Saturation of PAs

[this_afreekan]

I know that right now the job outlook for PAs is excellent, but do you still think it'll be amazing in about 5 or 6 years? Also do you think California will be saturated with PAs in 5-6 years?

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[BreathDeep]

Depends what we're talking about exactly.

I can't speak for Southern California, but between SF and Sacramento there are 4 PA schools at Stanford, Touro, Samuel Merritt, and UC Davis. Not to mention UCD, UCSF, Samuel Merritt, and I think USF (might be wrong here though) also produce NP's too.

So there's a lot of school churning them out. Which means that it will probably come down more to the specific area of practice.

Primary Care vs. Acute Care vs. Specialty Clinic?

Big metro area vs. average city vs. rural area?

I would comfortably say that PA's will always be needed. However, identifying where they will be needed is the real question. I'm not a PA myself so you can take this with a grain of salt if you wish, but I have a hunch that in the future (at least in this area with all our current schools) you'll probably find a whole lot more openings in primary and community clinics than you will anywhere else.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

PA's are always good because of their relationship to physicians, it is well defined and the same in every state. The only reason I would ever recommend NP over PA is international practice rights as many countries dont have PAs.

Now I have noticed more PA schools opening up so I understand your concern. But we are not yet near the saturation point for PA. You should be fine if you start in the next couple years.

 

[NonTradFulbrite]

PA's are always good because of their relationship to physicians, it is well defined and the same in every state. The only reason I would ever recommend NP over PA is international practice rights as many countries dont have PAs.

Now I have noticed more PA schools opening up so I understand your concern. But we are not yet near the saturation point for PA. You should be fine if you start in the next couple years.

Thanks for the post HandsomeRob! After years of trying to craft the perfect MD application, I recently realized all I accomplished was wasting time. I need to pursue a real career in health care now. Your comment eases some of my concerns about PA saturation going into an application cycle.

I'm curious, what do you all think are the fields with the best career outlook for future PAs? Is it still specialty surgical fields?

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Thanks for the post HandsomeRob! After years of trying to craft the perfect MD application, I recently realized all I accomplished was wasting time. I need to pursue a real career in health care now. Your comment eases some of my concerns about PA saturation going into an application cycle.

I'm curious, what do you all think are the fields with the best career outlook for future PAs? Is it still specialty surgical fields?

TLR - complicated question. Surgery has most upside eventually, but most PAs can make low to mid 100s in about any field if they are willing to move. Full answer below.

I have a friend finishing PA school right now in TN. A previous graduate was given 120 right out of school to do IM. A medical recruiter told her they would hire her for that amount also for IM.

I think the biggest thing that will limit your income is location. But after that, I would say that surgical PA especially ortho is probably the one of the better paying right now IMO. Of course YMMV, but if you are good at what you do, I have even heard of a guy supposedly doing 300k. Very much an outlier tho. But I know plenty in the mid 100's tho. That is not uncommon with exp even where I am at now in Orlando (which has low starting wages).

The big thing my hospital is pushing for is PA Residencys. They basically pay about 65k annually for the residency and give you a more formal training for 18 months after PA school. While I don't think that's a bad thing, if it were me, unless I had to have a certain location, I would go out in the boonies for a couple years, get the real pay and then come back for nonresident pay.

So I guess overall, surgical PAs probably have the most upside, but may be a bit lower going in. But either way I think the PA outlook is much better in a lot of ways then MD. Primary care will still pay 100k+ in most places for a Primary care PA and the floor is like 90 at worse. So while a physician will complain that for the huge amount of time you put in to become a FP doc its not worth it, not the same with PA.

I don't know about things like derm or pain as far as midlevel go tho. I am betting that in the more doctor procedural stuff there is, the less room for advancement than a big surgery like ortho where there is a bigger pie to slice in the first place. But I don't think it's unrealistic to expect 100k+ offers when you come out of school if your willing to move for a couple years.

This is 'the good old days' as far as PA is concerned. I would remember when picking a specialty that you will never make more than the corresponding attending could have. So IM is not gonna pay 300k at this point (inflation may get it there eventually, but I doubt the field will see real wage growth).

IMO you should pick the field you like best and roll with it. The one word of caution I hear about, is that some places are trying to limit a PAs ability to switch specialties. Don't know how long this will take to happen or when, but it seems like the kind of thing that you just *know* the bigwigs will like and push for eventually. So pick something you like, even if you get stuck in a residecy for a year or 2. It's still so much shorter than any corresponding MD track would have been.

 

[antesj1]

I read in an article that PAs will have an excellent job outlook in the next 5 years. Let me find the article; it was published some time in the summer of this year. California has much too offer based on the type of setting, rural central valley or urban cities like SF and Sac, for example. I work in the central valley as a rehab specialist in a trauma II hospital. I have spoken to many PAs and they have verbalized the need of PAs in the acute setting.