Salaries of md/mba's

[WinneDaFoo]

can somebody ball park what people with these degrees make when they begin consulting/banking/exec'ing after they become liscenced physicians?

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[Primate]

Consulting at one of the biggies (McK, BCG, Baine) start around 120-140 with a signing bonus ~20-30 (this varies sig. by year). The signing bonus will be your first end-of-year bonus unless you start early in year (before March-ish). The numbers go up fairly quickly from there. Not sure of "second tier" rates.

btw, matters not if you're a newly minted MD or have a ton of clinical experience, you start at the same pay grade... and at the same pay grade as a newly minted MBA, with the same upwards prospects.

i-banking - more. Don't know exactly how much, but a buddy who just finished MD/MBA said all in for 1st year at top tier more like the low to mid 200's, with sig upside if you survive.

As for "exec-ing," that will depend entirely on experience. If you've never worked in business before, it will be difficult to walk from MD/MBA, with or without residency, into a well compensated executive position (as a rule - of course there are exceptions, but they are few - these are typically within the health care industry and are ones that actually will take advantage of something specific you might have learned in clinical medicine - eg director of translational medicine in pharma, insurance company post, etc.).

If you really just want business and $$, go for the MBA. It'll be quicker and cheaper, with at least as good an upside in "business." If you want to be in business with health care twist, then you have MANY ways to forge a path, they just might not all start at the top.

Good luck,
P

 

[WinneDaFoo]

clears things up somewhat. i always thought that mdmbas would start as VP's at banks, or at least higher up in the food chain. haha. good to know. def interested in it,

its just 1 extra year at ucla anderson/geffen, so its kinda hard to decide what to do.

always wanted to be a doctor, always wanted to be a business man, stuck in btw. haha.

 

[Primate]

always wanted to be a doctor, always wanted to be a business man, stuck in btw. haha.

Me too!

Nothing to say you can't do both. Totally possible, just not that many people, compared to the number that do one or the other, want to (I think). I've been going back and forth, and currently am doing both, so it's possible.

If you want to do both, then do both. I get concerned when I hear that someone wants to be in business full time, but they're getting an MD. That's a low payout! Sounds like it's not you, though.

Do what you LIKE and the rest will follow (sounds hokey, but it's true).

Bon chance,
P

PS - you might want to triangulate those numbers. n=1 might not be accurate!

 

[WinneDaFoo]

what are you/where are you currently doing?

just curious.

 

[ari dubov]

Any one has any idea what one can do with a DDS/MBA degree

http://www.paramusdentist.com

 

[mshheaddoc]

Any one has any idea what one can do with a DDS/MBA degree

http://www.paramusdentist.com

That question has been throwing around in here but never much of an answer. I know temple has a joint program (well at least I think they do) but never really talked about. I'm sure that they have something in their scope of practice that they can work with as well. Like dental product sales etc. That is a great question though!

 

[IceMan0824]

clears things up somewhat. i always thought that mdmbas would start as VP's at banks, or at least higher up in the food chain. haha. good to know. def interested in it,

Haha, this is funny. So you believe that if you get the basic management skills as everyone else with a mba, but because you got an extra medical degree on the side that you are qualified to start at a VP at a bank.
Is the extra histology or pathology training going to give you the edge you need. Or is the patient contact during MS3 and 4 that sets you apart in the corporate world.
The only way I can see a huge leg giving to MD/MBA might be in Health management in a hospital (or hospice) like setting or Pharmauceticals or anything of that sort.

Also keep in mind, because you are hard-pressed for time (getting two degrees and everything), you will be missing out on the summer intership year due to USMLE studying (depends on your school). Therefore, not only will you not have that connection (very important in business) you can build during the summer that allows you to transfer from an intern to an assocaite in a company, but you actually lack the hard skills that the company requires. (Think why some people do away rotations.)

So, forgive me for my laughter, but that was funny, and I could not resist. Start at VP, why not just got for CEO and Chairman of the Board....

 

[IceMan0824]

Consulting at one of the biggies (McK, BCG, Baine) start around 120-140 with a signing bonus ~20-30 (this varies sig. by year). The signing bonus will be your first end-of-year bonus unless you start early in year (before March-ish). The numbers go up fairly quickly from there. Not sure of "second tier" rates.

btw, matters not if you're a newly minted MD or have a ton of clinical experience, you start at the same pay grade... and at the same pay grade as a newly minted MBA, with the same upwards prospects.

i-banking - more. Don't know exactly how much, but a buddy who just finished MD/MBA said all in for 1st year at top tier more like the low to mid 200's, with sig upside if you survive.

