San Diego Job Market

[lakersbaby]

Anyone looking for jobs down there? I'm hearing a near crisis on the horizon down in america's finest city. Apparently the big group is bleeding folks and kaiser is desperate for people as well. The cost of living increase was just way too rapid there i guess. I'm considering looking as the rest of so. cal is just as bad with the housing costs.

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[GaseousClay]

I heard the same. No one from out of state is applying because they can’t afford to live there

 

[Dawkter]

California is do-able if you are single or a young couple without kids.

When you start adding a family into the mix and all that comes with it, the COL adds up rapidly and physicians without heavy ties to the area inevitably find a cheaper place to go to.

 

[nimbus]

California is do-able if you are single or a young couple without kids.

When you start adding a family into the mix and all that comes with it, the COL adds up rapidly and physicians without heavy ties to the area inevitably find a cheaper place to go to.

Also doable if you are in your 50s and already have a nest egg, or already have a 2nd home here, or are moving from an even higher COL (NYC, Bay Area) area. If you are young and just starting out with kids and a stay at home spouse, it is admittedly very difficult. Even as recently as 3 years ago it was MUCH more affordable. There are many doctors who are in homes they couldn’t afford now if they hadn’t bought them years ago.

 

[nimbus]

I heard the same. No one from out of state is applying because they can’t afford to live there

We get more and more older folks from the Midwest who are tired of the winters and fewer new grads. Definitely a change in demographics of the new hires. Median age of new hires has significantly increased, lots of new hires with gray hair

 

[GassYous]

I think it's better to just visit than to live there

 

[agammaglobulin]

What is the compensation structure at these places in SD that are having problems hiring? Sign on bonus?

edit: Interesting that the new hires are older. Isn't this the PP group that has you drive all over SD area the first year auditioning at different places and then you "apply" for an opening at the end of the year? Seems terribly inconvenient for someone with kids/family. Perhaps it's time to change their structure if they are having problems hiring.

 

[nimbus]

I think it's better to just visit than to live there

Having lived in the Central Valley for 1 year and the desert for 3 years, it’s better to live here

 

[nimbus]

What is the compensation structure at these places in SD that are having problems hiring? Sign on bonus?

edit: Interesting that the new hires are older. Isn't this the PP group that has you drive all over SD area the first year auditioning at different places and then you "apply" for an opening at the end of the year? Seems terribly inconvenient for someone with kids/family. Perhaps it's time to change their structure if they are having problems hiring.

Not having problems hiring. We hire over 20/yr. Yes, drive all over town for 9-12months unless you’re peds. Rotation goes both ways. Since most every site needs people, new hires have been getting whatever they want. No sign on but get paid the same whether you’ve been here for 3mos or 30 yrs, 100% production.

We get people who’ve been around the block because they can see that it’s fair and it’s a good place to live.

 

[narcotics999]

Not having problems hiring. We hire over 20/yr. Yes, drive all over town for 9-12months unless you’re peds. Rotation goes both ways. Since most every site needs people, new hires have been getting whatever they want. No sign on but get paid the same whether you’ve been here for 3mos or 30 yrs, 100% production.

How big is the group? Need to hire 20/year? That is a big turnover (oh, possible expansion).

North San Diego (Camel Valley?) house price doubled in the past three years. Crazy.

 

[thinkorswim]

How big is the group? Need to hire 20/year? That is a big turnover (oh, possible expansion).

North San Diego (Camel Valley?) house price doubled in the past three years. Crazy.

The group is almost 300 anesthesiologists, with a lot of older ones coming up on mandatory retirement age in addition to expansion.

 

[GaseousClay]

How big is the group? Need to hire 20/year? That is a big turnover (oh, possible expansion).

North San Diego (Camel Valley?) house price doubled in the past three years. Crazy.

Its a huge group like 230 docs, i heard they just left a hospital because they are losing too many folks and need to staff the other hospitals. Not to mention lots jumping ship to kaiser. My friend says there are like 20 applicants from there. Now is the time to apply there if you desire San Diego. Nimbus may know better if i'm wrong then ill delete this.

