In California PAs and RNs make the same - $102,000?

[Caliguy88]

If you google the salaries, the ranges are kind of all over, anywhere from nurses (high in California) making $30/hr to roughly $50/hr. For PA the salaries are less variable and usually around more around the range of $40-60/hr. Is this a skewed representation because the the money made working double shifts ect?

Its hard to tell where these numbers are coming from. Is the average worker in either field equipped with a certain number years of experience? I assume the average nurse works over 40hrs/week to be making that salary. Does the average nurse have more experience in general then the average PA?


Edit: if you google ca nurse, ca pa salary it they both come up 102k. the pa data (2014), the nurse data (2019)...but still it seems to be only roughly 20k different pay wise with true comparable data.

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[Noisewater-TDX]

California is a weird place for healthcare salaries. I saw a crisis travel job posting for a L&D nurse yesterday with a pay rate of $180k a year.

But that isnt the norm. Nurses in Cali do make a pretty penny compared to the rest of us. But i would think the PA and NP salaries are in the 130-150 range.

 

[Caliguy88]

It was probably also in Northern California, I have heard they are short of healthcare workers there and generally get paid very well.

What kind of work schedule do you think 100k for a nurse in California would entail? Also, does the starting salary differ a whole lot from the average? I always thought it was 30/hr starting and then with some of the shift work and incentives you could probably make 45 pretty easily averaging idk 90k per year right off the bat?

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

That L&D jobs was in northern cali. I don't know what nurses start of at, i have heard numbers in the past between 35-55/hr. I think the higher rate was in the Bay area. Also, i think they are union workers in CA?? pretty sure... they get OT pay after working 8 hours. So in a 12 hour shift you get 4 hours of OT. And they have mandated ratios...

They might make 80-100 right off the bat. But cost of living is so high it probably is proportional to me making $35 and hour in central NC in 2013.

 

[Caliguy88]

Oh ok. Yes I agree with you, I live in Ca and there is a price to pay for sure. I fortunately/unfortunately am a slave to the nice weather and will be staying here most likely.

In California every job after 8 hours is OT and after 12 DT, but trying to do more then 12 seems hard I doubt many employers want to pay double. A lot of smaller companies are very stingy with OT as well, but the larger companies/corps don't seem to care.

But even in California I have heard of 30-35 being a common rate at least for beginning so I am still confused as to where the 102,000 median comes from.

 

[prozone]

Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread - been browsing to see if I find out how much PAs generally make in NorCal since I'm contemplating a career change if it's financially worth the 2+ years invested...

As this thread shows, the information you get from aggregator sites that pop up from Google don't seem all that accurate wrt pay.

It was probably also in Northern California, I have heard they are short of healthcare workers there and generally get paid very well.

What kind of work schedule do you think 100k for a nurse in California would entail? Also, does the starting salary differ a whole lot from the average? I always thought it was 30/hr starting and then with some of the shift work and incentives you could probably make 45 pretty easily averaging idk 90k per year right off the bat?

I'm wondering if that median number is heavily factoring in public sector positions that don't pay nearly as much. I'm currently a NorCal CLS in the private sector and our starting pay is ~$50/hr - starting RNs make about $10 more per hr (NPs probably get another $10/hr on top of that)

I can't speak to how 12 hr shifts work for nurses but to my understanding, if you and your employer agreed to regular 12 hr shifts, you're probably waiving the right to OT in those cases. I doubt any employer is going to agree to regular 1.5x pay. But yeah, if you pick up extra hours/shifts, hours 9-12 will be paid 1.5x and everything after 12 hrs is at 2x pay.

 

[pamac]

Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread - been browsing to see if I find out how much PAs generally make in NorCal since I'm contemplating a career change if it's financially worth the 2+ years invested...

As this thread shows, the information you get from aggregator sites that pop up from Google don't seem all that accurate wrt pay.