As for "exec-ing," that will depend entirely on experience. If you've never worked in business before, it will be difficult to walk from MD/MBA, with or without residency, into a well compensated executive position (as a rule - of course there are exceptions, but they are few - these are typically within the health care industry and are ones that actually will take advantage of something specific you might have learned in clinical medicine - eg director of translational medicine in pharma, insurance company post, etc.).

If you really just want business and $$, go for the MBA. It'll be quicker and cheaper, with at least as good an upside in "business." If you want to be in business with health care twist, then you have MANY ways to forge a path, they just might not all start at the top.

Good luck,
P

Ahh crap, someone beat me to it.
Darn

 

[koercive]

always wanted to be a doctor, always wanted to be a business man, stuck in btw. haha.

same I'm so stuck right now. I don't know if I should take PCATs/MCATs or pursue a career in business (MBA). I was thinking about doing both.

I am currently a 3rd yr undergrad

 

[Chaumiester]

Hi I will be attend ucla med next year and seriously considering their joint md/mba program. does anyone have any experience applying or any advice on how to prepare for it?

 

[RaistlinMajere]

I worked in the investment industry before going back to med school. It depends on the investment bank and your experience. I know of a vascular surgeon who started at the level of managing director which is well above VP and commands a starting salary in the $500K vicinity total comp. I also have seen newly minted MD/MBAs start at $100-200K.

Basically the golden rule on Wall Street or any business is whoever can control the cash flows by producing revenues gets paid more.

 

[StevenRF]

@Chaumiester

Im at UCLA right now on track for MD/MBA. Take you GMAT this summer before med school starts and get it out of the way. That's about the only real way to prepare. You won't need it till 3rd year.

 

[MSwinthrop]

I've seen a lot about investment banking with regards to MD/MBA. What advantage does having an MD confer to an investment banker? Actually why would anyone get their MD and then go into business if not to go into health management (honest question, not condescension).

 

[StevenRF]

The extra 0 or two at the end of the salary probably has something to do with it. My friend just got a peg job a year out of college, no mba... hello 250k. A few of the MD/MBA people I've talked to all follow the same mantra. After 4 years of med (+1 for MBA), getting crapped on, and looking at 5-7 years more of residency underpaid and getting crapped on some more on the horizon, they look at their business friends who are already pullin their future salary or more and have a potential ceiling much higher. Sure you'll still pull horrible 100+ hr weeks, but you will be well compensated for it.

I'm in a managed care internship right now and it's just pathetic how bad the system is. One of the guys on the board for the hospital straight up said "Why do you want to become a doctor? They are all getting screwed over." I want to resist for my genuine interest in medicine, but I think I'm going to help contribute to the brain drain.

 

[wallstdoc]

I really don't understand this investment banking kick on this board either. Most people (ESPECIALLY on here) have no idea what an investment banker even does, they just know they make lots of money. An MD (in general) will NOT HELP YOU as an investment banker. It might get your foot in the door, but its not going to help you. Consultant, analyst, yes, an MD will actually be useful. NOT IBanking. If all you guys on here want to be Ibankers, why didn't you just skip med school and go get an analyst job on Wall St.? By the time you are done med school you would already be making a couple of hundred.

 

[Miami_med]

Not to mention that the same skills that get people into medical school are often worthless in I-banking, and the majority of I-bankers don't actually make as much money as many physicians.

Average doctors outside of primary care still do relatively well, though there are no promises. If you are good at business, it is easier to do well in primary care. I know a number of primary care physicians making over $250k. I-banking doesn't usually promise more than that, though there are admittedly fewer years of blood initially. No more DREs is also a plus. The problem in medicine comes down to what goes into getting the money and the boneheaded forces of congress that try to control it.

 

[mward04]

here are links to the dds/mba programs I know of, let me know if you know of any other programs:
http://md-mba.org/otherdualmba.html

That question has been throwing around in here but never much of an answer. I know temple has a joint program (well at least I think they do) but never really talked about. I'm sure that they have something in their scope of practice that they can work with as well. Like dental product sales etc. That is a great question though!

Any one has any idea what one can do with a DDS/MBA degree

http://www.paramusdentist.com

 

[MSwinthrop]

I really don't understand this investment banking kick on this board either. Most people (ESPECIALLY on here) have no idea what an investment banker even does...