 

[narcotics999]

Its a huge group like 230 docs, i heard they just left a hospital because they are losing too many folks and need to staff the other hospitals. Not to mention lots jumping ship to kaiser. My friend says there are like 20 applicants from there. Now is the time to apply there if you desire San Diego. Nimbus may know better if i'm wrong then ill delete this.

Don't want to pay 2M for a house there. I am getting out of California. I may come back when the housing market collapses, lol

Suck that I have to pay 900+ bucks biannually to maintain the license.

 

[nimbus]

Its a huge group like 230 docs, i heard they just left a hospital because they are losing too many folks and need to staff the other hospitals. Not to mention lots jumping ship to kaiser. My friend says there are like 20 applicants from there. Now is the time to apply there if you desire San Diego. Nimbus may know better if i'm wrong then ill delete this.

Definitely a good time to apply.

I understand the attraction of Kaiser. There, if you are scheduled to work until 3, you can reasonably expect to go home at 3. We are MD only so if things are busy as they have been lately and the OR has enough staff, we can run 5-7 rooms into the evening. Each of those rooms are staffed by an anesthesiologist. For me, I like to do my own cases so I don’t mind unexpectedly working into the evening once in a while and generating more units.

 

[USCTrojan11]

Definitely a good time to apply.

I understand the attraction of Kaiser. There, if you are scheduled to work until 3, you can reasonably expect to go home at 3. We are MD only so if things are busy as they have been lately and the OR has enough staff, we can run 5-7 rooms into the evening. Each of those rooms are staffed by an anesthesiologist. For me, I like to do my own cases so I don’t mind unexpectedly working into the evening once in a while and generating more units.

Are units earned working late paid as a premium? Or are stipends offered? Would certainly help with the being asked to stay late part

 

[nimbus]

Are units earned working late paid as a premium? Or are stipends offered? Would certainly help with the being asked to stay late part

No premium. We have a call number assigned every day…1-17. The numbers are evenly distributed and people swap numbers all the time according to their needs and priorities.

If you are #7 and there are still 7 rooms running in the evening, then you are there. We peel off as the rooms shut down. Nobody asks you to stay, everybody knows the drill. When it’s slow, I’ve gone home as early as 3pm as 3rd call. Other times I’ve worked until 8-9pm as 8th call. Both are rare. I also get at least 1weekday/week when I only work until 10-11 am and have the rest of the day off or have an unexpected day completely off (which feels like playing hooky). That’s the beauty/curse of MD only anesthesia, end times are unpredictable. It either works for you or it doesn’t. If not, Kaiser and the university offer a more predictable lifestyle and are hiring too. And lots of surgicenters are begging for anesthesia coverage.

During much of the pandemic, the hospital was understaffed and we could only run 2-3 rooms into the evening. Cases were stacked late into the night. That made for some long nights for the call folks but everyone else always went home early. Nowadays the hospital is much better staffed.

There are call stipends for 1st and 2nd call at my site but each site is different.

 

[gasresident1]

Man I hope you guys have a handsome stipend and make 70+% salary. This is what 2.5 million gets you in san diego...

2228 Guy St, San Diego, CA 92103 | realtor.com®

See photos and price history of this 4 bed, 4 bath, 2,370 Sq. Ft. recently sold home located at 2228 Guy St, San Diego, CA 92103 that was sold on 07/15/2022 for $2425000.

www.realtor.com

Obviously impossible for new graduates to start their lives there unless

1) married to a trust fund baby
2) are a trust fund baby
3) married to a spine surgeon (neuro preferred but either way never seeing them for dinner anyway)

 

[nimbus]

Man I hope you guys have a handsome stipend and make 70+% salary. This is what 2.5 million gets you in san diego...

2228 Guy St, San Diego, CA 92103 | realtor.com®

See photos and price history of this 4 bed, 4 bath, 2,370 Sq. Ft. recently sold home located at 2228 Guy St, San Diego, CA 92103 that was sold on 07/15/2022 for $2425000.

www.realtor.com

Obviously impossible for new graduates to start their lives there unless

1) married to a trust fund baby
2) are a trust fund baby
3) married to a spine surgeon (neuro preferred but either way never seeing them for dinner anyway)

That’s a very nice centrally located premium neighborhood. Most new grads don’t live there. Median SFH in the county is still around $800k. You can still get a nice house in a good neighborhood for much less than $2.5mil.