I'm wondering if that median number is heavily factoring in public sector positions that don't pay nearly as much. I'm currently a NorCal CLS in the private sector and our starting pay is ~$50/hr - starting RNs make about $10 more per hr (NPs probably get another $10/hr on top of that)

I can't speak to how 12 hr shifts work for nurses but to my understanding, if you and your employer agreed to regular 12 hr shifts, you're probably waiving the right to OT in those cases. I doubt any employer is going to agree to regular 1.5x pay. But yeah, if you pick up extra hours/shifts, hours 9-12 will be paid 1.5x and everything after 12 hrs is at 2x pay.

So I think you are right about the 12 hours shifts... California might have some different labor laws than where I am, and 12 hour shifts may be off the table. Then again, there could be other angles at play, namely it might be cheaper to pay someone overtime than hire a new employee. It also might give some flexibility to the employer.

I do know a nurse that relocated to my state from California. This nurse was making over $150k per year, just working the floor. Not a ton of experience, but not brand new either.

I’ve heard that PAs can do well in many of the more rural locales in California, but I also am reading horror stories about wages and difficulty finding jobs for new PAs. I’m seeing some tightening of the job market for FNPs as well. The difference is that my FNP friends that are looking for jobs tend to have much less debt, and the security that comes from having a full time nursing job. NONE of my job seeking FNP friends are nervous. Most of them say the same thing...”I’m looking for the right job, not just any job.” A PA student I met that was rotating with a friend told me “I’m scared, and will take anything I can get. I’ll have $140,000 of debt after this is done”. By comparison, an FNP I know that just graduated in the summer took their time and landed a sweet job. They worked full time through school, went into debt for $40k, and their new employer in a dream job (for them) will pay off half their student loans. The sign on bonus will pay another $5k after taxes. They will pay off the rest from their checking account. They will make around what a PA will make doing the same thing.

The big issue as I see it is that PA school is so expensive. People get obsessed about getting into any program, and miss the big picture, which is that the field hasn’t gotten any more lucrative. It’s really hard to pay back tuition of $100,000 and over two years of lost income. I’ve heard all the stories of folks who land gigs with awesome pay, but in aggregate, I’m seeing that those kinds of opportunities are always what I hear about and rarely see. As a psyche NP, I do quite well. I also hear about the psyche NPs that are making money in unicorn jobs. Problem is that they involve a lot of extra time and effort. I could add $35,000 to my bottom line by picking up some extra work, but it would complicate my life far more than it’s worth. Unfortunately I hear folks saying that PA school costs are worth it if you bite the bullet and out your nose to the grindstone for a few years after finishing school. As far as I’m concerned, new PAs have already put their nose to the grindstone for 2 years. 5 more years of that is a tough sell. The first couple years out of school, you aren’t as valuable as you are later on, either, so the outlay is more inefficient overall.

So I’m a bit more sour on how the PA school gold rush is playing out. The gold seems to be going to the PA programs and the employers who are trying to lowball PAs and NPs. I had the choice of whether to go PA or NP, and I never look back and wish I had done PA school. Mostly, it comes down to the overall numbers, mixed with lifestyle issues.

 

[prozone]

The big issue as I see it is that PA school is so expensive. People get obsessed about getting into any program, and miss the big picture, which is that the field hasn’t gotten any more lucrative. It’s really hard to pay back tuition of $100,000 and over two years of lost income. I’ve heard all the stories of folks who land gigs with awesome pay, but in aggregate, I’m seeing that those kinds of opportunities are always what I hear about and rarely see. As a psyche NP, I do quite well. I also hear about the psyche NPs that are making money in unicorn jobs. Problem is that they involve a lot of extra time and effort. I could add $35,000 to my bottom line by picking up some extra work, but it would complicate my life far more than it’s worth. Unfortunately I hear folks saying that PA school costs are worth it if you bite the bullet and out your nose to the grindstone for a few years after finishing school. As far as I’m concerned, new PAs have already put their nose to the grindstone for 2 years. 5 more years of that is a tough sell. The first couple years out of school, you aren’t as valuable as you are later on, either, so the outlay is more inefficient overall.