What DO Investment bankers do?

 

[Techmonkey]

Funnily enough I think medicine is a great degree for a career in the business world. Not in terms of the facts you learn but the skills you gain. Taking a history, differential diagnosis are skills that will serve you well in the strategic consulting profession. Critical analysis of medical literature is similar in some senses to reading company reports or investment literature. Not to mention the people skills you gain from handling colleagues and patients in less than optimal settings.

All you have to do is pick up a finance, business and maths knowledge. I'm still tempted by prospects of working in PE or hedge funds doing healthcare-related investment. Did my undergrad in engineering and did both finance and business minors. The medical degree allowed me to develop a different yet important set of skills that in retrospect I lacked when I was interviewing at McKinsey during my undergrad.

Should have applied to the Renaissance quant team instead

 

[StevenRF]

@MSWinthrop

There is this super cool program called Excel, and you get to basically spend 18 hours a day contemplating the intracacies of life on it.

Look for a blog called levereged sellout

 

[mward04]

it should be good training for business, but it's not. However, most people in the business world hate to work with drs because they tend to be arrogant, think they are better than everyone and expect others to do the work for them.

Mike

Funnily enough I think medicine is a great degree for a career in the business world. Not in terms of the facts you learn but the skills you gain. Taking a history, differential diagnosis are skills that will serve you well in the strategic consulting profession. Critical analysis of medical literature is similar in some senses to reading company reports or investment literature. Not to mention the people skills you gain from handling colleagues and patients in less than optimal settings.

All you have to do is pick up a finance, business and maths knowledge. I'm still tempted by prospects of working in PE or hedge funds doing healthcare-related investment. Did my undergrad in engineering and did both finance and business minors. The medical degree allowed me to develop a different yet important set of skills that in retrospect I lacked when I was interviewing at McKinsey during my undergrad.

Should have applied to the Renaissance quant team instead

 

[UNCHeel87]

What DO Investment bankers do?

I have being doing a lot of research in the Investment Banking world and one of the best websites that I found which explains the functions of I-bankers is:

http://www.job-employment-guide.com/investment-banker-salary.html

It also has some details about their salaries and bonuses as well

 

[Shredder]

What DO Investment bankers do?

Run a search on investment banking lifestyle. That's a pretty bad answer, I know. I can't comment on it firsthand but it's something I've been looking into recently. Thinking about ditching med school myself after just finishing my first year. I'm not fond of it and I dislike the vast majority of my peers. They don't think the same way and their values are diff. I feel like they all ride high horses--I thought it was a premed thing but it has continued. Too moralistic, it's annoying. It's one thing to be moral but another to be moralistic. Aside from that they're not as smart or driven as I want. Some are gunners but not always for money--for less tangible benefits like becoming chief of some department or working in a macho specialty.

Anyway ibankers seem to work on big deals with companies. They do mergers and acquisitions, financial restructurings and IPOs. These things are important and run the economy. At the low levels yes their seems to be a lot of grunt work and it's not glamorous. Lifestyle's grueling. But this is also true of medicine. In ibanking you get paid moderately high amounts faster. As for reaching the pay of highly paid private practicioners, that's no small feat and doesn't seem to happen often. You'll not often see people outside of medicine pulling in 500k+ or 1 million but a fair number of docs do accomplish this.

But yeah I'm personally considering ditching. I'm interested in big business, corporate america and entrepreneurship but maybe I'm naive. Might do leave of absence for this coming yr, looking into it. This is a good thread. Oh I too see very little value of an MD in business. I myself would frown upon it and the attitude they bring. They are book smart but frequently lacking street smarts and business savvy.

 

[avenirv]

nobody thinks on the TRUE american way: entrepreneurship !
even as an investment banker you will be an employee, i.e. somebody else will crap on you regularily. well paid but still taking orders.
but be american and start a business, be your master, show the world that you have guts, intelligence and ideas.
the rewards are true !

 

[Shredder]

I agree wholeheartedly but until you have a good plan and funding you still need to pay the bills. Stories of entrepreneurship focus on the victors but tend to neglect the manyfold more failures. Sometimes all the signs were pointing to success too but things just don't work out. It's interesting reading case studies of failed businesses, big ones even. Some have egregious errors but some are really subtle and easy to repeat.

I personally would also like to learn business principles via a business career track. I'm not picking those up in medicine, and I feel the ambience discourages thinking outside of medicine.