 

[OptionOffense]

Not having problems hiring. We hire over 20/yr. Yes, drive all over town for 9-12months unless you’re peds. Rotation goes both ways. Since most every site needs people, new hires have been getting whatever they want. No sign on but get paid the same whether you’ve been here for 3mos or 30 yrs, 100% production.

We get people who’ve been around the block because they can see that it’s fair and it’s a good place to live.

you work for asmg? how long have you been there?

 

[DoctwoB]

Man I hope you guys have a handsome stipend and make 70+% salary. This is what 2.5 million gets you in san diego...

2228 Guy St, San Diego, CA 92103 | realtor.com®

See photos and price history of this 4 bed, 4 bath, 2,370 Sq. Ft. recently sold home located at 2228 Guy St, San Diego, CA 92103 that was sold on 07/15/2022 for $2425000.

www.realtor.com

Obviously impossible for new graduates to start their lives there unless

1) married to a trust fund baby
2) are a trust fund baby
3) married to a spine surgeon (neuro preferred but either way never seeing them for dinner anyway)

Don’t know about that. Say you’re married to an accountant with combined take home or 600k. Save 100k pretax. Take home 350k. PITI on that house is 11-12k. So spend 144 k on housing. Live on 200k after already saving 100k.

Obviously there is lower QOL in other ways. You’re living on 1/8 or maybe 1/4 acre and not 2 acres. Less money for cars, travel, etc.

But you can comfortably be outside 355 days/year. That and a Honda makes me happier then a Ferrari in the garage I can drive 30 days/year and a huge lot to maintain. To each their own. Plus a lot of folks earning potential depends on being in such a place if you have a spouse in tech, finance, etc

 

[IlDestriero]

The San Diego real estate market went crazy. It’s been a bubble before and it’s popped before as well. I expect it will again. I don’t see how it can be sustained. I’m not surprised americas finest city is having problems hiring.

 

[nimbus]

The San Diego real estate market went crazy. It’s been a bubble before and it’s popped before as well. I expect it will again. I don’t see how it can be sustained. I’m not surprised americas finest city is having problems hiring.

It’ll pop for 2-3 years, then go up again. The first home we bought in 1998, a 1200sf 3br/2ba SFH that we turned into a rental has had its ups and downs. But over the years it has 7x’d. There’s a land shortage for anything that is a reasonable commute. There is also talk of building high rises in low rise neighborhoods. And there are infill projects where folks are building 4 stories up on very small footprint lots. Makes for a lot of stairs. You get a workout just to get to bed.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Don’t know about that. Say you’re married to an accountant with combined take home or 600k. Save 100k pretax. Take home 350k. PITI on that house is 11-12k. So spend 144 k on housing. Live on 200k after already saving 100k.

Obviously there is lower QOL in other ways. You’re living on 1/8 or maybe 1/4 acre and not 2 acres. Less money for cars, travel, etc.

But you can comfortably be outside 355 days/year. That and a Honda makes me happier then a Ferrari in the garage I can drive 30 days/year and a huge lot to maintain. To each their own. Plus a lot of folks earning potential depends on being in such a place if you have a spouse in tech, finance, etc

I think it depends on what a person's career and family goals are. I think it is also different if the families of you or the spouse are all mostly in California and you are close knit.

For everyone else : do they plan to work till 60 or close to it then sure go live in Cali and the above scenario would work fine I guess even with a few kids but not everyone couple will hit 600k esp when kids come and mom stays home etc. But if you sell it in 10-15 years and move to Florida you should be able to get a nice return.

An extra 100k saved every 10 years even in something conservative like index funds is 1.5 million. Living expenses in a state like TX/FL would lower your 200k closer to 100k. PITI on a house that is 50% bigger in states like florida/texas would net you another 100k.