So I’m a bit more sour on how the PA school gold rush is playing out. The gold seems to be going to the PA programs and the employers who are trying to lowball PAs and NPs. I had the choice of whether to go PA or NP, and I never look back and wish I had done PA school. Mostly, it comes down to the overall numbers, mixed with lifestyle issues.

Yeah, the more I'm looking into PA school, the more financially unfeasible it seems. I have enough $$$ saved up to take the sting out of the tuition costs but 2 years of lost wages is a lot to swallow. By the time I have the prereqs and direct patient care hours to be a competitive applicant, I'll be making mid 60s/hr at my current job before factoring in shift differentials and overtime. That's a lot of change to leave on the table unless I'm making significantly more out of PA school. Having to negotiate a good salary as a fresh grad doesn't seem like a fun time lol.

And I'm definitely wary about not having as many job opportunities to choose from. In the hospital system I'm currently employed with, there are as many NP/PA dual openings (where they'll apparently hire either or) as sole PA listings. A bunch of NP openings by comparison. But 3 years of (full time?) additional schooling is a lot and I might need more prereqs for nursing to boot.

 

[pamac]

Yeah, the more I'm looking into PA school, the more financially unfeasible it seems. I have enough $$$ saved up to take the sting out of the tuition costs but 2 years of lost wages is a lot to swallow. By the time I have the prereqs and direct patient care hours to be a competitive applicant, I'll be making mid 60s/hr at my current job before factoring in shift differentials and overtime. That's a lot of change to leave on the table unless I'm making significantly more out of PA school. Having to negotiate a good salary as a fresh grad doesn't seem like a fun time lol.

And I'm definitely wary about not having as many job opportunities to choose from. In the hospital system I'm currently employed with, there are as many NP/PA dual openings (where they'll apparently hire either or) as sole PA listings. A bunch of NP openings by comparison. But 3 years of (full time?) additional schooling is a lot and I might need more prereqs for nursing to boot.

Geesh, mid 60s an hour. When I started as a med tech over a decade ago, I made around $20 hr. It went up fairly quickly from there, but I don’t think I broke $30 before I became a nurse. But my state has traditionally been considered a low cost of living state. California is a world apart from most of the rest of the country as far as that goes. I think of high cost of living cities in other states, but California seems to be a high cost of living state.

I think California is also a place where being an NP doesn’t guarantee you an astronomical increase in pay like it does other places. Instead, it affords maybe a better lifestyle of sorts (although even that can be debated). So, the nurse I know from So Cal made $150 at the end of their time there, but that’s working 8 hour shifts (which can be hell if you are doing that 5 days a week on a crappy shift) and was subject to all the union seniority rules, scheduling quirks, traffic, etc. As an NP, that nurse would probably have only a nominally improved pay rate, but be subject to better working conditions, and have the work lifestyle of a provider, which I can attest is much better than being a floor nurse. The lifestyle improvement alone would have lured me to being a psyche NP by itself, but then I discovered I was truly being paid double what I made as a floor nurse, and it was a great jump. So that’s something to consider.

If you decide to make the jump to being a provider/prescriber, you should expect your life to be upended for a few years. My suggestion would be to find a year long accelerated BSN, take the time off to complete it (most programs would be hard to work during that year), and then start work as an RN while going to NP school. You’ll be busy, but life will be livable. You’ll have money coming in, and you’ll be immersed in a lot of the material. It will go quick, and you’ll still have time for the important things. You’ll cut out the fat in your routine, and become more efficient. At the end, you’ll have a lot of laterality in your job, and not be breaking your body. ABSN prereqs aren’t really that bad. Many schools have just a handful.

I honestly would really have been a basket case if I had stayed in the lab realm. I’d have always felt it wasn’t where I wanted to be. If you want to prescribe, then nothing else will do, and you’ll always crave that role. The lab was a fun place, but it wasn’t fulfilling for me. My big worry was somehow getting stuck there. It’s a completely respectable line of work, but I spent my whole life expecting to be in a job that was a front and center career with a lot of latitude.