill patients to feed your ego, if ethnicity and language is a problem than welcome to New York buddy!!! So a difficult patient population should be a challenge, a challenge which will make me a better physician!! As far as fellowships go it's a university hospital I'm pretty sure something can be worked, I mean if flushing can make fellows than obviously obtaining a fellowship is resident dependent not vice versa. As far as ancillary goes I think scut work since when did we become riding such a high horse we are interns for crying out loud!!! What is so bad about drawing blood or wheeling a guy to radiology!! Why is that a problem?? You know the US health care is so amazing because the doctors of yesteryear were laborious and intellectual, medicine is tough it's tougher than most things in the world; if the work load and getting yelled at is a problem please find a different career. Again before everybody starts calling me an old timer etc etc.... I am 25 and applying for the match next year and I advocate the tough residency it separates the men from the boys( sorry girls just an expression not trying to be sexist ). Also this is New York get used to fast pace, rude people and the hard life. If you make it here you can make it anywhere but do you have the cahoonies to do that!!!!!!! My 2 cents... Be strong people!

EmapthiZing, compassion are all part of being a doctor!! You'll be surprised how effective treatment can be if you know your patients on a personal level! The doctors of the past were ancillary and they're knowledge is no inferior to ours! And I see residents spend more time writing brainless billing records than actually clinically active

That's not the point I don't see why drawing blood is a big deal, I am at the moment doing an observership in a big university hospital and all i see residents do is type excessively and write long notes for medical billing purposes, which I believe is scut and I worse than drawing blood and wheeling patients. Atleast that teaches you some clinical skill!!!!!

Was going to respond to several fallacies and errors in thought, but I'll just sum it up with

 

[yasir jawaid]

What??

 

[Direct Laryngoscopy]

I'm finishing residency in another specialty, and I can tell you residents in all specialties are saying it is the absolute perfect time to be leaving. There is ALOT of uncertainty with both LICH and Downstate, and what are the long term plans of both institutions. I would advise those considering residency in any specialty at that place, think long and hard, because the institution, at this present time, is NOT on solid footing.

 

[DrDudeMD]

I'm finishing residency in another specialty, and I can tell you residents in all specialties are saying it is the absolute perfect time to be leaving. There is ALOT of uncertainty with both LICH and Downstate, and what are the long term plans of both institutions. I would advise those considering residency in any specialty at that place, think long and hard, because the institution, at this present time, is NOT on solid footing.

Assuming worse case scenario, can they just move their residency programs across the street to the county hospital?

 

[thierryhenry]

i'm an intern now and when i was a student i thought that doing things like transporting patients, collecting urine and drawing blood were actually useful clinical skills but now i know differently.

When people refer to clinical skills they aren't usually referring to those menial tasks that don't actually provide you with useful knowledge. They're usually referring to things like interpreting lab work, reading cxrs/ other imaging modalities and gaining knowledge from other things (ie. Physical exam) etc. Because that's is what being a doctor is actually about, that what you go to residency to do. The amount of time i wasted on doing those random tasks (that someone else is actually paid to do) takes away from the time that could be used in actually developing the medical knowledge and skill necessary to be a good doctor.

+1

 

[The kitchen sink]

Hey, for current applicants, can you give us an update on SUNY Downstates' state of affairs?

 

[Simpleguy2013]

Hey, for current applicants, can you give us an update on SUNY Downstates' state of affairs?

I heard its on probation, but not sure.

 

[thierryhenry]

lol

 

[IMPD]

I heard its on probation, but not sure.

"Probation Under Appeal." for the Institution and Probation for Family Medicine. Hopefully things will improve.

 

[My1021]

.

 

[par28034]

Hi Guys. I'm going to have my interview in late Jan as well and I would like to ask for any updates especially about the stability of the program.
Right now I'm considering to go for the interview or not because of all the reviews and the news about financial stability of the program.

Thank you very much in advance for your input.

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

im tired of seeing this thread. if you dont want to go to suny downstate then dont go.

 

[My1021]

I'm an intern now and when I was a student I thought that doing things like transporting patients, collecting urine and drawing blood were actually useful clinical skills but now I know differently.

When people refer to clinical skills they aren't usually referring to those menial tasks that don't actually provide you with useful knowledge. They're usually referring to things like interpreting lab work, reading CXRs/ other imaging modalities and gaining knowledge from other things (ie. physical exam) etc. Because that's is what being a doctor is actually about, that what you go to residency to do. The amount of time I wasted on doing those random tasks (that someone else is actually paid to do) takes away from the time that could be used in actually developing the medical knowledge and skill necessary to be a good doctor.

It has been very difficult to separate truth from fact from myth in this entire thread.

This is what I was told by one of the chief residents: SUNY downstate "bought" LICH which had its own residency program a while back and tried to turn it into a for profit hospital that could generate some cash for the system. LICH, however, instead of making money for the system was hemorrhaging money due to poor management. After some administrative changes they finally got LICH back to a point where its neither making a ton or losing a ton of money. It is still open but no residents rotate there anymore. The former residents from LICH were absorbed by the SUNY downstate program. King's county hospital is still receiving money from the city and the university hospital is still receiving money from the state.

 

[thierryhenry]

whats written above is all true. but the LICH residents that were absorbed and significantly less skilled and lower level quality of residents compared to the University program itself; this downgrades the program even more.

The fact that the whole INSTITUTE of Downstate is on ACGME probation shows that it is something you'd definitely have to think twice about before diving right in.

Downstate is as close to my heart as any other place and I learned the base of great medicine as a med student there; but to be a resident there? So many negatives and only a few positive (the cases that you see); which you could get at many more "stable" inner city hospitals..

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

Match list for 2012-2013 class. apparently downstate had a "good" match this year, but they didn't provide it to us during the interviews

pulm
uchicago
usc
henry ford

cards
downstate x 5
nslij x 1
westchester x 1

heme onc
usc x 2
NSLIJ

Gastro
Downstate x 2

Rheum
downstate x 1

ID
georgetown x 1

just for those considering interviewing at Downstate.

they casually name dropped that someone matched into brigham for CritCare and that they had 10 match into cardio. lol.

 

[John Prist]

Please, any updates about the Downstate, I am confused about my ranking list, Downstate or Albany Med ?

 

[anbuitachi]

Downstate isn't going anywhere, and my guess is it will be taken off probation soon. it's just that the whole thing about appealing probation takes a long time. downstate was only put on probation b/c of LICH's failure... I rotated at DS as a medical student and I really liked it. My intern and resident were there 7-4 M-F, and half a day on weekend, with q5/q6 calls for county/ds. I feel like theres a lot to be learned at DS. There are a LOT of crazy cases.. and the attendings are generally pretty good at teaching in my opinion.

 

[meliora27]

What is the current consensus on this program? Has any changed or does most of this in this thread still hold true? Thanks!

 

[Scalpel_Junky36]

Any updates on the program?

 

[Scalpel_Junky36]

I've heard great things about the clinical exposure one gains here, but would love some new insight on the dynamics in the program ie interaction between residents, attendings etc

 

[tikmle]

I think the program was different in 2006. Things have changed in this world, so has the program
SUNY Downstate Internal Medicine (Program update from an insider!)