The opportunity cost is essentially 3m every 10 years for living in California for that 600k salary. I'd rather live elsewhere where you get sun, tax free, and maybe build up a FIRE nest egg first before considering such a move but I am also hoping to be out of the rat race in the mid/late 40s

 

[nimbus]

Don’t know about that. Say you’re married to an accountant with combined take home or 600k. Save 100k pretax. Take home 350k. PITI on that house is 11-12k. So spend 144 k on housing. Live on 200k after already saving 100k.

Obviously there is lower QOL in other ways. You’re living on 1/8 or maybe 1/4 acre and not 2 acres. Less money for cars, travel, etc.

But you can comfortably be outside 355 days/year. That and a Honda makes me happier then a Ferrari in the garage I can drive 30 days/year and a huge lot to maintain. To each their own. Plus a lot of folks earning potential depends on being in such a place if you have a spouse in tech, finance, etc

Disagree. 11-12k PITI on a 600k income is too much. Don’t buy a $2.5mil house at current interest rates if your income is $600k. The market could keep rising in which case it’ll pay off. But meanwhile you’ll be under more financial stress. It’s a gamble.

 

[DoctwoB]

All true, but neglecting the investment in the home. If it appreciates at 3%(And traditionally CA return is closer to 6-7%) and you put 20% down you’re getting a net return on investment of 15% plus cost of rent minus property taxes. (And traditionally CA return is closer to 6-7%). So on average the CA doc who buys does very well.

However there is extra risk involved being levered into a single asset that the doc in Florida doesn’t have to take. So not a free lunch, but the average return is excellent.

 

[nimbus]

All true, but neglecting the investment in the home. If it appreciates at 3%(And traditionally CA return is closer to 6-7%) and you put 20% down you’re getting a net return on investment of 15% plus cost of rent minus property taxes. (And traditionally CA return is closer to 6-7%). So on average the CA doc who buys does very well.

However there is extra risk involved being levered into a single asset that the doc in Florida doesn’t have to take. So not a free lunch, but the average return is excellent.

Historically you are correct. So I change my mind and encourage everyone to go for it!

 

[narcotics999]

Historically you are correct. So I change my mind and encourage everyone to go for it!

Real estate has been good in the past 10-15 years in CA. But I am not quite sure how much gas is left. 1million to 2million may be bearable with good incomes. But 2 million to 3, 4 million, I don't know.

Tech is both a blessing and a curse to California. True, it brings a lot of wealth to the State. On the other hand, it drives away people with the lower-middle incomes who are also essential to the society.

Public education in California is deteriorating fast. Funding per pupil for K12 is around 8K in CA, while funding in Long island New York is around 23-30K, thanks to the Prop 13 and the way state distributes the education fund. My son is in a very school district but the buildings are worse than refugee camps.

 

[nimbus]

Real estate has been good in the past 10-15 years in CA. But I am not quite sure how much gas is left. 1million to 2million may be bearable with good incomes. But 2 million to 3, 4 million, I don't know.

Tech is both a blessing and a curse to California. True, it brings a lot of wealth to the State. On the other hand, it drives away people with the lower-middle incomes who are also essential to the society.

Public education in California is deteriorating fast. Funding per pupil for K12 is around 8K in CA, while funding in Long island New York is around 23-30K, thanks to the Prop 13 and the way state distributes the education fund. My son is in a very school district but the buildings are worse than refugee camps.

RE has been good in Ca for 50+ yrs. My dad and his friend each bought homes for about $65k in the mid 1970s. My dad bought in a Cleveland suburb and his friend in Orange County. My dad’s house has 4x’d while his friend’s house has 30x’d.


Schools are more than fine. My daughter attended public high school in an area that has a 2nd tier school district. The smart kids are competitive with kids from every other part of the country.

I do agree with you that affordability is a problem. Unless you inherit a family house or live with extended family, it’ll be very hard for lower and middle income people to stay.

 

[GassYous]

I think it depends on what a person's career and family goals are. I think it is also different if the families of you or the spouse are all mostly in California and you are close knit.

For everyone else : do they plan to work till 60 or close to it then sure go live in Cali and the above scenario would work fine I guess even with a few kids but not everyone couple will hit 600k esp when kids come and mom stays home etc. But if you sell it in 10-15 years and move to Florida you should be able to get a nice return.

An extra 100k saved every 10 years even in something conservative like index funds is 1.5 million. Living expenses in a state like TX/FL would lower your 200k closer to 100k. PITI on a house that is 50% bigger in states like florida/texas would net you another 100k.

The opportunity cost is essentially 3m every 10 years for living in California for that 600k salary. I'd rather live elsewhere where you get sun, tax free, and maybe build up a FIRE nest egg first before considering such a move but I am also hoping to be out of the rat race in the mid/late 40s

I feel this but also you have to take into account the fact that you can do things when you're young. Not so much when you get older. I'd rather take my trips, do the fun stuff now before I can't do em anymore.

If you check the news, plenty of tech people are now either losing their job offers or losing their jobs. We will see how many more can handle those 1500/month tesla payments and 5000/month million dollar homes when they don't have that income coming in.

 

[<(^_^)>]

Prop 13 doesn't realistically mean there isn't funding via property taxes. I just googled and seems like there's a few different ways of counting it, but generally ends up around the middle of the country $ wise. What prop 13 does mean is that people that bought in 1970 (or inherited a property from 1970) are paying 3k in property tax on a 3-5M dollar home, as the property tax can only go up 2% a year from original price paid. So new people pay more, and people that never moved pay a lot less. The impact was reduced after many years of low inflation (+ natural churn in real estate market), but that may change if inflation continues like this. Either way the funding is there, it's just mostly paid by people that moved in the last 10 years.

Either way I think while the basics of the argument are unchanged "it's expensive in California" "it's worth it for the weather!", the cost of housing and interest rates have indeed gone up a LOT, while incomes most certainly have not. Not only do you have the ~40% increase over the past 2 years, but interest rates have almost doubled as well. In practice that means the cost of owning a nice house in California has gone up ~60%. Maybe the bubble will pop, but it just seems to be ever richer people moving in, and people that locked in a 3% or less rate don't seem eager to sell. Most of them buying in nicer areas do not work at all (retired or independently wealthy/sold a business). Or they are in tech where they made doctor salaries at 22 without 300k of medical school debt.

All this to say the idea of raising families in coastal California increasingly seems like a single family home with a yard in New York City. If you move an hour inland yes things are more affordable...but do people really think "Covina" or "Temecula" (both near 100 today) when they think of Southern California?

 

[finalpsychyear]

I feel this but also you have to take into account the fact that you can do things when you're young. Not so much when you get older. I'd rather take my trips, do the fun stuff now before I can't do em anymore.

If you check the news, plenty of tech people are now either losing their job offers or losing their jobs. We will see how many more can handle those 1500/month tesla payments and 5000/month million dollar homes when they don't have that income coming in.

Feel you on the whole do things when you are young but maybe the majority of docs aren't doing so great in that regard as they approach their 50s so for them it does matter to do that as early as possible. I think if you prioritize your health and fitness you can push the envelope well into your 50s and beyond.

Also, part of my entire reason to FIRE and get out of the game by mid 40s is to conclude the "work for money" stage in my life so i can truly take my health, fitness, and mind to the next level... explore and maybe live the monk life for a period of time, read a lifetime of literature, and gain of level of perspective only attainable when you prioritize the simple life at its most basic levels. The world has so much to offer but the rat race makes us clouded in what ultimately may be the least significant.

 

[Dawkter]

Don't want to pay 2M for a house there. I am getting out of California. I may come back when the housing market collapses, lol

Suck that I have to pay 900+ bucks biannually to maintain the license.

I believe there is a way to pay a much lower fee and keep your license active as long as you are not managing patients in the state of CA.

 

[Dr. Rude]

Feel you on the whole do things when you are young but maybe the majority of docs aren't doing so great in that regard as they approach their 50s so for them it does matter to do that as early as possible. I think if you prioritize your health and fitness you can push the envelope well into your 50s and beyond.

Also, part of my entire reason to FIRE and get out of the game by mid 40s is to conclude the "work for money" stage in my life so i can truly take my health, fitness, and mind to the next level... explore and maybe live the monk life for a period of time, read a lifetime of literature, and gain of level of perspective only attainable when you prioritize the simple life at its most basic levels. The world has so much to offer but the rat race makes us clouded in what ultimately may be the least significant.

I took early retirement and fill my life with screen time, napping, playing with the dogs, exercising. Also cooking and drinking too much.

Totally fulfilled.

 

[GassYous]

I took early retirement and fill my life with screen time, napping, playing with the dogs, exercising. Also cooking and drinking too much.

Totally fulfilled.

That's my life now except I travel to the hospital everday

 

[OptionOffense]

I took early retirement and fill my life with screen time, napping, playing with the dogs, exercising. Also cooking and drinking too much.

Totally fulfilled.

how old r you

 

[OptionOffense]

That's my life now except I travel to the hospital everday

The hospitals are basically a penitentiary for doctors now.

 

[Twiggidy]

Real estate has been good in the past 10-15 years in CA. But I am not quite sure how much gas is left. 1million to 2million may be bearable with good incomes. But 2 million to 3, 4 million, I don't know.

Tech is both a blessing and a curse to California. True, it brings a lot of wealth to the State. On the other hand, it drives away people with the lower-middle incomes who are also essential to the society.

Public education in California is deteriorating fast. Funding per pupil for K12 is around 8K in CA, while funding in Long island New York is around 23-30K, thanks to the Prop 13 and the way state distributes the education fund. My son is in a very school district but the buildings are worse than refugee camps.

All of this comment. It’s wild because I know several colleagues that live in very expensive areas which is supposed to equate to good schools, yet, they still send them to private schools. What’s that tell you?

I’m struggling with my decision to stay and while I may have coworkers and potential coworkers who think it’s simply about the job, it’s not. Even for physicians it can be difficult to raise a family here and that’s sad. Conversely there are a lot of good things about California that make it a hard place to leave both socially and politically (depending on how you roll)

 

[DrOwnage]

San Diego guy here. If you have loans, want to start a family, and buy a house, I think its doable but hard. If your spouse has a decent income then yes its still viable. However, I don't see things getting easier or better. I was born and raised here, been practicing here for 2 years post training with lots of loans. I haven't bought a house yet and missed the mark which is the main reason I'm pretty open to moving at this point. I see how it is hard to convince new grads to come here who don't have that nest egg.

 

[OptionOffense]

. I see how it is hard to convince new grads to come here who don't have that nest egg.

Hard to recruit for San Diego? Ive seen it all.

 

[GassYous]

Hard to recruit for San Diego? Ive seen it all.

When a starter home costs 2 mil...

 

[gasresident1]

20% downpayment on a 2.5 million dollar starter home is $500k...not like new grads are gonna be able to save up for that for 4+ years regardless lol

 

[Twiggidy]

20% downpayment on a 2.5 million dollar starter home is $500k...not like new grads are gonna be able to save up for that for 4+ years regardless lol

Some banks offer physician loans with 10% or even 5% down but then you’re talking about a bigger monthly mortgage and possibly PMI added on

Physician jobs and lack of increase in reimbursement just can’t compete with tech and VC money just getting thrown around. And it’s not just CA, look at the markets in places like Austin and DC/N. VA ….

 

[nimbus]

When a starter home costs 2 mil...

Depends on your needs and desires. Median SFH is still around 800k which is significantly less than Bay Area or Orange County.

 

[GaseousClay]

Depends on your needs and desires. Median SFH is still around 800k which is significantly less than Bay Area or Orange County.

Give up any dream of living near the coast

 

[nimbus]

Give up any dream of living near the coast

You can get something near the coast with good weather for 1mil. No ocean or bay view though unless it’s a condo.

 

[Dr. Rude]

how old r you

60

 

[OptionOffense]

60

Thats not early retirement. Do you still work at all? or do you just scroll your phone like Chief Meadowsall day

 

[sevoflurane]

1/2 time in my late 40s
no weekends
I can ride this train for a while still

 

[sevoflurane]

San diego is nice. A lot of other places on the west coast with exceptional weather and not as expensive. 😎

 

[sevoflurane]

Give up any dream of living near the coast

Sacrifice 5 years of your life in a high paying/non-desirable location/low cost of living job.
Pick up and move to your dream location at your leisure and sink in the roots.
A little sacrifice up front can help attain life goals IMO.